Jeromejnr:


There is a difference between receiving the Spirit at salvation and being baptized with the Spirit after salvation(for power to witness).

John 20:22 "So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Here the disciples were what you call born again.

But later on:

Acts 1:4 "Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

also:
Luke 24:49 "You are witnesses of these things. "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

later on:

Acts 2:4 "And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues,..." Not some but all.

Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17“ ‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people....

"Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

So what do we see Peter told them here. First repent and be baptised in the Name for forgiveness of sins and..

then (a key word).

you will receive the gift... Well, what gift?

What the people saw in the disciples of Jesus that made them think they were drunk.

Now listen to this:

Acts 19:3 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."…

"Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.…

After they became born again Paul laid hands on them and they received the Spirit and Spoke with tongues. After being born again. All of them, not some of them.

Also:
Acts 8: When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

Well, do you lay hands on people to get born again? and what was the tangible thing that the Sorcerer saw happen that made him want to buy the gift? And we also see they had already been born again before hands were laid on them for the baptism of the Spirit.

Finally:

John 7:39 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

When was He glorified? after He ascended into heaven and as a result the disciples received the gift.

The scriptures abound. All we need to do is stop listening to man made doctrines.

I shall ask you just one question "just one", What makes up Salvation?

Jeromejnr:


The question you need to ask yourself is, have you received what is called the baptism of the Spirit, if you've have not, then why don't you try it and see you will speak in tongues or not?.

BTW, there is a difference btw the ministry gift of tongues which comes with interpretation for edification of the church and the prayer language tongues, which is spoken to God alone.

every believer has the Holy spirit but not every is filled with the Spirit.
Being filled with spirit is a continous act,or better still a demonstration of the the things of the Spirit.


Read Eph5:18-19:-
Being filled with the Spirit is to Put the things of the spirit to use.
Firstly, tongues go only to God ,the interpretation is for man.
Either you speak in your church.on the pulpit,in your house,in your workplace.
The tongues goes to God.

1cor14:2He who speaks in tongues speaks not unto men but unto God for no man understands him,howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.

Anywhere you speak in tongues.you speak to God,then you give the interpretation to people(the church) not GOD.

starlingslimnet:
I shall ask you just one question "just one", What makes up Salvation?

Rom 10:9: "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confessing it with your mouth.

sportsmaster:

every believer has the Holy spirit but not every is filled with the Spirit.
Being filled with spirit is a continous act.

Read Eph5:18-19:-
Being filled with the Spirit is to Put the things of the spirit to use.
Firstly, tongues go only to God ,the interpretation is for man.
Either you speak in your church.on the pulpit,in your house,in your workplace.
The tongues goes to God.

1cor14:2He who speaks in tongues speaks not unto men but unto God for no man understands him,howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.

Anywhere you speak in tongues.you speak to God,then you give the interpretation to people(the church) not GOD.

True. I agree with you.

Jeromejnr:


Rom 10:9: "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confessing it with your mouth.

I asked you, "what makes up Salvation" and not "What is Salvation" or "How to be saved". So I will ask you again, 'What makes up Salvation?"

starlingslimnet:
I shall ask you just one question "just one", What makes up Salvation?

salvation is simply God gave me his Spirit.
Every believer has the Holy Spirit

starlingslimnet:
I asked you, "what makes up Salvation" and not "What is Salvation" or "How to be saved". So I will ask you again, 'What makes up Salvation?"

Mr. Man, what is your point?

Jesus dying on the cross and been raised up for our justification. And the sealing of our spirits by the Holy Spirit.

sportsmaster:


salvation is simply God gave me his Spirit.
Every believer has the Holy Spirit

And the Spirit gives Gift according to his will....

Jeromejnr:


Mr. Man, what is your point?

Jesus dying on the cross and been raised up for our justification. And the sealing of our spirits by the Holy Spirit.

