Religion is bullshit while believe is a lie and knowledge is to know, seek the truth, youth nowadays are lazy to research
Know thyself

Well, if this is true, I say Welcome to this new brother to Islam. May Allah make him steadfast in the deen.
Empiree roypcain demmyz and brothers I can't imagine how anu.. naki and Co would feel about this

hakimmiyya:


I expected you to go through your quote but pride will not allow you discover the mistake you made in your quote. Please again compare the quote below with yours may be you will discover your blunder.

John: 3 v 18

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

. Your quote

'He that believeth on Him(Jesus) is not condemned:but he that believeth not is condemned already,because he hath believed in the Name of the only begotten Son of God.'(John 3:18)

Thanks for pointing it out.I thought you were saying the verse contradicted the other verse you quoted.
I've modified.

thorpido:
Scriptures must be fulfillled.We're in the last days.The bible says there must be a falling away first.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 says,'Let no one deceive you by any means,for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed....
(Vs 10) ....and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth,that they might be saved and for this reason,God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie.

All you can do is pray for him.He alone will stand before God,the Judge on that last day.

But Nairaland Islamophobes said 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity every year?

Demmzy15:
But Nairaland Islamophobes said 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity every year?

Where did they get their figures from?Feel good statistics.
Some muslims convert to Christianity and some Christians also leave the faith to become muslims yearly.

It's not about figures with God,it's all about those who choose the Truth.Remember Noah and a few people were saved during the flood that destroyed the earth.God is not interested in 'big numbers'.

Alhamdulillah! one less mad man.

thorpido:
Thanks for pointing it out.I thought you were saying the verse contradicted the other verse you quoted.
I've modified.

Now let me ask you. Is it right for you to use your own standards to judge him because he doesn't hold the same believe with you?

Since your brother claimed that he his better informed. Rather ,i expected you to hold the view that he is in a better position to know the truth because I believed he must have made a enough research before arriving at the decision he made .Unlike you that is viewing issue from one perspective.
If you don't have taste of cookies baked by two different makers.How do you know which taste better by tasting one and leaving out the other?

piperson:
I don't even know what to do, he was very christian-like and spiritual, I even admired his way of life because he he lived a life that was almost flawless, Infact he was one of people that I can say that he really acted according to the BIBLE... I'm very confused don't know what to do or say. is it that he really saw the true religion or.. please I need answers.. how do I make him come back to christ... can I even preach to him? he was a great preacher.

Gradually gradually, he'll know the real truth. Losing religion totally is the real truth. Domino Reverad the God who created Jehovah/Allah does not like being worshipped. He likes those who make finding and use their brains.

udatso:
Well, if this is true, I say Welcome to this new brother to Islam. May Allah make him steadfast in the deen.
Empiree roypcain demmyz and brothers I can't imagine how anu.. naki and Co would feel about this

khakhakhakhakhakha. laughing in roman, am sure parishbookadict is about to get stroke

May Almighty Allah safe us from fruitless effort like that of those you mentioned

Demmzy15:
But Nairaland Islamophobes said 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity every year?

you no go kill person

hakimmiyya:


Now let me ask you. Is it right for you to use your own standards to judge him because he doesn't hold the same believe with you?

Since your brother claimed that he his better informed. Rather ,i expected you to hold the view that he is in a better position to know the truth because I believed he must have made a enough research before arriving at the decision he made .Unlike you that is viewing issue from one perspective.
If you don't have taste of cookies baked by two different makers.How do you know which taste better by tasting one and leaving out the other?

Is it right to use God's standards to judge him is the more appropriate statement.

@second bolded,what makes it a better informed position?The word better is subjectively used here I hope you know?You will agree with me that joining an occult does not have good consequences at the end.Do you know there are many after doing their research and becoming 'better' informed have chosen to join a cult?
Can you see that saying 'better' doesn't necessarily mean so!

thorpido:
Is it right to use God's standards to judge him is the more appropriate statement.

@second bolded,what makes it a better informed position?The word better is subjectively used here I hope you know?You will agree with me that joining an occult does not have good consequences at the end.Do you know there are many after doing their research and becoming 'better' informed have chosen to join a cult?

Can you see that saying 'better' doesn't necessarily mean so!

How did you know he he didn't use God standards? This is what they term as ethnocentric attitude which you have just displayed.

The same way you have judge by your own standards he might as well use his own standards to judge you too.

Allah(God) said

(Truly, the religion with Allah(GOD)is Islam.) Allah states that there is no religion accepted with Him from any person, except Islam.

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him) ﴿3:85﴾.

In this Ayah ﴿3:19﴾, Allah (GOD)said, asserting that the only religion accepted with Him is Islam,

(Truly, the religion with Allah(GOD) is Islam.)

Allah (GOD) says:

(Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of rivalry, after knowledge had come to them.) meaning, some of them wronged others. Therefore, they differed over the truth, out of envy, hatred and enmity for each other. This hatred made some of them defy those whom they hated even if they were correct. Allah then said,

Allah (God) says:

(And whoever disbelieves in the message of Allah (God) meaning, whoever rejects what Allah sent down in His Book,

(then surely, Allah (God) is Swift in reckoning.) Allah (God) will punish him for his rejection, reckon him for his denial, and torment him for defying (rejecting) his scriptures.

hakimmiyya:


How did you know he he didn't use God standards? This is what they term as ethnocentric attitude which you have just displayed.

The same way you have judge by your own standards he might as well use his own standards to judge you too.

Allah(God) said

(Truly, the religion with Allah(GOD)is Islam.) Allah states that there is no religion accepted with Him from any person, except Islam.

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him) ﴿3:85﴾.

In this Ayah ﴿3:19﴾, Allah (GOD)said, asserting that the only religion accepted with Him is Islam,

(Truly, the religion with Allah(GOD) is Islam.)

Allah (GOD) says:

(Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of rivalry, after knowledge had come to them.) meaning, some of them wronged others. Therefore, they differed over the truth, out of envy, hatred and enmity for each other. This hatred made some of them defy those whom they hated even if they were correct. Allah then said,

Allah (God) says:

(And whoever disbelieves in the message of Allah (God) meaning, whoever rejects what Allah sent down in His Book,

(then surely, Allah (God) is Swift in reckoning.) Allah (God) will punish him for his rejection, reckon him for his denial, and torment him for defying (rejecting) his scriptures.

