Obiagu1:


The funny thing is that when Russia finally retaliates, NATO will not come to Turkey aid.

Turkey downed the plane for a purpose but their strategy is not going to work. You shoot down a Russian bomber, ran to NATO to complain but NATO tactically are backing off leaving Turkey to their fate.

NATO alliance comes to play only when a member is attacked but that's not the case here.
Turkey are on their own.

Tell them.

OBAGADAFFI:


What's it with you guys and lame arguments.

So anyone not supporting ya Russia is supporting the terrorist.

So you guys expect Turkey to sleep with two eyes closed while run around the house.

Turkey is has accommodated more Syrian refugees than any other country.

Is there not a difference between accommodating refugees and ARMING ISLAMISTS WITH WEAPONS TO KILL?
Do you have comprehension problem?

OAUTemitayo:
Is there not a difference between accommodating refugees and ARMING ISLAMISTS WITH WEAPONS TO KILL?
Do you have comprehension problem?

LOL, you probably forgot that the PKK Rebel were getting support from Syria.

Turkey is generous enough for accommodating those refugees

carnegiefan:
I don't like Russians mainly because they lie a lot. I hate lairs with a passion.
Having said that, Turkey is being irresponsible by its actions in Syria.
Just out of curiosity I researched conventional military of both Russia and Turkey and confirmed what I thought.

Amormed fighting vehicles:
Russia: 31,298
Turkey:7,550

Main Battle Tanks:
Russia: 15,398
Turkey:3,778

Self propelled guns:
Russia: 5,972
Turkey: 1,013

Towed artillery:
Russia: 4,625
Turkey:697

Rocket Launching systems:
Russia: 3,793
Turkey: 811

]Fighters/Interceptors:
Russia: 769
Turkey:223

Attack Aircrafts:
Russia: 1,305
Turkey:223

Attack Helicopters:
Russia: 462
Turkey: 59

Naval:
Submarines:
Russia: 55
Turkey:13

Total vessels:
Russia: 352
Turkey: 115


Available manpower for military:
Russia:69,117,271
Turkey:41,637,773


Nukes apart, Russia can walk all over Turkey militarily, and very easily.
That beggars the question: WHY did Turkey do this, bearing in mind that Turkey violates Syrian airspace almost daily?
Only one answer is reasonable: Turkey wanted to cause a war between Russia and NATO.
A war between Russia and NATO is a NUCLEAR war.

So, WHY did Turkey do this?

I now understand why Germany pulled its Patriot Missile batteries from Turkey.
German is a FIRST WORLD country and won't play stu.pid games with NATO assets.
Turkey is a THIRD WORLD country with a dictator president, who thinks he is a god.
Also Turkey is an Islamic state.
Why is an Islamic country which was rejected membership of the EU still in NATO?
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO before it is too late.

My 2 cents is that Putin wants other NATO members to kick Turkey out (or at the very least divide NATO); that is why he has not responded militarily...yet.

All peace lovers on this earth should pray for peace.

i love your analysis except the part u said russia LIE a lot!!That specific comment made no sence,AMERICA LIES TOO...they lied abt WMD in iraq as a pretext to invade...AMERICA AND THE WEST ARE NATURAL LIERS...quote a lie told by russia or their political players and i will quote 10 from american and the west...

carnegiefan:


Duh
But that is THE point.
What if Putin is like Kim Jon Un of North Korea who is not a rational actor?
What if there is a coup in Russia, and some hot head takes over?
Do you think Russians are happy with what happened?
Why is South Korea not provoking the North as Turkey is doing to Syria and Russia?
Turkey should not be in NATO, else, a nuclear war is almost certain to happen soon.

stpidity is when some folks use NATO as a shield for turkey hence russia wont try poo...russia will attack turkey if it pleases and notning will happen..i repeat NATO will not do shit...anyone who thinks GERMANY OR FRANCE WILL GO TO WAR WITH RUSSIA,coz of TURKEY is delusional....A turkish jet was shot down by syria at the mediterranean,turkey ran to NATO,nothing came out of it...Germany withdrew its patriot missile defence from turkey why?because turkey is a time bomb waiting to self destruct...GERMANY ,FRANCE WILL NEVER GO TO WAR WITH RUSSIA BECAUSE OF TURKEY and NATO is nothing without Germany and France.

.

OBAGADAFFI:


You probably forgot Turkey got Nukes controlled by NATO.

NATO can never kick Turkey out.

u know nothing..why did GERMANY withdrew its missile defence from turkey?..why do u think ERDOGAN is trying hard to make peace with PUTIN?diplomats from NATO powerhouses(france,germany,italy)@the sideline of the recent NATO accused erdogan of trying to provoke russia...NATO can not openly sanction turkey because it wld loose its pedigree and respect of its member countries..

DerideGull:


Germany is lightweight in NATO. Turkey did not partake in the shot down of Su-24 alone. You should bear in mind that the fighter that downed the Russian bomber was F-16 fighter jet. The shoot down was simply an ominous message to Russia to thread carefully in its air war in Syria

GERMANY IS LIGHTWEIGHT IN NATO?this is the dumbest comment on this thread...please tell us,who is the heavyweight in NATO?

