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Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by HEFAIROHLUWA(m): 9:02am On Feb 13, 2016 |
wirinet:Seems you are judging the matter per how it looked forgetting that God himself didn't force them to leave Egypt-they were suffering and needed God on their side he gave them laws and rules in the wilderness to guide against anarchy,uprising and to help them from behaving like the evil nations around them,if he hadn't given those stone hearted and forgetful people those laws they would have been divided/consumed and none would have gotten to the promise land. When you need God you act as he tells you(remember the Passover) when you are convenient you will now act as if u haven't heard about him or his laws is difficult to heed. #GOD IS NOT A FOOL#. You no fit hold am pal. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 9:06am On Feb 13, 2016 |
imohchard: If the father in this case happened to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and omnipresent, then yes, it would be his fault because he knowingly created a son that he knew would turn out to be troublesome, even though he could have prevented it without any problem to himself. 3 Likes |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by taurus25(m): 9:09am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack: ding dong!!! |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by HEFAIROHLUWA(m): 9:37am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:Why didn't he prevent the devil (a former angel) and the fallen angels from rebelling against him? He allowed them freewill even in his kingdom instead of creating robots. He created adam and eve perfectly good but also with a freewill to make their choice thereby advising them not to eat of the tree of Good and evil,but the devil wanted to prove to God that God's standard is too high due to his pride . That was the reason he tricked them into eating the fruit. If God had created Hunan like robots that bend to his will then the devil have won.He will say that God is afraid and selfish to again create some one with a free will like him(the devil) fearing rebellion to his standards. #God is not partial# That was why he sent JESUS as a MAN to show us.Even Jesus could have failed if he decided to. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 10:31am On Feb 13, 2016 |
JackBizzle:God is essentially Good and even after Creation, all was adjudged good by Him. Hence, evil has it's source when there is a separation from Him!!! 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 10:37am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:And till date is the Father bereft of ideas for a way out? Did He speak of the way out after brainstorming for some centuries after the fall or immediately after the fall? From the proceedings in Genesis it is clear that what the Father wanted was that Adam would decide if he will remain in that state in which he was created! (Adam did not choose the state in which he was created, God did). And that is why immediately after the fall, he was sent out lest he took from the one that God did not forbid him from taking - the Tree of life and remain irredeemably in that fallen state forever. If Adam had taken from Tree of life first, then there will be no need for the tempter because Adam's state would be positively irreversible! 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by JackBizzle: 10:40am On Feb 13, 2016 |
malvisguy212: load of nonsense. There is no God. Good and evil lies in man's heart |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by JackBizzle: 10:43am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: A jealous God is good? A God that hardened Pharoah's heart? A God that killed the first sons of the Egyptians who had nothing to do with the crimes of the parents? A God that killed King David's son to punish King David? |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:04am On Feb 13, 2016 |
JackBizzle:Sure He is.You need to realize that He knows what we get into when we forsake Him. He knows the enemy we expose ourselves to. Imagine Job going into idolatry, God knows the hedge of protection will be broken down and He will do nothing in preventing Job from facing the consequences of his choice! Yes, see God gives man a long rope but when that is over, judgement takes many shapes! When tyrants like Belshazzar, Antiochus Epiphanes, Nebuchadnezzar, Manasseh, Jeconiah etc all had their chances. Some repented, others waited till it was too late It was judgement! Israel also lost innocent babies to Egypt, cruelly enslaved innocent Israelites (death on a daily basis will be inevitable) etc Rather, the message of the Bible is that our sins affect others negatively! This is an example. David killed Uriah hence he reaped judgement from God. Why didnt God kill David? He repented, but the consequences of his sins spread to all! That is why God said, Vengeance is Mine! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by UyiIredia(m): 11:05am On Feb 13, 2016 |
CoolUsername: But the miracles don't work that way. They are spurious in nature and for that reason aren't open to testing under lab conditions. However, things like out of body experience have been done in the lab. Instead of scientists to take this as confirmation of spiritual being materialism made them I sist it was as a result of a given brain state. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by JackBizzle: 11:06am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: You have no sense of morality. May your children not be killed for your sins |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:07am On Feb 13, 2016 |
JackBizzle:Why do you say that? And what is your reference point/standard for morality? Please answer both. Man is not allowed to avenge himself. Who then takes vengeance? Who dispenses justice? (Answer these too if you can) |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 11:11am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: Though I don't believe the story of Adam and Eve one bit, I would have been rather happy to see Adam eat the apple so that we would not live a life of an ignorant zombie just passively existing without any challenges in some garden. What a boring existence that would be. It's for the exact same reason that the idea of Heaven does not appeal to me. No challenges and no meaning to existence. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by JackBizzle: 11:13am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: My morality lies in logic, reasoning and the principles of humanism 1 Like |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 11:14am On Feb 13, 2016 |