So now God is Muslim? According to what you write here now? Lol

hakimmiyya:


How did you know he he didn't use God standards? This is what they term as ethnocentric attitude which you have just displayed.

The same way you have judge by your own standards he might as well use his own standards to judge you too.

Allah(God) said

(Truly, the religion with Allah(GOD)is Islam.) Allah states that there is no religion accepted with Him from any person, except Islam.

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him) ﴿3:85﴾.

In this Ayah ﴿3:19﴾, Allah (GOD)said, asserting that the only religion accepted with Him is Islam,

(Truly, the religion with Allah(GOD) is Islam.)

Allah (GOD) says:

(Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of rivalry, after knowledge had come to them.) meaning, some of them wronged others. Therefore, they differed over the truth, out of envy, hatred and enmity for each other. This hatred made some of them defy those whom they hated even if they were correct. Allah then said,

Allah (God) says:

(And whoever disbelieves in the message of Allah (God) meaning, whoever rejects what Allah sent down in His Book,

(then surely, Allah (God) is Swift in reckoning.) Allah (God) will punish him for his rejection, reckon him for his denial, and torment him for defying (rejecting) his scriptures.

I didn't use my standard,I used the Scriptures' standard which is God's word.

The religion with Allah is Islam.The God Who sent Jesus isn't interested in religion.There's no religion that has the power to save.That's why when muslims die,they still need prayers in the grave.

God sent Jesus with something more powerful than religion which is eternal life that brings a man into a relationship and a fellowship with God.He receives forgiveness of sin and a life that makes him meet and walk in God's standards.

thorpido:
I didn't use my standard,I used the Scriptures' standard which is God's word.

The religion with Allah is Islam.The God Who sent Jesus isn't interested in religion.There's no religion that has the power to save.That's why when muslims die,they still need prayers in the grave.

God sent Jesus with something more powerful than religion which is eternal life that brings a man into a relationship and a fellowship with God.He receives forgiveness of sin and a life that makes him meet and walk in God's standards.

It's when you people don't know what to say that you resort to claim that God is not interested in religion because you people are confused.

Let me educate you here. The meaning of religion is a belief system in terms of faith in the supernatural being(God) entitled to obedience and worship which one professes inwardly and outwardly.

Even your bible identified with religion. The truth is that,it's only when you lack the proper understanding of a particular thing you begin to exhibit illusion due to ignorance.

You are expected to believe in something first with all your heart and might (meaning of religion)before you begin to have a personal relationship with whatever you believe in passionately.

Bible Verse
James 1:27 says, "Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." Visiting people is an outward thing. A stain is something someone can see. To be unstained means people don't see "the world's" stains on you.

The same word is also used in Acts 26:5, "I lived as a Pharisee, the strictest sect of our religion."

He used God standard too to discover the truth and not his personal standard.

Therefore ,judge him not with your standard.

Please try and make a enough research and stop whipping sentiments.

The bible says: Seek ye the truth and the truth shall set you free.

hakimmiyya:


It's when you people don't know what to say that you resort to claim that God is not interested in religion because you people are confused.

Let me educate you here. The meaning of religion is a belief system in terms of faith in the supernatural being(God) entitled to obedience and worship which one professes inwardly and outwardly.

Even your bible identified with religion. The truth is that,it's only when you lack the proper understanding of a particular thing you begin to exhibit illusion due to ignorance.

You are expected to believe in something first with all your heart and might (meaning of religion)before you begin to have a personal relationship with whatever you believe in passionately.

Bible Verse
James 1:27 says, "Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." Visiting people is an outward thing. A stain is something someone can see. To be unstained means people don't see "the world's" stains on you.

The same word is also used in Acts 26:5, "I lived as a Pharisee, the strictest sect of our religion."

He used God standard too to discover the truth and not his personal standard.

Therefore ,judge him not with your standard.

Please try and make a enough research and stop whipping sentiments.

The bible says: Seek ye the truth and the truth shall set you free.

Let me be the one to teach you here.
Your definition of religion is true but your understanding of God and the bible Scriptures you quoted is limited.
The people who had the religion of God were the Jews because God chose them and they were the ones who worshipped God and could obey Him because He made Himself known to them and they knew Him.The rest of the world had religions but did not know God.
When it pleased God,He decided that Jesus should come into the world so that by Jesus,the rest of the world may know Him.
See this bible verse:
'All things are delivered unto me of my father: and no man knoweth the Son except the Father;neither knoweth any man the Father,save the Son and him to whom the Son will reveal Him'(Matthew 11:27)
Many believe in God(the existence of God) but do not know Him.Jesus is the One Who reveals God(The God Who sent Jesus that is).The purpose of the coming of Jesus is for the forgiveness of sins and the establishment of a relationship with God- establishing a fatherhood with God(Like a son to a father and a father to his son).

I have a question for you,do muslims have a fatherhood with God?Of course the answer is no.As Christians,we have a fatherhood and that is not called religion.In the scripture you quoted,Acts 26:5,'...I lived as a pharisee,the strictest sect of our religion',did you notice Apostle Paul said I lived and not I live? The reason is because he was a jew and had religion.With the coming of Christ,he no longer had religion but a relationship and a fatherhood with God.That was why he said,I 'lived' and not I still live.
Everyone today who believes in God by Jesus Christ has a fellowship/relationship with God and not a religion.

Many have different religions on the earth,the religions they have is not towards the God Who sent Jesus.He has no need for religion today!

[quote author=piperson post=46319457]I don't even know what to do, he was very christian-like and spiritual, I even admired his way of life because he he lived a life that was almost flawless, Infact he was one of people that I can say that he really acted according to the BIBLE... I'm very confused don't know what to do or say. is it that he really saw the true religion or.. please I need answers.. how do I make him come back to christ... can I even preach to him? he was a great preacher.[/quote
]



Dont bother thy self .


He was never a true true christian

Keep telling urself this to make u feel better

ikbnice:
If he isn't attacking and making blasphemous comments about his former religion, let him be. There is freedom of religion in the country.

