tbaba1234:


The fact that the universe is finite means that Allah exists outside of it..

Space and time itself are constructs of our existence in this universe . Allah is not limited by that.

That makes your question meaningless. We only understand space and time because we exist in this universe.

Allah describes himself in the Quran but we do not place human limitations on Allah and we do not take away from the way, he described himself.

dekatrons:

Haha...yes indeed saying Allah exists outside the universe bcause the universe is finite means that HE is "INFINITE" so to say which affirm to our point that HE is everywhere And no-where...cause there is no such place that is infinite and that HAS no beginning that we can point at and say Allah is there or there
If the question is meaningless I tink it automatically means that ur previous post is likewise cause d question was only the result of ur post

AlBaqir:
@sino, honestly you like going back and forth. You like opening what is irrelevant to discussions. I hate derailment.
This is not the first time. Anyway for the record, I have absolutely no problem with Salaf SALIH or taking from them. Please highlight the SALIH as i have nothing to do with the hypocrites among the Salaf which unfortunately the Sunni world see ALL as Saliheen. Quran and ahadith exposed them a lot.
If our aimma praised Sahaba and urged their followers to do the same, they simply refer to the righteous among them the way Allah Himself praise and send greetings to them. You can refer to sahifah sajjadiyah of Imam Sajjad for a chapter on Sahaba al-ikram. I am an ardent doer of this dua.

However the vital point is we are not commanded by Allah or His prophet to follow any salaf except the Ahl al-Bayt. I dare you talk about Hadith Thaqalain and Hadith Khalifatain which designated the Ahl al-Bayt as par of the Quran that must be followed provided you want guidance. Any other thing apart from these two is stray. Period.

Funny enough, who exactly are you trying to entice when you qoute long list of ahadith from Shii sources? Me or yourself? You see these ahadith as proves to your point (as if I against Sahaba) yet those ahadith I quoted from the same shii sources from Imam Ali that explain verses under discussion are meaningless to you.


Secondly, I don't need to expantiate on Quran 3:7 as you cannot agree with Empiree on the fundamental part of that ayah - "...no one knows the meaning except Allah and those who are grand in knowledge...". I am of the opinion that Allah grant these people these hidden knowledge but your manhaj disconnect the flow of the ayAh. I dare you talk about hadith Thaqalain.

Salam my dear brother.

vedaxcool:


Pantheism is the belief that the Universe (or Nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent God.

Monotheism is defined by the Encyclopædia Britannica as belief in the existence of one god or in the oneness of God.[1] The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church gives a more restricted definition: "belief in one personal and transcendent God", as opposed to polytheism and pantheism.

It is obvious these people talk of some other than Islam, when you say God is in everything, do imagine it to include your feces? or sewage? or blood? or garbage? Subahanallah! The obvious failings of this sort of thinking becomes evident.

If you say God is in everything then an Idolater can always claim to be right in worshiping a stone, a tree, or jsut about anything, simply put, he can "intellectually" argue he is worshiping God one way another.

In fact you would have no case against the Christians, since once again, these people can simply say, God is in Jesus, since you say he is in everything. Simply put, there will be no basis for questioning other religion's adherence to their various theological view point on God.

Sino and Co unah well done, but I tend to avoid an argument in which one party picks whatever itches their fancy and expects the other to abide by such itch!
My 2 cents.

tbaba1234:


The fact that the universe is finite means that Allah exists outside of it..

Space and time itself are constructs of our existence in this universe . Allah is not limited by that.

That makes your question meaningless. We only understand space and time because we exist in this universe.

Allah describes himself in the Quran but we do not place human limitations on Allah and we do not take away from the way, he described himself.

AlBaqir:


it seems my brother, vedaxcool, is really interested in faeces chemistry and its unity with its creator, Allah.

Now on a serious note, lets consider these noble verses together:

1. الله خلق كل شي Allah is the Creator of everything.

Does it include your faeces, blood or not? Faeces composed of micro and macro molecules, living organisms etc. Who created, fashioned and sustains those molecules and microbes that works harmoniously. Allah or you?

Another ayah says everything He created is perfect. That consideration of yours in that "imperfect stinky faeces" is a perfect formulation of Allah. Its one of those things that keeps you alive and healthy when you pass it out and its value and functions in the life of living things is magnanimous. We have created not for fun....We have created everything with wisdom...We have created everything and assigned its course. الله اكبر

2. يسبح لله ما في السموت وما في الارض Everything in the heavens and the earth is praising Allah.

