BeansAndBread:


Al Suyuti(rah) counted Imam Mahdi., what are you saying? Did the hadith state that there would be only 12 Caliphs till Qoyima?

Concerning your Mahdi thread, I read it to the very end and you messed up big time

@underlined, ABSOLUTELY. I have given you summary of all the versions of the hadith below. If you want their details please indicate.

# Now to Imam suyuti list: Do you believe al-Mahdi to be the 12th Khalifah as per the hadith of the 12 Khalifahs?

If al-Suyuti counted Imam al-Mahdi (as) as the 12th Khalifahs, then your interpretation that "There will be Islamic Izza in the reign of the 12 Khalifahs" hit rock. Apart from the fact that that was not the wording of the Hadith (but your misinterpretation), if your belief system says Mahdi is yet to be born and will only come in the last hour, has Islam collapsed and failed to stand ever since the death of your 11th Khalifa centuries ago till date and will it (Islam) continue (to fail) till Mahdi comes? Kindly answer my questions please and do not run away from it.

@bold, thank you sir.

BeansAndBread:


We're not discussing Khalifatain here, you say the hadith of twelve caliphs refers to your Shia Imams. OK the hadith stated that Islam would be at izza during their period,

@underlined, Dear brother, what we are discussing is about "Identifying who the 12 Khalifahs were" as per Sunni-Sunni and Sunni-Shi'i contrasting lists. In identifying these 12 Khalifahs, we need to bring ALL the versions of the hadith together in order to extract valuable information in them and of course, any hadith that talks about "Khilafah (foretold by the Prophet)" should be brought on board to further do the Ta'wil of the Hadith of 12 Khalifahs. This is where "Hadith Khalifatain" and "Hadith Khilafah" and "Hadith Wilayah" comes in. They are all of the same context. While one category talks about their numbers, general clan and reign till Qiyamat, other categories talk specifically about their "names".

@Bold, first, Why are you so particular on a version of "Hadith of 12 Khalifahs"? I have given you different versions of this hadith yet you were adamant on this particular version with misinterpretation that "true Khalifah must possess military power and rule by kingdom for the preservation of the izza of Islam"?! What kind of interpretation is that?

Here are the summary of all the versions of the hadith:
# One version says: "There will be 12 Khalifahs/Amir AFTER the Prophet. All of them from Quraysh"

# Second version says: "There will be 12 Khalifahs/Amir FOR THIS UMMAH. All of them from Quraysh"

# Third version says: "This affair (Islam) will never cease to be strong, invincible and victorious as long as 12 Khalifahs rule by kingdom. All of them from Quraysh"

# Fourth version says: "The religion (Islam) will never cease to stand until the establishment of the Hour OR as long as there are twelve Khalifahs over you. All of them from Quraysh"

# Fifth version says: "The affairs of the Ummah will never cease as long as 12 Khalifahs rule by Kingdom. All of them from Quraysh"

# Sixth version says: "The affairs of Humanity will never cease to continue as long as 12 Khalifahs rule by Wilayah. All of them from Quraysh"

* Extension of the hadith:

# Hadith says: "Kingdom is in Quraysh till Qiyamat"

# Hadith says: "Khilafah is in Quraysh till Qiyamat"

# Hadith says: "'The Imams are from Quraysh"

We know from all these authentic ahadith that each true Khalifah is a royal king, a Wali, and an Imam. By extension, we also see that the Khilafah is kingdom, Wilayah and Imamah. Notably, since the Khilafah is kingdom, it necessarily follows that it is both hereditary and dynastic in nature. Remember hadith Khalifatain where Prophet seeded the Khilafah permanently within his offspring. That made it hereditary just like Allah made Imamah hereditary in the loin of Ibrahim.

# Sunni Khilafah system continue to be failing with this.

Mr BeansAndBread, looking forward for that special version of yours that says Islam would be at izza during their period. If you post the hadith, then you will have to answer the following questions alongside it:

# What is "Islamic izza?" By extension, what is Ummah izza?

# Has Islam ever lost its izza ever since Sunni 11th Khalifah died till the last hour when the 12th will come (that is for those who have not exhausted their 12 Khalifah list)?

