ChinenyeN:

hehe, did you just coin these?

I thought hard!

ezeagu:


I was thinking about how the word for court could be created with the affixing and compounding of 'kpé' and using tone to our advantage, as well as in the creation of other law terms.

ikpe; legal battle
nkpè; court
ukpè; judgement, judge v. [gọ ụkpè]
àkpè; legislation
èkpè; act, decree; acting [èkpùkpè]
òkpè; lawyer
ókpè; court room

compound
àzúikpè; verdict
ńjụíkpè, ọjụíkpè; objection
ọláíkpè; inconclusive
ọhàíkpè [ọhíkpè]; jury

and so on, I haven't even gone into íwú and I've made, presumably, ten legal terms. From one verb. 10. Now imagine what could be done with the thousands of verbs using this simple affixing, and in that case understandable, style that's been used to create most Igbo words already.

I especially like Ohaikpe. Njuikpe could mean Appeal

Adding to kpe-derived words, there is nkpe, which we use in Ngwa to reference the traditional clan charter/constitution. We clearly don't need to look too far to build vocabulary. The foundation exists. Whether or not it mirrors other languages is of no consequence.

Scholti, there is a reason for terminology. It is so we can be on the same page. If you've got one thought in mind and you use a word that elicits a different thought in my mind, then we achieve nothing other than confusion. That's simply the reason why I want us to be on the same page with terminology. With regard to high-level discourse, you can't just talk about being above technicalities. Also, there actually does exist a plural marker in Ngwa and many other lects. It just isn't an affix, but rather a demonstrative. It achieves the same purpose as \-s\, just not in the same way (again, no need to think in English). Finally, I'd like to understand what you mean by bi being burdened. Would you mind explaining?

Phut:
Hey guys, I bought a couple of dictionaries off Amazon and by comparing and from them, I was able to compile the attached dictionary. What do you guys think of the work, so far?

I want to make it an online, searchable dictionary with audio pronounciation for all the entries. I only attached the A entries but it is currently 525 pages long. I will add Biribiriga - Rainstorm as well as Iga - Fortress, akpede-crossbow and Agwa - Island. Can any of you make any recommendation(s) as to whom to hire for the development of the site?

cc: ChinenyeN
Ezeagu
Cheruv
Scholti
Radoillo
Melzabull

Hey, Phut. Good work! Compiling anything is such a tiring monotonous task, I know. Unfortunately, I know no Igbo grammarian, but can I make a few observations based on what I've seen of the work so far?

1. Abrupt: I don't think this word is exactly synonymous with 'quick'. Dictionaries explain it as 'sudden/ending or changing unexpectedly/lacking continuity'. My dialect has a word that fits perfectly, and it isn't 'osiso' (quick). It is ibide. Perhaps, similar/same word exists in the other dialects.

2. Also, I feel that speakers will be reluctant to use a translation if it consists of a (relatively) long string of words, eg onodu enweghi olile anya for abject. I think this has always been a problem for translators (and perhaps one of the reasons you need to engage a grammarian). While I can't think of a shorter way to put 'abject' there are one or two entries I think I can suggest alternatives for:
a. Abrasive: which your dictionary rendered as 'Ife na-kpucha ife'. The ancient woodcarvers of Awka had a tool they used to smoothen the surfaces of their works - kind of like what an abrasive does. They called it Nlacha - literally 'Licking' or 'Licker'. Perhaps we could adopt the word to refer to abrasives generally. Or alternatively, we could coin another word along the same lines - say, Nkpucha, literally 'Scraping' or 'Scraper'. Or we could ditch the Awka model and avoid confusion by leaving Nkpucha to mean 'Scraping' and using Okpucha for scraper/abrasive.

b. Ambassador: which your dictionary rendered as 'onye nochi Obodo ozo'. An Agbor (Ika) word - ironically - suggests to me the possibility of a shorter coinage. Apparently, Agbor in the old days used to send out representatives of the king to reside (and in some cases rule) distant villages. These representatives were called okor-eduali. 'Okor' (uko/uku in many lects) refers to a messenger. 'Ali' (ala) clearly refers to 'land/town/country/state'. 'Edu' may refer to 'leading/leader' - not too sure. Anyway, we may drop the 'edu', and use 'oko-ali' or 'uko-ala', literally, Messenger of the State - a word with a broad meaning, covering emissaries.

An architect can also be Oseeulo rather than 'onye na ese uno', same way secretary is rendered as 'odeakwukwo' rather than 'onye na-ede akwukwo'.

Radoillo:


Hey, Phut. Good work! Compiling anything is such a tiring monotonous task, I know. Unfortunately, I know no Igbo grammarian, but can I make a few observations based on what I've seen of the work so far?

1. Abrupt: I don't think this word is exactly synonymous with 'quick'. Dictionaries explain it as 'sudden/ending or changing unexpectedly/lacking continuity'. My dialect has a word that fits perfectly, and it isn't 'osiso' (quick). It is ibide. Perhaps, similar/same word exists in the other dialects.

2. Also, I feel that speakers will be reluctant to use a translation if it consists of a (relatively) long string of words, eg onodu enweghi olile anya for abject. I think this has always been a problem for translators (and perhaps one of the reasons you need to engage a grammarian). While I can't think of a shorter way to put 'abject' there are one or two entries I think I can suggest alternatives for:
a. Abrasive: which your dictionary rendered as 'Ife na-kpucha ife'. The ancient woodcarvers of Awka had a tool they used to smoothen the surfaces of their works - kind of like what an abrasive does. They called it Nlacha - literally 'Licking' or 'Licker'. Perhaps we could adopt the word to refer to abrasives generally. Or alternatively, we could coin another word along the same lines - say, Nkpucha, literally 'Scraping' or 'Scraper'. Or we could ditch the Awka model and avoid confusion by leaving Nkpucha to mean 'Scraping' and using Okpucha for scraper/abrasive.

b. Ambassador: which your dictionary rendered as 'onye nochi Obodo ozo'. An Agbor (Ika) word - ironically - suggests to me the possibility of a shorter coinage. Apparently, Agbor in the old days used to send out representatives of the king to reside (and in some cases rule) distant villages. These representatives were called okor-eduali. 'Okor' (uko/uku in many lects) refers to a messenger. 'Ali' (ala) clearly refers to 'land/town/country/state'. 'Edu' may refer to 'leading/leader' - not too sure. Anyway, we may drop the 'edu', and use 'oko-ali' or 'uko-ala', literally, Messenger of the State - a word with a broad meaning, covering emissaries.

An architect can also be Oseeulo rather than 'onye na ese uno', same way secretary is rendered as 'odeakwukwo' rather than 'onye na-ede akwukwo'.

