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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God (4362 Views)
How Atheists Feel On Nairaland; Part Two / See How Atheists Minds Are Imprisoned / How Atheists Feel On Nairaland (2) (3) (4)
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Kay17: 1:10pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
elobyobi: Possibly Christian morality because it is unconvincing to us. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by urheme: 2:22pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
elobyobi: Picture of the holy spirit or for ever remain silent.... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by elobyobi: 3:28pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
urheme:wow, you just proved what I said. The Holy Spirit IS the master of common Sense. Common sense would have told u that spirits can't be photographed.... |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by urheme: 4:21pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
elobyobi: Common sense is a sense that is common, if your holy spirit is common then every one will have it, Some christians believe holy spirit is Jesus and is God(trinity) show me the common sense here! The affairs of men can no longer be left in the realm of common sense, what made sense to you is actually senseless to me, morals are just mere ethical claimes that appeals to the conscience, they can only be observed by all if it carries sanction for a breach thereof, men's mind differ to the extent that some are very harden, we need positive laws to curb the excesses of men in the society, this is my own common sense and not holy spirit. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Nobody: 4:46pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
Atheists are dumb nooks... |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Nobody: 5:05pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
crixtex:then u re a holy scumberg 4 Likes |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Nobody: 5:33pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
krattoss:lol... are u an atheist too?? ve u received holy knock of God before.... ori e a kpe wa ni!! |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by LordReed(m): 6:10pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
johnydon22: If supposing you were born and brought up in an environment where cruelty was the "natural" way do you think you would have any empathy? |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by johnydon22(m): 7:12pm On Aug 02, 2015 |
LordReed:Psychology (the study of human behaviour) is a science, so before we can make any absolute statement on that we'll first have to carry out experimentations in order to observe and then tender our postulations based on real studied and observed facts. . . . So it is not ok for me to assume up either YES or NO. On a smaller scale; "YES". . giving an example with myself. I was born in a society where it is the norm for people to have the mindset that some people who don't believe as they do will burn in a literal fire forever, it was a normal mindset But i grew to disagree and find this idea very disturbing, barbaric and all round bad. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Joshthefirst(m): 2:57am On Aug 03, 2015 |
plaetton:Morality as in a conscious sense of right and wrong is innate. What you call Darwinian impulses don't nullify the innate grasp of right and wrong that we have, whether we are predisposed to go the selfish way or not. |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by malvisguy212: 10:39am On Aug 03, 2015 |
Kay17:Why do people generally think that some actions are “right” and some actions are “wrong,” regardless of their subjective opinions? Why do most people believe that it is “evil” or “wicked” (1) for an adult to torture an innocent child simply for the fun of it? (2) for a man to beat and rape a kind, innocent woman? or (3) for parents to have children for the sole purpose of abusing them sexually every day of their lives? Although objective morality may be outside the realm of the scientific method, every rational person can know that some actions are innately good, while others are innately evil. the man who says that it is morally acceptable to rape little children, is just as mistaken as the man who says that 2 + 2 = 5” Most rational people do not merely feel like rape and child abuse may be wrong; they are wrong innately wrong. Just as two plus two can really be known to be four, every rational human can know that some things are objectively good, while other things are objectively evil. However, reason demands that OBJECTIVE GOOD AND EVIL can only exist if there is some REAL, objective point of REFERENCE. If something (e.g., rape) can be legitimately criticized as morally wrong, then there must be an objective standard “some ‘higher law which transcends the provincial and transient’ which is other than the particular moral code and which has an obligatory character which can be recognized” |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Kay17: 9:34am On Nov 04, 2015 |
The act of murder itself and in the absence of intent and consequence, is good or bad? |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by bytemeister(m): 1:54pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Nobody: 2:01pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
Kay17: everything you have just spouted is based on your own personal opinion and strongly held beliefs as quoted above.. how can you expect your comments to be free of agenda-based arguments... it is expected and painfully smug to even read your opinionated views.. |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by Nobody: 2:03pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
@kay17 believes that you need God to tell you that killing children, women and whole families as sacrifice to please God is NOT RIGHT.. you had to wait for the whitemans God to realize that.. Chief!! pull yourself back into a more informed era please. |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by UyiIredia(m): 2:16pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
Idrismusty97: I used to believe that crap. Now I know better. Actually, many people in those countries are religious and peaceful AND it is a fact that USSR, Albania and China were deemed atheist states and had lots of strife. |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by UyiIredia(m): 2:18pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
johnydon22: There is something that makes you know it's bad. What is it? |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by johnydon22(m): 2:41pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
UyiIredia: Its called "EMPATHY" contrasting my own feelings in relation to an action to that of others... Your definition of a bad action may differ from mine because i only recognize actions with negative or positive effect to collective societal or individual well being promotes or is a detriment to justice, equality, freedom to be either good or bad. I wonder what "Thing" you are referring to here... lets hear it 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by UyiIredia(m): 2:49pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
johnydon22: Where do you get your empathy from? 1 Like |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by johnydon22(m): 3:10pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
UyiIredia: My empathy stems from my societal interactions in relation to others, maybe you should have read the post many times over ... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by UyiIredia(m): 3:20pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