What if he did?

thorpido:
Let me be the one to teach you here.
Your definition of religion is true but your understanding of God and the bible Scriptures you quoted is limited.
The people who had the religion of God were the Jews because God chose them and they were the ones who worshipped God and could obey Him because He made Himself known to them and they knew Him.The rest of the world had religions but did not know God.
When it pleased God,He decided that Jesus should come into the world so that by Jesus,the rest of the world may know Him.
See this bible verse:
'All things are delivered unto me of my father: and no man knoweth the Son except the Father;neither knoweth any man the Father,save the Son and him to whom the Son will reveal Him'(Matthew 11:27)
Many believe in God(the existence of God) but do not know Him.Jesus is the One Who reveals God(The God Who sent Jesus that is).The purpose of the coming of Jesus is for the forgiveness of sins and the establishment of a relationship with God- establishing a fatherhood with God(Like a son to a father and a father to his son).

I have a question for you,do muslims have a fatherhood with God?Of course the answer is no.As Christians,we have a fatherhood and that is not called religion.In the scripture you quoted,Acts 26:5,'...I lived as a pharisee,the strictest sect of our religion',did you notice Apostle Paul said I lived and not I live? The reason is because he was a jew and had religion.With the coming of Christ,he no longer had religion but a relationship and a fatherhood with God.That was why he said,I 'lived' and not I still live.
Everyone today who believes in God by Jesus Christ has a fellowship/relationship with God and not a religion.

Many have different religions on the earth,the religions they have is not towards the God Who sent Jesus.He has no need for religion today!

Those people who are in isaeral who called them self jew or israelite they are not real Jews do your research.

thorpido:
Let me be the one to teach you here.
Your definition of religion is true but your understanding of God and the bible Scriptures you quoted is limited.
The people who had the religion of God were the Jews because God chose them and they were the ones who worshipped God and could obey Him because He made Himself known to them and they knew Him.The rest of the world had religions but did not know God.
When it pleased God,He decided that Jesus should come into the world so that by Jesus,the rest of the world may know Him.
See this bible verse:
'All things are delivered unto me of my father: and no man knoweth the Son except the Father;neither knoweth any man the Father,save the Son and him to whom the Son will reveal Him'(Matthew 11:27)
Many believe in God(the existence of God) but do not know Him.Jesus is the One Who reveals God(The God Who sent Jesus that is).The purpose of the coming of Jesus is for the forgiveness of sins and the establishment of a relationship with God- establishing a fatherhood with God(Like a son to a father and a father to his son).

I have a question for you,do muslims have a fatherhood with God?Of course the answer is no.As Christians,we have a fatherhood and that is not called religion.In the scripture you quoted,Acts 26:5,'...I lived as a pharisee,the strictest sect of our religion',did you notice Apostle Paul said I lived and not I live? The reason is because he was a jew and had religion.With the coming of Christ,he no longer had religion but a relationship and a fatherhood with God.That was why he said,I 'lived' and not I still live.
Everyone today who believes in God by Jesus Christ has a fellowship/relationship with God and not a religion.

Many have different religions on the earth,the religions they have is not towards the God Who sent Jesus.He has no need for religion today!

You are just confusing yourself the more because of your inability to move out of the box so that you can be able to think outside the box.
From what you have said it is obvious that you are claiming that other prophets of God in the bible that came before Jesus did not know God except Jesus.
If we are talking about religion ,we are talking about a creed that God himself gave to those prophets.Which is not in any way different from what was given to Jesus himself. They were all brothers in beliefs and practices.
Which is worship the one true God with all your heart and might but don't associate partner with him.
That is the reason Jesus said he came to the world to adhere to the commandment given to Moses and not to abolish them because he knew that the mission is the same for every time and age.

You talking about other religions in the world is out of place because what I had explained to you earlier was the true religion (Abrahimic faith)given to the world by God through his prophets from the time of Adam to the last of them(Muhammad p.b.o.h)
They all had a relationship with God except you are trying to play holier than thou here.
In fact God worked wonders through them he certified them to be righteous and also held them in high esteem.Therefore using Apostle Paul as example should not arise at all because he was an unbeliever and not a follower of Abrahamic faith(religion).

Talking about father or no father. The use of father in the bible is used in a metaphorical sense just for you to understand the relationship between God and his righteous and obedient servant.
Fatherhood must not be taken in the real senses but figuratively.

Islam doesn't go against the word father (Abba) in Arabic and Hebrew for God,except one tries to reduce or perceive God in the human capacity to beget. If not the concept of fatherhood is not new to Muslims. Therefore,we don't need to over emphasizes it.
So.my brother the word Religion used is just for identification of believe and faith and worship in the Abrahamic way and nothing special or a big deal but just a misinterpretation by you and your likes.ok

Anyway I think you should just allow other people be and stop judging by what you believe. You have not made heaven yet.
That is why you are told not judge anybody.

hakimmiyya:


You are just confusing yourself the more because of your inability to move out of the box so that you can be able to think outside the box.
From what you have said it is obvious that you are claiming that other prophets of God in the bible that came before Jesus did not know God except Jesus.
If we are talking about religion ,we are talking about a creed that God himself gave to those prophets.Which is not in any way different from what was given to Jesus himself. They were all brothers in beliefs and practices.
Which is worship the one true God with all your heart and might but don't associate partner with him.
That is the reason Jesus said he came to the world to adhere to the commandment given to Moses and not to abolish them because he knew that the mission is the same for every time and age.

You talking about other religions in the world is out of place because what I had explained to you earlier was the true religion (Abrahimic faith)given to the world by God through his prophets from the time of Adam to the last of them(Muhammad p.b.o.h)
They all had a relationship with God except you are trying to play holier than thou here.
In fact God worked wonders through them he certified them to be righteous and also held them in high esteem.Therefore using Apostle Paul as example should not arise at all because he was an unbeliever and not a follower of Abrahamic faith(religion).

Talking about father or no father. The use of father in the bible is used in a metaphorical sense just for you to understand the relationship between God and his righteous and obedient servant.
Fatherhood must not be taken in the real senses but figuratively.

Islam doesn't go against the word father (Abba) in Arabic and Hebrew for God,except one tries to reduce or perceive God in the human capacity to beget. If not the concept of fatherhood is not new to Muslims. Therefore,we don't need to over emphasizes it.
So.my brother the word Religion used is just for identification of believe and faith and worship in the Abrahamic way and nothing special or a big deal but just a misinterpretation by you and your likes.ok

Anyway I think you should just allow other people be and stop judging by what you believe. You have not made heaven yet.
That is why you are told not judge anybody.

