There is something you guys havent taken into consideration:
The Mac is basically OS and Hardware (processor + board + chipset),
Windows is just a sucky, bloated, over-hyped, virus-prone, common-as-sh.it OS. But the i386/Alpha/Sparc underlying hardware rocks.
If you diss windows, i will even supply you with the words to use. but dont diss the PC platform - its come a long way, has been tested more, and is more easily modified (think of the WRAP boards, smartphones, PDAs - modified versions of the 8086 processor).
Apple - in case you didnt notice - has dropped the motorola processors used in their old macs and are now planning to use - wait for this - INTEL Processors!

Wind0w$ sucks, yes. Everyday i have to install internet settings for a cllient and XP takes 2 million years to boot, i silently curse the folks at redmon for making this beautifully colored but slow behemoth. Give me Unix/Linux anyday.

My point here is the Mac OS is superior (basically BSD now), yes, but the hardware is NOT. So Aple is making a wise move. More tweaking for us hackers, easy installs on PC platforms and embedded Mac OS, haha.

But i still like Linux cos its open source. and its free (hell, this IS Nigeria!)

Well, I think personally that since Macs have moved to i386 compliance processsors they aren't much superior to many home made PC's, they were better off with PPC, OS X is decent though, and its based upon FBSD, so you can expect the best usage of your hardware. It depends really what you're looking for, I know several nigerians with macs. It's not about having a mac, its about using it efficently.

alexis:

Boys - face it, MAC is a far superior OS compared to Windows - if i had enough money I would get the new MAC that runs on Intel and dual boot with Windows and test both out.

Seun - There are apps for MACs that will amaze you and when compared to windows, doesn't even come close to functionalities and performance. FYI - I use a apple shark UHF decoder to watch local TV stations on my MAC, this is not a TV card my friend - with Windows you can't dream of such functionality.

Haven't you noticed that most apps written for windows has a MAC version as well? No wonder Bill wants to stop Windows Media Player and Office for MAC platform soon.

Open source is the future, MAC & Unix makes a perfect combination. People will always wants windows around because they need their jobs that comes with windows wahala, viruses, windows has crashed, buying expensive software licenses etc.

where did u get the apple shark UHF decoder

Apple had to change to intel processors for one critical reason, their major supplier IBM was not giving them good enough service. The G5 processor has been in desktops for quite some time but its too fast to go into a laptop hence no G5 laptops , the ibook and powermac were stuck on the G4 so in order to ensure they stay up to par with intel PC's they had to go with a company for whom processors is the main business.

I do not agree that Apple hardware is not as good as PCs. Hell, my new(5 year old) G3 Imac is something else, I especially love when it goes to sleep. It goes to sleep in less than asecond, tap any key on the KB and its fully awake again, all this in a desktop computer, try thaton a winblows laptop. I especially love the way the power button glows when its sleeping, it dims itself and then glows wonderful piece of design.

Am going to get an Ibook but want to wait for the intel ones to come out. Worthy investment if you ask me.

For me, all the software I run are open source, openoffice,evolution,mozilla,opera,firefox,Gaim,Kopete,NVU, so it really does not matter to me which platform I am working on, MAC OS or Linux. Windows, sorry not my cup of tea.

MAC-os is good but its not a nigerian thing that we dont use it, in 2004,83% of the Operating Systems we used in the world where windows, so where is the space for Mac to run things, some ppl are so used to Windows they think its the only OS, just stick with wat u have.

tipsy289:

MAC-os is good but its not a nigerian thing that we don't use it, in 2004,83% of the Operating Systems we used in the world where windows, so where is the space for Mac to run things, some people are so used to Windows they think its the only OS, just stick with what u have.

man, that's what's annoying, that's the really annoying thing about nigerians. what they don't know they will always detest. they will not even care to know 'bout the OSes themeslves. the only thing they want to do is click away at whatnot. cnrist, it makes me frustrated,

sorry if this sounds incoherent, was just letting off some steam.

ghanaboy - PM me and I will tell you where I got the apple shark.

tipsy289 - If you only prepare yam by boiling it, you will never know that you can roast it, fry it or even toast it and it would taste better. Windows is popular because IBM was stupid and as much as I wouldn't like to admit, Bill Gates and his top strategists are damn smart.