The Turkish regime in recent days has been outed (to the general public - surely not to the intelligence community) as one of the sponsors of ISIS. It baffles me that some people on here in a shameless attempt to maintain their anti Putin, anti-Russian stance have now jumped on the I-Stand-With-Turkey bandwagon.

The Turkish Prime Minister has struck conciliatory tone in recent days.

The Turkish president has requested to meet face to face with Putin in Paris. Putin has rejected such until Turkey apologizes.

A retired US general who was in charge of NORAD and supervised more Soviet aircraft interdictions more than anyone else has accused Turkey of ambushing the Russian plane since we all know that 17 secs is just too short a time for the air controllers to make a decision and relay an order back to their pilot to shoot down a plane. There are several measures, including visual (seating on the wing), that could have been used to threaten any trespassing plane and force them out of restricted airspace.
Besides, the Russian jet was shot down over Syrian airspace.

Since Russia deployed the S-400, there are reports - if true- that there has been no incursions into Syrian airspace by either Turkish or American jets and this seems to be the case.
I am willing to bet that should such an incursion occur, Russia will - mark my words - shoot down any erring jet and Heaven won't fall. NATO won't come to the aid of a reckless Turkey. The body language from the likes of France and Germany suggests that they do not want war. Erdogan will be sorely mistaken if he thinks NATO will come to his aid.

I just don't get the jubilation coming from some quarters when they claim Putin is just a noise maker or hasn't lived up to his billing as a strong man!

Whilst Putin, to the disappointment of his blood thirsty detractors (aplenty here on NAIRALAND) hasn't respond with a rushed and misguided military attack on Turkey, the desperation of the West has been laid bare for all to see. This panic and desperation is twofold:

1. The US only started bombing those oil tankers only after Russia exposed the facilitators of ISIS.
Just what kind of fake war has the US been fighting against ISIS for the previous 13 months prior to Russia joining the fray if they have not been bombing the very source of ISIS's wealth? Isn't it easier to finish off ISIS by destroying ISIS's crude oil lifeline?

2. The US has also instructed its lackey and vassal state, Turkey to mass troops at its border with Syria under the guise of sealing it from ISIS. Anyone that has been following the events over the past 4/5 years will realize that is a smokescreen to the long wanted NATO invasion of northern Syria and the carving of a terrorist safe Heaven. This much has been discussed within the US Senate Armed Forced Commitee and by thinks tanks such as the Brookings Institute several times.

All Russia needs to do is stay the course, keep bombing these terrorists to smithereens which will surely drain ISIS and their ability to wage war and also frustrate Erdogan the more. So tell me if that isn't a winning strategy? The SAA has gained territory and will continue to do so as long as Russia stays the course.
Should the US and its gulf allies attempt the up the costs for Russia with more provocations or the planned land incursion, I see other players such as Iran committing more troops and perhaps even China objecting more forcefully to the US's interference with Syria. Who knows, China too many join the Russian anti-ISIS coalition!


End of story!

The Fear of Putin Yes Russian Violate Turkey rules. But Turkey took it to far. Make we dey see sha .

fineguy11:
u know nothing..why did GERMANY withdrew its missile defence from turkey?..why do u think ERDOGAN is trying hard to make peace with PUTIN?diplomats from NATO powerhouses(france,germany,italy)@the sideline of the recent NATO accused erdogan of trying to provoke russia...NATO can not openly sanction turkey because it wld loose its pedigree and respect of its member countries..

Welcome Mr know all, an what is Germany, France and Italy without the US.

NATO is US in Europe.

NATO will never sanction Turkey, because they are strategic to NATO.

Where were you guys when Syria and Russia were supporting the PKK.

All the Turkish needs to do is escalate the crisis more by expelling those refugees.

Let's see if your Almighty Russian will accommodate them.

OBAGADAFFI:


Welcome Mr know all, an what is Germany, France and Italy without the US.

NATO is US in Europe.

NATO will never sanction Turkey, because they are strategic to NATO.

Where were you guys when Syria and Russia were supporting the PKK.

All the Turkish needs to do is escalate the crisis more by expelling those refugees.

Let's see if your Almighty Russian will accommodate them.

Russia supporting the PKK?u must be high of something...i challange u to dig out any article or news that even suggest the slightest bit,that russia supports the PKK..if russia had been supporting the PKK as u so think,TURKEY wld have been ALLEPO 2.0..

fineguy11:
Russia supporting the PKK?u must be high of something...i challange u to dig out any article or news that even suggest the slightest bit,that russia supports the PKK..if russia had been supporting the PKK as u so think,TURKEY wld have been ALLEPO 2.0..