Isn't it such a contradiction that you are speaking so much about not judging and yet you say that about Apostle Paul?You judged him and yet you are the apostle of not judging?Can you see how hypocritical you are?
That tells so much why you don't understand my explanations because it's obvious you can quote bible passages but the understanding is missing.

No wonder you say I'm confused.

horlarwhalhe:


Those people who are in isaeral who called them self jew or israelite they are not real Jews do your research.

So who are they?Nigerians?

thorpido:
Isn't it such a contradiction that you are speaking so much about not judging and yet you say that about Apostle Paul?You judged him and yet you are the apostle of not judging?Can you see how hypocritical you are?
That tells so much why you don't understand my explanations because it's obvious you can quote bible passages but the understanding is missing.

No wonder you say I'm confused.

Please understand my explanation. I have not judge apostle Paul. I only called your attention to the fact that using Paul as example by you is out of place because he was not a believer in the Abrahamic faith back then before he accepted Christianity.

Let me refer you back to your quote

quoted,Acts 26:5,'.."I lived as a pharisee,the strictest sect of our religion',did you notice Apostle Paul said I lived and not I live? The reason is because he was a jew and had religion.With the coming of Christ,he no longer had religion but a relationship and a fatherhood with God.That was why he said,I 'lived' and not I still live"

So that is what I meant. I don't judge people but I try to bring facts to the forefront.
You citing Paul as example of someone having religion as a non believer back then was not proper because I was talking about Abrahamic faith and not idolatry religion. when I was trying to make you understand that God gave a religion to man in our earlier discussion,while you were de-emphasizing religion.

You are always eager to jump into conclusion about someone because of the mindset you have.

Anyway my advice to you is that you should try as much as possible to make more research about other people's beliefs.So that you can see issues from a different perspectives.
By doing that you will be very close to discovering the facts and also it will help you to stop being myopic.

Personal relationship with God and salvation depends on nothing but observing or keep the commandment of God.

Just then, a man came up to Jesus and inquired, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to obtain eternal life?” 17“Why do you ask Me about what is good? Jesus replied, “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18“Which ones?” the man asked. Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness,…

Leviticus 18:5
'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD.

Nehemiah 9:29
And admonished them in order to turn them back to Your law. Yet they acted arrogantly and did not listen to Your commandments but sinned against Your ordinances, By which if a man observes them he shall live. And they turned a stubborn shoulder and stiffened their neck, and would not listen.

Psalm 119:68
You are good and do good; Teach me Your statutes.

Ezekiel 20:21
"But the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, nor were they careful to observe My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; they profaned My sabbaths. So I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the wilderness.

Luke 10:28
"You have answered correctly," Jesus said. "Do this and you will live."

And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.

Leviticus 18:5 You shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if …

Ezekiel 20:11,12 And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which …

hakimmiyya:


Please understand my explanation. I have not judge apostle Paul. I only called your attention to the fact that using Paul as example by you is out of place because he was not a believer in the Abrahamic faith back then before he accepted Christianity.

Let me refer you back to your quote

quoted,Acts 26:5,'.."I lived as a pharisee,the strictest sect of our religion',did you notice Apostle Paul said I lived and not I live? The reason is because he was a jew and had religion.With the coming of Christ,he no longer had religion but a relationship and a fatherhood with God.That was why he said,I 'lived' and not I still live"

So that is what I meant. I don't judge people but I try to bring facts to the forefront.
You citing Paul as example of someone having religion as a non believer back then was not proper because I was talking about Abrahamic faith and not idolatry religion. when I was trying to make you understand that God gave a religion to man in our earlier discussion,while you were de-emphasizing religion.

You are always eager to jump into conclusion about someone because of the mindset you have.

Anyway my advice to you is that you should try as much as possible to make more research about other people's beliefs.So that you can see issues from a different perspectives.
By doing that you will be very close to discovering the facts and also it will help you to stop being myopic.

Personal relationship with God and salvation depends on nothing but observing or keep the commandment of God.

Just then, a man came up to Jesus and inquired, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to obtain eternal life?” 17“Why do you ask Me about what is good? Jesus replied, “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18“Which ones?” the man asked. Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness,…

Leviticus 18:5
'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD.

Nehemiah 9:29
And admonished them in order to turn them back to Your law. Yet they acted arrogantly and did not listen to Your commandments but sinned against Your ordinances, By which if a man observes them he shall live. And they turned a stubborn shoulder and stiffened their neck, and would not listen.

Psalm 119:68
You are good and do good; Teach me Your statutes.

Ezekiel 20:21
"But the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, nor were they careful to observe My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; they profaned My sabbaths. So I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the wilderness.

Luke 10:28
"You have answered correctly," Jesus said. "Do this and you will live."

And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.

Leviticus 18:5 You shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if …

Ezekiel 20:11,12 And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which …

Alright,you won't admit you judged Paul but you did.It's obvious you have a bias about him and I know a lot of muslims do.It's what they teach in the mosques anyway.

You need to study the bible again and find out about the man Saul who became Paul.He HAD religion!He was a jew and like he said in that scripture,he practiced the strictest of religion.Who else knew about the Abrahamic faith more than a Jew?You see your bias about Paul wouldn't make you consider that.
I already told you Jesus brought something greater than religion.He brought salvation and the power to become heirs of God.No prophet could bring that and even Muhammed could not.It's this purpose Paul understood and believed that made him say he once had religion but now has eternal life- a relationship and a fellowship with God.
Jesus is the seed of Abraham so how is the message of Paul not Abrahamic faith?

thorpido:
Alright,you won't admit you judged Paul but you did.It's obvious you have a bias about him and I know a lot of muslims do.It's what they teach in the mosques anyway.

You need to study the bible again and find out about the man Saul who became Paul.He HAD religion!He was a jew and like he said in that scripture,he practiced the strictest of religion.Who else knew about the Abrahamic faith more than a Jew?You see your bias about Paul wouldn't make you consider that.
I already told you Jesus brought something greater than religion.He brought salvation and the power to become heirs of God.No prophet could bring that and even Muhammed could not.It's this purpose Paul understood and believed that made him say he once had religion but now has eternal life- a relationship and a fellowship with God.
Jesus is the seed of Abraham so how is the message of Paul not Abrahamic faith?

