dalaman:


If it were Islam this shameless malvisguy22 will come and be splitting hairs and telling us how it is all wrong, but as long as it is christianity then he will find their weirdest of lies to explain away absurdities and craziness.

All you have to do is to proved to me , biblical slavery is the samething of nowadays own. Does modern day slave put law to guide slaves ?

malvisguy212:
All you have to do is to proved to me , biblical slavery is the samething of nowadays own. Does modern day slave put law to guide slaves ?

It's actually worse. Those that practice slavery today know there are doing a bad thing so they hide their business away and conduct it in the dark. Your God saw nothing wrong with people buying and owning each other as slaves.

malvisguy212:
honestly , you guys are missing the points, let try this way:

What is slave in this context ?"Slaves" in this context are debtors (mortgage holders, for instance), employees, and tax payers. We still have slavery. You are probably a slave unless you are an entrepreneur with no debt.

Read the whole context . Do you read everything in just a few sentences or verse ?? Can you not read the whole chapter and comprehend the meaning? Old Testament laws regulating slavery are confusing to modern people, but in
their historical context they provided a
degree of social recognition and legal
law protection to slaves that was
advanced for its time (Exodus 21:20-27;
Leviticus 25:44-46). We must keep in
mind that on occasion it was an
alternative to the massacre of a enemy
populations in wartime and the
starvation of the poor during famine
times.Being a slave was a better then
dieing of starvation There were strict
laws on how a person was to be treated
.This was not the same kind of slavery
you think of as American black slavery
.A slave owner in the bible could be
killed by law for treating a person slave
wrongly . A Mutually Beneficial
Relationship Frequently was involved
here.Fact in Bible times this was much
more of an employer/employee
relationship than an owner/slave situation. Even the words used to
delineate between a hired servant and
a slave are difficult for modern folks to
comprehend .

The major challenge here is that these folks are being anachronistic perhaps inadvertently or deliberately (being blinded by Theophobia). I challenge any one to consider the matter from the perspective of the realities (technological, global, economical and commercial) that was obtainable then.( As a hint, Moses died around 1273 BCE meaning these laws were given around 1313 BCE.) Until that is done. all conclusions based on such a false premise (due to timing differences) share that attribute with the premise.

malvisguy212:
its a choice, you believe or you reject,you chose to reject God base on the OLD covenant ? Good for you .

I've been saying this for long and I will continue to say it:

The angel Lucifer fell and became Satan (“adversary”) due to his desire to supplant God. This was Lucifer’s single-minded obsession. He not only rejected God by attempting to supplant Him, but he urged humans to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God for her own self-fulfilment:

Genesis 3:1-5
He said to the woman, “Did God actually
say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the
garden’?” And the woman said to the
serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the
trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that
is in the midst of the garden, neither
shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the
serpent said to the woman, “You will not
surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” .

LET US ANALYSED THIS:
The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s
statements, then, contradict God’s
statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.

This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to
make statements in the first place, so
God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to
have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self.

This satanic deception appeals strongly
to atheists as it bolsters two of their
desired delusions:
1 absolute autonomy: being free to do as they please, and
2 the lack of ultimate accountability:
there are no eternal consequences for
doing as they please.

The fool say there is no God ,he is not a fool because he is an atheist , but he is a fool because he think he can get awy with his bad moral behaviour, he think God will not notice his sin .

Exactly so - ''QUESTION God's statement, CONTRADICT God's statement and urge REBELLION against God''.

The atheists have soft spot for islam, yet they say their is no God, is allahh not a god?

There is a meeting point for atheism and islam as the deity that is responsible for atheists not believing in God is the one who is also responsible for muslims believing in false god.

dalaman:


It's actually worse. Those that practice slavery today know there are doing a bad thing so they hide their business away and conduct it in the dark. Your God saw nothing wrong with people buying and owning each other as slaves.

