Optimall:

Please enlighten me on the difference

I already explained why Christ is a mediator between the Father and mankind. Because of His incarnation that is becoming God and Man he united us to the Father since he is not only one with the Father but He is also one of us. That is why His Holy Sacrifice was perfect. An intercessor meanwhile is simply one who asks for a favor on behalf of someone eg you can interceed on someone's behalf to God.

Optimall:



Sorry but I'm not even a protestant.
A born Catholic.
Just not ok with the mess going inside the church,it's an eye sore!

They didn't fail,the protestants.
They were murdered.
In cold blood by the very people that profess to follow Jesus,your Catholic!
I abhor murderers,I just abhor them!

Pope John Paul 2 of Blessed memory apologised in front of the world for the sins of the children of the Catholic Church. Catholic teaching condemns all sin and the murder of Protestants was evil. However it is worth to point out that thousands of Catholics were also murdered by Protestants during the same period. Surely you must have heard of the Catholic martyrs of the English Reformation. The martyrs of Douai for example or St Thomas More or St Edmund Campion.

Papist:

Excuse me where did you read all this? Can you cite your sources please. You dont even know the name of the Council where. they supposedly made it ok to pray to Mary? Are you reffering to the Council where Mary was called Theotokos? Are you talking about the Council of Ephesus?

There is no just one source. I mostly got my info from the history channel and then other readings.

But anyway, what you reffered to there is the Third Ecumenical council, which was in the 5th century. And maybe as you know the concept of praying to Mary came as a result of a hymn which was written. Which was later accepted by the council. And later they brought up churches dedicated to Mary.

And all this debate of praying to Mary was done without scriptural backing o. But based on different assumptions. All this started because of misunderstanding of what Iraneaus said about Mary in the 2nd century.

Optimall:


God alone forgives sin,I still believe it. Unless otherwise stated!
Especially not when the pope tells who and who should be forgiven or not. Oops the same pope that tells who and who should be sold as slaves! Doesn't make sense
Your pope can see the heart but God does so he alone is the ultimate decider
Believe what you want!

I see where your problem is.

You believe Jesus lied when he said:

"Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."--John 20:23

And...

"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."--Matt 16:19

Whereas, Catholic believe he said the truth.

No surprise that an unbeliever should be at loggerheads with believers.

What has light to do with darkness?

Jeromejnr:


There is no just one source. I mostly got my info from the history channel and then other readings.

But anyway, what you reffered to there is the Third Ecumenical council, which was in the 5th century. And maybe as you know the concept of praying to Mary came as a result of a hymn which was written. Which was later accepted by the council. And later they brought up churches dedicated to Mary.

And all this debate of praying to Mary was done without scriptural backing o. But based on different assumptions. All this started because of misunderstanding of what Iraneaus said about Mary in the 2nd century.

Still can't cite your source.

Jeromejnr:


There is no just one source. I mostly got my info from the history channel and then other readings.

But anyway, what you reffered to there is the Third Ecumenical council, which was in the 5th century. And maybe as you know the concept of praying to Mary came as a result of a hymn which was written. Which was later accepted by the council. And later they brought up churches dedicated to Mary.

And all this debate of praying to Mary was done without scriptural backing o. But based on different assumptions. All this started because of misunderstanding of what Iraneaus said about Mary in the 2nd century.

History Channel is as reliable as wikipedia if not worse. Second no the prayer that you mean...the sub tuum praesidium? No it was not read at Ephesus. Also the Council of Ephesus was in response to the Nestorian heresy a heresy which threatened the divinity of Christ by regusing to call his mother Birth Giver of God aka Theotokos. And how exactly was St Irenaeus misunderstood?

Jeromejnr:


There is no just one source. I mostly got my info from the history channel and then other readings.

But anyway, what you reffered to there is the Third Ecumenical council, which was in the 5th century. And maybe as you know the concept of praying to Mary came as a result of a hymn which was written. Which was later accepted by the council. And later they brought up churches dedicated to Mary.

And all this debate of praying to Mary was done without scriptural backing o. But based on different assumptions. All this started because of misunderstanding of what Iraneaus said about Mary in the 2nd century.

Still can't cite your source(s).



Where is the proof that any of the 'sources' said what you claim?

