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Stats: 1,991,169 members, 4,198,283 topics. Date: Friday, 20 April 2018 at 10:01 AM
2017 Generation Of Programmers - What Languages Are You Using? / Let's Be Honest, The Number Of Programmers We Have In Nigeria Is Exagherrated / Create A Nested Lists Of Categories In Laravel 5 (1) (2) (3) (4)
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by TruthHurts1(m): 11:42pm On Jul 12, 2016|
I'm always in awe of these guys. When I grow up I want to be like Larisoft
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by nams77: 11:54pm On Jul 12, 2016|
I truly wish I could be a programmer. I look forward to it someday
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Wallie(m): 12:18am On Jul 13, 2016|
Writing code is easy, which is why you have the phrase "code monkey." Writing code just means that you understand the syntax.
I'm not saying that an algorithm developer will be completely clueless when it comes to writing but most of their writing is done in Matlab or Mathematica because it's way easier to debug and see the results without having to worry about a compile error.
To answer your question, the engineers and the brainiacs develop the algorithm in the form of pseudocode and a "code monkey" translates it into whatever desired language. A typical code monkey will have a computer science background and they'd understand very little about the intricacies of the algorithm. For example, how many programmers understand this topic:
I'll give you more examples when I get on a desktop.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Wallie(m): 12:24am On Jul 13, 2016|
Here's another example: I'm trying to develop a machine learning algorithm that can be used to predict prices of items based on past prices. You can think of it as being able to predict future stock values based on past values.
This has almost nothing to do with programming per se except it will need to be coded in some language ultimately.
Here's some Python code implementing something similar http://www.analyticsvidhya.com/blog/2015/08/common-machine-learning-algorithms/
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Jengbetiele: 2:12am On Jul 13, 2016|
I understand your point very well. But if you do not know what an algorithm does coding will not be easy. And even if you find your way through you are likely going to write an expensive code with respect to storage and speed of execution. This is where having a good knowledge of algorithm in general does the magic.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Nobody: 3:24am On Jul 13, 2016|
I wonder what this thread is doing on FP after so many years? The nairaland moderators funny gan o. They are no better than wailers as far as this board is concerned.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by ewa20buredi100: 8:42am On Jul 13, 2016|
so Sirs, what are the categories of programmers and how do they rank in terms of spearheading technological innovation?
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Scholar01: 8:50am On Jul 13, 2016|
So many categories missing from your list boss ... especially in a gaming company.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by AntiWailer: 8:50am On Jul 13, 2016|
I still dnt understand too.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by AntiWailer: 8:51am On Jul 13, 2016|
The best time to start is NOW.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Wallie(m): 12:11pm On Jul 13, 2016|
Let me give it one last try: I don't mean to suggest that algorithm developers do not know how to code. I'm only trying to say that "coding" is a tool that is used to implement the developed algorithm. Their expertise primarily lies in whatever subject matter that they're trying to develop an algorithm for.
Further, that's not to say that some programmers do not know how to develop some algorithms, especially, textbook based ones. I'm only suggesting that different skill sets are usually needed. Algorithm development is more theoretical because you're trying to find the best solution (algorithm) to a problem.
Here's another everyday example: students write papers using Microsoft Word but that does not necessarily mean that they're typing experts (typists) or even that proficient using Word. Word is just a tool that they use to get their paper across. The very subject of the paper may be where their expertise lies.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by WhyAmISoQuiet: 12:56pm On Jul 13, 2016|
AntiWailer:If look at his post really well, you will see that it is aimed at web development. So he is right. You can do much web development without any knowledge of algorithms because they have already been implemented as tools, technologies, frameworks, libraries etc. Even at that, abstraction introduces a new range of complexities... so there would still be more work to do and one man can't do them all
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by AntiWailer: 1:03pm On Jul 13, 2016|
What is algorithm ?
After answering that question, then think about the possibility of solving a maths question without any step consciously or unconsciously.
1 + 1 = 2.
that you know it is 2 without blinking does not mean your brain did not follow any step to arrive at the answer. It only did it very fast.