Does these include all the millions of microbes in your stinky faeces or not?

A pig whose habitat is damn stinky, who feeds on nothing but stinky faeces and the likes do constantly in that very state praise her Lord. And the pig in that state is another example of Allah's perfection in His creation.

3. لا اله الا انت سبحنك اني كنت من الظلمين "There is no god except He, glory be to You, indeed I am among the zalimun"

This munajat is one the best revealed in the Quran. It is that of Nabi Yunus. He cried and call upon his Lord in the belly of the whale.

Try to imagine how extra-stinky the belly of a whale will be. Talk about the stinky juices and hazardous chemicals with macro-molecule waste product in the belly of this largest animal. Yet Nabi Yunus realized his Lord is closer to him that his jugular vein and he never cease for days and nights calling Him. And Allah says:

[color=#990000]So We responded to him and delivered him from the grief and thus do We deliver the believers.[/color ]

Vedaxcool, if it was you, you will never have seen or realize God in that stinky place.
........................
How much you see and how much you think is what will reveal the secret of Him and His manifestation and unity in EVERYTHING on earth and beyond it to you.

Wa Salam alaykum brother.

Empiree:
@sino, I think you stretched it. You seem to give "everything" and "everywhere" another meaning. I cited example earlier that King Fard's translation itself says "everywhere" but in parenthesis, "by His knowledge". You appear to stretch the meaning of "everything and everywhere". I dont think Albaqir disputes Allah is above His creation.

So far, i do not see 'shirk' or 'polytheism' in his theory.

sino:

No brother,I did not stretch anything, AlBaqir believes Allah (SWT) is everywhere in all his essence, might, power and glory, since you can't separate Allah (SWT) from His attributes, So He (SWT) is in filthy places not fit for us humans, but since microbes do have life, and Allah (SWT) is the living (Al-Hayy), then Allah (SWT) is there in all His essence, might, power and glory, Subhanallah! (Albaqir prove me wrong if this is not correct about your belief)

He forgot about the fact that Allah (SWT) says: "(He) who created death and life to test you (as to) which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving"

sino:


He forgot about the fact that Allah (SWT) says: "(He) who created death and life to test you (as to) which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving"

sino:

I am sure you read about my translation of salaf salih to be righteous predecessors, it's no rocket science, righteousness cannot be translated to mean another thing...

sino:

You have dismissed the opinions of these righteous predecessors, of which the ahl-l-bayt are part of, hence i asked, are these righteous predecessors on falsehood for believing and explaining Allah (SWT) is above his arsh, beyond his creation, and also believing and affirming the apparent meaning in the names and attributes of Allah (SWT) He chose to describe himself like hands, eyes, legs etc. without denial or making resemblance to His creation?

sino:


My reason for quoting shia sources is quite clear, you may read the post again. For the record, the narrations found in your books are said to contain many fabrications, in fact some very disturbing narrations that do not fit public consumption. Sometimes I find it amusing that you try to pick holes in our narrations, when in yours, trenches and ditches can be found...but what do I know....Don't blame me if I do not trust your narrations, I believe in Allah (SWT), and I believe that the Prophet (SAW) is His messenger.

sino:


Yeah, Qur'an 3 vs 7 cannot be expantiated... Well, I believe only Allah (SWT) knows what is hidden. If you claim otherwise, Allah says:

Muhsin Khan

Verily, Allah! With Him (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour, He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs. No person knows what he will earn tomorrow, and no person knows in what land he will die. Verily, Allah is All-Knower, All-Aware (of things).


And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Quran 3 vs 7)

sino:

Interesting, I had asked some questions you didn't respond to, maybe you can answer this ones...

Albaqir do you observe your salah in the toilet?

when you are defecating, do you do your adhkaar, chanting the beautiful names and attributes of Allah (SWT)?

If no, Why?

sino:

Jazakumullahu khayran brother, I have learnt something new, and truth, those who claim Allah (SWT) is in everything risk sounding more like those who believe in trinity and furthermore, idolators, and can argue based on this strange "intellectualism" that they worship God, and perhaps a new group may come up worshiping feces, and would say, yeah intellectually, God is there Naudhubillah!

