@ dakmanzero please, and please, if you do not know about something please do not criticise it. I am sure you have not tried installing linux in the past three years.

I will repeat again, I have used windows from 3.1 up to XP. I have installed win ME, XP, 2000 professional, 2000 Advanced Server, 2003 on various computers in the past.

I have installed various flavours of Linux e.g Mepis, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Knoppix, Suse, Kanotix etc on various laptops over the past one year.

I have installed Mac OSX twice on an Imac.

WINDOWS
1. Install Windows OS
2.Install drivers for Network card,wireless card, printer, scanner,etc etc
3.Install Software such as MS Office, Firefox, Thunderbird
4.Install Anti-virus b4 connecting to interner.
5.Install plug-ins such as Java,Flash,Adobe acrobat etc

Time taken: Minimum 3 hours.

Can you use your computer while it is installing Windows: NO

Simply Mepis
1.Put in CD switch on to boot into Live CD mode
2.Install Mepis onto your computer

Over 2GB of software compressed into 700 MB CD image.
most neccessary software all included in install viz Open office V2.0, Firefox, THunderbird, Gaim etc
Plug ins installed along with Mepis: Flash, Java, Adobe acrobat etc
Drivers for all major printer hardware included. Printer,scanner,digital camera,network card,wireless card ALL work without installation of extra drivers.

Time taken to install: Maximum 30 minutes

During the installation, continue to browse the net or do whatever you want to on your computer.

Now, kindly tell me which you think is easier? Linux was difficult ages ago, but since last year when I started using Linux, I have been pleasantly impressed and as far as am concerned, it beats windoze hands down

Now

@jogego: I love Linux as much as you do. Maybe even more, but Linux installations are usually NOT hitch free. XP Service pack 2 will usually have your drivers already so your computer just works after installation. Of course you're wide open to attacks from the internet but let's put that aside for now.

Linux is a totally different beast. Ever tried installing Linux on a laptop. . Sad, sad, sad. First of all, NVIDIA/ATI/Intel graphics card driversdon't come with Linux. I know there are reasons for that but that's not what we're talking about. They just aren't. You have to stand on your head to get your wireless card working. Unfortunately installing this driver isn't as easy as downloading a driver, double clicking and "Next"ing your way to a working video/wireless card. Linux is NOT ready for the mass market desktop.

I have only installed linux on a desktop once.

I only use laptops. I have never had any problem other than with getting my wireless cards working.

I refuse to believe that windows XP SP2 will install drivers for a printer, network card, wireless card, etc without asking you for the driver disk.

Mepis detects all my hardware out of the box. Ubuntu does too, though I use ndiswrapper to get my wireless working. Linux works very well with IBM thinkpads which is what I use, maybe am lucky? But am talking of my own experience.

I still installed Mepis on a Dell Latitude this past weekend, and Ubuntu on an IBM thinkpad 600E last thursday.

Suse 10.1, Ubuntu Dapper drake will also pop up a dialogue when u connect a new hardware and actually configure it for you.

Might be am lucky, but what can I say?

Umm,

My laptop has never asked me for drivers for any of the printers I've used.

It has never asked for drivers for anything I've connected to the usb.

I've never installed drivers for anything other than my minidisc player.

I run windows xp.

I'm not the exception, i'm the rule.

You can refuse to believe it all you want. . . heck, windows 98 had drivers for most of the common things I had (at the time). The only exception was my Iomega zip drive (parallel port).

jogego:

@ dakmanzero please, and please, if you do not know about something please do not criticise it. I am sure you have not tried installing linux in the past three years.

I will repeat again, I have used windows from 3.1 up to XP. I have installed win ME, XP, 2000 professional, 2000 Advanced Server, 2003 on various computers in the past.

I have installed various flavours of Linux e.g Mepis, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Knoppix, Suse, Kanotix etc on various laptops over the past one year.

I have installed Mac OSX twice on an Imac.

WINDOWS
1. Install Windows OS
2.Install drivers for Network card,wireless card, printer, scanner,etc etc
3.Install Software such as MS Office, Firefox, Thunderbird
4.Install Anti-virus before connecting to interner.
5.Install plug-ins such as Java,Flash,Adobe acrobat etc

Time taken: Minimum 3 hours.

