I have an interesting theory, what if the answer is energy?
You know we cannot destroy energy, we can only convert it, what if energy always existed?  This universe, the planets and eventually man are consequences of energy? Earth adapted its own energy by whatever crazy means and life sprung up as a derivative of that energy chemical, mechanical and whatever?
What do you think guys? Do you have your own theories?

No doubt energey is involved in the process. The big bang must have resulted from concentrated energy of some sort. However, energy alone could not have ordered the universe in its present form. The dynamics of life on earth for example lead me to believe that there is another, more crucial element that you are missing. Just looking at the Human Eye for example and its amazing engineering, or the instincts of animals such as those that participate in the great cross atlantic migrations, sea turtles and wildebeest lead me to believe there is something more than just energy.

"Let there be Light." That's energy no doubt.

Deep Sight:

No doubt energey is involved in the process. The big bang must have resulted from concentrated energy of some sort. However,  energy alone could not have ordered the universe in its present form. The dynamics of life on earth for example lead me to believe that there is another, more crucial element that you are missing. Just looking at the Human Eye for example and its amazing engineering, or the instincts of animals such as those that participate in the great cross atlantic migrations, sea turtles and wildebeest lead me to believe there is something more than just energy.

"Let there be Light." That's energy no doubt.

It only needed to start a chain reaction, you have to understand that there is always some sort of order inside chaos ( even something as disastrous as fire has some sort of order inside it), that is where the theory of evolution comes in, I am just saying it is quite plausible that it is the simple answer we need.

Kai Chris you wan start your own religion? I am sure this is how the medieval jews and other people thought before they all decided to come up with their various creation myths. They all had to attribute everything the see around them to something higher than them. You e be like say na energy be your own abi? Ok ohh let me know when the religion begins to flourish so that I can come and invest in it.

bindex:

Kai Chris you wan start your own religion? I am sure this is how the medieval jews and other people thought before they all decided to come up with their various creation myths. They all had to attribute everything the see around them to something higher than them. You e be like say na energy be your own abi? Ok ohh let me know when the religion begins to flourish so that I can come and invest in it.

lol bindex nothing of that sort, it just bugs me that everyone seems to think that something muct come into existence, what if things always were?

Does it really make sense to think that physical things always were?

Is it not common observance and common knowledge that physical things come into being and dissipate? Even the stars, creatures, etc. Were you always here?

The only things that have always been exist in the world of forms and ideas.

E.g: numbers; energy, time, space, etc.

Did numbers exist before we started counting? I thought we invented numbers . . .

Krayola:

Did numbers exist before we started counting? I thought we invented numbers . . .

So the sun was not 1 sun before we arrived on the earth simply because we were not there to count it?

And the galaxies & stars were not x billion galaxies and y billion stars simply becuase we were not there to count them? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Deep Sight:

So the sun was not 1 sun before we arrived on the earth simply because we were not there to count it?

And the galaxies & stars were not x billion galaxies and y billion stars simply becuase we were not there to count them? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I think u're begging the question.

The number system we use today is less than 2000 years old. The earliest evidence of counting dates back only about 30,000 years. IMO numbers have not always existed. We created a system that helps us to understand our universe, and it has proven to be pretty darn impressive and on point. That doesn't mean numbers have always existed. I feel we have a tendency of robbing ourselves of credit of anything profound. Maybe the relationships that numbers help us to express/articulate have always existed, but numbers themselves, in my opinion, have not always existed.

Chrisbenogor:

lol bindex nothing of that sort, it just bugs me that everyone seems to think that something muct come into existence, what if things always were?

The population of man is 6 billion and counting, that must mean there was a point when man's population was less than 3. Where did the first 2 folks come from?

If we always were and the earth has existed for billions of yrs our population would be much much larger.

davidylan:

The population of man is 6 billion and counting, that must mean there was a point when man's population was less than 3. Where did the first 2 folks come from?

[b]If we always were and the earth has existed for billions of yrs our population would be much much large[/b]r.

Lol
THis is one of the reasons i like you,

If the world have existed for billions of years, the present population would be in multiples of average annual birth multiplied by Billions and our present population could have been in trillions.

The current world population of 6billion plus, when divided by the average annual birth shows the world have only existed for thousands of years,

Except the world existed for billions of years without human beings or child birth or that along the line some thing cleared every human being on earth withing some thousands of years past, any other thing outside this could not show that the world have existed even a million years.

Not if we developed from apes or apelike creatures, which I believe we did. We've been here for less than 200000 years. Other human like species existed and are now extinct (which might explain the numbers). It wasn't one straight line from apes to humans. It's kinda like a tree with branches, and many branches falling off. we got lucky .  na we be shampion!! Homo sapiens are the only ones that survived.

If u don't believe in evolution this is useless to u. So please let's not make this another evolution vs creation debate. 

lots of info on human evolution here for anyone interested. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/07/index.html

Krayola2:

Not if we developed from apes or apelike creatures, which I believe we did. We've been here for less than 200000 years. Other human like species existed and are now extinct (which might explain the numbers). It wasn't one straight line from apes to humans. It's kinda like a tree with branches, and many branches falling off. we got lucky .  na we be shampion!! Homo sapiens are the only ones that survived.