AlBaqir:


Try and prove wrong my theories first. Those I gave vedaxcool. Am simply not under any obligation to answer any question you pose untill you prove me wrong how Allah in His power, glory, nearness, majesty and sustainability is absence in those "perfect creation" of His which by human natural limitations and nature is "filthy"? So explain how Nabi Yunus continue singing His praise in that state he found himself. By human standard and limitations, for your own safety, you are not expected to talk, or eat not to mention of performing salat where defecation is unless you are compel by situation to do so. Wudhu is purification of body and soul. If you are in a state of impurity and cannot find water to bathe (again human standards), He ask us to perform Tayamum yet those stinky smelly sperm is still all over you. In His wisdom, the only thing that could be more pure is your heart and that's what He needs. Interestingly, different kinds of flies created with specific functions in that stinky environs NEVER cease singing the praise of their Lord.

In this area [of creed] - just as in all of the other areas- we are upon what our pious predecessors, Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamâ’ah were upon.

From that [creed], [there] is what Allah informed [us] of in His Book and what was reported from numerous routes of transmission from His Messenger [alayhis salatu was salam] that He is above His heavens, Risen above the Throne as the Most High said:

“Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you, then behold it shakes (as in an earthquake)?” [al-Mulk16].

And as is reported in the Hadîth of the slave girl that the Prophet [alayhis salatu was salam] asked: “Where is Allah?” and she said: “ In the heavens.” So He asked: “ Who am I?” She replied: “ You are the Messenger of Allah.” He said: “ Free her, for she indeed is a believer.”- And this is the truth in which there is no doubt.

With that however, we guard it just as our pious predecessors guarded it from false conjectures – for example, that it is imagined that the heavens shade Him or confines Him, for this indeed is false. We have been compelled to mention this, negate it and declare Allah free from it-and if the Salaf were never actually faced with [negating] that the people of innovation and their false implications would annoy and be a nuisance to Ahlus Sunnah- For the Most High said:

“His Kursi extends over the heavens and earth.” [al-Baqarah 255]

And He the Glorified said:

“Indeed, Allah holds the heavens and the earth lest they cease.” [Fatir 41]

“He restrains the sky from falling upon the earth, unless by His permission.” [al-Hajj 65]

“And from His signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His command.” [Rûm 25]

And we believe that He, the Glorified, is risen above His throne, as the Most High said:

“ The Most Merciful rose above the throne.” [TaHa 5]

We do not interpret Istiwâ [rising] to mean conquering- on the contrary, it is upon its meaning in the language of the Arabs that Allah send the Qur’ân with. We do not liken the rising to the rising of any of His creation, rather, we say as Imâm Mâlik said: “Istiwâ is known, Imân in it is obligatory. The ‘how’ is unknown and asking about it is an innovation.” And it is in this manner that we pass on the rest of His attributes and actions, the Glorified and Most High such as; descending, coming and other [actions and attributes] that He, the Glorified has informed us of in His Book or what has been affirmed in the authentic Sunnah.

And we believe that along with his Istiwâ over the throne and His Highness above His heavens, the Glorified the Most High [we believe] that He is close to His slaves as the Glorified said:

“And if My slaves ask concerning Me, then indeed I am Close.” [al-Baqarah 186]

And in the agreed upon Hadith:

“Oh people! Have mercy upon yourselves, for verily you are not calling upon One that is deaf or that is absent-nay, you are calling upon One that is All Hearing, All Seeing. Indeed, the one whom you are calling is closer to you than the neck of his riding animal.”

He is with His slaves wherever they are and He knows what they are doing – as the Most High said:

“ And He is with you wherever you may be and Allah is All Seeing of what you do.” [Al-Hadîd 4]

It is not to be understood from His words: “He is with you” the intent of the heretics [stating] that He is mixed with His creation, or that He has merged in some of them or united with them or anything else of the beliefs of Kufr and misguidance- nay, we declare ourselves free unto Allah from all of that. And He, the Glorified has with His believing slaves another Ma’iyyah [‘with’] that is not the general Ma’iyyah and it is the Ma’iyyah of victory, granting success, and correctness-as is in His statement, the Most High:

“ Indeed, Allah is with those who observe Taqwâ and those who are good doers.” [an-Nahl 128]

So He, the Glorified, along with his Istiwâ over His throne and His ascendancy above His heavens, He is with His slaves wherever they may be and He knows what they do. He, the Glorified, is close to the one that supplicates to Him and He is with His believing slaves; He protects them, aids them and assists them- so His closeness- the Glorified, and His Ma’iyyah does not negate His ascendancy and highness for there is none like unto Him in His attributes, the Glorified. He is High in His closeness, Close in His highness.