My point brother is, To understand anything about the Holy Spirit you must understand what make up Salvation. And this, I asked you.So do well in telling me what make up Salvation or better watch and learn as people discuss on these things instead of quoting Scriptures which the understanding to the context depends on what make up Salvation.

starlingslimnet:
My point brother is, To understand anything about the Holy Spirit you must understand what make up Salvation. And this, I asked you.So do well in telling me what make up Salvation or better watch and learn as people discuss on these things instead of quoting Scriptures which the understanding to the context depends on what make up Salvation.

Please what does speaking in tongues have to do with salvation? Whether you speak in tongues or not does not depend on whether you go to heaven or not.

Speaking in tongues or baptism of power is for enablement in ministry, to help live out the Godly life and to also help in prayers.

Jeromejnr:


Please what does speaking in tongues have to do with salvation? Whether you speak in tongues or not does not depend on whether you go to heaven or not.

Speaking in tongues or baptism of power is for enablement in ministry, to help live out the Godly life and to also help in prayers.

Which Bible are you reading bro that equate Speaking in tongues to Baptism of The Holy Spirit? I will advice you to study the Bible afresh learn from it and Teach what you learn not what you are taught by a pastor. Speaking in tongues in reality have nothing to do with Salvation according to the Bible but according to you and your fellows it has all things to do with it.So to clarify this we need to know what makes up Salvation and for this I will give you a short verse of the Bible filled with great insight on Salvation Acts 2:38.

Besides am Olusanya and You?

starlingslimnet:
Which Bible are you reading bro that equate Speaking in tongues to Baptism of The Holy Spirit? I will advice you to study the Bible afresh learn from it and Teach what you learn not what you are taught by a pastor. Speaking in tongues in reality have nothing to do with Salvation according to the Bible but according to you and your fellows it has all things to do with it.So to clarify this we need to know what makes up Salvation and for this I will give you a short verse of the Bible filled with great insight on Salvation Acts 2:38.

Besides am Olusanya and You?

Who told you I was taught that by my Pastor? Read what I told you earlier on and go through the scriptures of the bible. Anything time there was a baptism in the Spirit there was speaking in tongues.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God."

It has nothing to do with being born again. Although one needs to be born again to be able to access it. Just like being a Teacher or prophet or being able to prophesy has nothing to do with salvation/being born again.

I am Jerome.

Jeromejnr:


Who told you I was taught that by my Pastor? Read what I told you earlier on and go through the scriptures of the bible. Anything time there was a baptism in the Spirit there was speaking in tongues.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God."

It has nothing to do with being born again. Although one needs to be born again to be able to access it. Just like being a Teacher or prophet or being able to prophesy has nothing to do with salvation/being born again.

I am Jerome.

Well Jerome is good to meet you.

But I will ask you a question "just a question" were the '3000' that believe Peter on the day of Pentecost Baptized with the Holy Spirit or not?

starlingslimnet:

Well Jerome is good to meet you.

But I will ask you a question "just a question" were the '3000' that believe Peter on the day of Pentecost Baptized with the Holy Spirit or not?

It depends on what your own definition of baptism of the Holy Spirit is.

Jeromejnr:


It depends on what your own definition of baptism of the Holy Spirit is.

Let me ask then just a question "Just one" What is the Biblical explanation of Baptism of the Holy Spirit"

starlingslimnet:
Let me ask then just a question "Just one" What is the Biblical explanation of Baptism of the Holy Spirit"

Receiving the Holy Spirit is to be born again. John 20:22.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is to be endued with power for ministry and godly life. Acts 1:8.

but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:5). This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4)

Lk 24:49 “And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Jeromejnr:


Receiving the Holy Spirit is to be born again. John 20:22.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is to be endued with power for ministry and godly life. Acts 1:8.

but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:5). This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4)

Lk 24:49 “And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high.”

I think there is no point in pursuing this with you.....since you can't see you are saying the same thing. To be baptized is to receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should be baptized,which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

This is after they have been baptized because of their believe in Christ. Apostle Peter said "They receive" meaning Being Baptized is Receiving the Holy Spirit.

