it has become a common adage among Christians to tell those who abandoned Christianity that they were never born again,they were just a church goer..they never had a personal relationship with God and all that...I have met many Christians who knew me as a Christian before but when I told them I am now an atheist.. they will be like. you never encountered Christ before...the question is that...can a true born again Christian deconvert?

liez, it us very possible else Paul wouldn't have warned against the sin of apostasy

A born again christian can abandoned his faith if he did not heed to the warning the bible give:

1 Peter 5:8
8 BE ALERT and of sober mind. Your
enemy the devil prowls around like a
roaring lion looking for someone to
devour.

One thing for sure, this verse was not referring to sinners, "BE ALERT" is a warning to the believers to be very careful of the devil. If a person does not "hold fast" to the gospel message, then according to Paul he is not saved. He has believed IN VAIN (1 Cor. 15:1-2)

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to
remind you of the gospel I preached to
you, which you received and on which
you have taken your stand. 2 By this
gospel you are saved, IF you hold firmly
to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Their something you need to understand hear,paul is not implying that some of the Corinthian believers were lost for want of faith; rather it is that their faith has never been sufficient for salvation" sufficient because their are some who believe because of miracle In John 2:23 the people believe because of the miracle Jesus did, was this believe A SAVING FAITH ? NO it was a believe BASED ON MIRACLE. There are two things you must know of this kind of faith based on miracle:

1. Even when they believe in Him, He did not believe in them.
2. Example of those who had faith based on miracle was nicodimus:
John 3:1-2
"We
know that thou art a teacher come from
God; for no man can do these MIRACLES THAT THOU DOEST , except God be with
him."

This faith that he had did not
measure up to saving faith. The Lord told
him he must BE BORN AGAIN.

yes
Hebrew 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
2peter 2:20 For if after they have escape the pollutions of the world through the the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus christ , they are entangled therein and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

No true born again Christian can leave as long as he/she keeps a relationship with God.A man who has truly encountered God cannot turn back.
Jesus had an encounter with some people who had followed Him because they saw miracles and some other things Jesus did.However when He started revealing deep revelations,they left and said His words were blasphemous.When He turned to His disciples to ask if they wanted to leave too,Simon Peter said,to whom shall we go,Thou hast the words of eternal life.

In Jesus' parable of the sower,He spoke about the seeds falling on different types of soil(hearts). He said the seed that fell on good ground brought forth a harvest!The good ground is that man/woman who has encountered God.The individual does not end up as a barren land.He brings forth a harvest.............He doesn't turn back from God.

I believe its not possible to leave where you have never been.

Its possible if hard storms blow ur way. Job's wife is an example. But the question is have u really seen storms as hard as job? To me it wasn't even d storm that job faced that is horrible, its d fact that God was silent throughout all the travail. To be frank, God's silence can make one run mad.

But the fact is if God had been speaking to you in one way or the other b4 (maybe thru dreams etc) and you were always sure its what u talked to him about, that he replied you about or u gave him a time limit and he overanswered b4 the time was up. It will be difficult to leave him. I'm talking from my experience..if u've experienced God's closeness b4..its really frightening..u'll feel he reads every thought of ur mind and commiting the slightest sin will be scary to you. I really mean it..as in to ask him 4 a sign b4 u sleep and u wake up d next day to find d sign just as u asked for it, nothing frightens more!

But d day I got exposed to porn, mehn I lost all those closeness of his. But I'm not an aethist. I strongly believe d Almighty God exists

No!!! A true Christian cannot abandon CHRIST.... If He abandons CHRIST, that means he is not saved to begin with, he was just a Church goer and dem plenty for Church.

Let me share my i experience, i became a born again Christian long time ago, but but i am not your CONVENTIONAL religious born again Christian in Nigerian parlance , many religious Christians think i may not be saved at all. They do this because i dress well, i am kinda free spirited,i am Cosmopolitan, Liberal & i have a worldly knowledge according to them, i don't live a sacrificial life according to them, i don't condemn other unserious Christians & unbelievers like them. But apart from all these, i know who i totally trust & believe in for my Salvation and that is Jesus CHRIST!!!!