BeansAndBread:

so my question is was Islam in a state of izza during Hussain(ra) and Zain Al Abideen's time? Was Islam in a state of izza when the mongols and crusaders during the reign of Mahdi?! Simple question brother!

Absolutely Islam stands its two feet waxing strong as ever since its "inception" by Nabi Muhammad through all the Imams till the Mahdi and the last days. Quran has promised this: "It is He who has sent you with guidance and religion of truth so that it may prevail over all religion..."[surah saff: 9, surah Tawbah].

# Like I said before (which you ignore) whether Imam fights or keep silent, accepted or not, recognized or not, it doesn't matter. Their lutf is enough to fill the earth. Our dear sheik ibn Taymiyyah agrees:

Ibn Taymiyyah: Allah Almighty says: "And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications." Holy Qur'aan {32:24} and He Almighty says to Ibraheem (a.s): "Surely I will make you an Imam of men." Holy Qur'aan {2:124} and that was not that He made him a man of sword who fights with it with all people, He rather made it obligatory over people to follow him, whether they obey or disobey him

Ref: Minhaj Al-Sunnah Al-Nabawiyyah. Vol. 4, Pg. # 108 - 109

BeansAndBread:


Narrated Al-hasan Al-Basri: By Allah, Al-hasan bin Ali led large battalions like mountains against Muawiya. Amr bin Al-As said (to Muawiya), "I surely see battalions which will not turn back before killing their opponents." Muawiya who was really the best of the two men said to him, "O 'Amr! If these killed those and those killed these, who would be left with me for the jobs of the public, who would be left with me for their women, who would be left with me for their children?" Then Muawiya sent two Quraishi men from the tribe of 'Abd-i-Shams called 'Abdur Rahman bin Sumura and Abdullah bin 'Amir bin Kuraiz to Al-hasan saying to them, "Go to this man (i.e. Al-hasan) and negotiate peace with him and talk and appeal to him." So, they went to Al-hasan and talked and appealed to him to accept peace. Al-hasan said, "We, the offspring of 'Abdul Muttalib, have got wealth and people have indulged in killing and corruption." They said to Al-hasan, "Muawiya offers you so and so, and appeals to you and entreats you to accept peace." Al-hasan said to them, "But who will be responsible for what you have said?" They said, "We will be responsible for it." So, what-ever Al-hasan asked they said, "We will be responsible for it for you." So, Al-hasan concluded a peace treaty with Muawiya. Al-hasan (Al-Basri) said: I heard Abu Bakr saying, "I saw Allah's Apostle on the pulpit and Al-hasan bin 'Ali was by his side. The Prophet was looking once at the people and once at Al-hasan bin 'Ali saying, 'This son of mine is a Saiyid (i.e. a noble) and may Allah make peace between two big groups of muslims through him." (Bukhari Book #49, Hadith #867)

That is a version of the Sulh al-Hassan and that version above is even misleading for it portrayed al-Hassan as if he was the one that wage war against Mu'awiyah. Other versions of Sulh al-Hassan say Mu'awiyah managed to gathered people around him by bribing and promising huge wealth to people and they abandoned al-Hassan. Whichever it is, the question is why did Mu'awiyah wage war against the Khilafah of al-Hassan?

BeansAndBread:


You didn't ask me any questions rather I've been asking you, something you've been going around since. You stated:

"# Shia believed Islam will continue to stands its feet till al-Qiyamah so long there is presence of Imam or Khalifa or Amir from the offspring of the holy Prophet on earth. Our Twelfth Imam, who is the Imam of the age, is al-Mahdi al-Muntazar."

And I replied:

"So who's guiding this Ummah now? Last time I checked your 12th Imam vanished, so who's guiding? "

@underlined, obviously you didn't read or scared to answer the long list of questions I have asked you. Kindly review. As per your questions, again it is obvious you do not read or not satisfied with my answers.

Lastly, as you partly and rightly quoted, according to Shi'i ithna Asher belief, al-Mahdi (as) is the 12th Imam guiding this Ummah with his God given Lutf. His reign started immediately after the death of his father, the 11th Imam from the Ahlulbayt of the Prophet. We believe al-Mahdi is in occultation and will only come out (as Sunni-Shi'i) ahadith reported, at the end of days by Allah's leave.