So you can not perform any programming task without understanding the solution steps.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by WhyAmISoQuiet: 1:12pm On Jul 13, 2016|
AntiWailer:Ok... I agree but that is not what I meant. I was talking about algorithms in "Data Structures and Algorithms"
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by AntiWailer: 1:49pm On Jul 13, 2016|
When u get to that realm, there is nothing like "Algorithm Guy"
They are mathematicians , experts who use more than "if then else" or "go to" to achieve the solution.
When they get the solution, as a programmer, you still have to break it down into how you understand it before you can teach the computer to do the same (Code)
Fermat's Theorem, Shortest Distance Problems , Network logic etc.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Olumyco(m): 2:20pm On Jul 13, 2016|
Well what Larisoft is trying to convey is rooted in the Topic. "Areas of Expertise". Any thing that involves programming requires algorithm. He his separating out Algorithm because of Expertise. The same way he separated GUI. As U know that in Game programming U will need UI, algorithm and so on..... He is separating these areas out based on interest and what some pple are good at.
Like the case of Algorithm. Some pple can easily look for solution to a problem and quickly figure out the procedural steps to solving the problem and when they want to implement..... most of them implement using console based tools. To me most guys like these are good in solving programming questions. But when it comes to developing an App like enterprise App... It becomes a problem. Also many Algorithm guys are good in working in collaboration with an app producing programmer so that the two can work togeda and achieve a common goal. U will agree with me that even when u av developed an algorithm for a particular problem like how to calculate a GP..... U will still av to develop another algorithm for how U will turn it into a GP calculator App. And this time around ur algorithm will no more b GP based but User based. U will start considering how to accept input, what input not to accept, database necessary or not, user friendliness, intuitiveness, security........ and so on.
From the way I understand Larisoft, Most Algorithm guys solve Programming challenges and provide solutions to It and are not bothered abt the implementation into an app that users will use and that is why the decision making of an algorithm guy is low compare to an App producing programmer who code apps for users to use.
Note that it is possible to be good In algorithm and also real world implemention (App). I don't believe the OP mentioned anything like it's not possible to have more than one area of Expertise.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Olumyco(m): 2:22pm On Jul 13, 2016|
The only area I am not comfortable with the categorization is that Technology Guy. That technology guy needs to be clear and straight forward.... It's somehow looking like a developer.... And a developer is different from a programmer.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by larisoft: 2:38pm On Jul 13, 2016|
Thanks so much guys. I've been exposed to perspectives I didnt think of while writing this. Thanks Olumyco, Jagbantiele, e.t.c.
Algorithms as referred to in the article is not the basic kind of algorithm where the steps are obvious (i.e. collect user name and print it). Am talking about steps that are game changing, and efficient as hell. Many 'technology guys' do not know it. If I ask an algorithm question on this board, it may be unanswered for a day at least while there are many great programmers on this board.
And yes! You can code enterprise applications today without being good at algorithms. No one implements sort anymore. No one implements search anymore. No one implements encryption. All these have been provided in libraries, and stackoverflow. All you need to do is familiarize yourself with the technologies so you can copy and paste or import as the case maybe. But you should know that using the algorithms of others doesnt make you an algorithm guru. You will become dumb once you meet a problem no one has attempted before. Hence, the algorithm guys are different from the guys who are great at learning new technologies.
One painfully missing category here would be security experts.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by jayblinx(m): 3:51pm On Jul 13, 2016|
privatetisa:boss I can help
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Wallie(m): 4:45pm On Jul 13, 2016|
This is the very point I was trying to make! Jobs strictly dealing with algorithm development are far and few between but they do exist. There are a lot of instances where generic libraries will be insufficient to do what you want. In those instances, you will need someone with core knowledge and/or ability to dissect the needed algorithm.
Here's another anecdote: I worked on an invention where the guy modified a Merkle Hash Tree to reduce the number of computations needed when athenticating digital signatures. The original Merkle Tree was invented in 1979 and here we are in 2016 with an improvement. It took an inordinate amount of time to figure out what the hell was going on!