Thanks, Radoillo. I like Okpucha, Oseulo. Between Oko and Uko, which is more commonly used? I willl make the necessary changes

Phut:


Thanks, Radoillo. I like Okpucha, Oseulo. Between Oko and Uko, which is more commonly used? I willl make the necessary changes

Uko is the more widely used variant. [The word for priest, ukochukwu (Messenger/Emissary of God) also employs this variant].

Duplicate.

Radoillo:


Uko is the more widely used variant. [The word for priest, ukochukwu (Messenger/Emissary of God) also employs this variant].

Thanks

Duplicate.

ezeagu:


Okay, first of all there's not classical English. I think you misunderstood me saying Chinese and all do not have those prefixes, not prefixes in general, to function. This is what your sources says on Chinese affixes in relation to English ones.

"An affix is a morpheme that is attached to a word stem to form a new word. Words with
multiple affixes (WMAs) such as “translatability”, “postmodernism” and “surrealism” are
very common in English. But in Chinese most WMAs are borrowed from Japanese which
were also influenced by English. In recent years, research such as in Pan et al. (2004) and
Shen (1995) has been conducted to explore the new phenomenon of adding affixes to
Chinese words to form new words in scientific literature, which are mainly translated from
English or other western languages. Although these words have an English origin, they
show their own characteristics. To distinguish them from their counterparts in English,
Chinese linguists call them “quasi-affixes”. The concept was first proposed by Lu Shuxiang
in The Analysis of Chinese Grammar in 1978, which turned a new leaf of study Chinese
affixes. For this Xu(1997) also remarked: “In Chinese-Tibetan languages, the derivation
that plays an important role in new word creation is not those affixes whose senses are
fading and that only serve as formal markers, but those quasi-affixes that retain their certain
senses”. Because quasi-affixes emerge very fast, many new words have been created in this
way, especially in scientific literature. As we mentioned above, many Chinese compound
words were borrowed from Japanese (more than 20,000) in late Qing Dynasty by
introducing Japanese textbooks. In the process, WMAs became a part of Chinese lexicon,
e.g. words with common affixes like “-性(-ity)” and “-度(-dom)”.

"By comparing the WMAs in both English and Chinese, their features that can be used
for automatic translation are summarized into the following three categories: First, in
English the part-of-speech a word is generally shown by derivation and many multiple
affixes are used to indicate their syntactic functions. But this is not true for Chinese.
Therefore, when an English WMA is translated, the stem word is usually kept while the
affixes will be taken off. For instance, the structure of the word “modernization” is “stem
word+suffix+suffix”. Its Chinese translation is “现代化(modernization)” and the last
suffix has to be omitted and corresponds to the empty character ε.
In contrast, English words with a single affix may be translated to Chinese WMAs.
For instance, when a word like “usable” is translated, the Chinese prefix “可-(-able)” has
to be added and its translation becomes “可 利用 的 (usable)” (with the structure
“prefix+stem word+suffix”）. When analyzing this type of words, new characters need to be
generated. Some WMAs correspond very well in both languages, e. g., word
“nongovernmental” with the structure “prefix+stem word+suffix” and “ 非 政 府 的
(nongovernmental)” with the structure “prefix+stem word +suffix”.
The work in this paper considers only verbs and adjectives, the majority of WMAs.
Ordinary dictionaries usually cannot collect all the WMAs, especially in scientific literature.
They often become “unknown words” in machine translation and cannot be translated
successfully. Section 5 provides a few examples for such words."

So the point is Chinese may have been influenced by the scientific words in English by way of Chinese, but their affix or quasi-affix system follows the way established way of affixing. I don't know why I need to say 'ọnọdụnwanyọ' when I can just say 'nwanyọ'. The nature of Igbo itself flows and removes redundancies in order to harmonise words. I see this as a classic example of what this process of affixing will do, which is to attach a one-size-fits-all English-derived affixation system to everything regardless of whether it is needed or not. Reading the Chinese affixation system makes it clear that theirs is different enough from English and works with the language how it has always done. Chinese didn't 'take from English and nativized' in the sense you're talking about, rather it looked at English and provided a suitable Chinese response.

On Hausa and the Igbo languages use in media, again: I am 99% certain if you were to switch the language of all the Hausa speakers to Igbo and the language of the Igbo speakers to Hausa, we would still see a phenomena where Igbo would be used in all types of media. I am equally certain that Hausa is used in schools in northern Nigeria in a way Igbo isn't in southern Nigeria, in fact, speaking Igbo was/is often times punishable in some schools. The problem is diglossia and the rubbish orthography Igbo has, Igbo speakers don't need to speak Igbo because English is widely spoken, while in northern Nigeria Hausa is really all they've got. Even taking the Hausa example, we see that they did not need to change their grammar much to have a language that everyone uses comfortably in all or most areas of life. I'm not even going to talk about grades of civilisation, partly because it's quite irrelevant in the discussion of expanding vocabulary today.

The Hausa grammar and vocabulary have been influenced by Arabic.The Hausa language was part of the Songhai-Timbuktu civilization and it has writings going back centuries in the Arabic script. 'The problem is diglossia and the rubbish orthography Igbo has, Igbo speakers don't need to speak Igbo because English is widely spoken, while in northern Nigeria Hausa is really all they've got.' I knew you were going to write this because your whole direction has been narrow-centric. Many Northerners speak better English than many Igbos. The Hausa language is taught in secondary schools in the North just as Igbo is in the East. The Hausa language enjoys more dynamic grammar and vocabulary than Igbo, because it came under more sophisticated linguistic influences from Arabic over the course of centuries. Many people are employed as journalists in and out of Nigeria, in the Hausa language media. It is the Hausa people proud of their centuries of written civilization that are propping up the language. There are many scholars of Northern origin whose works are published in local or foreign journals in English. Many Igbos speak English atrociously, so we enjoy no advantage over anyone that speaks their native tongue and English. Infact, there is a generation of Igbos are can't speak any language well, Igbo or English.

The article on the Chinese language was only saying that after borrowing affixes from English, it undergoes native adaptation in the Language. So you agree that the Chinese borrowed affixes, which was my earlier point on the need for affixes. Here is a quote from the article that the Chinese language borrowed English affixes indirectly from Japanese as well as creating new affixes as a result of its contact with English scientific literature, 'But in Chinese most WMAs are borrowed from Japanese which
were also influenced by English. In recent years, research such as in Pan et al. (2004) and
Shen (1995) has been conducted to explore the new phenomenon of adding affixes to
Chinese words to form new words in scientific literature, which are mainly translated from
English or other western languages.'

