brocab:
Dolphinheart quote is> pls state where I said or implied that I don't believe Paul o! or where I said he does not have the Spirit of God in him!
Is this a miss print? JW's don't believe in the Spirit of God, as I recall the JW's believe the Holy Spirit is an active force.
The answer to the above question? "When you denied Paul wasn't a partaker of the divine nature, before He died.
Christ said we are in Him, and He is in us, we are branches in the vine, We are all members in one body, we are one Spirit in the Lord.

If you were a Christian you would know this. But you don't.
Matter of fact you aren't even saved, dolphinheart repent before its to late, if you don't you will end up in Hell fire with all your ancestors who have gone before you' don't be a fool turn from your evil ways, and ask the Lord for your forgiveness, Jesus is the only One who can forgive sins.

God raised the dead through the prophets? Not the prophets in the flesh raised the dead.
{1 kings 17:17-24} The widow of Zarephath's son, Elijah took the boy from her arms, and went into the upper room, and PRAYED "LORD MY GOD let this boy's life return to him.
Faithful men and women of God in the Old Testament and the New Testament were given this same gift the disciples had while raising the dead. O/T In the name of the Lord-N/T in the name of the Lord Jesus. Same name, different time flames.

They are all partakers of the divine nature.
Of course the disciples were flesh, Elijah was in the flesh-Jesus came to earth as a man-he suffered in the flesh-but Jesus is divine, and His disciples like Elijah were partakers of the divine nature. Both in different time flames, Old and New Testaments both believers prayed to the Lord, for all healing's.

And everyone in this day and age who decides to become a born again Christian, Jesus had made away for us to be partakers of the divine nature too. And when we pray and seek God's kingdom, and seek after His word, we are blessed, just as Elijah or Elisha and the disciples were blessed with the Spirit of God. As partakers of His divine nature, that we become one as He is One in us. Amen...
Elisha's performed a healing he was full of God's Spirit, after he had died, a man touched his bones and was completely healed.
The widow of Nain's son Jesus touch his coffin and raised him from the dead.
None of the prophets could heal anybody without being partakers of the divine.

dolphinheart:

why don't you pay tithe?
I Did not give you meaningless quotation, those words are from the scriptures.
It is not about shekels , it is about the customs of the Jews taken from the mosaic law to pay a certain amount of money to the temple . This money is not tithe!, when the Jews where asking Jesus about the temple tax, it was about that tax instituted on the Jews and not tithe! hope you get it now




sir, tithe and taxes are not the same, there are also not interchangeable!. you don't De ide to pay one and leave the other, you don't Decide to select which one to pay.!, the rules governing both are different and distinct!
The isrealities also pay other taxes that are not under the mosaic law.


you should have quoted the verse na!


did you read my post at all? who are the sons that don't pay tax? , you wunt be able to answer!


sir , since no law commanding Christians to gather on any day was changed, gathering together on a particular day , including Sundays is not wrong, witnesses gather together on any day of the week convenient for such gatherings .

I met up and gather in different places of worship with all other witnesses on Sunday , Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday , Saturday. The day we gather and meet is based on convenience and not on any set rule.

you have refused to show us the law that you believed was changed. you have refused to tell us who the law is for!, you gave vehemently refused to tell us how you came about Sabbath Saturday. You asked a faulty question, based on parameters that do not exist! and you have still refused to explain them .

again you did not respond to this issues :
this are the points I made which you refused to respond to
1. hope the info will include how you came about sabbath sartu r day, and how Christians are to worship on sabbath sartuday!
2. as a Christian, what day did the scriptures tell you to worship !
3. pls, include birthday to this pagan influenced doctrine o!
4. you have once again failed to quote and explain this scriptures :
Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Jo 5:20But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting
1Co 1:3May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6 there is actually to us one God, the Father from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
Joh 20:17Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
brocab, my god is not unknown, he is the god of Jesus, the father, the almighty God, Jehovah!

"your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!."

johnw74:
v

Lie Lie dolphinheart
said concerning God and the Word:


^

brocab:
Dolphinheart had finely admitted he believes in {1 John 5:20} Just look at my last post to Him, and read down the page. He wrote it so he must believe it.

johnw74:


1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

I and many agree with you bro, a sentence like the bold usually refer to the immediate person mentioned, and that Is Jesus Christ in this case.
John and other Bible writers show in many places like this one, that God and the Word is God as in John 1:1, the Spirit is needed to see them.


Albert barnes Commentary snippets:
(1) the grammatical construction here favors Christ being the true God mentioned. Christ is the immediate antecedent of the pronoun "this"

(2) this construction seems to be demanded by the adjunct which John has assigned to the phrase “the true God” - “eternal life.” This is an expression which John would be likely to apply to the Lord Jesus, considered as “life,” [end]



Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the life, the eternal life as in 1John 5:20 and the true God referred to in that verse, along with the Father.