Certain practices suited the realities of the era in which they were practised, as things change, technology advances and civilisation progresses, some of such practices either metamorphose or are totally abandoned.
The modern day employer and employee relationship is one of such metamorphosed practices. Some similarities are:
1. An employee's time for a particular period of the day is bought hence that time will be used only for the employer's purposes ;
2. Except in idle times, an employee needs the approval of the employer before embarking on personal agenda within the time bought;
3. The employee offers his skills and time for use of the employer and hopes the latter accepts his offer.
4. There are some outsourcing firms that accumulates such employees and sends them out to their clients as the demand arises in exchange for a fee paid not to the employee but to the outsourcing firm (these firms may get jumbo fee and pay peanuts to the employees)

For one who lived around 1300 BCE, the practise above will be unacceptable! The labour-intensive situation then meant you had to be sure of your work force unlike the high labour turnover recorded in some places today, focus was labour security. Today, given the advancement in technology and the continual redundance of human labour,focus is job security.

There was a time when you could hunt down any animal and use firewood lavishly and fell trees indiscriminately and fish from any water body. But today, you could even be arrested for doing some of these things in some places!{ Interestingly, the same law(1300 BCE given) you are castigating already advocated Natural Resources Conservation!!} At those times, it was normal, things were generally primitive and labor-intensive meaning no matter how many people exploited these things there could be no issue of extinction or ecological imbalance but as technology began to advance and mass production became possible, restrictions on these practices became necessary!

Corollary? Consider history in the context of its epoch, not yours!

Scholar8200:


Certain practices suited the realities of the era in which they were practised, as things change, technology advances and civilisation progresses, some of such practices either metamorphose or are totally abandoned.
The modern day employer and employee relationship is one of such metamorphosed practices. Some similarities are:
1. An employee's time for a particular period of the day is bought hence that time will be used only for the employer's purposes ;
2. Except in idle times, an employee needs the approval of the employer before embarking on personal agenda within the time bought;
3. The employee offers his skills and time for use of the employer and hopes the latter accepts his offer.
4. There are some outsourcing firms that accumulates such employees and sends them out to their clients as the demand arises in exchange for a fee paid not to the employee but to the outsourcing firm (these firms may get jumbo fee and pay peanuts to the employees)

For one who lived around 1300 BCE, the practise above will be unacceptable! The labour-intensive situation then meant you had to be sure of your work force unlike the high labour turnover recorded in some places today, focus was labour security. Today, given the advancement in technology and the continual redundance of human labour,focus is job security.

There was a time when you could hunt down any animal and use firewood lavishly and fell trees indiscriminately and fish from any water body. But today, you could even be arrested for doing some of these things in some places!{ Interestingly, the same law(1300 BCE given) you are castigating already advocated Natural Resources Conservation!!} At those times, it was normal, things were generally primitive and labor-intensive meaning no matter how many people exploited these things there could be no issue of extinction or ecological imbalance but as technology began to advance and mass production became possible, restrictions on these practices became necessary!

Corollary? Consider history in the context of its epoch, not yours!

The difference between me and you is that I see all these things for what they are but you are stuck in the ideas and conceptions of primitive Jews. You rely and accept the ideas and way of life of primitive Jews as something sacrosanct. These men that lived at that time and wrote down these things were living in a very different era from ours. Their culture should not be promoted and viewed as something spectacular because they used God(an idea they invented) to cover up for everything. Slavery was OK to them and there was their God giving out injunctions on how to go about it.

Morality did not come from any God. It came as a result of human experimentation and consensus, a lot of people used God as an enforcing mechanism but in reality it did not come from and God but Humans.

Jesus in the bible we are told gave a story of the good Samaritan that went out of his way to help another person. The Samaritan wasn't a Christian, he wasn't even a Jew. But he still did good, that is enough to show that morality didn't come from the bible God as the OP is trying to say. Were the ancient Jews killing, pillaging, raping and stealing from each other before Moses decided to drop the ten commandments from the mountain assuming the story was true? Were the ancient Egyptians doing same? Didn't they have an organized society?

The way you guys throw everything away in order to make the writings of ancient people that see nothing wrong in stoning their disobedient children to death for disobedience and drunkenness is actually ridiculous to me. The bible is the simply the expression, conception and reasoning of primitive men including their moral principles, you are supposed to accept the expression, conception and reasoning of 21st century humans and their moral principles not that of the primitive men.

dalaman:


The difference between me and you is that I see all these things for what they are but you are stuck in the ideas and conceptions of primitive Jews. You rely and accept the ideas and way of life of primitive Jews as something sacrosanct. These men that lived at that time and wrote down these things were living in a very different ear from ours. Their culture should not be promoted and viewed as something spectacular because they used God(and idea they invented) to cover up for everything. Slavery was OK to them and there was there God giving out injunctions on how to go about it.

