Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? - Culture (5) - Nairaland
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 12:32am On Sep 19, 2012 |
This is a you tube footage made by a Jamaican linguistic about Jamaican patois.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnh_VD-JhJA The Kromanti is a TWI language from Ghana and you can see the early Patois which seem exactly like early Pidgin English of Southern Nigeria before Port Harcourt itself was founded. Now let me explain the logic.. Europeans did not just enter Africa and jacked people away. There was interaction between Africans and Europeans and the AFRICANS may have tried to speak the white man's language. That trial would be a bad form of the language obviously. As time went on that trial improved and a proper bad form of the white man's language evolved. At this time slavery had not been introduced. Slavery was introduced years after that first contact and by that time Bad European language was already spoken in the West Coast of AFRICA especially at the SLAVE COAST . The SLAVE COAST was the Bight of Biafra (bonny ) Which then was the main territory of KALABARI IJAWS. This gave birth to the first bad dutch language by the KALABARI IJAWS. Speakers of this bAD dutch Language were taken to the Caribbean land of GUYANA, SURINAM, ANTIGUA, ARUBA, ANTILLES and Belize. Prior to that time the Portuguese had taken a lot of people including Yorubas, Igbos and ASHANTIS to Brazil and Colombia. But because the Portuguese people were kicked out from the area ,the bad Portuguese formed gave way to Dutch and french. Dutch mixed with French was the first bad European language spoken by the natives mixed with their native dialect. As the English came The English language was introduced and the natives mixed the Dutch / French bad language with the English. to form the first Pidgin Language. SLAVE TRADE commenced thereafter and the English took many of the people speaking this new bad language away as slaves to the CARIBBEAN Country where some earlier taken were already speaking bad Dutch which has now become BERBICE CREOLE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PH1TvEE8Vw more than 50 years from then slavery was abolished by the English. The abolition of slavery gave birth to FREE TOWN where freed slaves from slave ships were placed. These freed slaves from slave ships were slaves from SLAVE COAST which is Niger Delta and people speaking BAD EUROPEAN LANGUAGE ALREADY . The pidgin they speak as freed slaves taken to free town was then introduced to the people there. Because freed slaves were not taken to GHANA and any where else they were deprived of Pidgin English. Western Cameroon speak it also because Western Cameroon was at the same zone with the Niger delta and had similar influence...... People should forget about the Nigerian factor of denying facts because their tribe were not involved. And people should stop hating the Ijaws. EARLY PIDGIN english had only Ijaw african words before other tribal words gradually got in . Even in Sierra Leone today there are Ijaw words in the pidgin they speak although Yoruba words have seriously taken over due to lots more Yoruba slaves that were released there later. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by onuwaje(m): 10:41am On Aug 13, 2013 |
killayut:u are totally wrong my friend... Try research again warri is the home base of itsekiri(ijaw and urhobo) port harcourt was formed in 1913 and warri has been in existence since time immemorial(14th century)... Get d facts right b4 u jump to conclusion |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 4:04pm On Aug 16, 2013 |
onuwaje: u are totally wrong my friend... Try research again warri is the home base of itsekiri(ijaw and urhobo) port harcourt was formed in 1913 and warri has been in existence since time immemorial(14th century)... Get d facts right b4 u jump to conclusion . There was no warri .The itshekiris just moved from ode itshekiri to warri which was just an European settlement owned by Ijaw. and Kalabari people have started speaking pidgin before Ph was founded. Early pidgin was full o ijaw words. na wah. That y'all say is pure Ijaw. Wah in Ijaw mean excess or too much. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by onuwaje(m): 5:56pm On Aug 16, 2013 |
killayut:arrant nonsense!!!...... Like I said get ur fact right b4 posting |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 7:44am On Aug 17, 2013 |