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)




By the way, "this" like "it" is a pronoun and as can be seen, "this" is used for "the true God", pronouns can be used for animals and persons as well as things. John didn't say, "He is" the true God, he said, "this is"

Just a little grammar lesson for some, who won't believe it, hell they don't even believe the Bible, the Truth is not in them, they love to believe a lie.

dolphinheart:

your cunny tactics will get you no where!
I've stated several times, giving you details about how having spirit of God leads to your transformation from fleshly nature to divine nature. you saw that, you ignored it, only to come falsely accuse me of saying Paul never had the spirit of God in him.
You are cunning individual brocab, I've told you that paul still awaiting that promise, (which I quoted to you) and it's at the fulfillment of that hope(which he will get at the end) that will enable him to change from his fleshly nature to divine nature. you saw all this and you saw where Ive explained the relationship between divine mature and spirit of God, yet you felt you could Still bring up this false accusation.
that you could not point to where I said Paul did not have spirit of God in him has shown your accusation to be false, that I could tell you that Paul did indeed had the spirit I him shows how far you could go to lay false accusations .



thank you.



if you had not removed gods name from the scriptures you will know better, and if you had read the scriptures without predetermined views, you would not have said such

2 kings 4 :32-35
32 When E·liʹsha came into the house, the boy was lying dead on his bed.
33 He went in and closed the door behind them both and began to pray to Jehovah.
34 Then he got up on the bed and lay down on the child and put his own mouth on the boy’s mouth, his own eyes on his eyes, and his own palms on his palms and kept bent over him, and the child’s body started to grow warm.
35 He walked back and forth in the house, and he got up on the bed and bent over him again. The boy sneezed seven times, after which he opened his eyes.

who Did Elisha pray to ? Jehovah
therefore who really resurrected that child ? Jehovah
hold this thought.

luke 7: 13-16
13.When the Lord caught sight of her, he was moved with pity for her, and he said to her: “Stop weeping.”
14 With that he approached and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still. Then he said: “Young man, I say to you, get up!”
15 And the dead man sat up and started to speak, and Jesus gave him to his mother.
16 Now fear seized them all, and they began to glorify God, saying: “A great prophet has been raised up among us,” and, “God has turned his attention to his people.”
who where did people glorifying? God.
who did they call Jesus in respect to God? A great prophet!
hold this thought too?

john 11: 21,22,27,40-44
21Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.”
27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”
40 Jesus said to her: “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”
41 So they took the stone away. Then Jesus raised his eyes heavenward and said: “Father, I thank you that you have heard me.
42. True, I knew that you always hear me; but I spoke on account of the crowd standing around, so that they may believe that you sent me.”
43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: “Lazʹa·rus, come out!” 44. The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”

who did Martha ascribe the power to live to ? God
what did Martha say concerning Jesus and God? Martha said " I know that wateva you ask God, God will give you!"
does Martha belief that Jesus is same person as God ? no , she said Jesus gods son, and Jesus raised no objection.
did Jesus pray to the father before resurrecting lazarus? Yes!
who did Jesus call the father? The only true god !
who did Jesus and the disciples call our only God? The father!
so who do we ascribe the resurrection to, Jesus or the father? it is to the father who heard Jesus!
through whom Did Jesus say he performed his powerful works? The father!
who did Jesus say showed him how to perform those powerful works? The father!

Now let's go to the resurrection as performed by the disciples .
Ac 9:40Peter then put everyone outside, and kneeling down, he prayed. Then turning toward the body, he said: “Tabʹi·tha, rise!” She opened her eyes, and as she caught sight of Peter, she sat up.

By what power did the disciples perform those works? by the power of the holy spirit
who gave them the holy spirit? see for yourself brocab

Ac 10:38about Jesus who was from Nazʹa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil, because God was with him.

Ac 1:8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

Lu 24:49And look! I am sending upon you what my Father promised. You, though, stay in the city until you are clothed with power....

Joe 2:28 After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, And your sons and your daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, And your young men will see visions.
brocab, I do hope you will read this scriptures and understand, or you will do what you do , and that is, change the issue under discuss.

Why did the disciples do this in the name of Jesus since the power to do so comes from God !
[b]Ac 4:9, 10if we are being examined today about a good deed to a crippled man, and you want to know who made this man well,10let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·reneʹ, whom you executed on a stake but whom God raised up from the dead, by means of him this man stands here healthy in front of you.

Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 14:26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Joh 14:12Most truly I say to you, whoever exercises faith in me will also do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father

Joh 14:13Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son.

Joh 15:16You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go and keep bearing fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that no matter what you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON OF ALL

john 5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man.

do you understand the scriptures posted, if you do let us know.
read this verse too!