Ofcourse languages try their best to adjust their borrowings to suit already settled practice, but it is not completely possible, something must give. Here is an article about the grammatical changes in Chinese, titled, 'Modern Chinese and Linguistic Change' http://journals.cambridge.org.libezproxy.open.ac.uk/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=3232528&jid=CQY&volumeId=92&issueId=-1&aid=3232520&bodyId=&membershipNumber=&societyETOCSession=

For your information the English language has a huge body of classical works. http://literature.proquest.com.libezproxy.open.ac.uk/createCompleteContents.do#works

And you conveniently ignored the 41 medical affixes created by the Igbo medical professionals in the Igbo-English medical dictionary, because they do not suit your excusatory trip. All your arguments, whether it is the Hausa part or the Chinese part, have been geared towards leaving the Igbo language as it is. You earlier hinted that the Igbo has a stock of lost 'sophisticated words and grammar' until I pointed out that the Igbo couldn't have had a high scientific tradition given their civilisation. Yes there was a civilization and the discovery of more than 100,000 objects of glass, iron etc hint at a flourishing past civilization of royalty, trade etc, but things should be put into perspective and not exaggerated beyond what they are.

The fact remains that the Igbo language must admit a new layer of grammar in the way of affixes, covering every aspect of life, the sciences, politics, economics, etc, to interact with the old. They are certain situations in a sentence where you can put 'nwanyo' while there are others where you must use 'onodonwanyo'. Langauge has to be laddered: you can't respond to compact sentences with explanations. Not saying that the Igbo language isn't layered, it just has to add more to confront new realities. The Igbo language has to match Shakespearian English with its equivalent, scientific English with its equivalent etc, and not verbose sentences and ridiculous coinages like, 'mbukachara' for substantiation.

Phut:
Hey guys, I bought a couple of dictionaries off Amazon and by comparing and from them, I was able to compile the attached dictionary. What do you guys think of the work, so far?

I want to make it an online, searchable dictionary with audio pronounciation for all the entries. I only attached the A entries but it is currently 525 pages long. I will add Biribiriga - Rainstorm as well as Iga - Fortress, akpede-crossbow and Agwa - Island. Can any of you make any recommendation(s) as to whom to hire for the development of the site?

cc: ChinenyeN
Ezeagu
Cheruv
Scholti
Radoillo
Melzabull

A friend bought an Igbo dictionary on the internet a year ago and it was atrocious (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Igbo-English-English-Igbo-Dictionary-Phrasebook-Hippocrene/dp/0781806615/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440018359&sr=8-2&keywords=igbo+dictionary). For instance the entry for toilet roll is, 'akwukwọ e sie hicha ike'.

In your compilation, there are some entries that didn't accurately reflect the meanings of the words or would conflict with other Igbo words that properly define them like the entry, 'Attack v: Nụsọ ọgụ = To assault/To fight.
Pronounciation:/nu-soe/~/or-gu/
Root: Ọgụ = Fight
Variant: Lụsọ ọgụ

Fighting in Igbo is called, 'Nụsọ ọgụ' (at least a popular variant of it). A new word should be sought for 'attack' in the dialects or other registers of Igbo. I have heard someone call 'attack', 'jaọgụ.'

Abdicate wasn't fully rendered, 'Abdicate v: Hapụ = To leave.
Pronunciation:/ha-poo'. 'Hapu' means leave in Igbo while abdicate means 'leave a position.' So the proper definition would, 'hapuọkwa.'

The Igbo language needs a proper dictionary that respects it and defines words in every category, the sciences, politics etc. Many 'English' words are easy to define; in many cases searching for their origins would enable translation. Here are some English words I have translated:

1.science- nzammuta
2.chemistry- ngbanweta
3. theory- nkọwata
4. hypothesis- nwunwata
5. physics - nzaọdinandu

scholti:


The Hausa grammar and vocabulary has been influenced by Arabic.The Hausa language was part of the Songhai-Timbuktu civilization and it has writings going back centuries in the Arabic script. 'The problem is diglossia and the rubbish orthography Igbo has, Igbo speakers don't need to speak Igbo because English is widely spoken, while in northern Nigeria Hausa is really all they've got.' I knew you were going to write this because your whole direction has been narrow-centric. Many Northerners speak better English than many Igbos. The Hausa language is taught in secondary schools in the North just as Igbo is in the East. The Hausa language enjoys more dynamic grammar and vocabulary than Igbo, because it came under more sophisticated linguistic influences from Arabic over the course of centuries. Many people are employed as journalists in and out of Nigeria, in the Hausa language media. It is the Hausa people proud of their centuries of written civilization that are propping up the language. There are many scholars of Northern origin whose works are published in local or foreign journals in English. Many Igbos speak English atrociously, so we enjoy no advantage over anyone that speaks their native tongue and Igbo. Infact, there is a generation of Igbos are can't speak any language well, Igbo or English.

The article on the Chinese language was only saying that after borrowing affixes from English, it undergoes native adaptation in the Language. So you agree that the Chinese borrowed affixes, which was my earlier point on the need for affixes. Here is a quote from the article that the Chinese language borrowed English affixes indirectly from Japanese as well as creating new affixes as a result of its contact with English scientific literature, 'But in Chinese most WMAs are borrowed from Japanese which
were also influenced by English. In recent years, research such as in Pan et al. (2004) and
Shen (1995) has been conducted to explore the new phenomenon of adding affixes to
Chinese words to form new words in scientific literature, which are mainly translated from
English or other western languages.'

Ofcourse languages try their best to adjust their borrowings to suit already settled practice, but it is not completely possible, something must give. Here is an article about the grammatical changes in Chinese, tilteled, 'Modern Chinese and Linguistic Change' http://journals.cambridge.org.libezproxy.open.ac.uk/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=3232528&jid=CQY&volumeId=92&issueId=-1&aid=3232520&bodyId=&membershipNumber=&societyETOCSession=

For your information the English language has a huge body of classical works. http://literature.proquest.com.libezproxy.open.ac.uk/createCompleteContents.do#works

And you conveniently ignored the 41 medical affixes created by the Igbo medical professionals in the Igbo-English medical dictionary, because they do not suit your excusatory trip. All your arguments, whether it is the Hausa part or the Chinese part, have been geared towards leaving the Igbo language as it is. You earlier hinted that the Igbo has a stock of lost 'sophisticated words and grammar' until I pointed out that the Igbo couldn't have had a high scientific tradition given their civilisation. Yes there was a civilization and the discovery of more than 100,000 objects of glass, iron etc hint at a flourishing past civilization of royalty, trade etc, but things should be put into perspective and not exaggerated beyond what they are.

The fact remains that the Igbo language must admit a new layer of grammar in the way of affixes, covering every aspect of life, the sciences, politics, economics, etc, to interact with the old. They are certain situations in a sentence where you can put 'nwanyo' while there are others where you must use 'onodonwanyo'. Langauge has to be laddered: you can't respond to compact sentences with explanations. Not saying that the Igbo language isn't layered, it just has to add more to confront new realities. The Igbo language has to match Shakespearian English with its equivalent, scientific English with its equivalent etc, and not verbose sentences and ridiculous coinages like, 'mbukachara' for substantiation.