At a time in Nigeria, when that Sister Linda story was big in Nigeria and she condemned every believer to Hell, i wasn't perturbed. But at some point, i read her story & some other stories of people who died and woke up and i was sooo disturbed about my Salvation. Salvation is sooo important to me. So i thought if God can still send us Christians to Hell upon the fact that we believed in CHRIST, so whats the essence of CHRIST death on the cross? At that time, i became mad at God for creating me and punishing me later. I was bitter in my heart cos the requirements those people listed for making heaven was soo much & no one can keep it. Throughout all these, i wasn't Happy to worship God again cos i was like What's the need? since i am going to end up in Hell... it was dat bad. I was depressed and always blaming God in my heart for creating me. Life lost its meaning to me then.

When all these were happening, i wasn't close to God anymore, till last year when He led me to listen to The Real Gospel of CHRIST for the first time!!! The message of His abundance of Grace and the gift of righteousness!!! I became totally transformed!!! I became Happy again cos i am a free spirited person... Things started moving well again for me. I became totally aware of God's protection & preservation upon my life that i wasn't aware of before.

So if anyone abandons CHRIST, he is not saved to begin with, he might be just a Church goer. So from my story, although i wasn't close to God again cos of circumstances, He was still watching over me like a Good shepherd that He is... CHRIST said He will never lose anyone of us that are His.... He will still bring us back even when we stray and that's our assurance of Salvation!!!

Belonging to a Church does not save neither is joining Church groups.... Salvation is only through CHRIST... believing in your heart dat He died for your SIN and God raised Him up from the dead on the 3rd day. IT IS NOT WHAT YOU DO OR HOW YOU BEHAVE THAT SAVES YOU... NO!! IT IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN!!! IT CHRIST OR NOTHING ELSE... NOT CHRIST + GOOD WORKS... NO WAY!!!!


Just the same way we have many believers in Church, we many Church goers in Church. They come to Church for one thing or another e.g For connection, for employment, to socialise etc ( not that i am condemning them oo) but their heart is not for CHRIST. They didn't actually trust in Him as their Saviour and Lord.

Shollyps:
it has become a common adage among Christians to tell those who abandoned Christianity that they were never born again,they were just a church goer..they never had a personal relationship with God and all that...I have met many Christians who knew me as a Christian before but when I told them I am now an atheist.. they will be like. you never encountered Christ before...the question is that...can a true born again Christian deconvert?

Sure when u show dem dat Christianity is scam

The question here is..who exactly is a true Christian? Who on here can confidently say 'i am an epitome of a true Christian'? When ever we point out the flaws that bedevils Christianity or the sharp practices of these so called men of god you immediately hear something like 'he is not a true Christian/man of god. How come It is always the other Christian that is doing it wrong,it is always the other church that is preaching the false doctrine, it is always the other man of god that is not anointed. Did i add that it is always the other church that is not a bible believing church? Sigh

You need to understand that belief is just belief ..it has no bearing on reality..those people claiming to be Christians will not turn the other chick when they are slapped on the right check..so who is fooling who??..i know there are Gods..some hate humans some like us..the reason they hate us is because they had to vacate this earth for us and go into different dimmensions..because they were the original occupants of this earth.

cold:
The question here is..who exactly is a true Christian? Who on here can confidently say 'i am an epitome of a true Christian'? When ever we point out the flaws that bedevils Christianity or the sharp practices of these so called men of god you immediately hear something like 'he is not a true Christian/man of god. How come It is always the other Christian that is doing it wrong,it is always the other church that is preaching the false doctrine, it is always the other man of god that is not anointed. Did i add that it is always the other church that is not a bible believing church? Sigh

And who told you that christians don't have flaws?

Little Children, I write unto you that you sin not, but if you sin, remember you have an advocate in Christ Jesus.

If Christians shd be flawless, why then do we need Christ the mediator? Do you know the duty of an advocate?