[b]Da 7:13“I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.


false analogy


let me explain it to you once more
Jesus Christ is called “the firstborn from the dead.” He was the first ever to be resurrected to everlasting life.
col 1:18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things

And his resurrection was “in the spirit,” to life in heaven.
1 peter 3:18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit

He was raised to a higher form of life and a higher position than that which he had held in the heavens prior to coming to earth. He was granted immortality and incorruption, which no creature in the flesh can have, and was made “higher than the heavens,” second only to Jehovah God in the universe.
heb 7:26 For it is fitting for us to have such a high priest who is loyal, innocent, undefiled, separated from the sinners, and exalted above the heavens

phil 2 : 9-11 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground — and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

1 cor 15:27,28 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
read also 1 ti 6: 14-16 , acts 2:34

His resurrection was performed by Jehovah God himself.
acts 3:15:- whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses

acts 5:30-32 :- The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”

rom 4:24 :-but also for our sake, to whom it will be counted, because we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.
read also romantic 10:9

” Those who are “called and chosen and faithful,” Christ’s footstep followers, his “brothers,” who are spiritually begotten as “God’s children,” are promised a resurrection like his.
rev 17:14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.

rom 6:5 :- If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection

heb 2:11 :- For both the one who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this reason he is not ashamed to call them brothers

The apostle Peter writes to fellow Christians: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you.”— . 1 peter 1:3,4

Peter also describes the hope such ones possess as “precious and very grand promises, that through these you may become sharers in divine nature.” - 2 peter 1:4

They must undergo a change of nature, giving up human nature to obtain “divine” nature, thus sharing with Christ in his glory. They must die a death like Christ’s—maintaining integrity and giving up human life forever— and then they receive immortal, incorruptible bodies like Christ’s by a resurrection. - rom 6:3-5; 1Co 15:50-57; 2Co 5:1-3

The apostle Paul explains that it is not the body that is resurrected, but rather, he likens their experience to the planting and sprouting of a seed, in that “God gives it a body just as it has pleased him.”- 1 co 15:35-40

It is the soul, the person, that is resurrected, with a body to suit the environment into which God resurrects him.

In the case of Jesus Christ, he gave up his human life as a ransom sacrifice for the benefit of mankind. The 40th Psalm is applied to him by the inspired writer of the book of Hebrews, who represents Jesus as saying, when he came “into the world” as God’s Messiah: “Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me.” (heb 10:5 ) Jesus himself said: “For a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (john 6:51)

It follows that Christ could not take his body back again in the resurrection, thereby taking back the sacrifice offered to God for mankind. Besides, Christ was no longer to abide on earth. His “home” is in the heavens with his Father, who is not flesh, but spirit. Jesus Christ therefore received a glorious immortal, incorruptible body, for “he is the reflection of [Jehovah’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places. So he has become better than the angels [who are themselves mighty spirit persons], to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.”— . Heb 1:3, 4; 10:12, 13

Christ’s faithful brothers, who join him in the heavens, give up human life. The apostle Paul shows that they have to have new bodies repatterned, or refashioned, for their new environment: “As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has.”— phil 3:20,21

dolphinheart:

why don't you pay tithe?
I Did not give you meaningless quotation, those words are from the scriptures.
It is not about shekels , it is about the customs of the Jews taken from the mosaic law to pay a certain amount of money to the temple . This money is not tithe!, when the Jews where asking Jesus about the temple tax, it was about that tax instituted on the Jews and not tithe! hope you get it now




sir, tithe and taxes are not the same, there are also not interchangeable!. you don't De ide to pay one and leave the other, you don't Decide to select which one to pay.!, the rules governing both are different and distinct!
The isrealities also pay other taxes that are not under the mosaic law.


you should have quoted the verse na!


did you read my post at all? who are the sons that don't pay tax? , you wunt be able to answer!


sir , since no law commanding Christians to gather on any day was changed, gathering together on a particular day , including Sundays is not wrong, witnesses gather together on any day of the week convenient for such gatherings .

I met up and gather in different places of worship with all other witnesses on Sunday , Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday , Saturday. The day we gather and meet is based on convenience and not on any set rule.

you have refused to show us the law that you believed was changed. you have refused to tell us who the law is for!, you gave vehemently refused to tell us how you came about Sabbath Saturday. You asked a faulty question, based on parameters that do not exist! and you have still refused to explain them .

again you did not respond to this issues :
this are the points I made which you refused to respond to
1. hope the info will include how you came about sabbath sartu r day, and how Christians are to worship on sabbath sartuday!
2. as a Christian, what day did the scriptures tell you to worship !
3. pls, include birthday to this pagan influenced doctrine o!
4. you have once again failed to quote and explain this scriptures :
Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Jo 5:20But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting
1Co 1:3May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6 there is actually to us one God, the Father from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
Joh 20:17Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
brocab, my god is not unknown, he is the god of Jesus, the father, the almighty God, Jehovah!

solite3:


Dolphinshear,t you need Jesus

please who is a false god?
King James Version

so if somebody spoke the truth, he is truly God? Who is a true God

there was error in my post due to autocorrect on my phone. What I meant was that I never told you that moon, the stars and the sun are not hosts of heaven but also angels and demons are called hosts of heaven. So back to Genesis when the bible mention heaven, it never differentiated it. It is people like you because of doctrine that twist

didn't you read where angels are called hosts of heaven or you are blind. Is not the bible that said it.? Angels can be worshipped which Paul warned Christians against.

so are you saying demons can't be worshipped because they are invisible?