# Your biggest problem about "Shi'i Mahdi in Ghayb (hidden)" is how can someone hidden be guiding the Ummah and Deen? Ash-Shaytan and his troops are in Ghayb since Allah cast him away from His kingdom of extra mercy. And so shall they be in Ghayb till al-Qiyamat YET THEY CONTINUE TO OPERATE IN MISLEADING MANKIND OF EVERY AGE.

# Furthermore, Shi'i countless traditions revealed al-Imam al-Mahdi (as) never ceased to perform his rightful duties as a believer (e.g helping the believers, going on Hajj etc). Tradition says he knows the people but people know him not. That is Ghayb.
I brought out this issue because some of you are of the opinion that "Shi'a believed their Imam Mahdi is hidden in a cave in samara, Iraq." I have referred you to my thread on al-Mahdi which to your assessment is "mockery". For the record, there is no Shi'a Sahih hadith that says "al-Mahdi is in hidden in Iraq".

Wa Salam alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh.

BeansAndBread:


Al Qunduzi Hanafi is not a Sunni but a Shia or probably a Mu'tazila or other Sect but definitely not a Sunni

You are the one that took the 'fight' to Shia background that none of our Imam ever proclaimed himself to be first, second, third Imam etc. Apart from my claim that there are abundant Shi'i ahadith to prove this, I even made mention of al-Qunduzi Hanafi. Brother it is left for you to prove he was a Shi'i.

#Regardless of his status as Sunni or Mu'tazilite, it is a secondary source. However what you have in your primary sources in "Hadith Khalifatain" is enough for the collapse of Sunni Khilafah system till al-Qiyamat.

BeansAndBread:


Imam Muslims' narration you refer to is this:

It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraish.

This narration compliments the one below, that's why it named #1821b. The narration of Muslim never stated "Wilayah" but مَا وَلِيَهُمُ "Maa Waliyahum" and everything has been translated accordingly. No conspiracy theories!

It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I joined the company of the Prophet (ﷺ) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

@Bold that is daring brother Very daring.

Here is my source which prove that the text says: "وليهم "

Ref: Sahih Muslim (Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-Arabi)[annotator: Muhammad Faud Abd al-Baqi], vol.3, p.1452, #1821(6)

Please stop giving reference as #1821b. That simply exposed you never checked Muslim hard copy. Anyway here's the Arabic text and translation in pix:

If al-Suyuti counted Imam al-Mahdi (as) as the 12th Khalifahs, then your interpretation that "There will be Islamic Izza in the reign of the 12 Khalifahs" hit rock. Apart from the fact that that was not the wording of the Hadith (but your misinterpretation), if your belief system says Mahdi is yet to be born and will only come in the last hour, has Islam collapsed and failed to stand ever since the death of your 11th Khalifa centuries ago till date and will it (Islam) continue (to fail) till Mahdi comes? Kindly answer my questions please and do not run away from it.

The hadith never stated that there would be only 12 leaders, this is something you're missing. There are saheeh hadiths that point out there would be many Caliphs, so just not only 12 leaders, but what you must know is that Islam would be great during their rule... Shikena! You're implying things the hadith never, it said Islam would be izza when 12 caliphs rule, it didn't claim Islam would be humiliated after then or did it?

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship."

@bold, thank you sir.

You're always welcome!

@Bold, first, Why are you so particular on a version of "Hadith of 12 Khalifahs"? I have given you different versions of this hadith yet you were adamant on this particular version with misinterpretation that "true Khalifah must possess military power and rule by kingdom for the preservation of the izza of Islam"?! What kind of interpretation is that?

Is it your interpretation we should accept? So you say the izza meant in the hadith is that Islam would prevail over other religions, so in essence you're saying Islam was in a state of izza during Abubakar(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra), Mu'awiyah(ra), Yazeed, etc. So if Islam is in state of izza during their time, then why crying and the lamenting about Mu'awiyah(ra) and Yazeed?!