onuwaje: arrant nonsense!!!...... Like I said get ur fact right b4 posting What is arrant nonsense ? ITSHEKIRIS still do not have cemetery in warri. They bury at ode itshekiri. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by onuwaje(m): 8:58am On Aug 17, 2013 |
killayut:correction!! The cementary ur talking about is a 'royal cementary' exclusively for monarchs I gat a few questions for u 1.Where is cementary road located in warri and why? 2.How come there are more itsekiri towns in warri?? E.g okere.ugbuwangue,ekpen,ubeji,omadino,ifie,obodo,etc?? |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 11:02pm On Aug 17, 2013 |
onuwaje: correction!! The cementary ur talking about is a 'royal cementary' exclusively for monarchs I gat a few questions for u Madino is not Okere and non of them is warri..Stop decieving the world..Your forefathers were not this stupid if not Ijaw people would not allow them to stay.you are inside ijaw territory and you can see it even in every way..Warri is a town settled by Europeans on ijaw land.those omadino and so on are different towns. But our argument is not even on that. Tell me one itshekiri word that is in ancient pidgin ..Non. all the words were Ijaw words from Potopoto to wah to worwor the am in sentence like do am or get am. LOL.That's why Africans argue forever.Those are differeñt towns you mentioned and non of them is warri. THEY all just claimed the name Warri. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by onuwaje(m): 1:21am On Aug 18, 2013 |
killayut:get ur facts right nigga |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by onuwaje(m): 9:03am On Aug 18, 2013 |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 6:08pm On Aug 24, 2013 |
onuwaje: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsekiri_people LOL.. i can stay in my bed room and publish rubbish about any place and people on wiki.... wiki is nonsense.. I can even go to those your warri wiki and edit them to my taste.. Thats how useless wiki is...nairaland is where we at right now where people post what they think like what we are doing here .. Go to the ground ( the place and see things for your self... Ofunama in EDO state is Ijaw land. Infact the whole OKOMU region is Ijaw, The Egbema people in EDO are Ijaw . You can now see how Ijaw surround Itshekiri. That is one big fact that the Itshekiris are within Ijaw territory and they even share all their enclave with the Ijaws. Ijaw extend to Ondo with no other tribe in between them. That is enough to prove that the Itshekiri is in Ijaw territory ... |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by ThaFreeRadikal(m): 3:18pm On Aug 28, 2014 |
No one group can claim responsibility for the evolution of pidgin English, or any sub-dialect of any language for that matter... Languages naturally evolve over time; a word that was merely a slang a few generations ago could very well be generally accepted as part of the language today; it happens all the time, even in Queen's English. Informal dialects like pidgin English are even more flexible in absorbing words from other languages, be it Portuguese, Yoruba, Ijaw or any other language. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by itstpia99: 3:22am On Mar 09, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by itstpia99: 3:26am On Mar 09, 2015 |
meoo: |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by itstpia99: 3:28am On Mar 09, 2015 |
gReenmAn: possibly the transatlantic slave trade contributed to this. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Ihuomadinihu: 7:53am On Mar 09, 2015 |
Portuguese traders and sea men first met the Igbo people before the Britian arrived igbo land. There was active commerce between the portuguese traders and the local igbo natives and other groups(Yoruba,Edo and Delta) living close to the sea. For communication purposes,the natives had to attempt speaking a few portugese words. This resulted to words like Pikin,Sabi etc. Pidgin is also know for its repetitive structure,e.g, Yama- Yama,Koro Koro, Doti Doti,etc. We have PH derived pidgin, Lagos derived pidgin and Warri derived pidgin. Lagos is also a Portuguese word. Nigerian Pidgin is heavily derived from Portuguese language and was influenced by English during colonialism. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by tpiadotcom: 5:38pm On May 20, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 10:49pm On May 20, 2015 |