When somebody carved wood into any form or use iron or gold to worship are they worshipping demons? Yes, are those iron gold or woods demons themselves ? No. So , if somebody worship sun moon or star they are worshipping demons but those objects are not demons themselves.

you have. Initially you were almost swearing that angels are not called hosts of heaven and that hosts of heaven only refers to sun moon and stars go back and read your garbage in which you were also quoting other versions just to discredit what I said. So worship directed to the sun moon or star where actually for the invisible hosts of heaven.

yes peter came to know Christ before Paul do u know that. Also the bible mention man before woman and Paul actually said man was created before woman. Also God before Christ I can go on and on. So my dear dolphinsheart there is order in the bible know it today, that is y people who distort the word of God will have it hot before God mean while heaven was created before earth. That's the order.

go and read your bible and tell me what day did God create the sun moon and stars.

angels can be worshipped that is why the bible condemns worshipping the hosts of heaven. Have you heard of the queen of heaven?

such knowledge is too high for you. The difference between you people and Christians is that Christians have the holy spirit which enables them to see further than you

it is obvious that you are the liar here

but the bible says those who overcomes will also be given the name morning star does that mean they will become angels

Revelations 2:28 tells you that all who overcomes will be given the name morning star does that mean they become angels?

y don't you respond to the issue that Christians will be given the morning stars. Does that mean they will become angels

all you know how to do is asking baseless questions. It is obvious that morning star is a title not only to angels but can be given to men. Shalom.

johnw74:


No end to Lie Lie dolphinheart's denial and lies,

false jw dolphinheart repeats the same lies over and over again, of course.



Lie Lie dolphinheart said concerning God and the Word: "your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!."



It seems unbelievable that one who denies and lies so many times about what he knows he said, can call himself a Jehovahs Witness, there in shows the evil of that sect.

brocab:
So you do believe in all these scriptures below? This Isn't a mistake? Does this mean you had finely come to your senses, and you agree with {1 JOHN 5:20} Is this true? Dolphinheart I am surprised, after all this time-you have finely agreed "Christ is the true God.

{1 JOHN 5:20} We in union with the one who is true, by means of His son Jesus Christ, This is the true God and life everlasting.
If you truly believe this "then I know, you worship the true God.
We Christians have been telling you this from the beginning, you have made many Christians proud dolphinheart you had finely come to the truth. Amen,,,,

That's right I don't tithe, Do you?

Jesus said to Peter whom of the kings of the Earth receive Customs Or taxes, from Strangers all from their Sons, Peter answered from Strangers, Jesus then said, then the {Earthly} Sons are free.
The Strangers pay-but the Kings Sons don't pay, and speaking we are Sons of the most high, and if we are Children of God, then we are the Sons and daughters of the King of Kings, Jesus said the Sons are free.
And if you continual to read the rest of {Matthew 17} you will find Jesus didn't want to argue the point, so He sent Peter to the sea.
So it's unlikely that it was Jesus's Customs to pay Taxes in Capernaum.

Jesus said give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. And Give to God what belongs to God. And this old law continual's until this day, no-one has changed this law..

Under the Customs acts, Taxes and Customs were given as a percentage. Customs were under the tithing act, both Tithes and Taxes had a percentage. 23% or a 10% system. This is where the money is Dolphinheart Pastors from your Church and other Churches are ripping of the people, changing the course of the Tithe, Purgatory, etc... While our Governments continual to obey the Tax Law..

dolphinheart:


well they must find an excuse for
1.not being to post the post where I made the statement
2. not being able to show where the responded to my explanation!

they will say anything else , but to show you this two things above, THEY WILL REFUSE!
they will keep on concerning my words with theirs, but they will have not post that post!
plus remember , up till now , he has not apologised for lying against me that I said " god is a two headed god" or did you not accuse me of saying such ?

"your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!."

dolphinheart:

when you decide to open you eyes , you will see the truth. at no time I've I ever said to you or agreed with you that Christ is the true god, your attempt to cunningly say I finally agreed to such falsehood will not work!, so your suprise is only a fiction of your imagination.


who is the true god ? The father, Jehovah. This statement jesus confirmed to be true when he said in John 17:3

Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

1Jo 5:20But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.
did that verse say jesus is the true god? no!

let us examine what the verse says
" but we know that the son of God has come and has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one one who is true" . This statement tells us that the son of God , who is jesus came to give us insight about the one who is true. The statement did not say jesus came to give knowledge about himself, neither did it state jesus said he is the one who is true.
what insight did jesus give, this insight we can find in John 17:3 where jesus identified the only true god , jesus identified the only true god as the father! and he later told Mary that the father is our God!.

