babafemi1000:

May I state that I'm not against speaking in tongues. [s]I just don't believe, according to 1 Cor 12:30 that every believer speaks in tongues[/s]

sportsmaster:


Remove the "bold" from your mind

-- I refuse to remove the bold because it is founded in the scriptures.

mark 16: 15-17:- and the signs shall follow them that believe;in my name they shall cast out demons,speak with new tongues.

I have witnessed people demonstrate all the signs listed in Mark 16:15-19


-- you may have witnessed people demonstrating all the gifts yeah? Well the bible doesn't say all people have to have all the gifts.


In acts 2 All the 120 disciples spoke with tongues.


Acts 10, all of them peter preached to in the house of cornelius spoke with tongues.

Acts 19:The folks Paul laid his hands on spoke with tongues.

The Church at Corinth too all spoke with tongues.

-- These signs were the doing of the holy ghost at the time. He used this as evidence. It is at his discretion. Let's not try to develop some spiritual formula here

1cor14:18:-Paul tells them he speaks with tongues more that all of them.

For paul to have said it,it means they all spoke with tongues.but he speaks with
tongues more than them.

-- That's not what the bible implies. It implies that he had the gift and he could use it more than them (them means not all but those who had the same gift)

1cor14:23:- if the whole church come together into one place and ALL speak with tongues.

-- Look at the scripture in full. It didn't stop at "all speak in tongues". Paul was teaching them to be orderly.

Eph6:18-19:-Paul admonished all of us to always pray in the Spirit.

Praying in the Spirit is praying in tongues.

--Praying in the spirit is not always praying in tongues. It simply means pray according to the will of God. Didn't Jesus pray in the spirit? Did you hear that he prayed in tongues?

See 1cor14:14.

paul admonishes all believers to pray in tongues at all times.
For him to have said this it means all believers can pray in tongues.

-- This is not true.

sportsmaster:

you did disappoint me .
Open your bible to 1cor14:14:-
"If i pray in the tongues,My Spirit prays."
is this in your bible.

-- You seem fond of referencing from incomplete bible verses. Which way na my guy?

(1Co 14:14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

This is the complete verse. It doesn't say praying in tongues is always the same as praying in the spirit

Please always look at the whole picture.

Then read Eph6:18-19.
praying always with all prayer and supplication in THE SPIRIT.

Praying in tongues is praying in the Spirit. .
It clear and plain in front of you.

-- Ephesians 6: 18 Praying always, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto, with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Now this says nothing to support your claim. Like I said, praying in the spirit does not always mean praying in tongues. It means praying according to the will of God

Last semester when i went on evangelism,
i made sure that i got everyone that i preached the Gospel to filled with the Holy and speak with tongues.

-- Ah, what do you mean you made sure? It is not up to you but up to the holy spirit oo.. "I made sure" here already faults your claim and the supposed results

If you still dont agree i can no longer waste my time.

---- I make no apologies for sticking to scriptures. I keep saying "look at the whole picture and not just the fragments".

Jeromejnr:


Okay so for those that receive the baptism according to you and don't speak in tongues, how will they know they have received?

Will they go and say "okay let me see if I can heal the sick or use the spirit of faith or work a miracle*?

Will they have to try one and see if it doesn't work and then try another one and if that doesn't work also they try another one?

Won't that be unfair? While the folks that have the gift of tongues know instantly they have been baptised the others would have to keep trying and trying to see which gift they have gotten.

babafemi1000:



One does not need to go about testing gifts trying to see if they have received the holy ghost. There's no need to be looking for a sign to prove to others that one has the holy ghost.

You ask "what's the evidence that one has the holy spirit"? Well, a changed life perhaps, exhibiting fruits of the spirit (love, joy, peace, etc..)?

Remember this verse "walk in the spirit and you will not fulfil the desires of the flesh? Is that not evidence enough?

We are no longer in the days of the apostles where the sovereign holy ghost decided to use tongues as a sign to unbelievers and israel. 1 Corinthians 12 applies more to us today, being that the manifestation of the spirit is in various miraculous gifts.

Please note that I support desiring earnestly the best gifts as paul advised, which may include speaking in tongues and prophesying. I also believe in praying in tongues as the spirit gives utterance

Jeromejnr:


No problem.

But if you will, I will advise that you get a book or message online:

Why speak in tongues by Kenneth Hagin.

He goes into much detail and explanation of the scriptures.

babafemi1000:



Thanks jerome for sharing.

I've had my fair share of kenneth hagin and co. I'm of the opinion that "a little yeast spreads through the whole batch of dough" until everything is spoilt.