You hardly understand anything because you are very myopic. Please I would advise that you stop jumping from pillar to post. You are fond of jumping from one topic to another without you finishing one before you go to another.
Please the tread is not about Paul but about you Christian trying to force your beliefs on another person that abandoned your religion by wanting to make him believe that he is on the wrong path. You are derailing the tread please.

Imagine how you have changed the topic to Paul. I have only called your attention to the fact that using Paul as example is a misfits and yet you failed to discern what I mean.Quite unfortunate. I never said Paul never believed in the Abrahamic faith but tried to make you understand that before he claimed to accept Christ he was not a believer in the Abrahamic faith. The fact that he was a Jew does not make him a believer then. We had Jews back then who did not believe in Abrahamic faith then too.
Before he met Christ he was neither a believer in the Jewish faith nor a Christian.So get that straight into your brain.

You can believe whatever you want to. But the truth is that,it doesn't make you right.
That is why the Qur'an says

"Unto you your beliefs and unto me my beliefs "

And also"there is no compulsion in matters of beliefs"

So stop muddling up issues here.

I have given you so many bible quotes earlier to prove to you that salvation is in keeping God commandments.Which Jesus himself confirms. Which you have not been able to refute. But rather all you do is to divert the discussion.

I would rather follow what Jesus said than following you. If your bible says anything in contrary to this. It shows it is contradicting itself and is full of errors.

hakimmiyya:


You hardly understand anything because you are very myopic. Please I would advise that you stop jumping from pillar to post. You are fond of jumping from one topic to another without you finishing one before you go to another.
Please the tread is not about Paul but about you Christian trying to force your beliefs on another person that abandoned your religion by wanting to make him believe that he is on the wrong path. You are derailing the tread please.

Imagine how you have changed the topic to Paul. I have only called your attention to the fact that using Paul as example is a misfits and yet you failed to discern what I mean.Quite unfortunate. I never said Paul never believed in the Abrahamic faith but tried to make you understand that before he claimed to accept Christ he was not a believer in the Abrahamic faith. The fact that he was a Jew does not make him a believer then. We had Jews back then who did not believe in Abrahamic faith then too.
Before he met Christ he was neither a believer in the Jewish faith nor a Christian.So get that straight into your brain.

You can believe whatever you want to. But the truth is that,it doesn't make you right.
That is why the Qur'an says

"Unto you your beliefs and unto me my beliefs "

And also"there is no compulsion in matters of beliefs"

So stop muddling up issues here.

I have given you so many bible quotes earlier to prove to you that salvation is in keeping God commandments.Which Jesus himself confirms. Which you have not been able to refute. But rather all you do is to divert the discussion.

I would rather follow what Jesus said than following you. If your bible says anything in contrary to this. It shows it is contradicting itself and is full of errors.

You accuse me of jumping from pillar to post yet you keep denying what is obvious.
You called Paul an unbeliever and judged him yet you choose to circle round that when you were the one talking about not judging.
You say Paul didn't believe in the Abrahamic faith when it's obvious you know nothing about the man except what you all have been told in the mosque.Paul was a jew who kept the Jewish laws and they were founded on the Abrahamic faith.Get your facts right.
Give me proof from scriptures that Paul was a man who didn't accept the Abrahamic faith.

[b][/b]

thorpido:
You accuse me of jumping from pillar to post yet you keep denying what is obvious.
You called Paul an unbeliever and judged him yet you choose to circle round that when you were the one talking about not judging.
You say Paul didn't believe in the Abrahamic faith when it's obvious you know nothing about the man except what you all have been told in the mosque.Paul was a jew who kept the Jewish laws and they were founded on the Abrahamic faith.Get your facts right.
Give me proof from scriptures that Paul was a man w
ho didn't accept the Abrahamic faith.

obviously you are acting like a drowning person who is struggling to keep afloat by holding onto whatever he could grab.Let me stress it again that Paul is not the bone of contention in this tread bit the tread is all about you people trying to condemn someone for changing is faith.

However in as much I don't want to dwell much on Paul which I feel is inconsequential here.I think I need to let you know some facts about Paul and is peganistic beliefs.

These are views of some religious scholars

Hyam Maccoby (Talmudic Scholar)

"As we have seen, the purposes of the book of Acts is to minimize the conflict between Paul and the leaders of the Jerusalem Church, James and Peter. Peter and Paul, in later Christian tradition, became twin saints, brothers in faith, and the idea that they were historically bitter opponents standing for irreconcilable religious standpoints would have been repudiated with horror. The work of the author of Acts was well done; he rescued Christianity from the imputation of being the individual creation of Paul, and instead gave it a respectable pedigree, as a doctrine with the authority of the so-called Jerusalem Church, conceived as continuous in spirit with the Pauline Gentile Church of Rome. Yet, for all his efforts, the truth of the matter is not hard to recover, if we examine the New Testament evidence with an eye to tell-tale inconsistencies and confusions, rather than with the determination to gloss over and harmonize all difficulties in the interests of an orthodox interpretation." (The Mythmaker, p. 139, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London,

Bishop John S. Spong (Episcopal Bishop of Newark)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference." (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)

Paul corrupted the Gospel of Jesus and replaced it, as the scholar Albert Schweitzer points out:

What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?

The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority.... The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."

(Albert Schweitzer, The Quest for the Historical Jesus)

“The Christian beliefs formulated by St. Paul are unreasonable and repugnant to the conscience of man; such beliefs cannot expect any reasonable allegiance from the advanced nations of the world as it is a religion of primitive people. The whole of modern Christian doctrines was not formulated by Jesus, but by St. Paul in his Epistle to the Romans where he laid the foundation of Modern Christian doctrines and based his exposition on the heathen practices of his day.”

(A.D. Ajijola states in his book “The Myth of the Cross”)

Paul was disguising the true face of Jesus with a hideous mask; this ‘mask’ later became known as “Christianity”. It is mysterious that Jesus was transformed into God ‘incarnate’ when Moses, his twin predecessor was not.