John continues to say " we are in union with the one who is true , by means of his son jesus Christ"(kjv says " even in his son jesus christ). A sincere mind would easily know that the one who is true, which jesus has identified as the father is different from jesus .
We are in union with the one who is true (the father) by means of his son(jesus christ)

[b]Joh 17:20, 21“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word,
21[u]so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.[/u]

John continues to state " this is the true god and life evalasting"
brocab will not agree with jesus who had given him insight of who the true god is. In fact , jesus said knowledge of the true god and of him leads to evaluating life!.

let's not take my words alone, let's examine what others had to say :

1. Many Trinitarians claim that the final sentence in the verse, “This is the true God,” refers to Jesus Christ, since the closest noun to “This” is “Jesus Christ.” However, since God and Jesus are both referred to in the first sentence of the verse, the final sentence can refer to either one of them. The word “this,” which begins the last sentence, is houtos, and a study of it will show that the context, not the closest noun or pronoun, must determine to whom “this” is referring. The Bible provides examples of this, and a good one is in Acts 7:18 and 19 ( KJV ): “Till another king arose, which knew not Joseph. The same ( houtos) dealt subtilly with our kindred…, and evil entreated our fathers, so that they cast out their young children, to the end they might not live.” It is clear from this example that “the same” ( houtos ) cannot refer to Joseph, even though Joseph is the closest noun. It refers to the other king earlier in the verse, even though that evil king is not the closest noun.

If it were true that pronouns always referred to the closest noun, serious theological problems would result. An example is Acts 4:10 and 11: “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This [houtos ] is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner” ( KJV ). If “This” in the last sentence refers to the closest noun or pronoun, then the man who was healed is actually the stone rejected by the builders that has become the head of the corner, i.e., the Christ. Of course, that is not true.

An even more troublesome example for those not recognizing that the context, not noun and pronoun placement, is the most vital key in determining proper meaning, is 2 John 1:7: “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist” ( KJV) . The structure of this verse closely parallels the structure of the verse we are studying. If one insists that the final phrase of 1 John 5:20 refers to Jesus because he is the closest associated noun, then that same person is going to be forced by his own logic to insist that Jesus Christ is a deceiver and an antichrist, which of course is absurd. Thus we conclude that, although the last phrase of 1 John 5:20 may refer to Jesus Christ, it can just as easily refer to God, who appears in the phrase “Son of God” and, via the possessive pronoun “his,” in the phrase “ his Son Jesus.” To which of the two it refers must be determined from studying the words in the verse and the remoter context.

2. Once it is clear that the last sentence in the verse can refer to either Jesus or God, it must be determined which of the two it is describing. The context and remoter context will determine to whom the phrase “true God” applies. The result of that examination is that the phrase “true God” is used four times in the Bible beside here: 2 Chronicles 15:3; Jeremiah 10:10; John 17:3 and 1 Thessalonians 1:9. In all four of these places, the “true God” refers to the Father and not the Son. Especially relevant is John 17:3, which is Jesus’ prayer to God. In that prayer, Jesus calls God “the only true God.” These examples are made more powerful by the consideration that 1 John is a late epistle, and thus the readers of the Bible were already used to God being called the “true God.” Add to that the fact that John is the writer of both the Gospel of John and the Epistles of John, and he would be likely to use the phrase the same way. Thus, there is every reason to believe that the “true God” of 1 John 5:20 is the heavenly Father, and there is no precedent for believing that it refers to the Son.

3. From studying the immediate context, we learn that this very verse mentions “him that is true” two times, and both times it refers to the Father. Since the verse twice refers to the Father as “the one who is true,” that is a strong argument that “the true God” in the last part of the verse is the same being.

4. Not all Trinitarians believe that the last sentence in the verse refers to the Son. A study of commentators on the verse will show that a considerable number of Trinitarian scholars say that this phrase refers to the Father. Norton and Farley each give a list of suchscholars. In his commentary on 1 John, Lenski writes that although the official explanation of the Church is to make the sentence refer to the Son:

This exegesis of the church is now called a mistake by a number of commentators who believe in the full deity of Jesus as it is revealed in Scripture but feel convinced that this houtos clause speaks of the Father and not of His Son.
www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/1-john-5-20

"[1 John]5.20-21. Knowing the true God;... The Greek of 5:20 has only the true (one) and reads literally: we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding 'so that we know the true(one) and we are in the true(one)', in his Son Jesus Christ. 'This (one) is the true God and eternal life.' It is clear from this that 'the true (one)' is God throughout. Christ is his Son . In the final sentence this (one) most naturally refers still to God, not to Christ, as some have suggested. It is not unknown for Christ to be given God's name(Phil. 2:9-11) or even to be called 'God' (Heb. 1:8-9; John 1:1), but that would run contrary to the theme here, which is contrasting true and false understandings of God for which Christ's revelation is the criterion.
"5:20 reminds us of Jesus' prayer according to John 17:3: 'This is eternal life: to know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent...."- William Loader, The Johannine Epistles , Epworth Commentaries, 1992, p.79.(This commentary uses the Revised English Bible (1989) for it's quotations.)