Morality did not come from any God. It came as a result of human experimentation and consensus, a lot of people used God as an enforcing mechanism but in reality it did not come from and God but Humans.

Jesus in the bible we are told gave a story of the good Samaritan that went out of his way to help another person. The Samaritan wasn't a Christian, he wasn't even a Jew. But he still did good, that is enough to show that morality didn't come from the bible God as the OP is trying to say. Were the ancient Jews killing, pillaging, raping and stealing from each other before Moses decided to drop the ten commandments from the mountain assuming the story was true? Were the ancient Egyptians doing same? Didn't they have an organized society?

The way you guys throw everything away in order to make the writings of ancient people that see nothing wrong in stoning their disobedient children to death for disobedience and drunkenness is actually ridiculous to me. The bible is the simply the expression, conception and reasoning of primitive men including their moral principles, you are supposed to accept the expression, conception and reasoning of 21st century humans and their moral principles not that of the primitive men.

Noted.

Malvisguy212,just tell me one reason why god could allegedly say "thou shalt not kill" easily but refused to condemn slavery....instead,giving instructions of how much a human being should be worth,to be allowed to beat a slave near-death and escape justice if he/she didn't die within a couple of days,along with other inhumane "laws" ?

dalaman:


If it were Islam this shameless malvisguy22 will come and be splitting hairs and telling us how it is all wrong, but as long as it is christianity then he will find the weirdest of lies to explain away absurdities and craziness.

No, you get it wrong. I do rebuked Islamism on their own vises . Like:
Do you enjoy handling children?

Want to beat your wife?

How about some popcorn while you watch a beheading?

Visit sunny.




So we dealing with christain right now.

Scholar8200:
I recommend Jesus. Why? He transforms from inside out! Not just delivering Divine fiats but also enabling and empowering you do same sans struggling!

The signature of Jesus in the life of man is his conscience..

malvisguy212:
its a choice, you believe or you reject,you chose to reject God base on the OLD covenant ? Good for you .

I've been saying this for long and I will continue to say it:

The angel Lucifer fell and became Satan (“adversary”) due to his desire to supplant God. This was Lucifer’s single-minded obsession. He not only rejected God by attempting to supplant Him, but he urged humans to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God for her own self-fulfilment:

Genesis 3:1-5
He said to the woman, “Did God actually
say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the
garden’?” And the woman said to the
serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the
trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that
is in the midst of the garden, neither
shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the
serpent said to the woman, “You will not
surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” .

LET US ANALYSED THIS:
The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s
statements, then, contradict God’s
statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.

This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to
make statements in the first place, so
God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to
have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self.

This satanic deception appeals strongly
to atheists as it bolsters two of their
desired delusions:
1 absolute autonomy: being free to do as they please, and
2 the lack of ultimate accountability:
there are no eternal consequences for
doing as they please.

The fool say there is no God ,he is not a fool because he is an atheist , but he is a fool because he think he can get awy with his bad moral behaviour, he think God will not notice his sin .

Repeating same thing over and over again.

dalaman:


It's actually worse. Those that practice slavery today know there are doing a bad thing so they hide their business away and conduct it in the dark. Your God saw nothing wrong with people buying and owning each other as slaves.

in other word, it is good for you , this people had died in starvation rather than work for there master ? Good for you.

Delusiongirl20:



Repeating same thing over and over again.

yes, I will repeat it over and over again till you are seth free.

malvisguy212:
in other word, it is good for you , this people had died in starvation rather than work for there master ? Good for you.

The African slave trade was perpetrated by christians who got their inspiration from the bible. The first slave ship that left the African coast with slaves to England in 1562 was called the "The Good Ship Jesus".

davien:
Malvisguy212,just tell me one reason why god could allegedly say "thou shalt not kill" easily but refused to condemn slavery....instead,giving instructions of how much a human being should be worth,to be allowed to beat a slave near-death and escape justice if he/she didn't die within a couple of days,along with other inhumane "laws" ?

the king James translated "thou shall not kill" but the original Hebrew translated it you shall not kill" as an atheist , you are not qualify to know what this text mean even some believers may not.