Christ is seating by the right hand of God interceding for our sins.
The difference btwn you and I is that, I slip into sin, but am not a sinner, but you are a sinner. Habitual sinner. You deny God. You are god to yourself. You are a Satanist.
You allow Satan to point you to the flaws of others and not yours.

If it is not possible, why then does satan tempt?
Methinks he'd rather focus on killing those who are yet to believe since once they believe they are signed, sealed and delivered(as some say)!

Why is the New testament replete with warnings to watch and be sober if there was no danger?

Why would Jesus say,''...he that shall endure to the end shall be saved?''

A true christian can never abandon Christ. He can only backslide. There's a big difference between the two.

Muslims say the same thing too. They say a true muslim can never abandon Islam. It's just a defense mechanism religious people use to help them remain in their particular religious bubble. On the other thread they were telling some dude that he wasn't really a Catholic for saying he left Catholicism. Funny people.

[b] A muslim would forever argue that the ones that left Islam were never True muslims and servants of Allah.

Christians would forever argue so and even brand such a person many unwarranted names like "Agent of Devil, demon etc"

it is no surprise that even within Christiandom none of them even regards the other denomination to be true Christians makes you wonder that their version of "True Christian" is always in reflection to their own ideas that is why no Christian is ever a true Christian to the other.

Let us face the simple truth here..

At one point most of us were either Quran thumping, fore-head smashing muslim or Bible thumping, tongue firing, spirit bathed Christians spanning from Childhood indoctrination or personal act of convictions.

Not once do we imagine our belief being wrong or even ever wanted to imagine that. Not once have we questioned or even thought about the things we believed or applied our straight reasons as humans in relation to these convictions.

Not until a pinch of reality hits you, a fearful ever pricking question keeps sipping in..
"Muhammed never rode Buraq?, There was never a global flood and a wooden ark?, or naked couple eating a fruit because a talking snake with legs said so? or the moon ever split ?, the sun or earth never stood still for men killing each other.?

Or the plain disturbing Character of these distinct beings bathed on us in form of belief.
"Loving the smell of burnt animals, hating unbelievers or ready to burn anybody that hurts it's ego forever for his own glee or glory"

Nope it never made sense once you thought about them, it seemed Narcissistic, barbaric and sadistic... And curiosity and reason takes you ever further.

Once you encounter a conflicting ideology it always leaves a mark that may take years to be realized.

Yes people abandon their FAITH, even bishops, pastors, Imams.. and Yes they were true to their formal faiths.

Why i always say, when an irreligious argues over belief with a religious.. its not really about winning the debate not even close. All it takes is a pinch of doubt Once the words plants this seed of doubt, natural curiosity takes it from there.
[/b]

johnydon22:
[b] A muslim would forever argue that the ones that left Islam were never True muslims and servants of Allah.
Christians would forever argue so and even brand such a person many unwarranted names like "Agent of Devil, demon etc"
it is no surprise that even within Christiandom none of them even regards the other denomination to be true Christians makes you wonder that their version of "True Christian" is always in reflection to their own ideas that is why no Christian is ever a true Christian to the other.
Let us face the simple truth here..
At one point most of us were either Quran thumping, fore-head smashing muslim or Bible thumping, tongue firing, spirit bathed Christians spanning from Childhood indoctrination or personal act of convictions.
Not once do we imagine our belief being wrong or even ever wanted to imagine that. Not once have we questioned or even thought about the things we believed or applied our straight reasons as humans in relation to these convictions.
Not until a pinch of reality hits you, a fearful ever pricking question keeps sipping in..
"Muhammed never rode Buraq?, There was never a global flood and a wooden ark?, or naked couple eating a fruit because a talking snake with legs said so? or the moon ever split ?, the sun or earth never stood still for men killing each other.?
Or the plain disturbing Character of these distinct beings bathed on us in form of belief.
"Loving the smell of burnt animals, hating unbelievers or ready to burn anybody that hurts it's ego forever for his own glee or glory"
Nope it never made sense once you thought about them, it seemed Narcissistic, barbaric and sadistic... And curiosity and reason takes you ever further.
Once you encounter a conflicting ideology it always leaves a mark that may take years to be realized.
Yes people abandon their FAITH, even bishops, pastors, Imams.. and Yes they were true to their formal faiths.
Why i always say, when an irreligious argues over belief with a religious.. its not really about winning the debate not even close. All it takes is a pinch of doubt Once the words plants this seed of doubt, natural curiosity takes it from there.
[/b]