AlBaqir:

Then none of you has ever try to attempt it: Can you separate Him from His attributes? Then, for the record, I have been very careful to use the word "Dhat (essence)", so I'm surprise how you instantly used it claiming I meant His essence is in faeces. About Dhatillah, I know NOTHING of it. So asking the question is a way of argumentation when your some salaf limited Him to the space, and claimed only His knowledge exist on earth. This is what brought my question that can He be separated from His attributes? How is He present in everything and everywhere? All these have been answered already since while I quote Mawla Ameerul muminin 'Ali (alaihim Salam).

Is He sitting down in His Essence on the Throne? Should some salaf attached body, legs, hands LITERALLY to Him, with attributes of moving from one place to the other, we got serious problem then, explaining His Essence.

AlBaqir:

Then what are you implying with the noble verse above?

barbstee:
Allah is on His throne above the heavens and He is everywhere by His knowledge.And when He intends something He says to it "be and it will be"

#Allah_is_on_the_throne

AlBaqir:


Ma sha Allah brother. So be generous to pardon me. Since you guys love "ko eran mo ero" when it comes to Sahaba, I love making it emphatically clear that it is a slap on the face of the righteous among the blessed Sahaba to attach the hypocrites among them in the same rank. Even the righteous among them gan, according to Quran have different Darajat.



Again Sino, none of us is under obligation to follow any salaf. The only obligation upon us which you have boycotted is following the Ahl al-Bayt, the par of the Quran. Even our ardent sheik Ibn Taymiyyah in his prestigius Minhaj Sunnah confirmed that many Sahaba contradicted Quran in their rulings, and there are practical examples. Interestingly prophet was reported to have said in mutawattir ahadith is Sahihain that many of these Sahaba will introduce Bid'a thereby he will disown them on the day of judgment. Quran limit who to follow to "ulul amr" among them, prophet limit who to follow to "khulafau rashidun" yet you want the world to follow just any salad. Again hadith Thaqalain and Hadith Khalifatain knock your socks off completely.

Should you wish to follow every tom, dick and harry salaf, that's your wish. [\quot]

We know the righteous predecessors, Allah (SWT) has praised them, the Prophet (SAW) had praised them up to the 3rd generation, they follow the Qur’an and the sunnah strictly, and they strive to weed out deviant ideologies (bid’ah) from those who started adopting Greek philosophy and logic, as well as other heresies into the fabrics of the deen. We have their books, their narrations have been passed down to us through a well structured process that quickly eradicates any form of fabrications, and their understanding of the deen is the best, for the these facts, it is obligatory to follow them. Why do you think Allah (SWT) says we should go ask people of knowledge if we do not know or understand? Who are the people of knowledge? Is it those who use intellect to interpret the deen, or those who have knowledge of the deen following the Qur’an and the sunnah?! You can say you are not under any obligation to follow the salaf, but it is common sense to follow those who have succeeded, it’s a simple fundamental principle in life, and you don’t even need to be told!


[quote author=AlBaqir post=38002832]
My dear brother I agree 100% with you here. We NEVER claimed our hadith collection are free from errors and fabrication. In fact, Shia standard is if any hadith contradict Quran in anyway, it is batil. And mark my word, lanrexlan, can testify to this, I never claim "sahih" for any of our books of hadith. It is your books that claimed to be Sahih all through: The Bukhari and Muslim. And you the follower are ready to protect their Sahihism even if you could see many ahadith in them that blatantly contradict Quran.
This is where I normally launch my attack the most.

On the other hand, when you talk about Shii narrators, I am glad to inform you that even Imam al-Bukhari and Muslim depends largely on them in their prestigious Sahih not to mention other Sunni aimma on hadith.