I have inquired into some of the fundamental doctrines of Christianity; the examination has led me to the conclusion that the dogmas of the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, the Divine-Sonship, the Original Sin and Atonement are neither rational nor in conformity with the teachings of Jesus. These dogmas came into being and were due to pagan influences. They show that Christianity has departed considerably from the religion of Jesus. (A.D. Ajijola states in his book “The Myth of the Cross”)

An eminent scholar of Christian history admits that the present-day Christianity is a “mask” on the face of Jesus but goes on to say that a mask worn for a long time acquires a life of its own and it has to be accepted as such. The Muslim believes in the Jesus of history and refuses to accept the “mask”. This, in a nutshell, has been the point of difference between Islam and the Church for the last fourteen hundred years.

A basic contrast between the Old Testament and the teachings of Paul reveal hundreds of contradictions. Paul established his own Church which later became the ‘Roman Catholic Church’ (sound familiar?).

James, the brother of Jesus, established the first ‘Church’ at Jerusalem (in 50 CE) before Pauline Christianity existed. It was sadly destroyed by the Pauline Church after the Jewish War (66-70 C.E.) and the Nazarenes were suppressed by the followers of Paul.

The Pauline “Christians” that exist today do not follow Christ, they should be called Paulians. The true Christians were the Nazarenes and Ebionites that no longer exist.

Paul degraded Jesus in the following verses:

Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, English Standard Version)

Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, 21st Century King James Version)

Paul emphasized that Christ was not perfect, hence his teachings should be discarded, because according to Paul, they are like ‘filthy and useless rags’ (Isaiah 64:6) and we must excel towards “perfection and maturity”. The deceptive editors changed the English translation of Paul’s damaging words. This outrageous statement has been softened in many other versions of the Bible:

So let us stop going over the basics of Christianity again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start all over again with the importance of turning away from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7. New Living Translation)

We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7, Contemporary English Version)

Jesus observed the laws of the Torah, but Paul changed the Gospel, corrupting it before it reached Europe.

“Paul deviated people towards lawlessness, through his strange philosophy that, the observance of the Law motivates to sin, thus justifying his innovation regarding the abolition of the Law” (ibid, p. 42)

“…not a single human being will be made righteous in God’s sight through observance of the Law. For through the Law comes the knowledge of sin”. (Romans 3:20)

“Christ has ransomed us from the curse of the Law in as much as He became a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13)

“the Scripture has all men imprisoned under sin” (Galatians 3:22)

What Paul invented was a great misconception. Purpose of revelations from God Almighty is never to mislead the people, or to induce them with sin, instead, they are always for the guidance of mankind. With the same purpose, the Law of commandments were revealed to prophet Moses (pbuh), and in later age, prophet Jesus (pbuh) was to sent to confirm and honor them, and finally to complete them, but not to abolish them (ibid, p. 42)

According to Jesus, the lawless ones will be thrown in Hell. (This includes all Christians)

"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:40-42 New American Standard Bible)

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:23, New American Standard Bible)

For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. (Mark 9:49)

"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. (Matthew 23:28)

I ask you,are you to follow the teaching of Jesus that is in line with Abrahamic faith or that of Paul that is pagan in nature?

[b][/b]

thorpido:
You accuse me of jumping from pillar to post yet you keep denying what is obvious.
You called Paul an unbeliever and judged him yet you choose to circle round that when you were the one talking about not judging.
You say Paul didn't believe in the Abrahamic faith when it's obvious you know nothing about the man except what you all have been told in the mosque.Paul was a jew who kept the Jewish laws and they were founded on the Abrahamic faith.Get your facts right.
Give me proof from scriptures that Paul was a man w
ho didn't accept the Abrahamic faith.

obviously you are acting like a drowning person who is struggling to keep afloat by holding onto whatever he could grab.Let me stress it again that Paul is not the bone of contention in this tread bit the tread is all about you people trying to condemn someone for changing is faith.

However in as much I don't want to dwell much on Paul which I feel is inconsequential here.I think I need to let you know some facts about Paul and is peganistic beliefs.

These are views of some religious scholars

Hyam Maccoby (Talmudic Scholar)

"As we have seen, the purposes of the book of Acts is to minimize the conflict between Paul and the leaders of the Jerusalem Church, James and Peter. Peter and Paul, in later Christian tradition, became twin saints, brothers in faith, and the idea that they were historically bitter opponents standing for irreconcilable religious standpoints would have been repudiated with horror. The work of the author of Acts was well done; he rescued Christianity from the imputation of being the individual creation of Paul, and instead gave it a respectable pedigree, as a doctrine with the authority of the so-called Jerusalem Church, conceived as continuous in spirit with the Pauline Gentile Church of Rome. Yet, for all his efforts, the truth of the matter is not hard to recover, if we examine the New Testament evidence with an eye to tell-tale inconsistencies and confusions, rather than with the determination to gloss over and harmonize all difficulties in the interests of an orthodox interpretation." (The Mythmaker, p. 139, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London,

Bishop John S. Spong (Episcopal Bishop of Newark)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference." (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)

Paul corrupted the Gospel of Jesus and replaced it, as the scholar Albert Schweitzer points out:

What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?

The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority.... The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."

(Albert Schweitzer, The Quest for the Historical Jesus)

“The Christian beliefs formulated by St. Paul are unreasonable and repugnant to the conscience of man; such beliefs cannot expect any reasonable allegiance from the advanced nations of the world as it is a religion of primitive people. The whole of modern Christian doctrines was not formulated by Jesus, but by St. Paul in his Epistle to the Romans where he laid the foundation of Modern Christian doctrines and based his exposition on the heathen practices of his day.”

(A.D. Ajijola states in his book “The Myth of the Cross”)

Paul was disguising the true face of Jesus with a hideous mask; this ‘mask’ later became known as “Christianity”. It is mysterious that Jesus was transformed into God ‘incarnate’ when Moses, his twin predecessor was not.

I have inquired into some of the fundamental doctrines of Christianity; the examination has led me to the conclusion that the dogmas of the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, the Divine-Sonship, the Original Sin and Atonement are neither rational nor in conformity with the teachings of Jesus. These dogmas came into being and were due to pagan influences. They show that Christianity has departed considerably from the religion of Jesus. (A.D. Ajijola states in his book “The Myth of the Cross”)

An eminent scholar of Christian history admits that the present-day Christianity is a “mask” on the face of Jesus but goes on to say that a mask worn for a long time acquires a life of its own and it has to be accepted as such. The Muslim believes in the Jesus of history and refuses to accept the “mask”. This, in a nutshell, has been the point of difference between Islam and the Church for the last fourteen hundred years.