johnydon22: Your empathy is an aspect of your consciousness and it is a fact that consciousness is from God. |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by johnydon22(m): 3:22pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
UyiIredia: Pheeeew i knew this was were it would land. . . . It is normal for one who think some God created everything to hold that line of thought... 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by BETATRON(m): 3:27pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
johnydon22:How did the universe come to be? If no one created it? Isn't it an acceptable fact that behind every work of art there is an artist?,behind every law there is a law maker,behind every invention there is an invention WHY oPPOSE tHE FACT THAT BEHIND EVERY CREATION THERE IS A CREATOR? |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by hahn(m): 3:32pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
UyiIredia: Which god? |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by BETATRON(m): 3:34pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
hahn:Chuckles..mind telling how you come into existence? |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by hahn(m): 3:35pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
BETATRON: Na so dem take dey answer question for your church? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by BETATRON(m): 3:46pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
hahn:What is the difference between six and half a dozen,you're trying to refute the simple truth of God existence and I only want to know why you stand firmly on the fact the there is such thing as God |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by hahn(m): 3:47pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
BETATRON: That still doesn't answer my question 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by johnydon22(m): 3:52pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
BETATRON: But that someone got to be without another creating it right? . . . The thing is not everything needs some kind of intelligent being to create, interactions of natural elements give rise to natural entities and with each resulting reaction leads to more and more reactions and actions. I cannot claim to know how the universe came to be, it is still a subject of scientific study till today and i'd maintain i don't know than assume up answers to fill that gap..
That is if you term supernovas work of art, tsunamis, blackholes. . . . The sand dunes in the deserts depict outstanding artistic beauty but does this mean it was done by some invisible artist in the desert? No, it was simply an action of wind on matter (dust) in the desert, that one doesn't know what causes sand dunes doesn't mean someone drew it...
When one asserts natural laws they tend to forget the fact that these are in no way judicial-like laws but rather observed ways of natural manifestations. When you assert a claim you should be able to substantiate with actual proofs not try to boycott unrelated natural entities to be works of your asserted creator-deity who remarkably needs no creator to exists. Nobody is opposing your creator hypothesis, i regard it hypothetical and personally i'd rather trust in observed facts and established truthful approximations by systematic deduction than rely on assumptions stemming from my ignorance of how thing came to be. It is known that Action of gravity on Matter (nebula) forms stars not some invisible deity shouting to himself.. I'd rather not fill up gaps left by ignorance with ancient superstition... 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by BETATRON(m): 4:42pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
johnydon22:"Nothing moved until something moved" meaning that for everything there is a prime mover and the prime for this magnificent creation is God..and as you know this prime mover must have no beginning and no ending.it takes an equal level of understanding to understand something.generally you can't expect a child to start solving quantum physics..God is infinite knowledge and it takes infinite knowledge to describe Him as you know we humans don't possess that infinite knowledge..and to describe something you do it relatively but God as no equal and that is why He cannot be described Good you already stated that you don't know how the universe came to be, since you have no complete knowledge about the universe why oppose the fact that there can't be a God the human is only being that fits exactly into a sphere and a circle..meaning he has both spiritual and physical nature..it is innate in this being that there exists a all powerful God somewhere if you claim all this things came into being by chance....then how is it possible that all this things take such a sophisticated nature that only elite scientist can't delve into their depth and bring out the beauty behind them? Isn't knowledge the result of knowledge and order? Also you dnt know what caused the sand dune and still refute the possibilities that something created it.did it just pop out of no where, Are humans the result of mere chance? Can unconsciousness be the result of consciousness My NETWORk iS PISSING ME OFF, so our discussion my not go well today ,some other time hopefully |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by johnydon22(m): 5:37pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
BETATRON:[b] For science it was gravitational singularity or quantum fluctuation, deductively one could conclude that this your claim of an intelligent God is just an anthropomorphical personification of this forces. "Nothing move until something Moved" this line of argument works more against your premise than for it. Because since Nothing can move unless Moved then the God you propose which in your argument should not be quantified as nothing cannot move unless moved. By asserting that God actually didn't need to be moved by something, haven't you failed in your own argument by showing something can actually move without being moved. The universe as we know is still a huge unsolved maths to us and we should focus on solving it rather than assuming up answers like anthropomorphical deities. For all we know it could be One out of countless other universes and it keeps getting bigger spanning the stretch of our imaginations, again this assumption of asserting an anthropomorphical deity does not answer the question in anyway... If by God one means Gravitational or any other proven force controlling natural interactions then such premises can be looked into but asserting an almost humanoid persona it slips down the drain of primitive assumption and personification. Something moved others, the question then is "what did?" Science proposes a gravitational singularity, you propose a deity. . . I'd rather trust an observed fact than invisible suppositions.. [/b] The MUST i bolded betrays a mind that wishes to substitute his supposition of how he THINKS it should be with what Might be. There is no place it is asserted something Must have no beginning in order to begin others. Going by this one can simply assert GRAVITY is an infinitely eternal value and in actuality many things we have observed about this universe revolves around gravity. When someone says THIS PRIME MOVER, it is ok for you to assert what you really take that prime mover to mean because it can be anything. But when you assert a human-like intelligent diety as the prime mover who has a golden mansion somewhere as the prime mover this brings down your depiction of the prim mover to a childish mundane figure stemming from supposition and child-like superstition in representing values.