Most Nigerians don't even know what a unix OS is or if there are other OSs apart from Windows. Legally, if all Nigerians were to get MS-Windows OSs the legal way, I reckon only few people would have access to Windows systems.

I will still tell you that MAC is the best OS I have used - rock solid, has a unix kernel, virus free and boy it rocks!

Well I know that Mac OS is a good OS.
My cousin used it and said it is a nice OS. But u cannot actually compare it to windows that is compatible with a very large variety of softwares and hardwares. All we should do is forget about the mac thing cos its only going to make us start learning computers all over again
WINDOWS FAR BETTER THAN MAC OR LINUX

stanech:

Well I know that Mac OS is a good OS.
My cousin used it and said it is a nice OS. But u cannot actually compare it to windows that is compatible with a very large variety of softwares and hardwares. All we should do is forget about the mac thing because its only going to make us start learning computers all over again
WINDOWS FAR BETTER THAN MAC OR LINUX

Duh! Far better in what way? Security wise? Price? Looks?
[Sigh]

Hey have you boys heard about what this narf fella's done?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/15/xp-on-mactel-the-movie/
Seems we'll eventually be able to dual boot Windows and OS X on the new Intel Macs. I think this might be what finally takes me over. Once I can afford a MacbookPro, I'm getting one. There's nothing to stop me now! Or maybe I'll just get a Mac mini.

when will the argument cease.

Windows and Mac as OSes have been around for more than 10 years. If the MAC os was SOOOO great. . . then it would dominate the market. Clearly, windows is the better OS.

Anyone who claims that macs are better because they don't crash like windows is ignorant. Plain ignorant. There is just no limit to the idiocy that would make someone make such a statement. Want to know why?

Well. . .for starters. . Apple makes BOTH the actual software (OS) and hardware (PC).

Microsoft only makes an OS. So, to make a true comparison, you will have to compare them on as similar a platform as possible.

Macs are CLOSED systems. I cannot just up and create a graphics card that will work on a mac. I can do that for a machine that supports windows (or a nix variant).

Windows works on everything, mac os only works on a limited set of things. With the windows OS, its buy once, use forever. With the mac os, if i get a new machine, I also have to pay for a new os.

What fuc*ing games exist for macs. . .really? tell me?

What mac software can I used in my career as and EE - barely anything. , perhaps when I need to type a memo or email. Aside from that, I have to do the real work on a windows or nix machine.

For the vast majority of the world, macs look nice, but are useless pieces of crap. This is why macs suck.

If macs are so great. . why can't apple run all their webservers on mac machines?

You can already see the writing on the wall. Apple is soon going to become a sony or gateway. They will only sell empty shells of a PC. Offer you windows or mac (or some linux variant) to preload onto your system. Their like Alienware. . . you can buy machines which offer the same performance as alienware for a lot cheaper, the only reason people buy it is because of the looks. That's all that mac has going for it now. Looks. Which means, its not about an OS. . . its about the hardware. . . which microsoft does not make or call windows.

;;

Word.

The PC platform rocks, but window$ sucks.

As far as I know, I have used the three most popular OSes, Mac OSX, Windows from 3.1 up to XP, and various distros of Linux. Mac OS works predominantly on Apple hardware, and the fact that they have such a tight control on their hardware is the major reason that they have such a cult following.

Now, while I was in Nigeria, I used windows cos it was the only thing available to me, albeit they were all pirated copies. Like someone said, if Nigerians had to pay for their OSes and software generally, practically everybody would go linux in Nigeria. When i started using linux, it was cos I could not afford to buy the M$ software. Just too damn expensive.