like English, Hebrew, the language in which most of the Old Testament was written, uses different words for intentional vs. unintentional killing. The verse translated "Thou shalt not kill" in the KJV translation, is translated "You shall not murder"in MODERN translations -because these translations represents the REAL meaning of the Hebrew text. The Bible in Basic English translates the phrase, "Do not put anyone to death without cause."
The Hebrew word used here is ratsach,
which nearly always refers to intentionally killing without cause (unless indicated otherwise by CONTEXT). Hebrew law recognized accidental killing as not punishable. In fact, specific cities were designated as "cities of refuge," so that an unintentional killer could flee to escape retribution. The Hebrew word for "kill" in this instance is not ratsach,
but nakah, which can refer to either
premeditated or unintentional killing,
depending upon CONTEXT. Other Hebrew words also can refer to killing.

The punishment for murder was the death sentence. However, to be convicted,there needed to be at least two eyewitnesses. The Bible also
prescribes that people have a right to
defend themselves against attack and
use deadly force if necessary.

Now the question is,IS GOD KILLING JUSTIFY ?
To answer the question whether God
breaks His own commandments, we
need to determine if God committed
murder (i.e., killed people without cause)
The Bible is quite clear that God has
killed people directly (the most
prominent example being the flood) and indirectly (ordered peoples to be killed). If God ordered or participated in the killing of innocent people, then He would be guilty of murder.

So do your research and bring evidence were God kill without a caused.

dalaman:


The African slave trade was perpetrated by christians who got their inspiration from the bible. The first slave ship that left the African coast with slaves to England in 1562 was called the "The Good Ship Jesus".

did Jesus command us to even revenge talkless of own a slave ? Those who fight and kill for Jesus are not following the teaching of Jesus.

malvisguy212:
the king James translated "thou shall not kill" but the original Hebrew translated it you shall not kill" as an atheist , you are not qualify to know what this text mean even some believers may not.

like English, Hebrew, the language in which most of the Old Testament was written, uses different words for intentional vs. unintentional killing. The verse translated "Thou shalt not kill" in the KJV translation, is translated "You shall not murder"in MODERN translations -because these translations represents the REAL meaning of the Hebrew text. The Bible in Basic English translates the phrase, "Do not put anyone to death without cause."
The Hebrew word used here is ratsach,
which nearly always refers to intentionally killing without cause (unless indicated otherwise by CONTEXT). Hebrew law recognized accidental killing as not punishable. In fact, specific cities were designated as "cities of refuge," so that an unintentional killer could flee to escape retribution. The Hebrew word for "kill" in this instance is not ratsach,
but nakah, which can refer to either
premeditated or unintentional killing,
depending upon CONTEXT. Other Hebrew words also can refer to killing.

The punishment for murder was the death sentence. However, to be convicted,there needed to be at least two eyewitnesses. The Bible also
prescribes that people have a right to
defend themselves against attack and
use deadly force if necessary.

Now the question is,IS GOD KILLING JUSTIFY ?
To answer the question whether God
breaks His own commandments, we
need to determine if God committed
murder (i.e., killed people without cause)
The Bible is quite clear that God has
killed people directly (the most
prominent example being the flood) and indirectly (ordered peoples to be killed). If God ordered or participated in the killing of innocent people, then He would be guilty of murder.

So do your research and bring evidence were God kill without a caused.

Did you bother reading my post?..
I asked why it was so easy to give laws against murder and yet so hard to do the same for slavery?

truthman2012:


Exactly so - ''QUESTION God's statement, CONTRADICT God's statement and urge REBELLION against God''.

The atheists have soft spot for islam, yet they say their is no God, is allahh not a god?

There is a meeting point for atheism and islam as the deity that is responsible for atheists not believing in God is the one who is also responsible for muslims believing in false god.

you are absolutely correct.

davien:
Did you bother reading my post?..
I asked why it was so easy to give laws against murder and yet so hard to do the same for slavery?

read the thread , we provide verse that indicate God provide law to guide this slaves in the bible.

malvisguy212:
yes, I will repeat it over and over again till you are seth free.

The Abrahamic religions don't teach their sheep to live & let live. They teach them to make sure everyone lives like them, deluded & blind.

Dear Religious People,

If you left the rest of us to live our lives in peace, we might not call out your stupid beliefs, but you don't.

See this guy snaking around

The question is not whether or not god has laws about how to manage slaves.
The question is why does god not condemn Slavery.