The thing is I don't like to quote Scripture upon Scriptures cos it's not necessary to Teach the Truth. See for yourself you have made your own distinction between Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Receiving the Spirit of which the Bible made no distinction cos they are one thing.

What I can say to you is "Go and study"

starlingslimnet:
I think there is no point in pursuing this with you.....since you can't see you are saying the same thing. To be baptized is to receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should be baptized,which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

This is after they have been baptized because of their believe in Christ. Apostle Peter said "They receive" meaning Being Baptized is Receiving the Holy Spirit.

The thing is I don't like to quote Scripture upon Scriptures cos it's not necessary to Teach the Truth. See for yourself you have made your own distinction between Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Receiving the Spirit of which the Bible made no distinction cos they are one thing.

What I can say to you is "Go and study"

Don't be ignorant Mr. Man.

There is a diff BTW baptism in water, baptism of the Holy Spirit and Receiving the Holy Spirit.

Don't allow pride keep you from seeing the truth. Can you please tell us when the disciples became born again? If you feel you can be puffed up with knowledge.

So speaking in tongues is only for some special people? I thought by now this erroneous doctrine had been done away with but anyway.

The word baptism or baptizo means to be immersed totally in something. When you are baptised in water, you are immersed in water...when you are born again you were baptized into the name of Jesus and family of God...when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit, you are immersed in His power.

Go and do a study on that.

Jeromejnr:


Don't be ignorant Mr. Man.

There is a diff BTW baptism in water, baptism of the Holy Spirit and Receiving the Holy Spirit.

Don't allow pride keep you from seeing the truth. Can you please tell us when the disciples became born again? If you feel you can be puffed up with knowledge.

So speaking in tongues is only for some special people? I thought by now this erroneous doctrine had been done away with but anyway.

The word baptism or baptizo means to be immersed totally in something. When you are baptised in water, you are immersed in water...when you are born again you were baptized into the name of Jesus and family of God...when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit, you are immersed in His power.

Go and do a study on that.

hahahaha...... Let's leave it at that.....hahahaha lwkmd

When Christ said 'I have a Baptism to be baptized with" was he dipped into suffering or immersed into suffering according to your definition of Baptized and Baptism?

I will Let it slip off......lwkmd...

starlingslimnet:
hahahaha...... Let's leave it at that.....hahahaha lwkmd

Hehe. Na you first ask for scriptures na, so I gave you.

And instead of you bringing scriptures you were giving us your own concept or opinion.

Jeromejnr:


Hehe. Na you first ask for scriptures na, so I gave you.

And instead of you bringing scriptures you were giving us your own concept or opinion.

See my modification and see for yourself

starlingslimnet:
hahahaha...... Let's leave it at that.....hahahaha lwkmd

When Christ said 'I have a Baptism to be baptized with" was he dipped into suffering or immersed into suffering according to your definition of Baptized and Baptism?

I will Let it slip off......lwkmd...

Well from that same verse when He said He had a cup to drink, did He drink out of the cup literally?
If you are smart enough, you should get the answer.

When John said Jesus will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire, did anyone undergo any literal fire?

Why was all this statements expressed as such? Is the meaning of the word baptism my definition or straight out of the original greek.?

907 baptízō – properly, "submerge" (Souter); hence, baptize, to immerse (literally, "dip under". 907 (baptízō) implies submersion ("immersion", in contrast to 472 /antéxomai ("sprinkle".

So what is wrong in saying He was to be immersed with sufferings? What did Paul mean by fellowship of His sufferings? Can you fellowship with someone's sufferings?. If by now you don't get my point, then you are a nut case.

May I state that I'm not against speaking in tongues. I just don't believe, according to 1 Cor 12:30 that every believer speaks in tongues.

Jeromejnr:


Well from that same verse when He said He had a cup to drink, did He drink out of the cup literally?
If you are smart enough, you should get the answer.

When John said Jesus will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire, did anyone undergo any literal fire?