This means that these guys are fond of infusing a little error into their teaching here and there until everybody is confused. I'd rather stay away from all their teaching and stick to using scriptures, praying that God would teach me things.

This is not to say that we cannot learn a thing or two from other believers, but for kenneth hagin and co, mehn I'd rather waka pass.

Let's let the holy spirit lead us into all truth. I'm not perfect in putting him first but I understand now more than ever that I have to. There's a lot of deception out there mehn..

babafemi1000:
I'm really glad that all the posters shared their views distinctly and without any bashing or batter. It's been a healthy session so far, in agreement or disagreement. This shows we have a level of maturity.

I'm open to other views but please let's quote scriptures within context for easy understanding. It's easy to extract a scripture and make it buttress our points but when examined in it's full context it says otherwise.

In the end we're all brothers and sisters if we're born of the spirit of God.

babafemi1000:


This is unmistakably kenneth hagin snr.

Jerome, I think he's in error. Most of his points, if not all, have been used by yourself and others here on this thread but each time I have used scriptures to refute them.


Jesus received the holy ghost after baptism. Did he speak in tongues? No.

How then did people know he had the holy ghost, if it were necessary to prove it to them? God confirmed it from heaven.

I dare say speaking in tongues is not the only evidence that we have received the holy spirit. The spirit may have decided to use it as such at that time, but it doesn't always have to be the case.

We don't have to always look to establish doctrines and patterns in the bible and apply them to our circumstances. The spirit is dynamic in his ways.

Jeromejnr:


Nope. This isn't Kenneth Hagin. But Donald Gee.

And you misconstrued some scriptures you quoted up there.

Jeromejnr:


Nope. This isn't Kenneth Hagin. But Donald Gee.

And you misconstrued some scriptures you quoted up there.

ABDULADINO:
Pls Op, Can you point out any errors in the book Kenneth Hagin wrote on why believers should speak in tongues, if i may ask?

I consider his points and i find no error, any explanation is welcome. I am open to learning.

babafemi1000:


Abduladino! Wow this name sounds like you wanna be ronaldinho..

Please I'd like you to carefully read through the thread please, points have been made that refutes wrong teaching especially that "you must speak in tongues immediately when you receive the holy ghost"

Scriptures have been quoted and I'm sure you won't be lost when you read them.

ABDULADINO:
Lol, just a username. On the contrary i wanna be like Jesus.
I have and so far i haven't seen any concrete explanation from you as to why hagin's teaching is erroneous. You could do well to paste your explanations here for me to see and comprehend.

babafemi1000:


You don't need an initial sign to prove that you've received the holy ghost. The best sign is a life of christ, bearing the fruits of the spirit (is it not the same holy spirit?)

Tongues were a sign to the unbeliever and also of acceptance of the gentiles. That the jews may know that God had accepted the gentiles too! It was a matter of his discretion how he wanted to prove to people. That's why Jesus showed signs to people in his day, cos there were skeptics everywhere.

-- Acts 9:17-20 did paul speak in tongues as evidence that he received the holy ghost? Even paul? Did he not receive the holy ghost immediately?

So why look for doctrine where there is none?

Want to speak in tongues but no interpreter? Then speak to yourself and to God. That's to pray in tongues.

There's no scripture in this thread that I have misconstrued. It's as easy as understanding an english exam comprehension passage, where you're asked questions about the whole scenario and not just bits and pieces of it.

babafemi1000:


Okay lemme say this. I'm not well versed in kenneth hagin's teaching on the subject. I'm just using scriptures to support what I've posted so far.

May I ask what kenneth hagin teaches that you seem to agree with?

Jeromejnr:


Actually, the truth is there are some scriptures one can never understand as you ought to if
One has not experienced it first hand themselves.

Example: where Jesus said "this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting, and God chastising His children (when people read this they think they know how God chastises His children , but when you walk with Him some you will understand it was not as you taught).

In my Christian walk, not only mine, I have discovered that tongues is one of the top 5 most important tools God gave His children.

Majority of the services O have been to anyone that came up for hands to be paid on for baptism, started speaking the language. (That is after they have been taught from the word on the issue and can then receive it by faith).

If one has not spoken I'm tongues, then he can never understand the charge given by Jude. " beloved keep building yourself on your most Holy Faith, praying in the Holy Ghost". And that was a charge to all the body of believers. And for those with the experience of tongues, we know how how charged our faith becomes after a series of prayers.

How can one pray in the Holy Ghost anytime? How does the Spirit help us in intercession with groanings that cannot be uttered? For we no not what we should pray for as we ought to.

And of you ask anyone that spoke in tongues, he would tell you that it's like some words are welling up in the belly and the spirit groaning on the inside looking for how to express the deep longings of the heart.