People without facts results in unnecessary emotional outburst

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/russia-kurds-turkey-syria-pkk-ocalan.html#

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/russian-support-for-pkks-syrian-arm-pyd-/482307

OBAGADAFFI:


People without facts results in unnecessary emotional outburst

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/russia-kurds-turkey-syria-pkk-ocalan.html#

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/russian-support-for-pkks-syrian-arm-pyd-/482307

the first link u shared made no mention of the PKK,i doubt u even read that article,..its stated there boldly THE ISSUE OF THE KURDS IS SECONDARY TO THE RUSSIA-TURKISH relationship.some kurdish leaders visted moscow in their quest to canvass support for the establishment of a kurdish state does that relates to automatic explicit support from moscow?.the second link u shared is the consequence of the russian jet downing...perior to the shooting down of the jet,russia has NEVER supported the PKK but erdorgan being foolish has given the russians every reason to support them...

OBAGADAFFI:


People without facts results in unnecessary emotional outburst

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/russia-kurds-turkey-syria-pkk-ocalan.html#

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/russian-support-for-pkks-syrian-arm-pyd-/482307

u're here crying over the PKK.,are u aware that turkey under the guise of(coalition airstrikes)have been attacking kurdish positions in syria instead of fighting isis?

DerideGull:



Per the bolded in colors, Russia will not even think of engaging Turkey in a military show down because of Turkey's affiliation with NATO.

Russia will bombard turkey to the Stone Age if Turkey attack first. Take for example if it was proven that Turkey downed that Jet in aggression and not defense. NATO is not an attacking alliance but a defensive alliance we should try not to confuse this.

carnegiefan:


Duh
But that is THE point.
What if Putin is like Kim Jon Un of North Korea who is not a rational actor?
What if there is a coup in Russia, and some hot head takes over?
Do you think Russians are happy with what happened?
Why is South Korea not provoking the North as Turkey is doing to Syria and Russia?
Turkey should not be in NATO, else, a nuclear war is almost certain to happen soon.

Turkey can continue to be in NATO, Turkey can bring a war upon itself that the jurisdiction of the NATO alliance was not meant to cover if she does that, then it would be curtains for NATO, most NATO member realising the true meaning and structure of NATO and its non provocative clause, they will start leaving NATO, immediately they leave NATO the world will experience a new series of alliance reshuffling that will lead to the creation of the new world order.

fineguy11:
the first link u shared made no mention of the PKK,i doubt u even read that article,..its stated there boldly THE ISSUE OF THE KURDS IS SECONDARY TO THE RUSSIA-TURKISH relationship.some kurdish leaders visted moscow in their quest to canvass support for the establishment of a kurdish state does that relates to automatic explicit support from moscow?.the second link u shared is the consequence of the russian jet downing...perior to the shooting down of the jet,russia has NEVER supported the PKK but erdorgan being foolish has given the russians every reason to support them...

Usual rants from Russian trolls, you got the evidence you demanded.

Now you're making excuses

fineguy11:
u're here crying over the PKK.,are u aware that turkey under the guise of(coalition airstrikes)have been attacking kurdish positions in syria instead of fighting isis?

And how's that news.

The the Turkish have been fighting the Kurdish people, before Isis came into existence.

OBAGADAFFI:


Usual rants from Russian trolls, you got the evidence you demanded.

Now you're making excuses

ur evidence is lame....if truely russia was supporting the PKK,turkey wld av made lots of noise..

Obiagu1:
Turkey will eventually apologize.

I still don't know why Turkey is in NATO.

The only reason and I think the main reason is Black-Sea.. if you check the black sea as we speak every country in is NATO colony. Putin knew exactly what they were aiming for when they tried to drag Ukraine into the same NATO zone. Crimean Penisular is no longer Ukraine, it has re-unified with Russia. This pained the Neocons like fire. Putin always touch them where it hurts the most.

Now the power in the Black-sea region is kind of balance. Forget Ukraine joining NATO, it will be all out war with Donbass and Luganks or even regime change in kiev just like in Georgia. They know this very well. Russia is capable.

The buffer zone for Ukraine entering NATO is Doneskt, Luganks and Crimean Penisular..

lets assume Washington's dream came through. (Meaning it took control of the black sea by dragging Ukraine into NATO and also the Crimean peninsular)
Then forget the south of Russia in the next 5 years. Sochi may fall in all out war with Russia.

The Russians know this very well and taking back Crimean peninsular was just the right card to play at the right time. And no one died during the referendum. Unlike the referendum that took place in the Donbass..

fineguy11:
ur evidence is lame....if truely russia was supporting the PKK,turkey wld av made lots of noise..

Lame in your mind.

DerideGull:


But Russia and Turkey had fought each other several times yet Turkey is standing. If Russia has no reason to attack Germany, it goes that Russia will have no reason to attack any other nation. Russia violated Turkey's airspace and its plane was downed period.

Continue praising terrorist. A caliphate Turkey that wants to re-instate its ottoman Empire. You are surely a terrorist but what vexes me the most is your likes will detest boko haram and still like Turkey or U.S.A, Israel, Saudi Arabia, UK and Qatar..

Hypocrites do not know birds of a feather flocks together.