Human beings just have a natural tendency to conform to the views and beliefs of whatever group or community they belong to. Even if those views or beliefs are unfounded and irrational. Psychological experiments conducted by Solomon Asch and Stanley Milligram have proven that human beings under group situations and under the influence of authority figures will readily conform to the consensus around them even if the agreed consensus are clearly unethical or incorrect. That is why muslims for example see nothing wrong with Mohammed marrying a 6 years old baby and consummating the marriage when she was 9, or why christians do not see anything wrong when God in the bible encourages slavery and even tells people to sell their daughters into slavery among many other absurdities. When faced with such absurdities muslims chant pious comments like Masha Allah, while christians just regurgitate the hallelujah line and try to get their minds of it.

After all the religious books are completely against doubt. They discourage doubt and dissent in what ever form. Doubt is a vice that is sinful. Example the Koran says that the believers are the ones who believe in Allah and his messenger and never doubt.(49:015).

It also uses subtle intimidation. Oh you who believe do not ask questions about things which, if made plain to you will cause you trouble.(5:101). Muslims are encouraged to say we hear and we obey.(2:285)

The bible has passage like who are you a man to question God. The bible calls those who believe blessed. Such goodies are sold to believers to make them feel special so that they can keep believing. That is why every religion only makes sense to it's adherents and not to adherents of other religions. Doubt is seen as coming from the elusive satan himself. So it is do be discouraged at all times.

Doubt and dissent is what has lead to great advances in human history while unquestioning obedience only enslaves man and holds him back.

dalaman:


Human beings just have a natural tendency to conform to the views and beliefs of whatever group or community they belong to. Even if those views of beliefs are unfounded and irrational. Psychological experiments conducted by Solomon Asch and Stanley Milligram have proven that human beings under group situations and under the influence of authority figures will readily conform to the consensus around them even if the agreed consensus are clearly unethical or incorrect. That is why muslims for example see nothing wrong with Mohammed marrying a 6 years old baby and consummating the marriage when she was 9, or why christians do not see anything wrong when God in the bible encourages slavery and even tells people to sell their daughters into slavery among many other absurdities. When faced with such absurdities muslims chant pious comments like Masha Allah, while christians just regurgitate the hallelujah line and try to get their minds of it.

After all the religious books are completely against doubt. They discourage doubt and dissent in what ever form. Doubt is a vice that is sinful. Example the Koran says that the believers are the ones who believe in Allah and his messenger and never doubt.(49:015).

It also uses subtle intimidation. Oh you who believe do not ask questions about things which, if made plain to you will cause you trouble.(5:101). Muslims are encouraged to say we hear and we obey.(2:285)

The bible has passage like who are you a man to question God. The bible calls those who believe blessed. Such goodies are sold to believers to make them feel special so that they can keep believing. That is why every religion only makes sense to it's adherents and not to adherent of another religion. Doubt is seen as coming from the elusive satan himself. So it is do be discouraged at all times.

Doubt and dissent is what has lead to great advances in human history while unquestioning obedience only enslaves man and holds him back.

This is truer than true...

Blind conformity to authority is the greatest enemy of truth in every human society

johnydon22:
This is truer than true...

Blind conformity to authority is the greatest enemy of truth in every human society

People are attracted to religion because it is a parental substitute. People like security and are uncomfortable with unknowns and unanswered questions. Parents provided security and try to answer all our questions when we were children. Religion offers security (God has a plan and is looking over you) and religion will answer any question anyone has even though most of the answers will sound like nonsense to those who do not accept that religion, but then a lot of our parents answers to our childhood questions would sound like nonsense to those not in the family. Basically that is how it functions.

hmmmm...

Was Demas a Christian? what later happened?

bump

hopefulLandlord:
bump

He was never An Atheist