Can you use your computer while it is installing Windows: NO

Simply Mepis
1.Put in CD switch on to boot into Live CD mode
2.Install Mepis onto your computer

Over 2GB of software compressed into 700 MB CD image.
most neccessary software all included in install viz Open office V2.0, Firefox, THunderbird, Gaim etc
Plug ins installed along with Mepis: Flash, Java, Adobe acrobat etc
Drivers for all major printer hardware included. Printer,scanner,digital camera,network card,wireless card ALL work without installation of extra drivers.

Time taken to install: Maximum 30 minutes

During the installation, continue to browse the net or do whatever you want to on your computer.

Now, kindly tell me which you think is easier? Linux was difficult ages ago, but since last year when I started using Linux, I have been pleasantly impressed and as far as am concerned, it beats windoze hands down

Now

@Jogego, please read my post.

You obviously did not. You have mixed things up completely, and it only makes u lose credibility- by showing that you are not reading the posts you criticize.

I believe your comments are directed at someone else. I won't say who. Go read the posts and figure it out.

hint: I am NOT the one criticizing linux for being hard to install.

Hopefully when you read my post you'll find that we agree on a lot of things.

And to the guy who said i dont know much about macs, when you want *real* power, even unix underpinnings don't cut the mustard. you are still constrained by the draconian Apple Interface Guidelines. Aaaaaaaargh! damn you steve jobs!

Similarly you are limited as to how much you can customize a mac- or repair it if an isolated part goes bad. these are real issues.

jogego:

@ dakmanzero please, and please, if you do not know about something please do not criticise it. I am sure you have not tried installing linux in the past three years.

I will repeat again, I have used windows from 3.1 up to XP. I have installed win ME, XP, 2000 professional, 2000 Advanced Server, 2003 on various computers in the past.

I have installed various flavours of Linux e.g Mepis, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Knoppix, Suse, Kanotix etc on various laptops over the past one year.

I have installed Mac OSX twice on an Imac.

WINDOWS
1. Install Windows OS
2.Install drivers for Network card,wireless card, printer, scanner,etc etc
3.Install Software such as MS Office, Firefox, Thunderbird
4.Install Anti-virus before connecting to interner.
5.Install plug-ins such as Java,Flash,Adobe acrobat etc

Time taken: Minimum 3 hours.

Can you use your computer while it is installing Windows: NO

Simply Mepis
1.Put in CD switch on to boot into Live CD mode
2.Install Mepis onto your computer

Over 2GB of software compressed into 700 MB CD image.
most neccessary software all included in install viz Open office V2.0, Firefox, THunderbird, Gaim etc
Plug ins installed along with Mepis: Flash, Java, Adobe acrobat etc
Drivers for all major printer hardware included. Printer,scanner,digital camera,network card,wireless card ALL work without installation of extra drivers.

Time taken to install: Maximum 30 minutes

During the installation, continue to browse the net or do whatever you want to on your computer.

Now, kindly tell me which you think is easier? Linux was difficult ages ago, but since last year when I started using Linux, I have been pleasantly impressed and as far as am concerned, it beats windoze hands down

Now

Funny. . . a couple friends of mine were just installing linux on their machines the other day. This was the routine:

1) Download the package they wanted
2) Configure another machine to be a compile farm
3) Build source on their machines, send to compile farm
4) Compile farm builds objects/executable,etc and sends back to their machine

Total time: 4 days

Could they use their computer during this time - HECK NO.


I've had the same experience with windows that you've had with linux. After the initial install of windows on my thinkpad, I cloned my hard drive. Now, if I want to put windows on another machine, I just clone that copy to a new hard drive, and change the cd key.

Guess what, this process takes 35 minutes. It takes about 30 mins to clone the drive, 4 minutes to place the new hd in its machine and boot to windows, and one minute to change the cd key.

Just like you, if I have all the drivers, apps, software, and OS, already packaged on a CD (or in my case, hard drive) ready for install, the process takes under an hour.

Oh, and while I'm doing this, I can be surfing the net, playing games, etc, while the cloning runs in the background.

You obviously just refuse to understand what am talking about. I specified what Linux distro I was talking about which was specifically Simply Mepis www.mepis;www.mepislovers.com. If you go down the route of Gentoo www.gentoo.org which sounds like what your friends are doing, that is a very geeky way. I am not a geek and I do not understand why I should take ages to do something I can do in minutes.