Papist:

History Channel is as reliable as wikipedia if not worse. Second no the prayer that you mean...the sub tuum praesidium? No it was not read at Ephesus. Also the Council of Ephesus was in response to the Nestorian heresy a heresy which threatened the divinity of Christ by regusing to call his mother Birth Giver of God aka Theotokos. And how exactly was St Irenaeus misunderstood?

Forget all this ones. I don't have time to start getting into history.

The point is, is what you're doing commanded in the scriptures? I have seen majority twist the scripture to try to suit their claims.

Most Catholics just believe all these because they grew up that way. So even if the truth comes, its hard to accept. Instead they use scriptures that was given to them from the pulpit that has been twisted from generations past to try and defend their claims..

italo:


Still can't cite your source(s).



Where is the proof that any of the 'sources' said what you claim?

I can cite many, I just don't have time.

[quote author=italo post=37636320]

I see where your problem is.

You believe Jesus lied when he said:

"Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."--John 20:23

And...

"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."--Matt 16:19

Whereas, Catholic believe he said the truth.

No surprise that an unbeliever should be at loggerheads with believers.

What has light to do with darkness?
[/quote
Ah my brother you have successfully defended auricular confession using sola scriptura. Ah the irony.

Papist:

History Channel is as reliable as wikipedia if not worse. Second no the prayer that you mean...the sub tuum praesidium? No it was not read at Ephesus. Also the Council of Ephesus was in response to the Nestorian heresy a heresy which threatened the divinity of Christ by regusing to call his mother Birth Giver of God aka Theotokos. And how exactly was St Irenaeus misunderstood?

Mind you, you're arguing against Jeromejnr who would go as low as claiming the bible is from a heretical source, just to oppose the Catholic Church.

Keep that in mind.

If you need me to provide the quote, I will.

Now he considers the History Channel as his Bible...

When the History Channel supports Catholicism, you'll hear him scream "bible alone!"

He's just hear to oppose the Church, even if it means blaspheming

italo:


Mind you, you're arguing against Jeromejnr who would go as low as claiming the bible is from a heretical source, just to oppose the Catholic Church.

Keep that in mind.

If you need me to provide the quote, I will.

Now he considers the History Channel as his Bible...

When the History Channel supports Catholicism, you'll hear him scream "bible alone!"

He's just hear to oppose the Church, even if it means blaspheming

Hahaha. Italo. My guy.

You are welcome to the conversation.

You talk of history channel. Well, that was why I diverted the discussion back to the scriptures.

All I want right now is scriptural backing of all claims. Shikena.

italo:


Still can't cite your source.

Italo

I actually didn't know this was you. Ahh! For your sake I would have brought out the sources.

Jeromejnr:


I can cite many, I just don't have time.

Na lie!

italo:



Na lie!

BTW, I thought you were Jehovah Witness, why are you here?

Jeromejnr:


BTW, I thought you were Jehovah Witness, why are you here?

No surprise...

You also think the Bible is heretical.

You always think the wrong things.

italo:


No surprise...

You also think the Bible is heretical.

You always think the wrong things.

How na.

You're the one who doesn't believe the bible. You are afraid of the Truth.

No wonder when Jesus Himself brought the Truth, He was called a heretical teacher by the Pharisees.

Pharisees are those who stay too far from the Truth that they can't even see it.

Jeromejnr:


Hahaha. Italo. My guy.

You are welcome to the conversation.

You talk of history channel. Well, that was why I diverted the discussion back to the scriptures.

All I want right now is scriptural backing of all claims. Shikena.

Papist, what did I tell you?

Now he's back to the same scriptures he says is from a heretical source.



Jeromejnr, how can you ask for backing from a scripture you say is heretical?

italo:


Papist, what did I tell you?

Now he's back to the same scriptures he says is from a heretical source.



Jeromejnr, how can you ask for backing from a scripture you say is heretical?

Why do you accuse me falsely my guy.

Its one of the sins God says is an abomination to Him o.

Jeromejnr:


How na.

You're the one who doesn't believe the bible. You are afraid of the Truth.

No wonder when Jesus Himself brought the Truth, He was called a heretical teacher by the Pharisees.

Pharisees are those who stay too far from the Truth that they can't even see it.

Now you're lying.

1. Are you denying that you said the bible is from the heretical talmud?

2. Can you quote where I said I didn't believe the bible?

italo:


Now you're lying.