"slavery was initiated by the slave" chai

Redlyn:
See this guy snaking around

The question is not whether or not god has laws about how to manage slaves.
The question is why does god not condemn Slavery.

"slavery was initiated by the slave" chai

malvisguy212:
did Jesus command us to even revenge talkless of own a slave ? Those who fight and kill for Jesus are not following the teaching of Jesus.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34

dalaman:


"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34

I will not bother myself explaining this to you, every christians and even non christian know the meaning.

Redlyn:
See this guy snaking around

The question is not whether or not god has laws about how to manage slaves.
The question is why does god not condemn Slavery.

"slavery was initiated by the slave" chai

davien.
The slavery of the past few centuries was often based on skin colour. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings, the truth is slavery in this era was because of racism and the bible condemned racism. The Bible condemns race- based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27).

One thing for sure, the bible condemned man stealing which is what happened in Africa. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders,who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is condemned by God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death:

“Anyone who kidnaps another
and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to
death” ( Exodus 21:16).

Now is this not what happened in Africa during the times of slavery ? Man stealing? The bible condemned it . Slave mention in liviticus was because of poverty.and law was given to guide this slaves.

malvisguy212:
davien.
The slavery of the past few centuries was often based on skin colour. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings, the truth is slavery in this era was because of racism and the bible condemned racism. The Bible condemns race- based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27).

One thing for sure, the bible condemned man stealing which is what happened in Africa. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders,who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is condemned by God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death:

“Anyone who kidnaps another
and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to
death” ( Exodus 21:16).

Now is this not what happened in Africa during the times of slavery ? Man stealing? The bible condemned it . Slave mention in liviticus was because of poverty.and law was given to guide this slaves.

Did you realize Foreigners could pay the "thieves" without any knowledge of them not being slaves?

Again,why not just throw out slavery, why the run around?

malvisguy212:
I will not bother myself explaining this to you, every christians and even non christian know the meaning.

And the meaning is?

davien:
Did you realize Foreigners could pay the "thieves" without any knowledge of them not being slaves?

Again,why not just throw out slavery, why the run around?

what are the law guiding the slaves in this past centuries ?why are you guys chose to remain like this ? I do not deny slavery in the bible , but this slavery is different from nowadays own , the slavery in the bible was due to poverty, the Jews cannot die in starvation the op was not even talking about slavery.

Psalm 68:6
God sets the lonely in families, he leads
out the prisoners with singing; but the
rebellious live in a sun-scorched land

malvisguy212:
what are the law guiding the slaves in this past centuries ?why are you guys chose to remain like this ? I do not deny slavery in the bible , but this slavery is different from nowadays own , the slavery in the bible was due to poverty, the Jews cannot die in starvation the op was not even talking about slavery.

Psalm 68:6
God sets the lonely in families, he leads
out the prisoners with singing; but the
rebellious live in a sun-scorched land

Where is it written inside the bible that all the slavery was due to poverty?

dalaman:


Where is it written inside the bible that all the slavery was due to poverty?

Hebrews commonly became slaves through poverty
Leviticus 25:35
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and
fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a
stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee

Slavery was allow in order to pay off
debt or provide a basic subsistence. God did not intend for Israel to have poverty:
Deuteronomy 15:4
4 But there will be no poor among you;
for the Lord will bless you in the land
that the Lord your God is giving you for
an inheritance to possess

A poor man could sell himself to a richer man if there was famine and the poor man had no way to provide for himself.

malvisguy212:
Hebrews commonly became slaves through poverty
Leviticus 25:35
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and
fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a
stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee

Slavery was allow in order to pay off
debt or provide a basic subsistence. God did not intend for Israel to have poverty:
Deuteronomy 15:4
4 But there will be no poor among you;
for the Lord will bless you in the land
that the Lord your God is giving you for
an inheritance to possess

A poor man could sell himself to a richer man if there was famine and the poor man had no way to provide for himself.

Why do you keep lying? I asked you to show me any bible verse that says that all the slavery conducted was because the people were poor.

You brought a verse that has nothing at all to do with it. Lets look at the verse from a clearer translation.

Leviticus 25:35New International Version (NIV)

35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.

Again , where does it state that slavery was because of poverty. It says you can buy and sell slaves, nothing about poverty was mentioned. It remains your own prevarication.