Here are the summary of all the versions of the hadith:

Here are the versions from Jabir Ibn Sumara(ra):

-Simak:
لَا يَزَالُ الْإِسْلَامُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"Islam shall remain strong until twelve caliphs."

-Ibn abi `Umar from `Abdul-Malik:
لَا يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلًا
"The people's affair shall be conducted well as long as they're led by twelve men."

-Ibn Mahdi from `Abdul-Malik:
لَا يَزَالُ هَذَا الْأَمْرُ صَالِحًا حَتَّى يَكُونَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَمِيرًا
"This matter shall remain good until twelve chiefs (rule)."

-Abu `Abdul-Samad from `Abdul-Malik:
لَا يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا أَوْ قَالَ لَا يَزَالُ النَّاسُ بِخَيْرٍ، شَكَّ أَبُو عَبْدِ الصَّمَدِ إِلَى اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"This religion shall remain strong OR he said the people shall remain in goodness (the narrator was unsure) until twelve caliphs."

-Dawoud from Sha`bi:
لَا يَزَالُ هَذَا الْأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"This matter shall remain strong until twelve caliphs"

-Mujalid from Sha`bi:
إِنَّ هَذَا الدِّينَ لَنْ يَزَالَ ظَاهِرًا عَلَى مَنْ نَاوَأَهُ، لَا يَضُرُّهُ مُخَالِفٌ وَلَا مُفَارِقٌ، حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ مِنْ أُمَّتِي اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"This religion shall remain victorious over its opponents, unharmed by those who oppose it or leave it, until twelve caliphs from my nation come to pass."

-Ibn `Awn from Sha`bi:
لَا يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"This religion shall remain strong and fortified until twelve caliphs."

-`Amir bin Sa`d:
لَا يَزَالُ الدِّينُ قَائِمًا حَتَّى تَقُومَ السَّاعَةُ أَوْ يَكُونَ عَلَيْكُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ
"The religion will remain to be upright until the hour or you are ruled by twelve caliphs all from Quraysh."

-Isma`il bin Hurmuz from Hurmuz:
لَا يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ قَائِمًا حَتَّى يَكُونَ عَلَيْكُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً كُلُّهُمْ تَجْتَمِعُ عَلَيْهِ الْأُمَّةُ
"The religion will remain to be upright until you are ruled by twelve caliphs, the nation shall gather united around them."

-Fitr from Hurmuz:
لَا يَزَالُ هَذَا الْأَمْرُ مُؤَاتًي أَوْ مُقَارِبًا حَتَّى يَقُومَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"This matter shall continue to be appropriate or adequate until the rule of twelve caliphs."

-Hosayn:
لا يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ قَائِمًا حَتَّى يَقُومَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً
"The religion will continue to be upright until the rule of twelve caliphs."

-Musayyib:
إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لا يَزَالُ ظَاهِرًا لا يَضُرُّهُ خِلافُ مَنْ خَالَفَهُ حَتَّى يُؤَمَّرَ اثْنَا عَشَرَ مِنْ أُمَّتِي كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ
"This matter will remain to be victorious, unharmed by the opposition of any opponent until twelve from my nation are granted authority, all of them from Quraysh."

# Hadith says: "Kingdom is in Quraysh till Qiyamat"

Narrated Safinah:
The Prophet (saws) said: The Caliphate of Prophecy will last thirty years; then Allah will give the Kingdom of His Kingdom to anyone He wills. Sa'id told that Safinah said to him: Calculate Abu Bakr's caliphate as two years, 'Umar's as ten, 'Uthman's as twelve and 'Ali so and so. Sa'id said: I said to Safinah: They conceive that 'Ali was not a caliph. He replied: The buttocks of Marwan told a lie.

Hadith says: "the Imams are from Quraysh"

The hadith of Anas from Al Tayalsi:

"The Imams are from Quraish, if they judge; they judge fairly. If they give an oath; they stick to it. If asked for mercy; they show it. If they don't, then may the curse of Allah, his angels, and all the people be upon them. No repentance or ransom will be accepted."

I thought your Imams were infallible, why does the Prophet threaten them with curses from Allaah, his angels and the people?!