1. Are you denying that you said the bible is from the heretical talmud?

2. Can you quote where I said I didn't believe the bible?

From what you say, its obvious you don't beleive the bible. You beleive in the words of men.

Jeromejnr:


Why do you accuse me falsely my guy.

Its one of the sins God says is an abomination to Him o.

Should I provide the quote where you said the Bible is from the heretical talmud?

italo:


Should I provide the quote where you said the Bible is from the heretical talmud?

So you want to run away from our previous discussion and bring up something else.

You've not said AMEN to that prayer yet.

Jeromejnr:


From what you say, its obvious you don't beleive the bible. You beleive in the words of men.

So the John 20:23 And Matt 16:19 I quoted on this thread are words of men, right?

And you didn't say if you're denying that you claimed the Bible is from the heretical talmud.

Your afraid to own up to the truth, "christian?"

italo:


So the John 20:23 And Matt 16:19 I quoted on this thread are words of men, right?

And you didn't say if you're denying that you claimed the Bible is from the heretical talmud.

Your afraid to own up to the truth, "christian?"

I didn't see where you quoted that.

Jeromejnr:

I didn't see where you quoted that.

Of course,you didn't.You wouldn't. There's none as blind as he who would not see.

Dhugal:

Of course,you didn't.You wouldn't.
There's none as blind as he who would not see.

You lucky say I no get your time today sha.

Jeromejnr:


So you want to run away from our previous discussion and bring up something else.

You've not said AMEN to that prayer yet.

Here is you claiming the bible is from the heretical talmud.

BTW, the bible comes from the dead sea scrolls or the Jewish Talmud.

So we have the Dead sea scrolls, the Talmud and the Apochrypha.

https://www.nairaland.com/2552459/scriptural-proof-god-wants-us#37419401

So on what grounds are you challenging Catholic doctrine?

We show you scripture, you say it is 'heresy', 'words of men.'

italo:


Here is you claiming the bible is from the heretical talmud.



https://www.nairaland.com/2552459/scriptural-proof-god-wants-us#37419401

So on what grounds are you challenging Catholic doctrine?

We show you scripture, you say it is 'heresy', 'words of men.'

The Talmud is a huge collection of doctrines and laws compiled and written before the 8th Century, A.D., by ancient Jewish teachers. The Talmud, which often cites the Old Testament, is the basic book of Jewish law.

Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds
There are two editions of the Talmud; one was composed by Babylonian Jews and one by Jews who lived in ancient Jerusalem. Generally a citation from the Talmud refers to the Babylonian version, which is considered authoritative. The Jerusalem Talmud is not generally taught in even the most Orthodox Jewish schools today, though advanced Talmud scholars sometimes study it.
— Anti-Defamation League (12)

So seeing that there old testament laws came from that, I wonder what point you're trying to prove.

BTW, there are two types of Talmud. I am sure the heretical one you are referring to is the Jerusalem Talmud.

So take a chill pill and do a research before talking trash.

Jeromejnr:


Forget all this ones. I don't have time to start getting into history.

The point is, is what you're doing commanded in the scriptures? I have seen majority twist the scripture to try to suit their claims.

Most Catholics just believe all these because they grew up that way. So even if the truth comes, its hard to accept. Instead they use scriptures that was given to them from the pulpit that has been twisted from generations past to try and defend their claims..

Are you suggesting that you didnt really know what you were talking about. Because you seem to have suggested that the invocation of Mary started after Ephesus due to the sub tuum praesidium?

italo:


Mind you, you're arguing against Jeromejnr who would go as low as claiming the bible is from a heretical source, just to oppose the Catholic Church.

Keep that in mind.

If you need me to provide the quote, I will.

Now he considers the History Channel as his Bible...

When the History Channel supports Catholicism, you'll hear him scream "bible alone!"

He's just hear to oppose the Church, even if it means blaspheming

I wasnt familiar with him unfortunately. But then again lots of haters of the Church have been converted by the truth which is Christ himself. Think St Paul. Blessings brother.

Papist:

Are you suggesting that you didnt really know what you were talking about. Because you seem to have suggested that the invocation of Mary started after Ephesus due to the sub tuum praesidium?

I am suggesting that history has nothing to do with confirming if a dogma is right. I can give you Jehovah Witness history if you like and why they believe what they beleive.

What matters is the scriptures and what it says.