Algorithms are continually being improved because we are trying to do more with less and, even though processors are now more powerful than ever, manufacturers are trying to extend the usable time of the batteries in our mobile devices. Every single native function in your smartphone is being optimized. No matter how good a function like GPS is, nobody will want it if it kills your fully charged phone in 30 mins.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Charpell(m): 9:33pm On Jul 13, 2016|
Olumyco:Whats the different between Developer and Programming.
I wrote an algorithm for solar energy calculation before programming it to make an app. Would you say i am a developer or programmer?
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by kennynelcon(m): 11:35pm On Jul 13, 2016|
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by khattab008: 5:30pm On Jul 16, 2016|
Pls, Can I pm you?
Need some mentoring and have some questions to ask.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by kanirip: 7:08pm On Jul 17, 2016|
I have been reading most of the comments on this thread and, for me , the OP , although quite simplistic, is on the right track. There are NOW many more 'specializations' in IT than be qualified in 6-9 categories but for the most part, the OP is right ( He is a lot more 'righter' in the Nigerian Context than he is in a Global technology context)
And for the AntiWailer person, please don't spread false information on a public fora. A LOT of UI/UX Engineers DO NOT know about Algorithms just as much as Algorithms people don't need to know how Font design and Psychology of Human Mind to keep users engaged for a Public facing application. People require specialization and while some fields allow for Skills Mixing ( Site Reliability/DevOps), majority of the classic fields at the Top IT organizations require people who are simply the best in their fields and not Jack-of-some-trades.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by AntiWailer: 7:23pm On Jul 17, 2016|
No be only UI/UX engineer. Go and read the content of what he posted and contextualize it.
It is not an argument of specialization. That is a no brainer. Even when you go deeper, programmers specializes on languages.
It is about his categorization and definition of such category.
If u want to assemble a development team look for a Technology Guru and an algorithm guy differently.
Best Of Luck.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Olumyco(m): 4:00pm On Jul 18, 2016|
To me programming and development go together and one preceeds the other which is programming. So one shud first be a programmer and move into development to be a PROGRAMMER-DEVELOPER. In a case where u find someone building a website or any app without the knowledge of programming what do U call such a person?
In Web development there are many What You See Is What You Get (WYSIWYG) software that someone who does not know jack of programming can use to develop UI of website. The person can further start looking for another tool/script to integrate for backend services. Get me: the person starts looking for tools or script or online platform to use to achieve backend services. This quite different from someone looking for libraries or frameworks or runtime to use to achieve a big task because when u get a library or framework or runtime U will still write some codes based on the APIs exposed by the libraries/frameworks/runtimes.
So the idea is that an ordinary developer make use of already made software, online tools, written scripts etc to achieve development.
A programmer who is also a developer write codes, make use of libraries, frameworks etc to achieve his goal.
An ordinary developer does not have freedom to go beyond the capability of the tools he Is using. Meaning he limited to the capacity of what he is using.
A programmer who develops apps has freedom, flexibility etc to achieve whatever he wants to achieve.
An ordinary developer sticks to only one way of developing something. He cannot switch easily from tools to tools because of cost of learning. Hence he is rigid and static.
A programmer-developer can switch to anything within the language of his choice. Thus he is dynamic
......and so on..
I believe U must av heard or seen adverts like "learn how to develop a website or app without writing code"... Those that go for dat are ordinary developers.
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by kanirip: 11:17am On Jul 31, 2016|
Oga what are you saying? What the hell is a Programmer-Developer?
Nigerians just make theories from thin air. Maybe in the world of Olumyco, such is acceptable but in the actual world of IT no such thing exists. You want to confirm? Go to stackoverflow jobs and search for that position.
And please, please, please stop saying that 'programmer-developer ' are restricted within their language. I have never seen a Java Engineer who couldn't figure out python in a day or 2.
A lot of Nigerians think like you but I am sure All these things and more you will learn once your company goes live!
|Re: Categories Of Programmers (by Areas Of Expertise) by Olumyco(m): 12:48pm On Aug 01, 2016|
Those that understand, understand what I am saying. Don't be bothered too much about that nomenclature of Programmer - developer.... many pple here already know what I am saying.
I actually started as a developer and I know my limitations. It was when I ventured into real core programming that I know the difference. So don't worry U will understand as time goes on.
Thanks for ur concern.
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