acenazt:


It is when you attend every Church function and program,believe all the pastor says and not think for your self

Jozzy4:
This is the problem with fanatics,

Jozzy4:
if everybody become a born again and go to heaven, does that not clearly spell psalm 37: 9-11 and matt 5:5 as a lie?

Jozzy4:
Can God lie?

Jozzy4:
Why promise a " New Earth" if everbody will be ressurected to heaven?

OLAADEGBU:
What does it mean to be a born again Christian?

OLAADEGBU:
How can I become a born again Christian?

MuttleyLaff:
Biblical rear-view mirror will fix this problem and eliminate blind spots such as these

No it doesnt because Heaven is a necessary honeymoon, a trip to return back from, come down, back to earth to

No, because God is loyal to the truth, He cant lie.

Answer to this, is same with the honeymoon response given above

Jozzy4:
This honeymoon theory is a lie

Jozzy4:
"because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call,
with an arch angels voice and with Gods trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first
17. After ward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away to meet the Lord in the air;
and thus we will always be with the Lord" - 1 The 4:16,17

They will meet the Lord in the air and WILL ALWAYS BE WITH HIM . Unless you wanna tell me Jesus will also come down to earth?

MuttleyLaff:


I've in the Bible read about being born again The Bible tells how one is or when one is born from above
but I am yet to read about be born again Christian (i.e. born again with a Christian appendage)

Can I have where Christian is explicitly mentioned in the born again verse(s) please?

MuttleyLaff:


Same way, one tongue in cheek becomes a born again Negro/Nigger Christian?
Can I the three occurrences where Christian is explicitly mentioned in the Bible and the etymology of the word?
Also did the early believers or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

MuttleyLaff:
As you like it,
but it still wont stop this Bridegroom from take His bride on a honeymoon

You need to go on a speed/crash course, to learn on how to, on all levels, understandably read the Bible

Compare 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ''always be with the Lord''
with Matthew 28:20's ''I am with you always''

Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you.
And be sure of this:
I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
- Matthew 28:20

OLAADEGBU:
I know using the words born again and Christian in the sentence is tautology
but it is sometimes necessary so as to drive home the clearness of the meaning.

OLAADEGBU:
I hope the scriptures below will satisfy your curiosity.

"Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf" (1 Peter 4:16).

"And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. and it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch" (Acts 11:26).

"Then Agrippa said to Paul, You almost persuade me to be a Christian. And Paul said, I would to God, that not only you, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds" (Acts 26:28-29)

OLAADEGBU:
The term "Christian" was originally applied to the disciples of Christ and this means "learners" of Christ, which soon became an object of derision and persecution.

OLAADEGBU:
Those who are ashamed to be called a Christian are not worthy to be called disciples of Christ

OLAADEGBU:
Hence Peter's admonition

Jozzy4:
That comparison is faulty, because the context is talking about different things. we (christian caught to heaven) will always be with the Lord. Its very clear that it means they will always be with Jesus in heaven.

Jozzy4:
John 14:3
"also, If I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again
and will receive you Home to myself, so that where I am you also may be"

Note the underlined

MuttleyLaff:


Well I can argue the same with using negro or nigger too, like the way vooks usually at times likes to do

MuttleyLaff:


You know asking for the verses wasnt for my benefit
and that it was for all, to see the context and read how the 3 Christian words, in the Bible, were used.

MuttleyLaff:


Does ''Christian'' really ''learner'' or it means ''follower''?
You conveniently or absent mindedly didnt respond to whether the early believers or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

MuttleyLaff:


Did you notice Paul response to Aggrippa?
Did you notice Paul stopped short of using Aggrippa's "Christian" adjective
and instead opted to use ''I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am''

MuttleyLaff:


Jesus asked the disciples: ''Who do people say I am?''
After the disciples gave all manner of answers, He zeroed in.
''But what about you?'' He asked. ''Who do you say I am?''

Here is I, taking a leaf from Jesus, now too, asking, not what do people call you, or what others say you are
but am asking: OLAADEGBU, who do you say you are?