The whole Arabic influence on Hausa making it more 'advanced' and therefore easy to spread is something I'm not going to buy, so agreement to disagree maybe. The fact that English is spoken in southern Nigeria more than it is spoken in northern Nigeria is evident in the fact that Hausa is a lingua franca in itself. The level or form of English is not really relevant because people still use a form of English in southern Nigeria as a lingua franca. English is not widely spoken in Zinder and Kano how it is in Port Harcourt or Warri. I'm certain of that. And when I talked about schools, I was talking about instruction, not subjects.

A 'classical English register' is different from classical English works. Classical English doesn't exist and there's no 'simple German' in the sense that you can get a simple English.

The presumed affixes in the medical terms are compound words, or even pseudo-affixes like in Chinese, I've not argued against compounding, or even the use of 'ọnọdụ', what I've warned about was the one-size-fits all approach of adding English-transliterated affixes to all forms even when it is unnecessary and the idea that Igbo grammar can't work for today. What I've spoken for was the use of the present affixes in Igbo which are very clear and rational to Igbo speakers. Now I can't remember talking about sophisticated words, because I wouldn't describe words in such a way. I wasn't going to talk about civilisation. Civilisation is very irrelevant to this discussion because we are talking about vocabulary and the expanding of it, the only words we have trouble with are post-industrial words, apart from geographical and cultural words like tea. Most languages in the world, including European ones had to follow English' lead for industrial words and everything that followed. The stuff we're doing here trying to find terminology for post-industrial words isn't even done by languages like Japanese for many cases, they just adopt a loan word and 'Japanify' it, and I'm talking about common words like engine, motor and machine. Not saying this is good or bad, just that the idea that Igbo's lack of post-industrial terminology signifies a backwardness in the old society isn't really putting everything in perspective, especially with the introduction of industrial age going hand-in-hand with British imperialism and therefore education. If you believe this is wrong then give me examples of pre-industrial words that do not exist in Igbo which aren't obviously geographical and cultural words like ice. Most of the medical terms in English itself were coined from only around 300 years ago via Latin and Greek because the English believed those to be the classical languages of civilisation.

This whole trajectory of this discussion was my contention in the first place: that we are assuming that the way Igbo words are formed is 'backward' simply because it doesn't follow the method used in the languages of 'more advanced' civilisations. There are people who speak Igbo really well, I mean really really well. They usually just use loan words and they communicate perfectly fine, if you came up with the vocabulary to simply replace these loans it'd work for them perfectly. Again, I don't see why we need to compeltely change the grammar of Igbo. I don't think that's the problem and I don't think that will solve the wider issue of people not speaking Igbo because they 1. they don't have to, the fact that this whole conversation is in English shows that 2. English is the official language of instruction and the most widely spoken language, in whatever form, in southern Nigeria.

ChinenyeN:

This is why I encourage people to really know their lects. We don't need to go round masquerading agglutination as inflection. I know, for example, that an equivalent of \-able\ exists in Ngwa. It's simply rendered during verb construction, like roots during 'progressive suffixation.' And just as I know the equivalent exists in Ngwa, so also would I like to believe that it is present in other lects. I'd be surprised if it weren't.

I advocate for a fixed Igbo affix rendering '-able' (the remaining Igbo words would still be used to signify 'able' but in other registers) that can faithfully adapt to new situations. I am open to a consensus on it, whether it is the Ngwa affix for it or any other. The affix would be able to adapt to words like - written in different registers - 'roadable', 'doorable', 'motorable', 'housable', flagable.'

ChinenyeN:
Adding to kpe-derived words, there is nkpe, which we use in Ngwa to reference the traditional clan charter/constitution. We clearly don't need to look too far to build vocabulary. The foundation exists. Whether or not it mirrors other languages is of no consequence.

Scholti, there is a reason for terminology. It is so we can be on the same page. If you've got one thought in mind and you use a word that elicits a different thought in my mind, then we achieve nothing other than confusion. That's simply the reason why I want us to be on the same page with terminology. With regard to high-level discourse, you can't just talk about being above technicalities. Also, there actually does exist a plural marker in Ngwa and many other lects. It just isn't an affix, but rather a demonstrative. It achieves the same purpose as \-s\, just not in the same way (again, no need to think in English). Finally, I'd like to understand what you mean by bi being burdened. Would you mind explaining?

The reason I wrote that 'bi' was burdened is that, it is used wherever 'shelter' or its synonyms are mentioned. We cannot be using one or few words to signify accommodation and its synonyms. We must develop a robust dictionary with more word alternatives and also extend words like 'ulo' through literary devices. That was my whole drift in introducing 'wo' and 'woro' for unusual situations. 'Uloworo' should be perfectly normal in Igbo, as well as 'mmaduworo (peopled)'.

Again, I chose 'sis' for illustrative purposes to illustrate 's'. We are not better than the Greeks who borrowed, 's' from English. The language hasn't died. There is no modern, breathing language on earth that hasn't borrowed affixes whatever its grammar 'type'. It is already happening in Igbo with the medical dictionary affixes.

Igbo does have ways and words for indicating plurals like, 'umu' and 'gazie'; but these do not work well in compact, complex word situations; hence my advocacy for a suffix that complements the existing ways of indicating plural; I am fine with whatever term or letters the suffix takes, as long as it is there.

I actually agree completely with your line of thought concerning the modernization of the Igbo language to get on board with the changing times. I believe your approach will make it easier for the Igbo language to become more useful in various areas of learning like physics, chemistry, etc. It may need a little getting used to but i know it will be more than effective in the long run. The approach taken by Chinenye and Ezeagu are not bad either but yours seems to be more progressive in my own humble opinion. Really, it would be nice if y'all can adopt favorable ideas from one another to bring about the desired result.
Personally, i feel that we Africans failed woefully earlier on by allowing the white man to colonize us with their own language. It is only in Africa that you see students learning with a foreign language. Whereas in other parts of the world like China, Japan, India and Spain, students are taught with their own language. We need to ask ourselves why these people (including the rest of the developed world), are on the fore front of new everyday inventions, while we keep playing catch up. I believe strongly that if our kids are taught in school with their mother tongue, they will begin to understand a lot of the courses being taught in schools better than they are doing currently, and thus stand a better chance of being more innovative.
The earlier we return to our own God-given language and bring it up to speed with other international languages, the better for us. Our fore bearers already made the fatal mistake of abandoning our own language for a foreign one which they foolishly thought was superior to their own, and now the onus is on us to right that wrong.
PS, I promised not to get involved on Nairaland forum again. However on logging in today, i just couldn't help but comment on this thread and commend y'all for the wonderful job you are doing. God bless you.

scholti:


A friend bought an Igbo dictionary on the internet a year ago and it was atrocious (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Igbo-English-English-Igbo-Dictionary-Phrasebook-Hippocrene/dp/0781806615/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440018359&sr=8-2&keywords=igbo+dictionary). For instance the entry for toilet roll is, 'akwukwọ e sie hicha ike'.