David0:



And I am one of those who believes speaking in tongues is not making noises calling it tongue. Speaking in tongue is actually speaking in different languages.

babafemi1000:


I don't dispute speaking or praying in tongues (of men or of angels). I'm all for it.

What I dispute is people saying that when you receive the holy ghost, you must speak in tongues as evidence! This is not true. So many evidences abound of one's having the holy ghost, not only tongues. Fruits of the spirit? Charity? A more excellent way? 1 Cor 13: 1-13.

Please pray in tongues and speak too, by all means. It's good!

Secondly, praying in the holy ghost means to pray according to the will of God. Jesus prayed. He prayed in the spirit too! Did he speak in tongues? Did paul when he received?

One's personal experience, while good, don't trump scriptures. Let's look to scriptures and not experiences.

It's just like someone who tithes and sees blessings and then uses it as proof to support tithing whereas scriptures don't impose tithing on us anymore

sportsmaster:


Dont misread.I suggest you grab a greek manuscript.

1cor 14:26 How is then brethen?when ye come together every one of you hath a psalm,hath a doctrine,hath tongue,hath revelation,hath an interpretation.let all things be done unto edifying

1cor 12: if you had patiently read vs4-7 you will understand it perfectly.
Dont take out of context.

Paul started a discussion in 1cor 12,you should read everything in book in context of 1cor12 until he switches the context.he switched in chapter 13.
take note of that.

Vs 4 mentions the gifts.
Vs5 and Vs 6 explains that there are different ministries,and different operations in the diversities of gifts.

Vs 7 says "the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal".

The manifestation of the Spirit in this context is talking about the Gifts.

It simply means the Manifestation or rather the ability to manifest these Gifts is given to every believer for the common Good.

Read vs 28,29,30..
He explained ministry gifts.
This should tell you that he wasn't talking about the gifts,he was explaining the ministries in the gifts.

Are Apostles,prophets,teachers gifts of the Spirit.? NO!.
These are ministry Gifts not the regular gifts like (tongues,interpretation,prophesy,word of knowledge,wisdon,discerning of spirits,faith,miracles,healings).

What paul was explaining the diversities of the gifts in ministry.

In a Spirit-filled church,you will notice that Some people can function better in some Gifts than others,
that does not mean that the others dont have the same Gifts.
We all same Gifts,same Spirit.

Lemme give you pratical examples.
Refer to the Acts of the Apostles.
Peter did function with all the Gifts of the Spirit.
Paul did too.
Philip did too.

Paul functioned with all the gifts and he stated in 1cor12:7 that the manifestation of the Spirit to every believer to profit withal.

Paul cannot contradict himself.

So one believer cannot have a gift the other does not have.

Jeromejnr:


Yes sir,

Paul spoke in tongues when he received. "I speak in tongues more than you all".

And not everyone's detailed experiences has to be recorded in the scriptures. But we see that everytime hands were laid on people they spoke in tongues. Every time and everywhere.

Paul did not speak in tongues when he received the holy ghost. Perhaps later he got the gift. But when hands were laid on him, the holy ghost came upon him but nowhere is it recorded that he spoke in tongues as proof. Jesus too! Even philip sef and lydia, what about the ethiopian?... They received the holy ghost but didn't speak in tongues immediately. So one shouldn't be expecting another to speak in tongues just because hands have been laid upon them. Let's try to be led instead and stop developing formulas. Nor be mathematics na...

When a man was to be healed of leprosy, the healer tells them to go and bathe in a river. Does this now mean that's the only way to heal leprosy?



There are some things writing that are just assumed that we know what they talked about.

But again, scripture says "we don't know what we should pray for as we ought to, but the Spirit helps us with groanings which cannot be uttered"

Well, how does the Spirit help us pray with groanings which cannot be uttered?

Because just praying according to the will of God in English is not a groaning and the English language can definitely be uttered.



What's your take on this?

Thanks for asking what my take is. It shows you're willing to learn what you may have missed or misconstrued. God bless you

It helps to pray and speak in tongues. Sure. I agree. But let's not impose it on people based on our incomplete understanding of happenings in the acts in scriptures concerning tongues. JMAN05 has something to say too, kindly check his recent comment

Tongues is no more a gift that all are expected to manifest than is the gift of prophecy, healing, or miracles. Yet many teach that tongues is the one gift that is for all. Some say that one is not filled with the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues; others believe that only those who speak in tongues are saved. The Bible never says so. One must decide whether to believe God or men

IdeeEsperanza:
Why do some churches (doctrines) insist that speaking/praying in tongues is a must? I know of a sister who told me that whenever the choristers commit an offence, they are punished by asking to praying in tongues for an hour. What's your take on this?