AlBaqir:

My brother, I do not claim otherwise. Unfortunately you quoted one side of the coin. What about the other side? What we claim which is supported by the Quran is that this hidden knowledge is gifted to whomever Allah wish or love. I do not need to quote verses in support of this for you.

AlBaqir:

No sir. I did not. It is not in my fitrah as human being to even stand and survive impurity. And Allah is merciful enough to enjoined on us only what is within our limitations. However, if I find myself in dire situations to do so I will and I must just like Nabi Yunus. And to add, it is in the fitrah of man to call on Him anywhere we find ourselves in a dire situation. Quran testify to this.

Again those millions of microbes, and flies that tawaf that stinky faeces with the praise of the Lord while they perform the works assigned to them signify that nothing like impurity or imperfection before Him.

Oh! I almost forgot to add to the list our Nabi Ayyub (alahi Salam). His situation is so worse that his blessed body was getting rotten and decaying, stinky and smelling where he was deserted. He never stop praising his Lord and his Lord was closer to him than his jugular vein even in that state of his detested by human.

The manifestation of Allah is beyound theoretical knowledge. When you experience Him spiritually, you will realize His divine presence in everything.

AlBaqir:


my dear brother Sino try to be just on your brothers please. Is it the pressure or insecurity that makes you synchronized our belief with that of the Trinitarian?! Alas, what about "sahih" ahadith in Bukhari and Muslim that says He sit down on His Throne, and only move down to the 1st heavens in the late part of the night to hear the dua of His Abd? Or that He showed His gigantic leg or that He will put His leg inside hell-fire for it to be satiated...are these (and more) not Christianic?

People like you and vedaxcool spare your precious time combating christians by exposing book of Genesis and the likes that says He came down, walking like a giant, looking for Adam; or that He sits on the Throne while His son, Jesus, sit beside Him. Are you being fair at all?!

sino:


Prove you wrong?! Lol, We have done that repeatedly from the first page on this thread, we do not deny microbes living in the feces, but we deny your strange believe that Allah (SWT) is there with his names and attributes, we’ve repeatedly stated what the Prophet (SAW) thought his companions (including his ahl-l-bayt), and what was affirmed by the salaf, which is:

[size=20pt]الرَّحْمَٰنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىٰ[/size]

Sahih International

The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.

Muhsin Khan

The Most Beneficent (Allah) Istawa (rose over) the (Mighty) Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). (Qur’an 20 vs 5)

sino:


Your beliefs are strange to the best generation of Muslims; you have not provided any proof except your personal opinion and one narration from Ali (ra) whith questionable authenticity. For benefit of all, let me quote a brief explanation of our Aqidah of Allah’s names and attributes:
(Sheikh Abu Muhammad AlMaqdisi, This is our Aqeedah pp. 4-6)

sino:

Wow, you just keep surprising me, so you carefully left out the dhat (essence) of Allah (SWT) when stating Allah (SWT) is everywhere, did your intellect fail you? Is Allah’s dhat not part of his attribute? So you don’t know? Ponder on it dear brother, you will know how to explain Allah’s essence, use your understanding of wahadat-l-wujud bro, you can, your intellect is the key! Well if you are still confused how Allah (SWT) can be above His throne (with his dhat) and still be with us, read what I posted above, if you disagree, you are actually (or inadvertently) saying the Prophet (SAW) did not understand these attributes of Allah (SWT), his companions also did not understand it, as well as the salaf salih, except for you guys with superior intellect naudhubillah!

sino:

Okay, lets now look at your quote from Ali (ra) found in Usul-alkafi, can we accept this narration as authentic Albaqir? Give us the Isnad, give us the grading from your scholars on this hadith, while bringing this info I requested, I remembered to have read about the fabrications in shia collections, so I went digging….please clear me on these issues…

sino:

It means Allah (SWT) exactly as it is, Allah (SWT) created life and death, there is nothing like unto him, so you can’t start interpolating Al-Hayy to mean Allah is in every living thing.

sino:
.

sino:
Lol, your inconsistencies are legendary, so Allah (SWT) manifest himself in such filthy places and his divine presence is also there, why were you then carefully removing his dhat, when you claim his divine presence in such filthy places? and did you just say beyond theoretical knowledge? Wow bro, I thought we are all about the intellect, defining terms used by Allah (SWT) based on our intellect Allah (SWT) is the All Hearing, the All Seeing and His Knowledge encompasses all, He does not need to be in the belly of the whale, or in your stinky feaces to hear, know and see His creation and what they do...Subhanallah anma yasifun...