If u don't believe in evolution this is useless to u. So please let's not make this another evolution vs creation debate. 

lots of info on human evolution here for anyone interested. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/07/index.html

To start with, your claim that we evolved from apes is A BELIEF that isnt founded in any scientific evidence.

Secondly, if we evolved from apes and the earth is billions of yrs old why do we have FAR LESS apes than man today since it means apes have been existing and multiplying for billions of yrs?

Yes, Boss!!

hmmmm people my point is what if energy always existed, not Man or animals.
I mean come to think of it can you fully really ever destroy something? I dunno I am just asking

Chrisbenogor:

hmmmm people my point is what if energy always existed, not Man or animals.
I mean come to think of it can you fully really ever destroy something? I dunno I am just asking

how did energy create such a complex organism like man?

Chrisbenogor:

hmmmm people my point is what if energy always existed, not Man or animals.
I mean come to think of it can you fully really ever destroy something? I dunno I am just asking

I get what u saying . . . . I thought that was what the whole big bang was based on. Isn't it? high density high heat . . . . abi heat no be energy again? I don't really know about the scientific stuff but it's possible the universe contracted back in time and blew the fukc up again. Maybe it's a cycle. . .like everything else.

davidylan:

how did energy create such a complex organism like man?

I dont know I am only just thinking wildly, do you have an idea how something can be thoroughly destroyed? I honestly have no idea.

Krayola2:


I get what u saying . . . . I thought that was what the whole big bang was based on. Isn't it? high density high heat . . . . abi heat no be energy again? I don't really know about the scientific stuff but it's possible the universe contracted back in time and blew the fukc up again. Maybe it's a cycle. . .like everything else.

The big bang is one of those things I have never really read, shocking but it always bored me a few lines into it, it seemed like loads of conjecture and stuff so I never really bothered. It was deep sight's thread that got me thinking, you know the whole something and nothing thing, what if something was default and that something was energy, can you fully change something to nothing?

I just read the whole thing on wikipedia about the big bang. It's not that difficult to grasp IMO, (I just replace the technical terms i dont know with small words like "chair" and "table"    ).  A lot of stuff they seem pretty sure about, but a lot more is still unknown. But u should check it out, it's pretty cool shit.

I learned in JSS3 tht energy can neither be created nor destroyed. don't know if that is still valid though

Krayola2:

I just read the whole thing on wikipedia about the big bang. It's not that difficult to grasp IMO, (I just replace the technical terms i dont know with small words like "chair" and "table"    ).  A lot of stuff they seem pretty sure about, but a lot more is still unknown. But u should check it out, it's pretty cool shit.

I learned in JSS3 tht energy can neither be created nor destroyed. don't know if that is still valid though

My point exactly

Krayola2:

I just read the whole thing on wikipedia about the big bang. It's not that difficult to grasp IMO, (I just replace the technical terms i dont know with small words like "chair" and "table"    ).  A lot of stuff they seem pretty sure about, but a lot more is still unknown. But u should check it out, it's pretty cool shit.

I learned in JSS3 tht energy can neither be created nor destroyed. don't know if that is still valid though

Its funny how eager atheist are willing to suspend logic to defend ANYTHING but the creation story. If i used this EXACT SAME "excuse" to explain creationism you'd be demanding "proof".

The "big bang" is not that difficult to grab because it is what it is - fantasy! It takes more faith to believe in the big bang theory than to believe that Jonah was swallowed by a whale. They "seem pretty sure" about a lot of stuff but provide you with NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE of how it could have occured YET you swallow it but would be ranting and raving for proof when it comes to the bible?

I hope you can see your own horrible hypocrisy in better focus.

Chrisbenogor:

I dont know I am only just thinking wildly, do you have an idea how something can be thoroughly destroyed? I honestly have no idea.

I have no clue but you are postulating from an unknown . . . did energy just appear out of nowhere? If it did how did it create a human? Look at the level of complexity of your own circulatory system . . . energy just created that out of random chance?

You know, its easier to believe God created me than to believe that i am just a product of statistical chance.

haha. davidylan, I have never said i believe in the big bang. I said i believe in evolution. Reading something and trying to understand it is different from believing it. And i'm not "defending' it. . .just learning about it. i don't pretend to have all the answers, i just try to be curious. If curiosity makes me a hypocrite in your world, its fine with me. If I never learned about christianity too, u might have had a point. It's good to know all sides IMO

Chrisbenogor:

I have an interesting theory, what if the answer is energy?
You know we cannot destroy energy, we can only convert it, what if energy always existed?  This universe, the planets and eventually man are consequences of energy? Earth adapted its own energy by whatever crazy means and life sprung up as a derivative of that energy chemical, mechanical and whatever?
What do you think guys? Do you have your own theories?

