UyiIredia:


No one is discounting the brain here. To be conscious you need the brain. Consciousness can be defined as a state of awareness of self and one's environs. As defined, that is not physical. So I find the argument that consciosuness is not immaterial to be disingenuous. I still think consciousness is spiritual. Yes.

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy HardMirror johnydon22 onetrack joseph1013 Kay17 plaetton Davien ValentineMary lepasharon reallest freecocoa K9blunt Amusaopeyemi

UyiIredia:


Didn't you read the OP. I said consciousness can't evolve because it isn't physical. So no self-evolved organism should be conscious.

4evergod2:



Most of these guys have a registered assumption that science is limitless and the scientists themselves have exclusively perfect knowledge of everything but even with all this knowledge they still fall ill and die young or old. They cannot even explain why we degenerate physically as the years go by and ultimately die.

.

Lilbrown007:

[size=20pt]Let's Take Out Ur Brain And See If U Will Still Be Conscious??[/size]

UyiIredia:


consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

Does that look like a physical thing? Physical things have extension in space by definition. Consciousness is not extended in space and so is not physical.

4evergod2:


Doing what you just posted above translates to death but even science has documented cases of people who were clinically dead and were brought back to life medically and they narrated things that happened in the hospital while they were dead and they were spot on accurate.

When I say dead I mean totally dead with no brain activity and eyes closed yer they could see the room and the people in it and even their own dead body from an elevated position. How was this possible?

The fact is that many lf these scientists whose theories many of you are still running around with have abandoned these theories and run to God and you are still on what they have left behind as they realised how foolish they were.

UyiIredia:


God does it through our brains.

"God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. The term was invented by Christian theologians not to discredit theism but rather to point out the fallacy of relying on teleological arguments for God's existence.[1] Some use the phrase to refer to a form of the argument from ignorance fallacy

vincentico:

we degenerate physically because we breathe in oxygen
this oxygen keeping us alive is the very thing killing us
the cells in our bodies undergo oxidation

Lilbrown007:

Can U Provide Evidence For This Claim?? I need Source!! Not lies

DO U Know What Coma Is?? Or What Induced Coma Is??

4evergod2:


So induced coma would enable one still see every single thing going in the room with their eyes closed?

4evergod2:


Doing what you just posted above translates to death but even science has documented cases of people who were clinically dead and were brought back to life medically and they narrated things that happened in the hospital while they were dead and they were spot on accurate.

When I say dead I mean totally dead with no brain activity and eyes closed yer they could see the room and the people in it and even their own dead body from an elevated position. How was this possible?

The fact is that many lf these scientists whose theories many of you are still running around with have abandoned these theories and run to God and you are still on what they have left behind as they realised how foolish they were.

4evergod2:



I think you are the one mistaken consciousness with awareness.

Consciousness is not what makds u know you are a boy or girl or that you can drive. Its way beyond that. Consciousness is your wake up moment in life. Example.....sperm meetd egg and implants and begins the process of becoming a baby. In that process at a point the heart begins to beat and we say the baby is alive but without consciousness the baby may well still assume he or she is not alive.

Example again.....science itself has repeatedly shown that there is consciousness even after someone has been certified as clinically dead. In these cases people who died and were brought back to life told those who brought them back all they saw them doing while they lay dead. It was like seeing everything from above or from a corner of the room

So how could they have accurately seen and known all this even in death?

You need to read up bro. Science is in the dark regarding consciousness.

Lilbrown007:

Olodo Thats Why I Asked U If U New What Coma Is?? Yes of Course U Will Still Be Self Aware EVEN With The Eyes Closed
https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/what-its-like-to-be-in-a-coma-193252912.html

plaetton:


You're just argued for argument's sake.
Nothing that wrote above remotely repudiates my earlier points.

Consciousness is the agglomeration of interactive information.
Even a computer, a non living object, retains interactive information even after it is turned off.

The scenario that you referred to above, even if true, supports the assertion that quantas of interactive information, when they agglomerate to a critical mathematical threshold, become independent of their source, whether that source is a biological entity or not.

This is what we call consciousness.
This is why the consciousness of a cockroach, a chimpanzee and a human being are different,.. simply because their levels of interactive information DIFFER.

Consciousness evolves in the way that , hand in hand with biological evolution.

You are slightly different person every day , because something, more interactive information is added to your consciousness every single day, every interaction.
Your consciousness is constantly evolving as your store of knowledge, your interactive information increases.

4evergod2:



See how silly u sound. So being in a coma with ur eyes closed you would still be able to SEE not just HEAR everything everyone does in the room and when you wake up yoh give them a truthful and accurate account of all they were doing while you had your eyes closed in a coma?

Google is your friend. Do your research and quit talkinf about induced coma when I was talking about actual death.

Lilbrown007:

[size=15pt]Still Playing Dumb Right U Still Don't Know What Coma Is??
Google Is Also Ur Friend Show Us U Ain't A Lie!! And Bring Ur Source Here!! [/size]

4evergod2:



Coma is not death. Stop deluding yourself

4evergod2:



You do not even understand this discussion so you are talking from the left wing.

Consciousness here is not talking about knkwledge. First of all try to grasp an understanding of that before you type.

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy HardMirror johnydon22 onetrack joseph1013 Kay17 plaetton Davien ValentineMary lepasharon reallest freecocoa K9blunt Amusaopeyemi

Lilbrown007:

[size=14pt]
And When Did I Say Coma Was Death?? Stop putting Words In My Mouth Just Like How U Christians Sorry I Ment Liars Do

So U Still Cant Bring Ur Source?? U know A Liar When U See One!![/size]

Lilbrown007:

[size=14pt]
And When Did I Say Coma Was Death?? Stop putting Words In My Mouth Just Like How U Christians Sorry I Ment Liars Do

So U Still Cant Bring Ur Source?? U know A Liar When U See One!![/size]

4evergod2:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largest-ever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-near-death-experiences-9780195.html


http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/german-scientists-prove-there-is-life-after-death/


http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study


Too many to post so research the rest yourself. These three should help and guide u.

HardMirror:


The bolded makes me laugh. so all doctors are christians now? Or all scientists are christians now? So I can't use my own common sense to weigh claims and decide, I have to follow your few supposed converted scientists?
Abeg talk better talk. Don't digress from the topic

UyiIredia:


God does it through our brains.

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy HardMirror johnydon22 onetrack joseph1013 Kay17 plaetton Davien ValentineMary lepasharon reallest freecocoa K9blunt Amusaopeyemi

Seun:


It is true that consciousness isn't well understood by science at this time. We can make robots that behave like conscious beings, but we do not believe they have the same sense of self-awareness that animals and people seem to have. This is absolutely true.

But the inability of science to explain something doesn't prove the existence of God. There was a time when we could not explain how life came to be, thunder & lightning, how birds fly, how bats navigate without light, rainbows, etc. People took our inability to explain those things as a sign of the existence of God, but now we understand them through science. We may eventually understand consciousness through science.

Your speculations about the nature of consciousness are just speculations. There's no evidence that they are correct. I could come up with mine, and they would be equally useless. You can't just make things up and act as if they are true.

4evergod2:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largest-ever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-near-death-experiences-9780195.html


http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/german-scientists-prove-there-is-life-after-death/


http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study


Too many to post so research the rest yourself. These three should help and guide u.

4evergod2:



Example again.....science itself has repeatedly shown that there is consciousness even after someone has been certified as clinically dead. In these cases people who died and were brought back to life told those who brought them back all they saw them doing while they lay dead. It was like seeing everything from above or from a corner of the room