For the past two years I have been using different flavours of Linux and once in a while M$ XP though I find that use the XP partition less and less.

I had liked the design of the apple computers since the imac and ibook first came out in 1999. The transluscent case was a thing of beauty to behold. This year, I decided to buy an imac just to see how the apple really is and damn is that thing easy to use. Fine it might be expensive but when you drive a toyota and drive a BMW or Jaguar, the different is clear as hell. It is the same way with using an apple compared to a Pc.

My Imac runs OSX and as of today, I have not switched it off for the past three weeks. It works constantly and doesnt hang up. Try that with a PC. It is connected to the net 24-7 and I dont have any virus or trojan problem. Try connecting a PC to the net for 24 hours without any security update and anti virus.

Ultimately, it is a matter of choice but I understand that in Naija, macs are really not feasible. Here in the UK, i can get second hand ones but am looking at getting one of the new intel ibooks when it comes out. Apple have a finance option and I will exercise that option to buy it. Now, the fact that (K)Ubuntu works perfectly on apple hardware with wireless,bluetooth, suspend etc all working is another attraction though I really do not think I would leave the mac's beautiful interface.

Currently, I have one Imac, three laptops all running Linux with a 3GB partition for xp on my main laptop. The only reason i keep this is so as to be able to test web pages am building in internet explorer.

Just to let everyone know:

PC stands for Personal Computer.

An Apple, and many Macs are PCs. Windows is NOT.

Mac, also refers to an OS, which Windows IS.

Most people have never used Windows on a machine completely engineered by microsoft whose hardware is closed to everyone else. Microsoft doesn't even DESIGN PCs.

So, explain how you can possibly compare a Mac PC to MS Windows?

The only comparison that has any foundation, is Linux to Windows. Both are OSes. Both are targeted to run on anything. Both are targeted so that you can add ANY hardware to your system that you want - even - GASP - hardware not made by the company that sold you the system.

Also, for all those who claim Macs are the epitome of prettiness. . . . there are so many other machines out there, Acer Ferrari, Alienware, Cyberpower Inc, PortableOne, the Sony X505 to name a few.

Not only are they "pretty", they are also able to run NATIVELY, just about anything developed for a PC. Something, Macs could not do until they switched to the I86 family. Welcome Apple to the real world.

The world of viruses and trojans. Sony have a crap reputation for customer service and dependability. I wouldnt touch thier computers with a long pole.

The Acer ferrari still runs Windoze dont it? And once again the much acclaimed and expected Vista has been put off again till 2007, and am sure so they can see what will come in the next Mac OS Leopard and copy it, which is what they are good at doing anyhow.

If you really wanna enjoy using your computer, install Linux on it. If you can afford it, buy an apple.

Enjoy using your computer

Yeah right.

Who can use linux. Nerds. The average person can't make heads or tails of it. Heck, even the average nerds can't.

You can't believe how many times I walk by people who are having issues configures this/that/or the other in linux, and I ask them what they are up to, then laugh as I realize I could do the same thing within a few seconds in windows.

Anyone who has watched people try to use linux immediately knows the truth. Heck, if windows was so bad, why is it being pirated so much. Linux is FREE. People can use it legally, free from being sued by MS, so why?

Seriously, what can people do with linux that I cannot do on my Windows machine?

If you can name 5 things, I will capitulate and never enter any such discussion again.

Who can use linux. Nerds.

whoever told you such a'' _{lack of flavour''} lie

There are few people who use linux as their main os who are not nerds who had a choice.