In your compilation, there are some entries that didn't accurately reflect the meanings of the words or would conflict with other Igbo words that properly define them like the entry, 'Attack v: Nụsọ ọgụ = To assault/To fight.
Pronounciation:/nu-soe/~/or-gu/
Root: Ọgụ = Fight
Variant: Lụsọ ọgụ

Fighting in Igbo is called, 'Nụsọ ọgụ' (at least a popular variant of it). A new word should be sought for 'attack' in the dialects or other registers of Igbo. I have had someone call 'attack', 'jaọgụ.'

Abdicate wasn't fully rendered, 'Abdicate v: Hapụ = To leave.
Pronunciation:/ha-poo'. 'Hapu' means leave in Igbo while abdicate means 'leave a position.' So the proper definition would, 'hapuọkwa.'

The Igbo language needs a proper dictionary that respects it and defines words in every category, the sciences, politics etc. Many 'English' words are easy to define; in many cases searching for their origins would enable translation. Here are some English words I have translated:

1.science- nzammuta
2.chemistry- ngbanwetita
3. theory- nkọwata
4. hypothesis- nwunwatita
5. physics - nzaọdinandu

Phut:


Why would di be confused with "Is" in this instance? Especially since it would not be a standalone word. It would be dieze. Diokpukpu. Di means master

The word 'di' is an ubiquitous Igbo word, heavily involved in its grammatical mechanism; a unique alternative would be better, any.

Scholti, the plural indicator among the Igbo lects is not umu or gazie. At least, not in any of the lects that I'm aware of. For the Ngwa-Mbaise-Ikwerre axis, the plural indicator is we.

Ex.
-- unu ntere miiri we m di-ihu? (did you all cook the soups that I am seeing?)
-- iri we e ghevara tokwara piai (the flash-fried foods also tasted exquisite)
-- ma aka we ma ukwu we ma isi we ghasachara l'ala (even arms, and legs and heads where completely scattered and spread all over the ground.)

The construction exists and is an actively used part of our lects, but it isn't something we employ in every instance as it isn't an obligatory part of constructing the sentence. But, if someone wanted to specifically say chairs, the functionality is there to say it.

As for uloworo, I'm not sure how you can believe that it should be perfectly normal Igbo. Perfectly normal Igbo is centered around the verb and verbs begin with roots, except in instances in which the modifiers a-, e-, i- are used. So, uloworo as it is will not be recognized as the active part of a sentence. I wonder if you're actually understanding me. Uloworo wouldn't be perfectly normal Igbo, unless the u- modifier is dropped and lowo becomes adopted as a root in order for it to be recognized as an active part of the sentence construction.

Ex. a loworo we l'onodi rerere we (they were housed in decrepit conditions)
**if I may so adapt your example to Ngwa

In which case, ilowo would be to house and ibi will retain its meaning of to reside. Do you understand the point I'm making?

nwanlecha:

I actually agree completely with your line of thought concerning the modernization of the Igbo language to get on board with the changing times. I believe your approach will make it easier for the Igbo language to become more useful in various areas of learning like physics, chemistry, etc. It may need a little getting used to but i know it will be more than effective in the long run. The approach taken by Chinenye and Ezeagu are not bad either but yours seems to be more progressive in my own humble opinion. Really, it would be nice if y'all can adopt favorable ideas from one another to bring about the desired result.
Personally, i feel that we Africans failed woefully earlier on by allowing the white man to colonize us with their own language. It is only in Africa that you see students learning with a foreign language. Whereas in other parts of the world like China, Japan,India and Spain, students are taught with their own language. We need to ask ourselves why these people (including the rest of the developed world), are on the fore front of new everyday inventions, while we keep playing catch up. I believe strongly that if our kids are taught in school with their mother tongue, they will begin to understand a lot of the courses being taught in schools better than they are doing currently, and thus stand a better chance of being more innovative.
The earlier we return to our own God-given language and bring it up to speed with other international languages, the better for us. Our fore bearers already made the fatal mistake of abandoning our own language for a foreign one which they foolishly thought was superior to their own, and now the onus is on us to right that wrong.
PS, I promised not to get involved on Nairaland forum again. However on logging in today, i just couldn't help but comment on this thread and commend y'all for the wonderful job you are doing. God bless you.

Thank you very much. Your words are wonderful. Indeed, languages are indispensable to the growth of a country. Research upon research have shown that people learn better in their native tongues. In Nigeria, we have people who can't speak English or their native tongue.

I love the Igbo languge so much. I have been enveloped it virtually all my life and that is why I embarked on this project to further take it greatness. I am working on a list of affixes covering every aspect of human life as well as a comprehensive Igbo dictionary befitting a language spoken by 40 million people.

I want to take the Igbo language from villages and ime ulọ to serious conversations of physics, civil engineering, sociolinguistics etc, in native words.

Keep in touch, I would soon release the list of affixes and there are more goodies in store. I want to start a movement that would take the Igbo language to an unprecedented; I don't care if there are only fifty people on board initially. Languages like French, German etc were greatly shaped by a few people.

No Igbo person discusses microbiology, economics, etc in Igbo, because the vocabulary and grammar are not there. There are many Igbos who believe that the Igbo language shouldn't communicate these fields.The Igbo language languishes in a low order of existence, it is shameful. I want to bring it up, spoken- and written-wise.

scholti:


A friend bought an Igbo dictionary on the internet a year ago and it was atrocious (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Igbo-English-English-Igbo-Dictionary-Phrasebook-Hippocrene/dp/0781806615/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440018359&sr=8-2&keywords=igbo+dictionary). For instance the entry for toilet roll is, 'akwukwọ e sie hicha ike'.

In your compilation, there are some entries that didn't accurately reflect the meanings of the words or would conflict with other Igbo words that properly define them like the entry, 'Attack v: Nụsọ ọgụ = To assault/To fight.
Pronounciation:/nu-soe/~/or-gu/
Root: Ọgụ = Fight
Variant: Lụsọ ọgụ

Fighting in Igbo is called, 'Nụsọ ọgụ' (at least a popular variant of it). A new word should be sought for 'attack' in the dialects or other registers of Igbo. I have had someone call 'attack', 'jaọgụ.'

Abdicate wasn't fully rendered, 'Abdicate v: Hapụ = To leave.
Pronunciation:/ha-poo'. 'Hapu' means leave in Igbo while abdicate means 'leave a position.' So the proper definition would, 'hapuọkwa.'