MuttleyLaff:


This isnt an admonition but more of a morale build up
Believers at that time were being inundated with persecutions and sufferings of all sorts.
On top, morale was getting low so Peter was building up or boosting morale when he penned that letter
Peter effectively was saying, if you suffer as an object of derision, do not be embarrassed or feel guilty
(e.g. do not be ashamed when in a mockingly manner you're called or suffer as a christian,
an effect, to some extent, similarly to being called a negro/nigger in pre-60s/70s/even today)

OLAADEGBU:
Just say that you are eager to call me nigger, don't keep it in the corner of your cheek, spit it out

OLAADEGBU:
Anyone who read the verses will know that the word Christians there refers to believers in Christ

OLAADEGBU:
What's the difference between "learners" and "followers"? Both refer to the word "disciples" of Christ.

OLAADEGBU:
There is no doubt that Paul was trying to persuade King Agrippa into becoming a Christian just as he (Paul) was except for the bonds

OLAADEGBU:
By the grace of God 'am a Christian

OLAADEGBU:
What about you?

OLAADEGBU:
If you are to use one word to describe the above, what will it be?

MuttleyLaff:


I know you're too bright to think this has anything to do with eagerness to call anyone a nigger
You mentioned tautology for as necessary so as to drive home the clearness of a meaning, so I replied this can be argued with nigger too
If you arent comfy with nigger, why christian, afterall they both have hurtful undertone histories

MuttleyLaff:


Anyone who read the three verses will know that the word Christians there refers, to believers in Christ with a hurtful/insulting undertones

MuttleyLaff:


No there are distinctions and furthemore both words do not refer to disciples of Christ
First Christian in the context of those three verse has an etymology and meaning different to ''learner'' ''follower'' or ''disciple''
Just as Jesus in the Bible days, had some many followers, so today and now, we have so many people follow Jesus
People follow Jesus about for some many and different reasons
It is no different today, to the Bible days, where not all followers of Jesus, were disciples or learners.

Replying, disciples are followers and/or learners but not all followers are disciples or learners

You've again, refrained conveniently from answering back or absent mindedly still not responding to whether or not, the early believers or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

MuttleyLaff:


Paul was persuading King Agrippa, aiming to have him become just as Paul was except for the bonds and not to become the narrow-minded-dont-mind-looking-death-in-the-face Christian which is according to King Agrippa's understanding of what believers were

MuttleyLaff:


You really do not know what Christian is,
You really do not know the background behind the word
You really dont know what the word was all about.
Think of the era of usage, think Roman, think of the persecution of believers then, now think Caesar, think those loyalty to Caesar even when facing death, (i.e. Caesariani as that is what the followers of Caesar were called) now compare with believers in the face of adversity.
King Agrippa chose his derisive word carefully when he said Paul almost make him a Christian

Believers had this unshivering loyalty to Jesus, even to the point of death,
Many believers were persecuted by the Romans, suffered burnt at stakes, fed to the lions in Roman Colosseums etcetera but never once renounced or denounced their faith
So believers were given the Christian tag then, not as a compliment but with derisive undertones
- similar to when calling someone a negro/nigger is not necesarily complimentary
but is a slur with intent to insult and/or ridicule

MuttleyLaff:


If you must know, am the son of the Most High God

That is why Christ did not honor himself by assuming he could become High Priest.
No, he was chosen by God, who said to him,
"You are my Son. Today I have become your Father."
- Hebrews 5:5

MuttleyLaff:


Morale-boosting

MuttleyLaff:
I wont go into the different things aspect
however ''christian caught to heaven'' and be forever with God,
is the same as with a bride rushing into the arms of the Bridegroom and forever be with Him

I wonder why you neglected reflecting on the bits that preceded the underlined
Anyway, this is a classic example of randomly quoting bible verses
and not understanding bible verses, the context, the idioms or the prevailing culture of the time behind and surrounding the verses

People go away to prepare a place or build a house, so that where they are, their bride may also be

OLAADEGBU:
No they don't

OLAADEGBU:
Not necessarily

OLAADEGBU:
Let's go back to where the word "Christian" was first used:

"And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. and it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch"
(Acts 11:26).