It's actually from Portuguese pequeno. The English pickaninny was derived from the Portuguese word. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by seppuku: 4:36am On May 21, 2015 |
Radoillo:I agree I still believe the Pidgin spoken across Anglo phone west Africa was heavily influenced by the saro or krios of Sierre leone (Slaves descendants that returned to Africa) Out of all pidgin speakers the Sierra leonian version is the closet to the Nigerian, followed by English Cameroon, Ghana and Liberia, which is the hardest to comprehend. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by tpiadotcom: 3:04am On Jul 22, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 6:28am On Jul 22, 2015 |
tpiadotcom: No, that is not how it happened. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by tpiadotcom: 6:55am On Jul 22, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 8:28am On Jul 22, 2015 |
The history is well documented. 'Pikin' is one of the handful of Portuguese words that African brokers picked up from the Portuguese slave traders. Pickaninny just happens to be another word of the same etymological background. It's occurrence in the US doesn't imply that the West African 'Pikin' came from it. Both words (Pickaninny and Pikin) were independently derived from the Portuguese. In fact, a more plausible argument ( more plausible than deriving 'pikin' from 'pickaninny', that it) would be that African slaves who were already familiar with the use of 'pikin' on the West African Coast, took the word to America where it developed into 'pickaninny'. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by tpiadotcom: 12:31pm On Jul 22, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 1:23pm On Jul 22, 2015 |
Trying too hard? Wiki? How many times have I stated that I don't get my info from Wikipedia, and that I don't take people who do seriously? I...we...shouldn't be stressing over this. There are studies on West African Coast Pidgin by competent scholars that affirm that the word (along with at least half a dozen others) was borrowed from Portuguese traders during the time they were active slave traders on our shores. The English did not come seriously into that trade until at least a hundred years later. Even when the British (post-slave trade) began making their way up the creeks of the Niger Delta they found Niger Delta groups who still spoke tolerable Portuguese and its cousin, Spanish. I don't know why you want to believe that during the centuries of direct contact with the Portuguese, the Africans couldn't appropriate that word until the English learnt it and transmitted it to them. Did the English also learn and transmit 'sabi' (from Portuguese 'saber') and 'dash' ( from 'dacio') to West Coast Africans? Even in English-speaking North America, 'pickaninny' was originally used in reference to the enslaved Black Community, a fact that lends support to the theory that the word itself was taken to the Americas by West Africans who ALREADY knew the word from their dealings with Portuguese traders. Besides all this, and on a purely linguistic level, 'pickin' is closer to 'pequeno' (pronounced 'pickino') than it is to 'pickaninny'...which on its own indicates a direct 'pequeno-to-pickin' derivation, and not a roundabout 'pequeno-to-pickaninny-to-pickin' derivation. I'm actually surprised you want to argue about this. 1 Like |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by tpiadotcom: 1:30pm On Jul 22, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Nobody: 1:38pm On Jul 22, 2015 |
tpiadotcom:  I swear, I see no relationship between this and what we are debating. But you know what? There's not gonna be an end to this. So, yes, 'Pikin' was derived from English 'Pickaninny'. 1 Like |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by chijiblaze(m): 10:09am On Aug 25, 2016 |
tpia5: Pataki means Portuguese some people say Potokiri, still means the same thing. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by Sltp: 6:50am On Jan 07, 2023 |
Ifygurl: Nigerian pidgin is the oldest pidgin way back from the ancient Bini empire and the Iwere kingdoms when Warri and Bini had business relationship with the Portuguese. The pidgin was Portuguese based and mostly spoken by the elites before the coming of the English where it became predominantly English |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by RedboneSmith(m): 4:02pm On Jan 07, 2023 |