A basic contrast between the Old Testament and the teachings of Paul reveal hundreds of contradictions. Paul established his own Church which later became the ‘Roman Catholic Church’ (sound familiar?).

James, the brother of Jesus, established the first ‘Church’ at Jerusalem (in 50 CE) before Pauline Christianity existed. It was sadly destroyed by the Pauline Church after the Jewish War (66-70 C.E.) and the Nazarenes were suppressed by the followers of Paul.

The Pauline “Christians” that exist today do not follow Christ, they should be called Paulians. The true Christians were the Nazarenes and Ebionites that no longer exist.

Paul degraded Jesus in the following verses:

Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, English Standard Version)

Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, 21st Century King James Version)

Paul emphasized that Christ was not perfect, hence his teachings should be discarded, because according to Paul, they are like ‘filthy and useless rags’ (Isaiah 64:6) and we must excel towards “perfection and maturity”. The deceptive editors changed the English translation of Paul’s damaging words. This outrageous statement has been softened in many other versions of the Bible:

So let us stop going over the basics of Christianity again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start all over again with the importance of turning away from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7. New Living Translation)

We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7, Contemporary English Version)

Jesus observed the laws of the Torah, but Paul changed the Gospel, corrupting it before it reached Europe.

“Paul deviated people towards lawlessness, through his strange philosophy that, the observance of the Law motivates to sin, thus justifying his innovation regarding the abolition of the Law” (ibid, p. 42)

“…not a single human being will be made righteous in God’s sight through observance of the Law. For through the Law comes the knowledge of sin”. (Romans 3:20)

“Christ has ransomed us from the curse of the Law in as much as He became a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13)

“the Scripture has all men imprisoned under sin” (Galatians 3:22)

According to Jesus, the lawless ones will be thrown in Hell.

"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:40-42 New American Standard Bible)

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:23, New American Standard Bible)


I ask you,are you to follow the teaching of Jesus that is in line with Abrahamic faith or that of Paul that is pagan in nature?

hakimmiyya:


obviously you are acting like a drowning person who is struggling to keep afloat by holding onto whatever he could grab.Let me stress it again that Paul is not the bone of contention in this tread bit the tread is all about you people trying to condemn someone for changing is faith.

However in as much I don't want to dwell much on Paul which I feel is inconsequential here.I think I need to let you know some facts about Paul and is peganistic beliefs.

These are views of some religious scholars

Hyam Maccoby (Talmudic Scholar)

"As we have seen, the purposes of the book of Acts is to minimize the conflict between Paul and the leaders of the Jerusalem Church, James and Peter. Peter and Paul, in later Christian tradition, became twin saints, brothers in faith, and the idea that they were historically bitter opponents standing for irreconcilable religious standpoints would have been repudiated with horror. The work of the author of Acts was well done; he rescued Christianity from the imputation of being the individual creation of Paul, and instead gave it a respectable pedigree, as a doctrine with the authority of the so-called Jerusalem Church, conceived as continuous in spirit with the Pauline Gentile Church of Rome. Yet, for all his efforts, the truth of the matter is not hard to recover, if we examine the New Testament evidence with an eye to tell-tale inconsistencies and confusions, rather than with the determination to gloss over and harmonize all difficulties in the interests of an orthodox interpretation." (The Mythmaker, p. 139, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London,

Bishop John S. Spong (Episcopal Bishop of Newark)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference." (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)

Paul corrupted the Gospel of Jesus and replaced it, as the scholar Albert Schweitzer points out:

What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?

The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority.... The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."

(Albert Schweitzer, The Quest for the Historical Jesus)

“The Christian beliefs formulated by St. Paul are unreasonable and repugnant to the conscience of man; such beliefs cannot expect any reasonable allegiance from the advanced nations of the world as it is a religion of primitive people. The whole of modern Christian doctrines was not formulated by Jesus, but by St. Paul in his Epistle to the Romans where he laid the foundation of Modern Christian doctrines and based his exposition on the heathen practices of his day.”

(A.D. Ajijola states in his book “The Myth of the Cross”)

Paul was disguising the true face of Jesus with a hideous mask; this ‘mask’ later became known as “Christianity”. It is mysterious that Jesus was transformed into God ‘incarnate’ when Moses, his twin predecessor was not.

I have inquired into some of the fundamental doctrines of Christianity; the examination has led me to the conclusion that the dogmas of the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, the Divine-Sonship, the Original Sin and Atonement are neither rational nor in conformity with the teachings of Jesus. These dogmas came into being and were due to pagan influences. They show that Christianity has departed considerably from the religion of Jesus. (A.D. Ajijola states in his book “The Myth of the Cross”)

An eminent scholar of Christian history admits that the present-day Christianity is a “mask” on the face of Jesus but goes on to say that a mask worn for a long time acquires a life of its own and it has to be accepted as such. The Muslim believes in the Jesus of history and refuses to accept the “mask”. This, in a nutshell, has been the point of difference between Islam and the Church for the last fourteen hundred years.

A basic contrast between the Old Testament and the teachings of Paul reveal hundreds of contradictions. Paul established his own Church which later became the ‘Roman Catholic Church’ (sound familiar?).

James, the brother of Jesus, established the first ‘Church’ at Jerusalem (in 50 CE) before Pauline Christianity existed. It was sadly destroyed by the Pauline Church after the Jewish War (66-70 C.E.) and the Nazarenes were suppressed by the followers of Paul.

The Pauline “Christians” that exist today do not follow Christ, they should be called Paulians. The true Christians were the Nazarenes and Ebionites that no longer exist.

Paul degraded Jesus in the following verses:

Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, English Standard Version)

Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1, 21st Century King James Version)

Paul emphasized that Christ was not perfect, hence his teachings should be discarded, because according to Paul, they are like ‘filthy and useless rags’ (Isaiah 64:6) and we must excel towards “perfection and maturity”. The deceptive editors changed the English translation of Paul’s damaging words. This outrageous statement has been softened in many other versions of the Bible:

So let us stop going over the basics of Christianity again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start all over again with the importance of turning away from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7. New Living Translation)

We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God. (Hebrews 5:7, Contemporary English Version)

Jesus observed the laws of the Torah, but Paul changed the Gospel, corrupting it before it reached Europe.