The grandma's and grandpas out there who gamely use some GUI based version of linux which attempts to give a Windows look and feel to the OS so that people can pretend they are still using windows had no choice cuz their misguided grandson or granddaughter thought it would be a great experiment to have nana use linux and prove to the world that anyone could use it.

see, when people argue ignorantly, then I cant but laugh. The fact that you tried Linux donkey years ago, does not make you an expert on it. How long does it take you to install a fully functional XP machine, with MS office, Anti virus, and all drivers for your hardware? Am sure you spend minimum of 3 or 4 hours doing that. I dont even want to remember how many nights sleep I lost cos of the useless blue screen.

Now, how long does it take me to install Mepis or kanotix? Which by the way comes with all the software I need, Open office, Firefox, Evolution/Thunderbird, Gaim, Gimp? Less than 30 minutes thats how long. Try installing a fully functional windows machine in 30 minutes. And am not talking of installing on a speed demon either, am talking of a 366MHZ machine, printer, scanners, digital camera all work out of the box without any tweaking.

Fine, you can do lots of things with windows but how many times do you need to reinsall it? How many times are you afraid to open an attachment cos it might be a virus? I open any mail attachment without any fear of viruses.

Keep your windows my dear fellow, as for me, if am not on my Mac, am on linux.

allonym:

There are few people who use linux as their main os who are not nerds who had a choice.

The grandma's and grandpas out there who gamely use some GUI based version of linux which attempts to give a Windows look and feel to the OS so that people can pretend they are still using windows had no choice because their misguided grandson or granddaughter thought it would be a great experiment to have nana use linux and prove to the world that anyone could use it.

What do you call a nerd anyhow? Am an accountant by profession and if I can use Linux anybody can. You seem to think that linux is the terminal but then, have you ever tried using KDE? Most of the things that Vista is running after have been in other Oses such as linux and Mac for ages. Does Microsoft have anything resembling Kompose(linux), expose(apple) or Sherlock and Beagle search? Does windows come with widgets such as dashboard?

Abeg, go try linux and stop arguing outta ya hat ,man.

And yes, If I was to give my mum a computer what would I instal on it? Probably Ubuntu or PC linux. Why? Cos I will not be around to be trouble shooting it for her all the time. No crashes, no hanging, no blue screens.

On my thinkpad, I have only had to install things once. they all worked out of the box. I don't spend hours searching and downloading things online to make the oem usb to parallel port adapter I found work. I'm not constrained to only using devices someone has gotten around to writing drivers for.

If you can't create the list, don't bother trying.

In any case, I don't have to do the convincing, just look at market share. The great linux has been out for how many years now? How much market share has it gained in the past 5? past 8?

Don't make me laugh (well , .laugh even more).

jogego:

What do you call a nerd anyhow? Am an accountant by profession and if I can use Linux anybody can. You seem to think that linux is the terminal but then, have you ever tried using KDE? Most of the things that Vista is running after have been in other Oses such as linux and Mac for ages. Does Microsoft have anything resembling Kompose(linux), expose(apple) or Sherlock and Beagle search? Does windows come with widgets such as dashboard?

Abeg, go try linux and stop arguing out of ya hat ,man.

And yes, If I was to give my mum a computer what would I instal on it? Probably Ubuntu or PC linux. Why? Cos I will not be around to be trouble shooting it for her all the time. No crashes, no hanging, no blue screens.

What linux? The particular distribution that people spent years configuring just right? As soon as you trying using something written for another distribution, your machine breaks? Give me a break! I'm sure if somoene spent 2 years compiling applications for windows that integrated nicely, one would have the same integrated suite of stuff.

In any case, I don't need to have windows ship with all those fancy toys, I can just pick and choose which ones I want from somewhere else, which, ultimately, whether you want to admit it or not, is what someone else already did for you.

Funny, my mom uses a windows machine (actually, always has). I have never had to troubleshoot ANY problems for her. She has not had ANY problems. The things she needs my help for are stuff she had never done before. So, what is your point. Just because you cannot maintain a windows machine without it crashing, doesn't mean everyone else suffers your fate.

am not trying to convince you about nothing. Stick to your over bloated dinosaur and live me with my sweet running machine. If you havent used something before, then please do not criticise it. And what about market share? So if the whole world was jumping in a pit, would you follow them?