Lol. The origins of Nigerian pidgin English is complex and cannot be studied in isolation from other varieties of pidgin English spoken along the coast of West Africa (Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ghana) and the English creole languages spoken by people of African descent in the Americas. https://tribuneonlineng.com/common-ancestor-of-american-ebonics-and-west-african-pidgin-english/ |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by AreaFada2: 6:36pm On Jan 07, 2023 |
OneNaija:Pidgin has evolved over time. The earliest pidgin in Nigeria was Portuguese pidgin. In 9ja Delta, such as Benin, some of the elite and traders spoke Pidgin long before British colonisation. Some few elite spoke the official Portuguese in the 1500s already. Even today, there are Edo words derived from Portuguese such as Ekalaka derived from caneca, a Portuguese name for cup to drink shots of hot drinks, Ekuye (spoon) derived from colher in Portuguese, etc. Today, we say over-sabi, sabinus or too-know: It is from Portuguese saber (originally from sabere in Latin) to mean "know". Same root word for savoir (French), sapere (Italian), etc. Yes, Portuguese was the foundation but over time, French, Dutch, Spanish, German and others were added. Today, Nigeria languages form a big part of pidgin. Considering history of contact (Benin, Warri, etc) with Portuguese, it's no surprise that 9ja Delta leads in Pidgin. ND has many tribes, so a neutral language had to develop faster. Whereas most SW people speak Yoruba and NW/NE speak Hausa, even among lots of ethnic minorities there. |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by B2mario(m): 8:34pm On Jan 14, 2023 |
Nigerian and some part of Cameroun spoken pidgin English is 70% coined from Igbo language mainly the Igbo dialects in Niger delta. Example using pure Igbo, Aba anglicized Igbo and pidgin English. English: it is there Igbo: O di ebe ahu Aba anglicised Igbo: O di there Pidgin: e dey there English: what is inside? Igbo: gini di n'ime ya? Aba anglicised Igbo: gini di inside? Pidgin: wetin dey inside? English: I am fine Igbo: a dim mma Aba anglicised Igbo: a dim OK Pidgin: I dey OK English: where are you going? Igbo: ebe ka I na aga? Aba ngwa Igbo: ebe ka I di ga? Pidgin: where you dey go? English: it's been long Igbo: Otego aka Aba Igbo: Otee laka Pidgin: I don tee English: men Igbo: nnaa Aba anglicised Igbo: nna men Pidgin: nna men English: you people Igbo: unu Aba anglicised Igbo: unu Pidgin: una English: I am coming Igbo: anam abia Aba ngwa Igbo: a dim ibia Pidgin: I dey come English: what is your name? Igbo: kee ihe/gini bu aha gi? Aba ngwa Igbo: o bu gini bu aha gi? Pidgin: wetin be your name? English: who's there? Igbo: onye no ebe ahu? Aba ngwa Igbo: onye di ebe ahu? Pidgin: who dey there? English: greed Igbo: anya ukwu (eye = anya, ukwu = big) Aba ngwa Igbo: anya ukwu Pidgin: big eye English: -------- Igbo: akpiri ogologo (akpiri = throat, ogologo= longer) Aba ngwa Igbo: akpiri ogologo Pidgin: longer throat English: what is it/that? Igbo: O bu gini? Aba ngwa Igbo: O bu gini/ gini bu Ihe ahu? Pidgin: wetin be that? English: boss/rich man Igbo: Oganaya (short form: oga) Aba ngwa Igbo: oga Pidgin: oga English: servant Igbo: odibo (short form: boi) Aba anglicised Igbo: boyi or boyi-boyi Pidgin: boyi-boyi English: he is serving Igbo: o na emee odibo or o na agba odibo Aba ngwa Igbo: o di imee boyi Pidgin: e dey do boyi-boyi English: I don't do it Igbo: muwa anaghi eme ya Aba ngwa Igbo: muwa adi imee ya Pidgin: me, I no dey do am (y'am) English: I don't know him Igbo: amaghim ya Aba ngwa Igbo: amam ya Pidgin: I no know y'am (am) English: what is happening? Igbo: o gini na eme? Aba ngwa Igbo: o gini di ime? Pidgin: wetin dey happen? English: he is going to Lagos Igbo: o na aga Lagos Aba ngwa Igbo: o di iga Lagos Pidgin: e dey go Lagos English: the water is on Igbo: mmiri na agba (agba = run or rush) Igbo ngwa Igbo: mmiri di igba Pidgin: the water dey rush. English: I am Igbo: a bum Aba ngwa Igbo: a bum Pidgin: I be English: it is (as in, it is my friend) Igbo: o bu Aba ngwa Igbo: o bu Pidgin: e be English: it is (as in, it is there) Igbo: o di Aba ngwa Igbo: o di Pidgin: e dey English: stay quiet Igbo: no di jim or wayo Igbo ngwa Igbo: no di Jim Pidgin: dey jim (Niger delta pidgin) etc. English: she is pregnant Igbo: o di ime Aba ngwa Igbo: o di ime Pidgin: e dey pregnant/get belle |
| Re: Is Pidgin English From Portuguese? by RedboneSmith(m): 7:23am On Jan 15, 2023 |
B2mario: Boy, quit playing. 1 Like |
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