The Igbo language needs a proper dictionary that respects it and defines words in every category, the sciences, politics etc. Many 'English' words are easy to define; in many cases searching for their origins would enable translation. Here are some English words I have translated:

1.science- nzammuta
2.chemistry- ngbanweta
3. theory- nkọwata
4. hypothesis- nwunwata
5. physics - nzaọdinandu

Jaogu is great. So is hapuokwa. Will also add Nkowata

.

ChinenyeN:
Scholti, the plural indicator among the Igbo lects is not umu or gazie. At least, not in any of the lects that I'm aware of. For the Ngwa-Mbaise-Ikwerre axis, the plural indicator is we.

Ex.
-- unu ntere miiri we m di-ihu? (did you all cook the soups that I am seeing?)
-- iri we e ghevara tokwara piai (the flash-fried foods also tasted exquisite)
-- ma aka we ma ukwu we ma isi we ghasachara l'ala (even arms, and legs and heads where completely scattered and spread all over the ground.)

The construction exists and is an actively used part of our lects, but it isn't something we employ in every instance as it isn't an obligatory part of constructing the sentence. But, if someone wanted to specifically say chairs, the functionality is there to say it.

As for uloworo, I'm not sure how you can believe that it should be perfectly normal Igbo. Perfectly normal Igbo is centered around the verb and verbs begin with roots, except in instances in which the modifiers a-, e-, i- are used. So, uloworo as it is will not be recognized as the active part of a sentence. I wonder if you're actually understanding me. Uloworo wouldn't be perfectly normal Igbo, unless the u- modifier is dropped and lowo becomes adopted as a root in order for it to be recognized as an active part of the sentence construction.

Ex. a loworo we l'onodi rerere we (they were housed in decrepit conditions)
**if I may so adapt your example to Ngwa

In which case, ilowo would be to house and ibi will retain its meaning of to reside. Do you understand the point I'm making?

I want to multi-dimensionalize Igbo. We can't be doing the same things always. We have to welcome a new layer of grammar. 'Uloworo' (housed) should be normal in Igbo. A language must have flexibility, what I call '360ization.' It must be unpredictable, reinventive. Forget the old ways of doing things in Igbo, we must reinvigorate it with a new life.

I am aware that there are different ways of indicating plural, in the dialects or popular forms of Igbo, like 'Ndi-', as a plural for people; but they do not have the compressive qualities of a suffix in tight, charged situations.

I am after taking Igbo out of its complacency. I should be able to say 'onyonyoworo (televised)' or 'akpaworo (bagged)' in Igbo. I know these contravene traditional aspects of the language but that is my point, I want to normalize a new vigour, a new grammar that marries with the old. The old can no longer subsist alone. Change is here. We need to create a laddered language, we many registers, made possible by affixes.

Phut:
@ ChinenyeN and Ezeagu: can either one of you state the rules which govern the use of the affixes (a, I, e ...) such that a person that is new to the language will be able to decide what to use based on the rules? This isn't arbitrary is it? There has to be a method to the ....

I'd say ị/i is an infinite, a can be past-tense hence the verb has been attained, e is similar attainment depending on vowel harmony and the inherency of something, u is the perfect attainment of a verb, n/m is the action of the verb. Something like that.

ezeagu:


I was thinking about how the word for court could be created with the affixing and compounding of 'kpé' and using tone to our advantage, as well as in the creation of other law terms.

ikpe; legal battle
nkpè; court
ukpè; judgement, judge v. [gọ ụkpè]
àkpè; legislation
èkpè; act, decree; acting [èkpùkpè]
òkpè; lawyer
ókpè; court room

compound
àzúikpè; verdict
ńjụíkpè, ọjụíkpè; objection
ọláíkpè; inconclusive
ọhàíkpè [ọhíkpè]; jury

and so on, I haven't even gone into íwú and I've made, presumably, ten legal terms. From one verb. 10. Now imagine what could be done with the thousands of verbs using this simple affixing, and in that case understandable, style that's been used to create most Igbo words already.

Coming back to this, isn't Judgement/ Verdict Nkpebi. That way Njuikpe would be Objection.
Coan you use the examples up above to explain when to use each affix. Is there a set rule which applies to each and every verb?

ezeagu:


I'd say ị/i is an infinite, a can be past-tense hence the verb has been attained, e is similar attainment depending on vowel harmony and the inherency of something, u is the perfect attainment of a verb, n/m is the action of the verb. Something like that.

Nkpe wouldn't work for court (a noun) then

Phut:

Coming back to this, isn't Judgement/ Verdict Nkpebi. That way Njuikpe would be Objection.
Coan you use the examples up above to explain when to use each affix. Is there a set rule which applies to each and every verb?

Nkpebi is agreement or decision, so I guess it can work for verdict, although if you would want to get more specific maybe you would want something that goes around a verdict.

Phut:

Nkpe wouldn't work for court (a noun) then

N/m 'action of the verb' loosely means an object which the verb could be acted on, so ntụ 'nail' is something used to inflict. The connotations of the affixes are just being deciphered, though. I forgot to add 'o/ọ' which is he/she/it.

ezeagu:


The whole Arabic influence on Hausa making it more 'advanced' and therefore easy to spread is something I'm not going to buy, so agreement to disagree maybe. The fact that English is spoken in southern Nigeria more than it is spoken in northern Nigeria is evident in the fact that Hausa is a lingua franca in itself. The level or form of English is not really relevant because people still use a form of English in southern Nigeria as a lingua franca. English is not widely spoken in Zinder and Kano how it is in Port Harcourt or Warri. I'm certain of that. And when I talked about schools, I was talking about instruction, not subjects.

A 'classical English register' is different from classical English works. Classical English doesn't exist and there's no 'simple German' in the sense that you can get a simple English.

The presumed affixes in the medical terms are compound words, or even pseudo-affixes like in Chinese, I've not argued against compounding, or even the use of 'ọnọdụ', what I've warned about was the one-size-fits all approach of adding English-transliterated affixes to all forms even when it is unnecessary and the idea that Igbo grammar can't work for today. What I've spoken for was the use of the present affixes in Igbo which are very clear and rational to Igbo speakers. Now I can't remember talking about sophisticated words, because I wouldn't describe words in such a way. I wasn't going to talk about civilisation. Civilisation is very irrelevant to this discussion because we are talking about vocabulary and the expanding of it, the only words we have trouble with are post-industrial words, apart from geographical and cultural words like tea. Most languages in the world, including European ones had to follow English' lead for industrial words and everything that followed. The stuff we're doing here trying to find terminology for post-industrial words isn't even done by languages like Japanese for many cases, they just adopt a loan word and 'Japanify' it, and I'm talking about common words like engine, motor and machine. Not saying this is good or bad, just that the idea that Igbo's lack of post-industrial terminology signifies a backwardness in the old society isn't really putting everything in perspective, especially with the introduction of industrial age going hand-in-hand with British imperialism and therefore education. If you believe this is wrong then give me examples of pre-industrial words that do not exist in Igbo which aren't obviously geographical and cultural words like ice. Most of the medical terms in English itself were coined from only around 300 years ago via Latin and Greek because the English believed those to be the classical languages of civilisation.