"The final sentence of verse 20 runs: This is the true God, and eternal life . To whom does this refer? Grammatically speaking, it would normally refer to the nearest preceding subject, namely his Son Jesus Christ . If so, this would be the most unequivocal statement of the deity of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, which the champions of orthodoxy were quick to exploit against the heresy of Arius. Luther and Calvin adopted this view. Certainly it is by no means an impossible interpretation. Nevertheless, 'the most natural reference'(Westcott) is to him that is true . [u]In this way the three references to 'the true' are to the same Person, the Father, and the additional points made in the apparent final repetition are that is is this One, namely the God made known by Jesus Christ, who is the true God[/b] , and that, besides this, He is eternal life ...."-The Epistles of John, An Introduction and Commentary by The Rev.J.R.W.Stott, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, Tyndale Press, London, !st edition, July 1964, p.195, 196[/b]




the question was : why don't you pay tithe?


you are wrong, all isrealities where required to pay that tax, that jesus is legally exempted from that tax does not mean he did not follow the custom. and as you can see, that tax is different from tithe.


old law? when Did it become an old law?

and you could not quote scriptures nor site any reliable source to support the above.
taxes and tithe are two different things for different purposes with different lawstyles guiding them, TAXES AND TITHES ARE NOT THE SAME

again you did not respond to this issues :
this are the points I made which you refused to respond to
1. hope the info will include how you came about sabbath sartu r day, and how Christians are to worship on sabbath sartuday!
2. as a Christian, what day did the scriptures tell you to worship !
3. pls, include birthday to this pagan influenced doctrine o!
4. you have once again failed to quote and explain this scriptures :
Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Jo 5:20But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting
1Co 1:3May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6 there is actually to us one God, the Father from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
Joh 20:17Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”
brocab, my god is not unknown, he is the god of Jesus, the father, the almighty God, Jehovah!

Brandel:
Every good man in the Bible was led by the spirid of God. Our problem is that most of our believes don't come from the Holy spirit. They mostly come from human thinking.
Look at the apostles of Christ. They never went out to preach without the instruction of the holy spirit. But Christian today; we don't even know what God is saying. We just go out without listening first from God.
Let's tell ourselves the truth. Jesus is the word of God. So you can't understand the word of God without the Holy spirit.
Without the holy spirit. We will keep defending churches instead of preaching Christ

johnw74:


1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

johnw74:



John said in 1John 5:20 that the true God "is eternal life"

John shows 1John 1:2 "that eternal life" is Jesus

John again shows in John 14:6 that "the life - that eternal life" is Jesus.


Also you see that in 1John 5:20, we are in the Father and the Son.

Just as the Father and Jesus is in us:

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and [size=14pt]we[/size] will come unto him, and make [size=14pt]our[/size] abode with him.

brocab:
Opp's did dolphinheart make a mistake once again-I am not interested in trying to read around your excuses, my only focus was on {1 John 5:20} and as clear as day, the scripture tells us who Christ is. By means of His Son Jesus Christ "This is" {Meaning Jesus Christ} is the true God and everlasting life. John didn't say "that is the true God" and everlasting life-John said "this is the true God"and everlasting life.
{1 john 1:2} This everlasting life was with the Father. So who is John talking about?
It won't matter to me dolphinheart what you have written, it's already written. either you believe it or not.
Trying to deny it' because what other disbelievers had said this verse "could be" a mistake-won't change the scripture, and trying to break the scripture down won't support you at all, You had written this scripture down, because at the time dolphinheart you had believed it, this is the truth.
Every true Christian knows the bible is Spiritual, and everything that comes from the bible is from God. Trying to work it out from your own minds won't give you any understanding about the bible.
{Jesus had already told His people how to gain this information, one must be born again before he/she could enter into the kingdom of God}
Their is no back door into heaven.
And because I had brought this subject up, you felt, by trying to break the scripture down comparing it with other scriptures, you may have a case against {1 John 5:20} Well dolphinheart all I can say is 'you are walking up the wrong path-this scripture say's it all, '1 John had explained it as it sounds, In His Son-Jesus Christ-this is the true God and everlasting Life.
And who is the one who gives the everlasting life {Jesus Christ} No-one comes to the Father accept through Him.