Abegiii, left matter. If you could tell me, i tried this distro, its another thing, then i wouldnt think u were ignorant but you say it loudly yourself.And saying two years was spent in doing something just goes to show your ignorance. Ubuntu for example comes out with a new version every 6 months. Abeg, just stop spouting rubbish about stuff you don't know.

And if you can maintain a windows machine without crashing, then you have to be in the minority in this world. It is aknown fact, that windows crashes like no mans business.

On ur thinkpad everything works out of the box? So you didnt install any driver for a printer? a scanner? a digital camera? PULEEEZE. You definitely have never installed an windows b4.

Ok. , a new version of Ubuntu every six months. . . and you are comparing it to an OS that has been largely unchanged for five years. The fact that Windows XP, which came out in 2001, still is a viable contender to the latest linux distro, clearly shows its no some piece of junk.


In any case, the differences between the two ultimately are subjective. Windows is just more intuitive. There is no getting around it. That's why its currently dominates the market (that and the costs to migrate everything to another system, though advances are daily making this easier and cheaper).

Linux is a great idea, and constantly is getting better, but, I still think it will take a few more years before a distro emerges that really kicks windows butt.

allonym,

However you look at it - MS Windows running on PC hardware or any super computer specially designed for it is not better than Linux or Unix in the primary areas of security, stability, reliability and interoperability.

I am not dissing Microsh*t, in fact I use windows if the business case is right and it is only right on my intranet that I use it. I use aspx to write our database management system and try out some of their new technologies coming out.

But ask Seun what powers this website and you will find out that Windows wasn't his list choice. I will tell you this much - Opensource is the future,microsh*t is gradually loosing it's grip on the home and SMEs market bit by bit.

this is turning into a war.

But reely, the only thing making me use windows right now is Macromedia Dreamweaver - i still use wysiwyg. if i could find a similar open-source software, i wd ditch windows. _{well of course maybe once in a while i wd boot it to play GTA3 and Tomb raider, besides, somebody has to open those FREAKING MS Access databases , and the fonts suck ,}
Please dont mention WINE - i've tried it and its messy using DW on an emulated api. In the world of programming, web devlopment and network administration, Linux rules. its just that your products will have to ship with src code, which is why pple dont devlop apps for linux. maybe why we havnt gotten around to using it big time here.

alexis:

allonym,

However you look at it - MS Windows running on PC hardware or any super computer specially designed for it is not better than Linux or Unix in the primary areas of security, stability, reliability and interoperability.

I am not dissing Microsh*t, in fact I use windows if the business case is right and it is only right on my intranet that I use it. I use aspx to write our database management system and try out some of their new technologies coming out.

But ask Seun what powers this website and you will find out that Windows wasn't his list choice. I will tell you this much - Opensource is the future,microsh*t is gradually loosing it's grip on the home and SMEs market bit by bit.

I agree with you. Windows is going to lose. But, at the moment, it is number one.

allonym,

Of couse they are number one. Do you know that all the top level guys in microsoft made a 800 score on the SAT paper test? This tells you they are intelligent individuals, I don't doubt that at all. All I am saying is that they are loosing their grip bit by bit.

Gridlock - In my opinion, there is not a better HTML editor than Dreamweaver but dreamweaver works on MAC and it rocks well.

;;

dakmanzero,

Good post. FYI - I see you really don't know much about MACs, I will suggest you visit the apple website and see what a MAC can do for you. MACs make most of our animated movies - Shrek, Finding Nemo and other block-burst hitters.

Nor to mention that MAC has a BSD kernel - the options are endless. Mention some things that you think a MAC can't do - I will list endless tasks that a windows machine die under.