Exactly and when a child starts claiming to possess knowledge in Quantum physics without empirical substantiation at the same time turns around to tell me "He as a child cannot comprehend quantum physics, it is outrageous to reason and it outrightly absurd.
This is exactly what i expected, you assert God is impossible to comprehend except with infinite knowledge same you turn around to assert God is infinite knowledge, how would you know if you can't even comprehend God? This is always the weak point in assumptions because it gives birth to more and more assumptions in order to make a support for the previous assumption..
-Yea same you would turn around and describe it to be infinite knowledge (which is a description itself) -In order cases employ the full tenets of anthropomorphism like Golden mansions -emotions -Likes to be worshipped. This whole concept betrays these claims to be nothing more than wishful thinking. . . If by God one means an eternal value of causality then i would maintain such a thing is a subject of study as i rightly asserted above. Placing this Value to mean an intelligent being somewhere only betrays an assumptive imaginative mind...
Accepting "You don't know" in a premise where knowledge is lacked is a beautiful form of intellectual humility and honesty. Unlike you i agree i don't know and there is open to knowing in a way of systematic and empirical substantiation and not assume up answers like "a deity did it" You fill the gap left by your ignorance with such assumptions and tend to dub it a universal truth, that i wouldn't take without proof. This form of argument is termed "argumentum ad ignorantum" "I don't know then this must have done it" It doesn't work that way bob, you can't just assume up any answer in a premise where you lack knowledge without empirical substantiation.. I do not negate your "God did it hypothesis" i only demand empirical substantiation of which is almost impossible and that is why it has to rely on the claim to add weight to it.
This is a blatant lie, it is not in anyway innate in man to propose the existence of a deity, such postulations arose from the unavailability of answers and the void created by such ignorance. Primitive men have been known to anthropomorphically represent almost everything, The God Neptune was once held responsible for storms at sea now nobody does that. That you are still clutching on this personification of natural laws is of your own making and not an innate human quality. For the spiritual side i wouldn't dabble into a premise i have absolutely no idea what you mean by it because spirituality means many things to many people in diverse cultures...
Still clutching on this "Argumntum ad ignorantum" I don't really know what you term CHANCE because to me natural interactions are diverse and natural manifestation has no one way of manifesting. One would want to know what you mean by Knowledge and order.. Because Knowledge as we know it is simply perception of what is. Order is not a natural universal order, in fact the universe has been observed and is still a chaotic rhyme of interactions. Supernovas beget White dwarves, Blackholes, collusion of galaxies make larger ones or collision of asteroid on a planetary body makes other debris and moons. Like i showed with the picture of a sand dune, order and artistic depiction of such phenomena does not in any way connote an invisible intelligent artist somewhere b simply remnants of a chaotic reaction (Wind on dust)...
Sand dunes are action of wind on dust not some invisible artist, You might have no argument to support your assertion of some humanoid deity speaking things into existence in contrast to observed elementary facts that natural interactions lead to more natural interactions and spans into a chain of mor actions and reactions. Hurricanes are works of the God neptune, am sure you think so too because hurricanes didn't just pop out of no where...
Last i checked even the anthropomorphic creator you assert still boils down to chance. As an intelligent being, it existed literally forever then suddenly decides to create everything... "Boredom" I would always maintain that you don't know how anything started simply means you don't, no need assuming up answers that only end up postponing the question instead of answering it..
Consciousness simply put is awareness (Perception)... A plant is plant is photoperceptive and so is aware of light. So far consciousness is as a result of interaction neuroperception in an entity. . . Maybe following your line of argument, for God who supposed to be conscious to exist then they should be another conscious source to create it. Or as usual you would still fail to uphold the argument of a MUST conscious casualty when it comes to this God? it is called special pleading.. If every consciousness must require another to exist then God would require another conscious source in order to possess consciousness..
Couldn't agree more my data is as good as spent... 1 Like 4 Shares |
Re: How Atheists Handle Morality In The Absence Of God by UyiIredia(m): 8:16pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
johnydon22: And abnormal otherwise ba? The people you get empathtvfrom where did they get their empathy? ' |
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