The name "Christ" to the Jews was a title which means "the anointed One," that is, the Jewish Messiah but the Greek speaking believers in Antioch became known as Christians as the verse depicts and this has been the case ever since

OLAADEGBU:
You are putting words into Agrippa's mouth here

OLAADEGBU:
Go back to the scriptures:

"Then Agrippa said to Paul, You almost persuade me to be a Christian.
And Paul said, I would to God, that not only you,
but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am,
except these bonds" (Acts 26:28-29)

OLAADEGBU:
If you read the whole text with an open mind you will come to the conclusion that Paul was using strong persuassion to make King Agrippa become a Christian even though Agrippa put the decision off for political or financial reasons

OLAADEGBU:
Speak for yourself

OLAADEGBU:
I see, you are "the son of"

OLAADEGBU:
I said one word

Jozzy4:
Forever be with him in his arms

Jozzy4:
why do you now initially said the bride will be separated from him? Groom in heaven, bride leave him in heaven and depot to earth?

Jozzy4:
Together in heaven? Or the groom will be in a house (heaven), while the bride will be in another house ( earth)?

Most professing Christians believe that being “born again” occurs in this life upon “receiving Jesus.” But this is not what the Bible teaches. Being “born again” has nothing whatsoever to do with “professing Jesus,” “just believing in your heart,” “giving your heart to the Lord” or any other kind of religious experience. It does not happen at conversion. The Bible teaches that it happens long after this initial step in a new Christian’s life

So few understand Jesus’ words: “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Reread and consider them carefully. Take note of what Christ says is at stake in just this single scripture. One’s ability to “see the kingdom of God” hinges solely on whether he is “born again.” Obviously, one had better understand the enormous importance of how and when people are born again!
When Christ said “Except a man,” He left no room for misunderstanding. Do not be confused. Remaining deceived about being born again makes salvation impossible. Certainly, when this occurs is inseparable from properly understanding how it happens or what it means. Also, if one believes that conversion allows a person to “see the kingdom,” then he must believe that the kingdom is here now. Yet the Bible plainly teaches otherwise!
While Christ’s words require explanation, you can understand what so many do not. And it will be made most PLAIN!
First Things First—Basic Scriptures!
Of the 12 rules of Bible study, the most basic for proper doctrinal understanding is to start with the clearest scriptures on any subject. This is especially critical in removing misconceptions about how and when one is born again.
In fact, there are several plain verses about this subject. They introduce everything else that follows. Understanding them is the only proper way to approach the subject. The entire doctrine becomes quite easy to understand when you keep these few basic verses straight. We shall examine three before examining Christ’s statement in John 3:3.

First, notice a most startling scripture written by the apostle Paul to the Colossians. Remember that the Bible always interprets itself, and to always accept what it says after it does.
Speaking of Christ, Paul wrote, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE…And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD; that in all things He might have the preeminence” (1:15, 18).
Christ is the firstborn “from the dead.” This is a big key to understanding when one is born again. Believe God, and fix this phrase in your mind. This verse states that one’s new birth occurs after death—and involves returning from the dead. Once again, accept what the Bible says, without adding to or subtracting from it. Verse 15 uses the phrase “firstborn of every creature,” thereby adding double emphasis to Paul’s statement—and meaning.
Despite the plainness of this verse, some try to dismiss it by saying it has nothing to do with being born from the dead. They explain it away as merely a title given to Christ—that He holds the title of “FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD.”
This is silly—even foolish—and easy to disprove.