# Like I said before (which you ignore) whether Imam fights or keep silent, accepted or not, recognized or not, it doesn't matter. Their lutf is enough to fill the earth. Our dear sheik ibn Taymiyyah agrees:

So you mean if he's a caliph whether he governs or not, this cannot be considered a Caliph, since he has no authority, this is a fact you're running around since, or is your caliph ruling spiritually? So Islam was in a state of izza during Abubakar(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra), Mu'awiyah(ra), Yazeed?!

That is a version of the Sulh al-Hassan and that version above is even misleading for it portrayed al-Hassan as if he was the one that wage war against Mu'awiyah. Other versions of Sulh al-Hassan say Mu'awiyah managed to gathered people around him by bribing and promising huge wealth to people and they abandoned al-Hassan. Whichever it is, the question is why did Mu'awiyah wage war against the Khilafah of al-Hassan?

The narration I posted is clear enough for anyone to understand, no conspiracy theories. As for the reason why Mu'awiyah(ra) wanted to fight Imam Hassan(ra), I don't know.

Lastly, as you partly and rightly quoted, according to Shi'i ithna Asher belief, al-Mahdi (as) is the 12th Imam guiding this Ummah with his God given Lutf. His reign started immediately after the death of his father, the 11th Imam from the Ahlulbayt of the Prophet. We believe al-Mahdi is in occultation and will only come out (as Sunni-Shi'i) ahadith reported, at the end of days by Allah's leave.

So since your so-called Mahdi as been hiding he's been guiding muslims right? So we're to follow the guardianship of man that went into hiding supposedly because of fear of the Abbasids? So Islam has always been izza during his time, during the mongols slaughter of Muslims Islam was in izza? During the crusade of the nasara, Islam was izza? When Muslims are slaughtering each other, Imam mahdi is guiding and Islam is still in izza? Now I can see how messed up things are!

# Your biggest problem about "Shi'i Mahdi in Ghayb (hidden)" is how can someone hidden be guiding the Ummah and Deen? Ash-Shaytan and his troops are in Ghayb since Allah cast him away from His kingdom of extra mercy. And so shall they be in Ghayb till al-Qiyamat YET THEY CONTINUE TO OPERATE IN MISLEADING MANKIND OF EVERY AGE.

You haven't showed how your Imam is guiding, for the case of Shaitan, everyone reasonable person can see the vices he uses to mislead. In our Era, he uses pornography, alcohol rebranding, etc. In fact he uses evil people to get to the believers but your Mahdi doesn't do any of this. Or are you trying to compare him with Shaitan?!

You are the one that took the 'fight' to Shia background that none of our Imam ever proclaimed himself to be first, second, third Imam etc. Apart from my claim that there are abundant Shi'i ahadith to prove this, I even made mention of al-Qunduzi Hanafi. Brother it is left for you to prove he was a Shi'i.

You made a bogus claim that he's a Sunni and I said he can't be, so it's left to you to prove he's a Sunni while I disprove. Hope you grab?

Salam Aleikom AlBaqir

# Imam Muslim (d. 261 H):

Anas b. Malik: The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, “Some persons from amongst those who kept me company will meet me at the Lake-Fount. I will see them, and they will be presented to me. Then, they will be forced away from me. I will say: ‘O my Lord, my Sahabah! My Sahabah. It will be said to me: ‘You do not know what they INNOVATED after you.’”

Ref: Sahih Muslim (Beirut: Dar Iḥya al-Turath al-‘Arabi) [annotator: Muḥammad Fuad ‘Abd al-Baqi], vol. 4, p. 1800, # 2304(40)

@underlined, this doesn't refer to the whole sahabas as I've clarified in previous post that the Sahabah linguistically refers to those who remained on the path of the Prophet not apostates as in the case of those in Riddah wars or those who joined Musaylamah the false Prophet. We're not talking about the sahabas in a general meaning, just like Quran also refers to Imams in different manner.

# Imam Nisai (d. 303 H):
...He (the Messenger of Allah) went out with the people for the battle of Tabuk. So, Ali said to him, "Let me go out with you". Therefore, he (the Prophet) said, "Do not weep, Ali. Are you not pleased that you are to me of the status of Harun to Musa with the exception that you are not a prophet? You are my Khalifah, that is, over every believer after me."