[size=18pt]It shows God can speak through anybody-He even spoke through one of your ancestors a donkey-so nothing surprises me.[/size]


Trying to defend yourself in front of all your comrades, just shows you are either terrified that the rest will judge you, because you believed in {1 John 5:20} at the time. Maybe you are afraid your comrades will send you back to the bottom of the classroom, and you will have to be retrained once again, until you learn how to be a professional liar like the rest of the Watchtower believers are proven to be.
Don't try and fight against it dolphinheart-God had spoken through you, so the rest may fear, the Lord God is One. Stand straight and don't look back, you wrote this verse because you believed it.
{1 john 5:20} For we know the Son of God has come and Has given us understanding, so we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is True, in His Son Jesus Christ, this is the true God and everlasting life.
{1 John 1:2} "This everlasting Life was with the Father.
{John 14:6} I am the way and the truth and the life no-one comes to the Father accept through Me.
You should try and read it from the 1611 bible, it gives you a clear view how the scriptures should sound.

Whom Am I writing too? Everything I had written explaining to you between the Tithes and Taxes you are still having trouble to understand any of it?
Jesus didn't pay Tithes in His own country nor in someone else's country. Nor was He happy to pay Taxes, when He visited Capernaum.
Does this sentence tell you Taxes and Tithes are the same "No" So why do you keep on repeating I am telling you the Taxes and Tithes are the same meanings. Completely different' but they worked on the same principle, they both had a percentage added to them.

johnw74:


Ha ha, I like the humour you throw in every now and then.

brocab:
Thanks bro-I find most times after writing to dolphinheart his replies doesn't match up to my quotes, He completely talks about something different; which sometimes confuses the subject we are on.
So I throw in that little humour, hoping some how he may connect, tuning himself back into the program.
As you can see he writes these scriptures down without having any wisdom and knowledge to even consider understanding what these scriptures actually mean, to prove his point.
I like it when he falls into the pit digging his hole deeper after he realises he had made a terrible mistake.
{1 John 5:20} is as clear as it sounds.
The JW's go on a point system, and they believe they are saved only by their works. So if they fail the JW's will vanish him from Kingdom hall. Which means his blood family he once knew will no-longer exist.
"How does one catch a liar? It's when a lair keeps on digging deep trying to find other ways to prove his wrongs.
And dolphinheart always uses this same system, hoping no-one will catch him lying even further.

Jozzy4:


well done dolpinheart . your responses here are gold to people with sincere hearts .


Mr brocab, scripture doesn't contradict itself , who did Jesus identify as the true God ?

brocab:
Lets all praise dolphinheart, by lifting him up above all other names either in heaven or on Earth or under the Earth.
Let the JW's worship him-building him up in Gold, and shall they call him the king of kings of the scriptures-that every JW shall bow and every tongue shall confess that dolphinheart is Lord.
Well done good and faithful servant-the JW's can only respond to your faithful sincere heart, you have written against the truth, that is written about the word of God.
Lets make a new day from the seventh day-we will make it the 8th day to celebrate, a new holiday, a new beginning' a day that everyone worships dolphinheart as our Lord and savour. Written and signed by Jozzy4.

johnw74:


Ha ha, I like the humour you throw in every now and then.

brocab:
You are a JW are you not? You praised dolphinheart like he is your lord and savour, and because I had responded to your reply, you praised Him even more? You should try and be come a Born again Christian before you make any judgements against Christ.
Jesus said you must become born again before you can enter into the kingdom of God-their is no back door into heaven.
Once you have made your decision towards Christ-your eye's will open up to any truth that exist that's written in the bible.
Theirs no-other God but one. Jesus Christ is Lord.

brocab:
Thanks, my last page-when speaking about the little humour I throw in every now again, Sorry I didn't want to sound I was over the top about it, all I wanted to do was catch a JW, and it worked.
Jozzy4 had answered to my call-and on top of all that, she worships dolphinheart, If we had people like Jozzy4 worshipping God, instead they prefer to worship each other, we could have a riot on our hands, we would have true blue Christians coming from all directions.

brocab:
After reading your page it shows you don't understand the differences between a partaker of the divine nature, and fully having the divine nature after we die. We can be partakers of the divine-that doesn't mean we are fully divine, the disciples were partakers until their flesh died, after their death they became fully divine, like the Lord is divine-once we become born again we are on our journey to become fully divine to be with the Lord after our flesh dies.
Having the Spirit of God residing inside us-He is building us up-so when the time comes we will be ready to become fully divine like He is divine in heaven. At the moment we are partakers of the divine nature.