HEFAIROHLUWA: Free will and an all-knowing, all powerful god are two incompatible ideas. If this god does not know the future then he is not all-knowing; if he does know the future then it is because it is what he wanted to happen. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:14am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack: Well since you dont believe it... However, if the highlighted is your only reason then ...why rest the irreversible on a personal opinion/perception? Besides, the real joy of a Christian (at least for me) is not Streets of Gold, Pearly Gates, Mansions...etc |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Nobody: 11:17am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: Should there have been the need for a tempter at all? |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:17am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:He knows the end of either alternatives we will choose. He also knows our hearts and it's inclinations to either alternatives but the only influence He makes is to warn or encourage where applicable. This far the Bible reveals to us of His Omni-Science. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:20am On Feb 13, 2016 |
folksync:Yes. Adam was created in God's Image and Likeness not by Adam's choice. Now God will be violating His own principle if He made Adam remain like that for all eternity. Besides, the equation was balanced- God had commanded, the devil also tempted and man made his choice. The tempter was not created so, he had become wicked by reason of his alienation from God. As to who tempted the tempter? NOBODY! he made his choice. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 11:22am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: Lack of evidence of any particular god is my position. I cannot fake believe. I have no faith and don't see faith as a good thing. The Bible and the Quran are just books written by men. In any case I have and have always had no interest in practicing any religion. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:22am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:Indeed but how about meeting a Person? |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 11:23am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: This is not possible. It is a logical impossibility. If this god knows what will happen and is all powerful then it must be a result of his will. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Nobody: 11:24am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: You mean God caused Adam to sin so that Adam would stop being in God's image and likeness? |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 11:24am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: I require extraordinary evidence in order to believe an extraordinary claim. I need to see someone make time stop, for example. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by UyiIredia(m): 11:26am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Seun: If that's your conclusion of my sojourn on the Religion board I'm truly disappointed. I took note of your silence as well as thehomer's on the thread where I detailed the experience that turned me back to Christianity. Seun: I have presented arguments for a Creator God (as generally underatood) in the past you can go to my thread 'Three Arguments For God's Existence' and see my reasosns. That said you have simply FAILED to rebut my argument which I'll repeat for clarity. Evil in the world only contradicts Gods benevolence, it doesn't contradict His existence. It would be very strange if soemone used World War 2 to argue against Hitlera existence as opposed to his goodness. Seun: It is a common doctrine among most, if not all Christian sects that an appointed day has been set when God will bring all men and their works into judgement. Till then man must wait because God will never act prior to a time He has set. God has already done his part by giving every man a conscience that knows right and wrong. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:35am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:I think its better to let such an One decide on what means He will give proofs else you might be expecting what He might choose not to do! Your request for a sign echoes that of some men in the Bible (including Herod), somehow He did not act to gratify their curiosity |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:38am On Feb 13, 2016 |
folksync:No, nothing in my post suggests that God CAUSED Adam. God gave Adam commands on what to avoid and what to accept. God's purpose was clear as Genesis 1:26 shows. But He wont make man remain so without him wanting it so. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:41am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:All powerful but will not make you act against your will. Else why did He give you one? God is Love and He will only want our loyalty to Him to be also a choice of reciprocating His Love, not a programming from which the robot cannot depart. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by onetrack(m): 11:43am On Feb 13, 2016 |
Scholar8200: Well then I guess he will just have one less worshiper. I think that it is absolutely reasonable to demand evidence. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by Scholar8200(m): 11:47am On Feb 13, 2016 |
onetrack:No problem demanding evidence, but why not leave the cheque blank as to what it will be, only condition is it being convincing. |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:50am On Feb 13, 2016 |
UyiIredia: Its obvious the atheists like Johnydon22 , plaetton , seun think God's behavior precludes his existence - that does not any sense . You clearly smashed him with a rock @ bolded . In the bible , God clearly stated that he created evil |
Re: Isaiah 45:7 And Atheists by malvisguy212: 11:56am On Feb 13, 2016 |
JackBizzle:A very weak defence I'll call this!! Stay on track, leave the argument of God existence aside. Do you agree God is NOT the author of evil ? 1 Like |
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