So after He(Ali) was divinely appointed as the Caliph, when his time to rule came he forgot totally or would you say he was doing takkiyah?!

Ali(ra) said: By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it. When the caliphate came to me, I kept the Book of Allah in my view and all that Allah had put therein for us, and all that according to which He has commanded us to take decisions.[sermon 205]

This sermon of Ali(ra) was made after more than 20 years had passed after the death of Prophet(saw) , Even this sermon of Ali(ra) proves that Ali(ra) never considered that he was already appointed as Caliph, instead he said here that, “WHEN CALIPHATE CAME TO ME”  which signifies that he wasn’t the Caliph during that time neither did he wanted to be a Caliph.

It was not said as an address to Ummah or muslims, but it was an address just to Ali(ra). Because prophet(Saw) said “YOU” are to “ME” as haroon to musa, He didn’t say” o believers, Ali is to me as harun to musa”. Or he would have said: “Ali to YOU(muslims) is like Haroon to Bani Israel”, but he didn’t say anything as such.This clearly shows that this wasn’t any kind of declaration before muslims, but it was rather a consolation to Ali(ra) ONLY.

I believe anyone reasonable enough would know that this does not in any way suggest that Ali was made a caliph after the Prophet.

@underlined, please do not distort the hadith. Prophet never said in ALL ASPECTS except Prophethood rather his statement is Comparison in STATUS. Harun was the best believer, most pious and ascetic in entire Musa's Ummah; Harun was the chosen brother to aid and strengthen Musa's mission; Harun was the Wazir of Musa; and being WAZIR of Musa made him natural successor to Musa but unfortunately died before Musa. Then Prophet noticing this "anomaly" declared: And You (Ali) are my Khalifah OVER every believer AFTER ME (min bahdi).

Who's distorting hadith? Did I claim the Prophet said such and such? I only made a comparison that if Ali(ra) is compared to Harun(as) [of course we can't compare him in terms of Prophet hood because Harun was a Prophet during the lifetime of Musa, while Ali(ra) is not], then Abubakar(ra) and Umar(ra) could be compared Ibrahim(as) and Nuh(as), so how's that I'm changing the hadith?!

# If you were to compare Abu Bakr and Umar in all aspects except Nubuwah, does that meant Nabi Ibrahim (as) was also a polytheist before embracing Islam (nauthubillah) as the Sheikhain were?

As you can clearly see from the hadith quoted on how the Prophet compared them to the great Prophets. The Prophet clearly knew the history of the two men when he compared them.

@Abovementioned Ayat Sherif, so does Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan then complied to the Command of Allah by paying allegiance to Ali ibn Abi Talib as his "Rightly Guided Khalifah"? Ali defeated Mu'awiyyah and his Baghi group yet he resurface in causing another fitnah after the demise of Ali - against al-Hassan. Therefore, That Ayat Sherif only imply if the two parties were believers. In this case of Mu'awiyah and Ali, it was a case of Hypocrisy vs Belief.

As I've clearly explained in my last and anybody viewing would know that I'm sincere. I said Muawiyah was wrong, he was haste in his decisions but nevertheless when we look at his intention, he wasn't fighting for power or the caliphate but for the Revenge of his cousin the 3rd Rightly Guided Caliph Uthman(ra).

Muawiyah Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh said:

"Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh) and if he takes the qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to make bayah to him"

[al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]

The man murdered was a Sahaba and the only man to have become the son-in-law of the Prophet (saw) twice. If Ali(ra) was the Prophet's (saw) son-in-law and cousin, then Uthman(ra) was his son-in-law twice over. He was no ordinary man you know? But I've started times without number that Muawiyah was wrong, stop complicating issues.

# For sure Mu'awiyah and his Baghi group never did any of these. How could they when the holy Prophet labeled them as "CALLER OF HELL"?! According to Quran a "Caller of hell-Fire" is Kafir.

It's funny on how you declare them Kaffirs when even Imam Ali(ra) never did.