Interesting topic to think about but remember that energy itself is not eternal. It came into existence at the Big Bang with space, time and all matter.

Secondly, the idea of spontaneous abiogenesis has been flirted with and ultimately discarded. There is no scientific support for that hypothesis. As a matter of fact, if you press Richard Dawkins hard enough, he'll concede to you that he does not know how life actually began on this planet. Evolution, for all its attractions does not address that issue either - it merely picks up after life has mysteriously appeared. Maybe, some day we'll find some naturalistic explanation but as of right now, no one knows. Indeed, Richard Dawkins is open to the idea that some unknown extraterrestrial could have seeded this planet with its earliest form of life.

Alright, keep trucking fellas.

@david
Why are bothering yourself with these guys after all they descended from monkeys. They might still be thinking like their ancestors.

But do we all agree that nothing is really ever fully destroyed? So maybe something is the default.
@david
I get your point, you think evolution is mumbo jumbo no wahala.
Cheers.

Chrisbenogor:

I have an interesting theory, what if the answer is energy?
You know we cannot destroy energy, we can only convert it, what if energy always existed?  This universe, the planets and eventually man are consequences of energy? Earth adapted its own energy by whatever crazy means and life sprung up as a derivative of that energy chemical, mechanical and whatever?
What do you think guys? Do you have your own theories?

NO

I don't believe in theories. It kills. That is the reason i believe in GOD, the creator.

Krayola2:

haha. davidylan, I have never said i believe in the big bang. I said i believe in evolution. Reading something and trying to understand it is different from believing it. And i'm not "defending' it. . .just learning about it. i don't pretend to have all the answers, i just try to be curious. If curiosity makes me a hypocrite in your world, its fine with me. If I never learned about christianity too, u might have had a point. It's good to know all sides IMO

You cant see beyond your own nose. Its funny that your "curiousity" NEVER leads you to consider for even a remote second that the bible could be true. It seems your "curiosity" is mainly geared towards ANYTHING that can explain life outside of the bible.
You BELIEVE in evolution based on absolutely no facts at all, it makes me wonder why you think belief in Noah's ark is a fantasy.

Like i said earlier, its far far easier to believe Jesus raised the dead than to believe in evolution.

Chrisbenogor:

But do we all agree that nothing is really ever fully destroyed? So maybe something is the default.
@david
I get your point, you think evolution is mumbo jumbo no wahala.
Cheers.

Chris . . . as usual you're looking at energy from the wrong side of the coin. You've been hammering on it not being ever fully destroyed . . . have you wondered how that energy came to be in the first place? What does it mean by energy being default? Default from where?

I dont THINK evolution is mumbo jumbo, i KNOW it is basically nonsense cooked up by those desperate for an anti-creationist excuse.

davidylan:

You cant see beyond your own nose. Its funny that your "curiousity" NEVER leads you to consider for even a remote second that the bible could be true. It seems your "curiosity" is mainly geared towards ANYTHING that can explain life outside of the bible.
You BELIEVE in evolution based on absolutely no facts at all, it makes me wonder why you think belief in Noah's ark is a fantasy.

Like i said earlier, its far far easier to believe Jesus raised the dead than to believe in evolution.

clap for yourself!! I've read your bible. . .I've schooled u on it several times. Test me again if u like let me pound u into oblivion with scripture. Its fiction, myth, opata . . I'll believe tales by moonlight over that garbage!!

Krayola2:




clap for yourself!! I've read your bible. . .I've schooled u on it several times. Test me again if u like let me pound u into oblivion with scripture. Its fiction, myth, opata . . I'll believe tales by moonlight over that garbage!!

What's even more amazing is that you know the bible is myth even though you strenously hold on to the myth on evolution and are curious about another myth called the big bang. Such hypocrisy.

davidylan:

What's even more amazing is that you know the bible is myth even though you strenously hold on to the myth on evolution and are curious about another myth called the big bang. Such hypocrisy.

U know how we do!!

davidylan:

You cant see beyond your own nose. Its funny that your "curiousity" NEVER leads you to consider for even a remote second that the bible could be true. It seems your "curiosity" is mainly geared towards ANYTHING that can explain life outside of the bible.

Has it ever occurred to you that he might have once considered the bible to be true but left it after knowing that it isn't true so he decided to look else where? The bible does not explain how life came about at all it only makes wild claims without any evidence at all that are NOT true.

If every body will just drop his ego then I do not know will be a better answer to all these questions. I once tried to subscribe to evolution but I know its all another piece of conjecture no different from creationism so i dropped it off. The big bang is just another conjecture modern scientist use in recreating how they believe the universe came about but the BB it self has a lot of holes and provides no evidence at all. The universe did not come about from a big bang, Creationism (of all religions) is just the how medieval men thought the earth and what is contained it came about nothing more. The FACT still remains that nobody truly knows how the universe actually came about all we have are wild guesses and conjectures with no evidence to support them at all. I don't know is the best position to take for now because that is the truth for now no body knows.