This whole trajectory of this discussion was my contention in the first place: that we are assuming that the way Igbo words are formed is 'backward' simply because it doesn't follow the method used in the languages of 'more advanced' civilisations. There are people who speak Igbo really well, I mean really really well. They usually just use loan words and they communicate perfectly fine, if you came up with the vocabulary to simply replace these loans it'd work for them perfectly. Again, I don't see why we need to compeltely change the grammar of Igbo. I don't think that's the problem and I don't think that will solve the wider issue of people not speaking Igbo because they 1. they don't have to, the fact that this whole conversation is in English shows that 2. English is the official language of instruction and the most widely spoken language, in whatever form, in southern Nigeria.

I am not after making people speak Igbo or advocating for parents to teach their children Igbo or stopping the tide of people abandoning Igbo. These are beyond the purview of what I am about. People who refuse to teach their children Igbo or speak Igbo poorly (and happy with the situation) do so from conscious decision. I have never been drawn to the advocacy for people to learn Igbo (or the call for parents to teach their children Igbo), I see it as childish. People have abandoned languages for new ones. America is a good example. People from different linguistic backgrounds have adopted English. What I am doing is for people who speak Igbo and want to use it in every area of life robustly (or those who want to learn).

There is no Igbo that speaks Igbo well because Igbo doesn't have the vocabulary or grammar for serious modern discussions, in the sciences, politics, economics etc.

Stop giving excuses about English. English is Nigeria's lingua franca but the Hausa language employs many people in newspapers, radios etc. English is spoken all over the North, in many cases better than the East, yet the Hausa is an economy on its own there. The Yoruba language has 6 newspapers. Whereas Igbo spoken natively in 8 states doesn't have a single Igbo language journalist. There are many multi-language countries like South Africa (Zulu etc), Switzerland (Italian etc) were languages live together and prosper. English can live well with every language in Nigeria, as the Hausa example shows (and other multicultural settings in the world show). The Hausa language has profited from borrowings from Arabic, grammatically and vocabulary-wise. Find out about people you share the same nationality with.

Concerning vocabulary, no people with brains would cede 100% of their words of science or any discipline to any language, not even 50 percent. Languages - Chinese, Japanese etc - do a mixture of borrowing and finding native words.

Affixes are indispensable to language growth as the Igbo medical affixes show; every language has borrowed them, Chinese, Japanese etc. A new vigour would charge Igbo.

scholti:


I am not after making people speak Igbo or advocating for parents to teach their children Igbo or stopping the tide of people abandoning Igbo. These are beyond the purview of what I am about. People who refuse to teach their children Igbo or speak Igbo poorly (and happy with the situation) do so from conscious decision. I have never been drawn to the advocacy for people to learn Igbo (or the call for parents to teach their children Igbo), I see it as childish. People have abandoned languages for new ones. America is good example. People from different linguistic backgrounds have adopted English. What I am doing is for people who speak Igbo and want to use it in every area of life robustly (or those who want to learn).

There is no Igbo that speaks Igbo well because Igbo doesn't have the vocabulary or grammar for serious modern discussions, in the sciences, politics, economics etc. The Igbo precolonial past was not great. There is no archaeology or record from travellers indicating so. Sure some words and grammar have been lost or forgotten, but they wouldn't be sufficient for modern existence. They weren't great scientific researches in precolonial Igboland. Yes there was a civilization, but not as great as those in West Africa, or in and outside Africa.

Stop giving excuses about English. English is Nigeria's lingua franca but the Hausa language employs many people in newspapers, radios etc. English is spoken all over the North, in many cases better than the East, yet the Hausa is an economy on its own there. The Yoruba language has 6 newspapers. Whereas Igbo spoken natively in 8 states doesn't have a single Igbo language journalist. There are many multi-language countries like South Africa (Zulu etc), Switzerland (Italian etc) were languages live together and prosper. English can live well with every language in Nigeria, as the Hausa example shows (and other multicultural settings in the world show). The Hausa language has profited from borrowings from Arabic, grammatically and vocabulary-wise. Find out about people you share the same nationality with.

Concerning vocabulary, no people with any brains would cede 100% of their words to science or any discipline, not even 50 percent. Languages - Chinese, Japanese etc - do a mixture of borrowing and finding native words.

Affixes are indispensable to language growth as the Igbo medical affixes show, every language has borrowed them, Chinese, Japanese etc. A new vigor would charge Igbo.

People can speak very good Igbo.

'Yes there was a civilization, but not as great as those in West Africa, or in and outside Africa.' What does this actually mean?

You're not getting what diglossia, the importance of language as the language of instruction and what the widespread use of a language means which results in this back and forth about the status of English and Hausa's dominance in the north, and now Yoruba. So in that case, is Yoruba among the more 'advanced' languages? Did it borrow grammar from Arabic and English in order for readers to write newspapers as you've said?

I've already alluded to it, but the majority of the scientific and medical terminology in English aren't even of English origin, they're loanwords deliberately taken from other Romance languages and Greek and Latin. So, yes, languages can take on massive amounts of loaning, just like I've said for Japanese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms .

All this was discussed because I did not see the need for certain affixes which were shoehorned in on certain words. If this is a discussion of the progression of Igbo language, then it should be a discussion on how to best mould it to the modern world while not completely alienating speakers, and if you think Igbo speakers don't learn or try to speak better Igbo now, it will be very hard to completely switch the grammar on them and others who speak Igbo very well and have been for more than half a century.

Please count me in 'cause i am equally as passionate about the Igbo language. Nothing will give me greater joy than to see our language being mentioned in line with other international languages like French, English, Mandarin, etc. Take not cognizance of the naysayers because people are known to resist whatever they are not used to. One person can make a move that can change the world you know? So ride on brother, your work is greatly appreciated.

scholti:


Thank you very much. Your words are wonderful. Indeed, languages are indispensable to the growth of a country. Research upon research have shown that people learn better in their native tongues. In Nigeria, we have people who can't speak English or their native tongue.

I love the Igbo languge so much. I have been enveloped it virtually all my life and that is why I embarked on this project to further take it greatness. I am working on a list of affixes covering every aspect of human life as well as a comprehensive Igbo dictionary befitting a language spoken by 40 million people.

I want to take the Igbo language from villages and ime ulọ to serious conversations of physics, civil engineering, sociolinguistics etc, in native words.

Keep in touch, I would soon release the list of affixes and there are more goodies in store. I want to start a movement that would take the Igbo language to an unprecedented; I don't care if there are only fifty people on board initially. Languages like French, German etc were greatly shaped by a few people.