But of course you believe otherwise 'no-one has the divine nature before they die-So you need to explain how is it, that you don't believe Elisha's bones were a partaker of God's anointing well after he had died?-If he wasn't a partaker of the divine nature before he died, then you need to explain how one man had touched his bones and was completely healed.
This man was healed instantly? Elisha at this time would have been fully in his divine body with the Lord-while his bones laid back on earth in the ground, still having God's divine healing power.
So of course this proves, not only was Elisha being a partaker of the divine nature before he died-he was fully divine after he had died-while his bones laid in the ground still having the partakers divine nature. "Why is that"?
If you say No to this question-then where did Elisha's bones receive it's power to instantly heal live people?
Please Explain

Not cunning the problem with your statement, with Paul being filled with the Spirit of God {Holy Spirit filled}, the point is JW's don't even believe in the Spirit of God-you may say you do, but you believe more on the fact the Spirit is an Active force. An active force couldn't reside in a body long enough, the description of an active force is described like it's electricity hitting you and bouncing off quickly.

So how can you say Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit?
This is why you can't believe he is a partaker of the divine nature. believe it or not-the Father the Son and the Spirit is divine. And if Paul has the Spirit of God-then Paul's a partaker of that divine, like Christ was a partaker of flesh and blood {Hebrews 2:14, 3:14} And we have become partakers of Christ.

We are partakers of His Divine Nature {2 Peter 1:4}
We are partakers of His Holiness {Hebrews 12:10}

We are partakers of the Holy Spirit {Hebrews 6:4}
[b] King James Version
Heb 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and WERE MADE partakers of the Holy Ghost,
did you see the difference there? they were capitalised for all to see!

[quote]We are partakers of the heavenly calling {Hebrews 3:1}

We are partakers of His suffering {1 peter 4:13}

We are partakers in God's promise the Christ {Ephesians 3:6}

We are partakers of fruit {1 Timothy 2:6}
sir, it seems you do not read the scriptures you mentioned, I remember asking you about scriptures you mentioned but can't be found in the bible, you refused to respond to that post or that issue again!
King James Version
1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

[quote]We are partakers of the afflictions of the gospel {2 Timothy 1:8}

King James Version
2Ti 1:8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

[quote]We are partakers of Christ's Glory {1 Peter 5:1}

So you see dolphinheart when the scriptures shows us the truth in whom are partakers of the divine, then your details trying to prove the bible's wrong and you are right, Like Elisha His bones had God's anointing still in his bones well after he had died, are you listening dolphinheart Elisha had so much of God's divine in him; that even after he had died, his bones, healed a man completely.

So this proves Elisha was a partaker of the divine nature before he died-not after he died.

brocab:
No-one is refusing anything-the problem is you don't understand the scriptures.
Their are two types of payments, that had a percentage %. The Custom tithes and the Taxes-the Taxes worked back then, the same as today.

In some countries they have what they call a GST Tax. This Tax is everything we buy, we are Taxed on. From the day you are born to the day you die, we are Taxed, on our living, you are Taxed, when we die-someone pays the burial Taxes.
Tithing was given in merchandise, shocks crops etc..It was a law to tithe a food type, but the law wasn't for all people to tithe. different tribes had different rules, Jesus didn't tithe, nor was He fussed about the Temple Taxes. {Matthew 17}[/b]
therefore, in essence, jesus broke the mosaic law before fulfilling it!
plso show where the law was not for all people to tithe, (note the word tithe)?
you have now totally deviated from using the scriptures as a guide for your views.
plus quote the Law as regard to thithe's . inclysive of the one to tithe a food type!

[quote]With all the Mosaic laws that was given back then, some Laws are still used today-while others are not.

Taxes of the land are still paid today.
But the law on tithing doesn't stand today. Not even the Jews today pay tithes-This Mosaic law was kept only by greedy non Christian people who knew they could used this old law-to retrieve a cash flow from God's people, either in tithes, or lets say the Catholic's believe in a purgatory system, or maybe your way of collecting, the Watchtower tells each Church to put monies into the collectors box-to help support the ministries and disasters that may happen in the future. Each Church find ways to support their own cash flow.

Each Church has greedy preachers, who live the high life, while the poor still lives in low life.

This is very un-biblical. God didn't design us to live poorly, nor did He want us helping someone else to be on the get rich plan each week, buying fancy car's, large mansions, building mega Churches for mega crowds-aeroplanes etc.., Living the high life while the poor are living the low life, {Rutherford had it all, travelling the world, didn't he? While everyone staved through the recession}

Our own needs are important too, and when a Church keeps on putting the presser on about how much the martial's cost, or they need monies for some sort of support, then do what the Lord said to do in {1 Timothy 6:5} Men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, who suppose the godliness is the means of Gain. From such withdraw yourselves.
He want's us all the live the way He designed us the live equally. Let our Children enjoy life-let us all enjoy the life God wanted us to live.
Churches will survive just on given, and sharing with each other. If the Churches were living up to the Lord-their wouldn't be staving people around the world, not even in Africa.