“Paul deviated people towards lawlessness, through his strange philosophy that, the observance of the Law motivates to sin, thus justifying his innovation regarding the abolition of the Law” (ibid, p. 42)

“…not a single human being will be made righteous in God’s sight through observance of the Law. For through the Law comes the knowledge of sin”. (Romans 3:20)

“Christ has ransomed us from the curse of the Law in as much as He became a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13)

“the Scripture has all men imprisoned under sin” (Galatians 3:22)

According to Jesus, the lawless ones will be thrown in Hell.

"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:40-42 New American Standard Bible)

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:23, New American Standard Bible)


I ask you,are you to follow the teaching of Jesus that is in line with Abrahamic faith or that of Paul that is pagan in nature?

The so-called scholars are now your authority in condemnation of Paul?Did you think for a moment that if you consider Paul as fallible,what makes the so-called scholars infallible?
They are not because they align with what you want to believe.


We'll be going round in circles if we continue this argument.It's obvious you want to believe what you want to.

The writings of Paul you quoted and condemned as displacing that of Jesus do not in any way but a lack of understanding of scriptures is the reason why you think so.I would have explained those scriptures to you and compare with the words of Christ but you will still choose to drag it.I can see the misinterpretation done by the so-called scholar in the bolded part I quoted.

God is the Judge and on the last day we all will know the truth just as the bible says.Those who will be on the side of Jesus(Who is with God) and those who will not.We all will see that day.

God will guide you in His Light.

ikbnice:
This is serious. Honestly, there must have been something which prompted him to have a change of mind. And the last time I checked, there is freedom of religion in Nigeria. It's only that violence is not allowed.
cc lalasticlala, mynd44

What is the financial status of the guy,
Was he passing through some difficulties and needed the church help and the church failed to help him.

Because muslim are very generous and cooperative more than our churches.

thorpido:
The so-called scholars are now your authority in condemnation of Paul?Did you think for a moment that if you consider Paul as fallible,what makes the so-called scholars infallible?
They are not because they align with what you want to believe.


We'll be going round in circles if we continue this argument.It's obvious you want to believe what you want to.

The writings of Paul you quoted and condemned as displacing that of Jesus do not in any way but a lack of understanding of scriptures is the reason why you think so.I would have explained those scriptures to you and compare with the words of Christ but you will still choose to drag it.I can see the misinterpretation done by the so-called scholar in the bolded part I quoted.

God is the Judge and on the last day we all will know the truth just as the bible says.Those who will be on the side of Jesus(Who is with God) and those who will not.We all will see that day.

God will guide you in His Light.

The scholars that you are trying to belittle are certified Christian theologians in the Christiandom and what they said about Paul are facts.They even went further to cite numerous evidence in the bible to support their claims. I expected you to counter them by bringing forward your own evidence.
But as usual rather prefer to cunningly dodge issues raised and begin to whip sentiments as usual.
Your inability to seek for knowledge that will help you discover the truth will not allow your mind to be willing to accept the truth.Rather you prefers to be a bigot. Too bad.

Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Mark 4:12
“That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.”

If Paul teaching contradict that of Jesus,which actually is the truth with so many evidence in the bible then Paul cannot said to have practice Abrahamic faith which Jesus practiced during is lifetime. Is just common logic.

1. On the time of the coming of the Lord

Paul says:

Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.

Jesus says:

Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.

2. On the source of the Truth and the true gospel:

Paul says:

1Cor.2
[13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.
Gal.1
[12] For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus says:

John.17
[14] I have given them thy word;
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.

3. On the God of the dead:

Paul says:

Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:

Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;

4. On the sum of the commandments:

Paul says:

Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus says:

Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.

5. On whom God has mercy:

Paul says:

Rom.9
[15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.

Jesus says:

Matt.5
[7] Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

6. On forgiveness of trespasses:

Paul says:

Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
Rom.4
[25] who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Jesus says:

Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

7. On being justified:


Paul says:

Rom.3
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Jesus says:

Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

8. On the cost of eternal life:


Paul says:

Rom.6
[23] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus says:

Matt.19
[29] And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
Luke.14
[28] For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?
[33] So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.

9. On what is honorable among men:

Paul says:

2Cor.8

[21] for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men.
Rom.12
[17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men.
Rom.14
[18] he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
1Cor.10
[33] just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

Jesus says:

Luke.16
[15] But he said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
Luke.6
[26] Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.

10. On Dying:

Paul says:

I Corinthians 15


31: I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!

Jesus says:

John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.

11. On the basis of judgment:

Paul says:

Rom.2

[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Jesus says:

John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.

I invite you to ISLAM the SUBMISSION to the ONE TRUE GOD the Abrahamic faith practice by JESUS.

"These are some of the Prophets whom GOD blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping." – Qur’an English Translation [19:58]


"And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." - New Testament (Matthew 26:39)

"And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid." - New Testament (Matthew 17:6)

"And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying," - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Genesis 17:3)

"Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Genesis 17:17)

"And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped." - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Exodus 34:

“And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.” - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Numbers 20:6)

"And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Numbers 16:20-22

And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with [their] faces to the ground. - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Nehemiah 8:6)

"And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Joshua 5:14)

"And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Ezekiel 9:

"And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD." - Old Testament (Tanakh) (2 Chronicles 20:18)

"And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Ezekiel 11:13)

"And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." - New Testament (Matthew 26:39)

"And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid." - New Testament (Matthew 17:6)

"And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying," - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Genesis 17:3)

"Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Genesis 17:17)

"And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped." - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Exodus 34:

“And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.” - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Numbers 20:6)

"And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Numbers 16:20-22)

And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with [their] faces to the ground. - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Nehemiah 8:6)

"And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Joshua 5:14)

"And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Ezekiel 9:

"And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD." - Old Testament (Tanakh) (2 Chronicles 20:18)

"And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Ezekiel 11:13)


Don't let the opportunity pass you by.

horlarwhalhe:
Religion is bullshit while believe is a lie and knowledge is to know, seek the truth, youth nowadays are lazy to research
Know thyself

man know thy self