No Igbo person discusses microbiology, economics, etc in Igbo, because the vocabulary and grammar are not there. There are many Igbos who believe that the Igbo language shouldn't communicate these fields.The Igbo language languishes in a low order of existence, it is shameful. I want to bring it up, spoken- and written-wise.

Scholti, I see your vision. In fact, the majority of your objective makes sense to me and I agree with it. Now, I don't exactly disagree with the other aspects of your vision. I just find them unnecessary. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how I feel, or you feel or anyone feels, because here's what we all know to be true: Whatever people see, learn to use and use actively will be what will perpetuate through time.

I can use my family as a case-in-point. We've taken up to using Ngwa for anything we can at home, and I mean anything. If we come across something that we either can't recall an expression for or there doesn't exist an expression for, then we make the effort of quickly constructing something and then moving on. Some quick constructs fade back to oblivion, and some persist and have expanded our vocabulary considerably. However, not all newly introduced lexical items were well-received.

For example, a new class of grammatical adverbs was introduced in our speech. Unlike most Igbo adverb classes, which qualify verbs, this class qualifies nouns. So, it's a bit atypical. The introduction of this class of adverb also led to a change in grammatical structure for the verb construction. This was not liked by the adults when it was first introduced, but those of us who are younger liked it and used it. It's now an active part of our speech, and it has allowed us more versatility of expression and in a more compact way. In fact, this adverb class has turned out to be so functional that it's hard to imagine the next generation of our family not using it.

Basically, feel free to push forward with your objective. At the very least, I would still be interested in seeing and reading whatever it is you eventually end up with, regardless of whether or not it turns out as successfully as you would hope. Keep us informed, and if you want opinions, there are definitely people here who wouldn't mind giving them to you. I definitely encourage that you post here or create a mailing list/group that willing people can subscribe to.

In Ngwa we have a saying: o buu ohna mgbutighta ovo chekpo (it's not everyone that has the capacity to kill and cure an ovo bird) A lofty vision typically remains in the mind and hands of the person envisioning it, until it picks up off the ground. I'd know. I'm in a similar boat as you, just not paddling in the same direction.

I am not a linguist (thankfully) and hardly know much about the evolution of the English language, but i know that the English that was spoken during the times of shakespeare for eg, is way different from the modern English of our time. Which implies that English has undergone a series of changes to arrive at what is obtainable today. In fact new words are often added time and time again to the English vocabulary. So, i think what you are trying to do is in line with the necessary modifications, that every living language which intends to continue being useful in academic settings must undergo.

You know that i can actually be sold in your Ngwa dialect and i would be smiling from ear to ear not knowing what is going on? To be honest, i sometimes still marvel at the complexity of the Igbo language.

ChinenyeN:
Scholti, I see your vision. In fact, the majority of your objective makes sense to me and I agree with it. Now, I don't exactly disagree with the other aspects of your vision. I just find them unnecessary. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how I feel, or you feel or anyone feels, because here's what we all know to be true: Whatever people see, learn to use and use actively will be what will perpetuate through time.

I can use my family as a case-in-point. We've taken up to using Ngwa for anything we can at home, and I mean anything. If we come across something that we either can't recall an expression for or there doesn't exist an expression for, then we make the effort of quickly constructing something and then moving on. Some quick constructs fade back to oblivion, and some persist and have expanded our vocabulary considerably. However, not all newly introduced lexical items were well-received.

For example, a new class of grammatical adverbs was introduced in our speech. Unlike most Igbo adverb classes, which qualify verbs, this class qualifies nouns. So, it's a bit atypical. The introduction of this class of adverb also led to a change in grammatical structure for the verb construction. This was not liked by the adults when it was first introduced, but those of us who are younger liked it and used it. It's now an active part of our speech, and it has allowed us more versatility of expression and in a more compact way. In fact, this adverb class has turned out to be so functional that it's hard to imagine the next generation of our family not using it.

Basically, feel free to push forward with your objective. At the very least, I would still be interested in seeing and reading whatever it is you eventually end up with, regardless of whether or not it turns out as successfully as you would hope. Keep us informed, and if you want opinions, there are definitely people here who wouldn't mind giving them to you. I definitely encourage that you post here or create a mailing list/group that willing people can subscribe to.

In Ngwa we have a saying: o buu ohna mgbutighta ovo chekpo (it's not everyone that has the capacity to kill and cure an ovo bird) A lofty vision typically remains in the mind and hands of the person envisioning it, until it picks up off the ground. I'd know. I'm in a similar boat as you, just not paddling in the same direction.

ezeagu:


People can speak very good Igbo.

'Yes there was a civilization, but not as great as those in West Africa, or in and outside Africa.' What does this actually mean?

You're not getting what diglossia, the importance of language as the language of instruction and what the widespread use of a language means which results in this back and forth about the status of English and Hausa's dominance in the north, and now Yoruba. So in that case, is Yoruba among the more 'advanced' languages? Did it borrow grammar from Arabic and English in order for readers to write newspapers as you've said?

I've already alluded to it, but the majority of the scientific and medical terminology in English aren't even of English origin, they're loanwords deliberately taken from other Romance languages and Greek and Latin. So, yes, languages can take on massive amounts of loaning, just like I've said for Japanese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms .

All this was discussed because I did not see the need for certain affixes which were shoehorned in on certain words. If this is a discussion of the progression of Igbo language, then it should be a discussion on how to best mould it to the modern world while not completely alienating speakers, and if you think Igbo speakers don't learn or try to speak better Igbo now, it will be very hard to completely switch the grammar on them and others who speak Igbo very well and have been for more than half a century.

The reason most scientific words in English are of Latin and Greek origins (50-55% of English words are of Latin origin) maybe tied intimately to the status of Latin in England (and Europe). England was conquered and ruled by the Normans, a French-speaking group, for centuries, who introduced floods of Latin-based words through French. French was used in high society. (Latin had inherited Greek learning in antiquity.) The same thing applies to all romance languages. They were once pidgins of Latin. The Igbo language has only been in intimate contact with English for less than 200 years, it isn't in the same socio-political situation that English was vis a vis French, Greek and Latin. When Igbos borrow from English they do so because they have no choice. There isn't a proper word base nor is there a refurbished grammar. Sure the Japanese has adopted words from English but they have also created plenty of local equivalents. No language sits back and allows every word enter the language unless specific historical examples like English and the romance languages. Languages borrow and create. Today robust languages find native words for many words.

When I write that nobody speaks Igbo well, I mean that the grammar and vocabulary do not permit the full expression of the sciences, politics, economics etc. The Igbo language doesn't allow serious communication (only in low-hitting areas.) The Igbo language needs the full and new vigour of fresh affixes covering every aspect of human life, to marry with the old.