For unix - I have always said it's a far superior OS, but I think the best OS is OS/2.

dakmanzero:

Hey, Alloym

Trying to claim that windows is better than Linux just damages your credibility. Please don't do it.

Both are OSs for the IBM PC, which is a superior platform to the Mac (the point we have been making here for a while). However they achieve the same aim in different ways. Windows makes some concessions in configurability to make it appear more 'toaster like' or 'fridge-like', as a macintosh is.

but the point i have been making since is that any computer that is simple to use is merely fooling the user. This is because computers are complex.

On the macintosh, this illusion is more effective because of Apple's tight control over the hardware. Mac users have given up their freedom from the word go, so it is trivial for Apple to provide a crash-proof, virus-free system for computer 'users' so clueless they don't realise they have thrown 90% of their computing capability into the dustbin just so they can do 1 or 2 things without problems. Its a 'dummie's computer', kind of like a riding dodgem car as opposed to a real one.

on the PC, microsoft runs into the problem that PC users have NOT bent over to be ass-raped by some hardware manufacrture, and are tricking out their computers with SATA drives, multiprocessor systems, IRDA interfaces, RAID arrays, FLOPTICAL drives, LCD light gun sensors, SLI GEFORCE cards, and a billion other components from a wide variety of manufacturers. This means that any attempt to make things nice and easy will fail woefully, and so yopu must simply manage the 'degree of failure'. The end result is windows, where a lot of tasks can be completed real quick, but you put up with BSODs, viruses and other junk.

I agree (mostly) with you up to this point.

dakmanzero:

Linux is pure. And pure means the complexity is made REAL. but since it isnt trying to autoconfigure everything for you, it is rocksolid and super-stable once it is configured, and when you do something ONCE, you usually never need to revisit it again.

SO it may take you 5 mins to set something up on ure windows box, and 1 day to set up same on linux, but u will never have to revisit the setup again on linux, while the windows system will have to be reconfigured and reinstalled every other day. for some things, (ie many desktop apps) this is no problem, but for other things (most server apps) it is total nonsense.

end result? use windows on the desktop and linux on your servers. leave the macs for the suckers.

This is just not true. Maybe you've never had this problem. Try installing ONE single linux distro on ten different fully customized machines. You know, the type you build from scavenged parts or really cheap ones you find somewhere. 5/10 times, you will not be able to complete the installation or stuff will not work. This is because linux, while it works extremely well for systems it has been tested on and drivers have been written for specific hardware, when confronted by stuff it has never seen or wasn't configured for, it will break. I see this on a weekly basis. I'm not making this up. Windows will install on anything. But just like linux, if somebody wrote a half assed driver, then rubbish will not work.

There have been many companies that have attempted switching a lot of their stuff over from windows based pc's to linux. I remember one article in particular, they found that their costs had switched from that of software acquisistion to maintenance. Instead of having a few guys to manage the system, the had to ramp up the number of people needed to manage the linux machines, IT problems took longer to handle because even though these guys probaby had more linux knowledge and experience than you, and more than I will ever have in my life, they still couldn't fix things as fast as they could diagnose and fix windows problems.

Like i've said, right now, windows dominants for significant reason. Maybe in the next ten years, linux people would have seen past their heads enough to take care of the real issues holding them back, instead of pretending that they've gotten it right.

Let me put it this way,

Companies that have used windows for years on the same series of computers don't have issues with the OS.

Companies that have used linux for years on the same series of computers don't have issues with the OS.

Poor companies acquiring random machines are more likely to use Windows 2000 rather than linux or XP. Why, it is more likely to work and easier to debug. XP is even more likely to work, just more likely to crash as well. Linux is less likely to work, though if you are lucky to get it working, it would probably not crash.

If it doesn't matter to you to have a mix of linux/windows machines, then i suppose you'd go with whatever config you desire. If the software suite you plan on using requires homogenous machines to work well, they'd probably go with the win2k and save a lot of potential heartache, not to mention wasted time.