It was narrated that when ʿAlī(ra) heard that two of his companions were openly reviling Muawiyah(ra) and cursing the people of Syria, he sent word to them telling them to stop what they were doing. They came to him and said: O Amīr al-Mu’minīn, are we not in the right and they in the wrong? He said: Yes indeed, by the Rabb of the Kaʿbah. They said: Then why are you stopping us from reviling and cursing them? He said: I do not want you to be people who curse; rather you should say: “0 Allah, protect our blood and theirs, reconcile between us and them. Save them from their misguidance, so that truth will become clear to those who are unaware of it and those who got carried away in misguidance will give up their stubborn ways.
Al-Akhbār al-Ṭiwāl, p. 165, quoted in Taḥqīq Mawāqif al-Ṣaḥābah fī l-Fitnah, 2/232

Qurb Al-Isnad - bn Turayf - Ibn Alwan - Ja'far - Muhammad (Al-Baqir) who said that Ali (peace be upon him) used to say about those who fought him: "Verily, we did not fight them based on Takfeer, nor did we fight them based on their Takfeer on us, rather we believed that we are upon the truth, and they believed they are upon the truth".

(Source: Narrated by Al-Himyariu, Hadith no: 297 and 302 in his book Qurb Al-Isnad, p 45, vol 1. Also in "Al-Shari'ah" by Al-Hurr (Al-'Ameli), part 15, page 80, chapter: The RULING on the trangressors, 26)

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that:

Muawiya (b. Abi Sufyan) commanded Sa'd (ibn Abi Waqqas), and said, "What prevented you from CURSING Abu al-Turab (i.e 'Ali b. Abi Talib)? So, he (Sa'd) replied: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (s) having said about him..."
Ref: {Sahih Muslim (Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-Arabi)[annotator: Muhammad Fu'ad Abd al-Baqi], vol. 4, p. 1870, #2404(32)}

Yet Mu'awiyah(ra) called Ali(ra) with his most beloved kunya, Sa'd explained all the virtues of Ali(ra) in his front and Mu'awiyah(ra) neither objected not punished Sa'd(ra).

In the Hadith the Arabic word "سب" "Sabb" translated into English would be "cursed / abused" and this is not asking Allah to remove someone from his mercy such as "May Allah curse so and so" or "May Allah remove so and so from his mercy", that would be "لعن" "La'ana" in Arabic and that would be a religious accusation(this was not the case). An example of "sabb" can be "what an ignorant donkey", moreover , there was a case whereby Ali(ra) and Al Abbas(ra) had disagreement:

 Narrated Malik bin Aus An-Nasri: I proceeded till I entered upon `Umar (and while I was sitting there), his gate-keeper Yarfa came to him and said, " `Uthman, `Abdur-Rahman, Az-Zubair and Sa`d ask your permission to come in." `Umar allowed them. So they entered, greeted, and sat down. (After a while the gatekeeper came) and said, "Shall I admit `Ali and `Abbas?'' `Umar allowed them to enter. Al-`Abbas said "O Chief of the believers! Judge between me and the oppressor (`Ali)." Then there was a dispute (regarding the property of Bani Nadir) between them (`Abbas and `Ali).
(Saheeh Bukhaari, Book 56, Hadeeth 326 and See, Hadith No. 326, Vol. 4)

Al Abbas(ra) abused Ali(ra) here because he was annoyed and this happens due to human weakness, you need to look at it from all angles and be rational.

Yazeed ibn Mu'awiyah was a Kafir and first class Jahanam leader.

You're Allaah who's going to judge abi? Better focus on how you're going to be a better Muslim!

Did the Prophet (s) really say there will be 12 Caliphs after him? Sunni references?

November 23, 2015Ahlul Bayt, Imamah (Divine Leadership), Shia/Sunni

Question:

Is it true that there is a hadith from the Holy Prophet(s) that he said that there will be 12 caliphs or rulers after him? If it does exist, is it authentic, and does it exist in both Shia and Sunni books of narration?

Please provide me with some of the main Sunni references if possible. Also, what do Sunni Muslims say about this hadith if it exists in their books?


Answer:

http://www.askthesheikh.com/did-the-prophet-s-really-say-there-will-be-12-caliphs-after-him-sunni-references/