Notice the phrase “who is the beginning.” This alone proves that Christ’s Resurrection from the dead refers to the order in time sequence that this occurs. He is the “beginning” of all those others who will receive eternal life at His Return—when the resurrection of the dead occurs. “Beginning” has to be a reference to who is first. The next passage builds on and helps explain this one.
Paul wrote to the Romans, “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren” (8:29). God intends on having “many” sons—Christ’s “brethren,” born later in His plan. If anyone is designated to be first, others must follow, or first has no meaning. It must be related to something else later. In the case of salvation, many will follow. This is further proof that “firstborn” has nothing to do with any supposed title!
Christ is not the only Son to be part of God’s Plan. There will be more sons who follow Him in the resurrection. He is firstborn of “every creature”—the other sons. The many other brethren are those converted over the last 2,000 years (and a few in the Old Testament). They are called to become younger brothers and sisters with Christ. If Christ is firstborn from the dead, then all other brethren would be “secondborn,” “thirdborn,” “onehundrethborn,” etc.
Let’s note one additional verse confirming when Christ was born again. The apostle John, recording Christ’s Revelation, wrote, “And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth” (1:5, NKJV).
Though the Authorized Version (KJV) translates this as “first begotten,” virtually every other translation renders this verse as “firstborn from the dead.”
These verses make absolutely plain that one is born from the dead at the RESURRECTION. Only then will—or can—anyone “see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus Questions Christ
Now for the verse that causes so much unnecessary controversy and confusion for so many. This should never be. Let’s examine why.
A series of verses in John 3 is commonly misunderstood by people who believe that they can be “born again” in this life, as physical human beings, and, therefore, “see the kingdom of God.”
In this account, Nicodemus questioned Christ, who answered, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (vs. 3). Confused, Nicodemus replied, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered…Except a man be born of water [the first physical, human birth] and of the Spirit [again later, at the resurrection], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (vs. 4-5). To see and enter into God’s kingdom, you must become SPIRIT. But people are physical. Entering the kingdom is impossible for them, because Paul wrote that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (I Cor. 15:50)!
While Nicodemus knew exactly what being born meant, he was confused about how it could happen again—a second time. This is why he asked about re-entering his mother’s womb. However, ministers and religious leaders today are deceived and confused in a different way. They claim that being born again has nothing to do with an actual birth—but that it is a feeling, an experience, a “conversion” and the like.
In verse 5, Christ explains what it means to be “born of water and of the Spirit,” and why, if this does not happen, one “cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Yes, the kingdom is something that can be “entered into.” But Christ explains His “born of water and of the Spirit” phrase when He states, “That which is BORN of the flesh IS flesh” and then “that which is born of the Spirit IS spirit” (vs. 6).
Of course it is. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God—but spirit can! Human beings are made of dust (Gen. 2:7; 3:19), not spirit. Those born again are composed of spirit.
When born as humans, we are delivered from a PHYSICAL mother. When born of spirit, we are delivered from a SPIRITUAL mother, the Church.

People are destined to be born again as spirit, like Christ was, just as surely as they are born physically of a human mother, like Christ was. This will become plain.
Because Christ wanted no room for misunderstanding, He likened spirit to wind. Wind, like spirit, is invisible. It cannot be seen. Christ told Nicodemus, “The wind blows where it lists [does], and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit” (vs. . Those who are born of spirit will be like wind—they will be invisible! But human beings are flesh and blood, and can be seen.
Another comparison is important. Wind often demonstrates enormous POWER. While invisible, its effects are easily seen. The force of hurricanes, typhoons, tornadoes and straight-line winds can be tremendous. But people possess relatively little power. The power of wind vastly exceeds that of the strongest human being—or a million put together!
So, there is a limitation on who can actually see and enter the kingdom. Anyone can see physical things. Therefore, the kingdom cannot be something physical, or everyone could see it. Understand these critical points that Christ made. You must be spirit to see the invisible kingdom of God!

plappville:
Continues....

chichriso:
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MuttleyLaff:
You have to be very careful and be mindful of the bones in the food some of these men of questionable character or doctrine dish out

I agree all written in the ''interesting article'' is 85% correct,
however disagree with where it is being suggested that, without ''entering the kingdom'', its impossible to ''see the kingdom''

I must confess I used to hold Herbert W. Armstrong in high esteem
and also used to request for his organisation's free book and Plain Truth magazine
even made requests for his book and the magazine for friends and family
but all the book requests and the respect I once had for him stopped the moment, around in 2005 or thereabouts
when I began reading and learning about some of his misleading and misguiding viewpoints
- some where books and articles with racist thoughts

David C. Pack, is the author of the above article and was a protégé of Herbert W. Armstrong
- as such, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree

When Is a Christian “Born Again”?
http://realtruth.org/articles/140311-001.html

What Does “Born Again” Mean?
http://rcg.org/books/wdbam.html

paxonel:

we are christians we are not born again.
It is far better to be called a Christianity than to be called born again.
It's like you are in Christianity and you are bearing a name in another religion, Judaism.
And moreover, people who call themselves born again knows their fantasy of living a sinless life is not feasible