Why was all this statements expressed as such? Is the meaning of the word baptism my definition or straight out of the original greek.?

907 baptízō – properly, "submerge" (Souter); hence, baptize, to immerse (literally, "dip under". 907 (baptízō) implies submersion ("immersion", in contrast to 472 /antéxomai ("sprinkle".

So what is wrong in saying He was to be immersed with sufferings? What did Paul mean by fellowship of His sufferings? Can you fellowship with someone's sufferings?. If by now you don't get my point, then you are a nut case.

Greek text are contextual read the context in Greek and see if you have not contradicted all you have been writing since.

starlingslimnet:
Greek text are contextual read the context in Greek and see if you have not contradicted all you have been writing since.

I have read it in context.

Please do us a favour and show the contradictions you talk about.

babafemi1000:
May I state that I'm not against speaking in tongues. I just don't believe, according to 1 Cor 12:30 that every believer speaks in tongues.

They do sir. All believers in scriptures that had hands laid on them all spoke in tongues. You can do a study yourself.

The scripture you pointed out is the ministry gift of speaking in tongues which comes with interpretation for the edification of the church. Not everyone possess that gift.

Jeromejnr:


I have read it in context.

Please do us a favour and show the contradictions you talk about.

In Greek context? if Yes.... then am through if you can't see the contradictions glaring

Jeromejnr:


They do sir. All believers in scriptures that had hands laid on them all spoke in tongues. You can do a study yourself.

The scripture you pointed out is the ministry gift of speaking in tongues which comes with interpretation for the edification of the church. Not everyone possess that gift.

Ministry gift? The gift of the holy ghost? They're one and the same. That the believers in acts who had hands laid upon them spoke in tongues doesn't mean that that's the only manifestation of the holy spirit. He could have moved them to heal the sick as he did them speak in tongues.

Secondly, @sportsmaster, I agree that we can pray to God in tongues, as the spirit gives us utterance. That's still the same as your "ministry gift", only that one is praying to God. After all, it is the same spirit na. This is what you call "being filled with the holy ghost".

We also studied and this is what we have found, not that we listened to some "man-made message" as you implied earlier.

Let's look at all these scriptures as a whole, and we'd see that there's no distinction between ministry gifts (in corinthians) and the gift of the holy ghost (in acts)

starlingslimnet:
In Greek context? if Yes.... then am through if you can't see the contradictions glaring

*facepalm*

Even if you don't have anything concrete to say, I give up man.

babafemi1000:


Ministry gift? The gift of the holy ghost? They're one and the same. That the believers in acts who had hands laid upon them spoke in tongues doesn't mean that that's the only manifestation of the holy spirit. He could have moved them to heal the sick as he did them speak in tongues.

Secondly, @sportsmaster, I agree that we can pray to God in tongues, as the spirit gives us utterance. That's still the same as your "ministry gift", only that one is praying to God. After all, it is the same spirit na. This is what you call "being filled with the holy ghost".

We also studied and this is what we have found, not that we listened to some "man-made message" as you implied earlier.

Let's look at all these scriptures as a whole, and we'd see that there's no distinction between ministry gifts (in corinthians) and the gift of the holy ghost (in acts)

So explain to us why those 120 people in the upper room. All spoke with tongues but but yet still feel its not for everyone?

Are they more special?

Jeromejnr:


So explain to us why those 120 people in the upper room. All spoke with tongues but but yet still feel its not for everyone?

Are they more special?

Can we question how God chooses to manifest himself to different people in different situations?

babafemi1000:


Can we question how God chooses to manifest himself to different people in different situations?

Okay so for those that receive the baptism according to you and don't speak in tongues, how will they know they have received?

Will they go and say "okay let me see if I can heal the sick or use the spirit of faith or work a miracle*?

Will they have to try one and see if it doesn't work and then try another one and if that doesn't work also they try another one?

Won't that be unfair? While the folks that have the gift of tongues know instantly they have been baptised the others would have to keep trying and trying to see which gift they have gotten.