For the record, Allah (SWT) is perfect, thus imperfection should never be associated with him in any way or form, and this include what we understand as imperfection, such as filth, sins, immorality, etc. When you as a human would never stay 5seconds in a soak-away, or want to be associated with the strip clubs and other places of immorality, How dare you Put your creator in such places... Our beliefs have been consistent from the time of the noble messenger to the present, We believe in Allah's Names and attribute and divine essence the way he says it in His glorious text, and related to us from the best of mankind, and understood by the righteous predecessors, we do not liken it to our human limitations, or seek the howness and modalities...

sino:
You should quote the other side of the coin and let us see
if your claims are correct bro. If we are to go by your
claims, Is the gift of "hidden knowledge" about the
interpretation of the Qur'an lost on the sahabah and the
salaf salih when they affirm the rise of Allah (SWT)
above His arsh? Did the Prophet (SAW) also failed to
explain these "hidden knowledge" to his ummah?!

AlBaqir:


it seems my brother, vedaxcool, is really interested in faeces chemistry and its unity with its creator, Allah.

Now on a serious note, lets consider these noble verses together:

1. الله خلق كل شي Allah is the Creator of everything.

Does it include your faeces, blood or not? Faeces composed of micro and macro molecules, living organisms etc. Who created, fashioned and sustains those molecules and microbes that works harmoniously. Allah or you?

Another ayah says everything He created is perfect. That consideration of yours in that "imperfect stinky faeces" is a perfect formulation of Allah. Its one of those things that keeps you alive and healthy when you pass it out and its value and functions in the life of living things is magnanimous. We have created not for fun....We have created everything with wisdom...We have created everything and assigned its course. الله اكبر

2. يسبح لله ما في السموت وما في الارض Everything in the heavens and the earth is praising Allah.

Does these include all the millions of microbes in your stinky faeces or not?

A pig whose habitat is damn stinky, who feeds on nothing but stinky faeces and the likes do constantly in that very state praise her Lord. And the pig in that state is another example of Allah's perfection in His creation.

3. لا اله الا انت سبحنك اني كنت من الظلمين "There is no god except He, glory be to You, indeed I am among the zalimun"

This munajat is one the best revealed in the Quran. It is that of Nabi Yunus. He cried and call upon his Lord in the belly of the whale.

Try to imagine how extra-stinky the belly of a whale will be. Talk about the stinky juices and hazardous chemicals with macro-molecule waste product in the belly of this largest animal. Yet Nabi Yunus realized his Lord is closer to him that his jugular vein and he never cease for days and nights calling Him. And Allah says:

[color=#990000]So We responded to him and delivered him from the grief and thus do We deliver the believers.[/color ]

Vedaxcool, if it was you, you will never have seen or realize God in that stinky place.
........................
How much you see and how much you think is what will reveal the secret of Him and His manifestation and unity in EVERYTHING on earth and beyond it to you.

Wa Salam alaykum brother.

sino:

Jazakumullahu khayran brother, I have learnt something new, and truth, those who claim Allah (SWT) is in everything risk sounding more like those who believe in trinity and furthermore, idolators, and can argue based on this strange "intellectualism" that they worship God, and perhaps a new group may come up worshiping feces, and would say, yeah intellectually, God is there Naudhubillah!

Empiree:
Naturally, whether you are muslim, Christian, jew etc. If someone asks where is God?. We all look up. That's natural instinct.

But to say He's up there sitting on something literally just very silly. Anyways, I understood albaqir's view. To me, the difference here is rather 'mode of expression' (phraseology).

Fundamentalist:


If Allah has said in the Qur'an "He rose over the throne" seven times, who are you to add a "BUT" to it.

A Muslim believe firmly in whatever is stated in the Qur'an without slight hesitation in the least

AlBaqir:
Sino, vedaxcool, Aareonakakanfo, Fundamentalist, dekatrons, barbstee and ofcourse Empiree. I invite you to read how Salafiyyun's deceptions and falsifications is exposed on the issue "Where Is Allah?" Below is a web-page of an Ahlu Sunnah.
http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=53