I say once again, that installing Mepis takes 30 minutes and allows me to use my computer while its installing, windows does not. I am talking about full installation and not cloning which is what you are talking about.

I currently use (K)ubuntu www.ubuntu.com and its installation takes about averagely an hour to install, so you can see, different distros(flavours) of Linux install in different time durations, especially since they have different methods of installation.

thank God @jogego finally realises I'm on his side!

@alloym, what he means is that unlike windows and the mac, linux is not just some *product* where you are confined to what ONE ENTITY decides what you can or can't do.

if you need ABSOLUTE CONFIGURABILITY you can obtain linux from debian or hgentoo, and spend days compiling the ultimate build for your system.

if you need INSTANT GRATIFICATION you can get linux from KNOPPIX where the whole thing installs in LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES with NO CONFIGURATION REQUIRED. Think that's a lie? download knoppix for free andf try it out! just google for KNOPPIX.

there are other linuxes that require little or no configuration, like ubuntu, kubuntu, and perhaps jogego's meis (noty heard of that before sha).

The bottom line is this:

WITH A PC AND LINUX I AM FREE. I CAN BALANCE CONFIGURABILITY AND POWER HOWEVER I CHOOSE. THE POWER IS NOT ONLY MINE, BUT THAT OF COUNTLESS OTHERS WHO WORK TO MAKE WHAT I WANT TO DO EASIER.

with windows and a PC, I am still free to an extent, with regards to hardware, but as far as the OS is concerned I have to bow to BIG BILL. what he says goes. I cant ask for more or less configurability, I only have what he gives me.

with MAC OS and a MAC, i am NOT FREE ANYMORE. I have to bend over and accept the shaft of the GREAT STEVE JOBS into my backside. what he says goes, and to hell with what I want. they decide what goes into the hardware, so they can give me a PC with an illusion of stability and ease of use that is simply a huge bundle of autoconfiguring interfaces on top of a previously free operating system.

If macs proliferate, computer illiteracy will proliferate. Macs are evil and should be exterminated, I say.

yeah we are agreed on linux but we go still disagree on top mac sha. Did u know that Ubuntu, Debian, Kubuntu, Suse, Gentoo etc all run on the mac?

For me, the mac compared to a PC is like comparing a BMW to a skoda, Mac being the BMW and pc being the skoda. Those things are just too beautiful and for me, it aint all about function alone, form has to play a prominent part

I still dont understand how windows will be installed without needing extra drivers and software. I know windows XP CD does not have microsoft office nor macromedia flash or adobe acrobat or Sun Java, so how this is done is still a mystery to me. All windows installs is text pad and paint and some other such mediocre fare.

your analogy of BMW vs skoda is wrong.

allow me to provide a better analogy:

BMW vs Nissan Skyline GTR

u see the BMW costs more, is more beautiful, and performs better than the nissan when you first buy it and tear nylon. However, if you try to modify it or boost its performance in any way, you will be made to realise that YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO. DRIVE YOUR CAR AND SHUT UP ABOUT WHAT IT CAN DO. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS TAKE YOUR CAR TO THE BMW SERVICE CENTER AND CLOSE YOUR EYES, IT WILL BE FIXED AND GIVEN BACK TO YOU.

HOWEVER the Nissan is cheaper cos, hey, it doesnt have a fancy name or slick designer-designed chassis. Also if u just drive it out of the showroom, sure the BMW will perform better.

BUT

the nissan can be pimped up in just about any way possible. Of course if u dont know the first thing about cars, or u have a crap mechanic, you will scatter you car to pieces but if u didnt want to get ure hands dirty u would have gotten a friggin BMW. In no time you will be leaving bmw users in the dust, not even having approached the cost of their expensive toys. And if your car goes bad, no sweat, any mechanic can help you, there are standard, cheap parts everywhere. PLUS you'll get better fuel economy at the end of the day cos the car doesnt bleed ure pocket dry every time u want to do something mundane (read: install decent terrain-generating software. free on PC, not on mac)

finally, windows is like the NISMO packs for nissan cars- a professional outfit owned by NISSAN with a stock set of visual and performance upgrades that instantly boosts your Nissan to supercar-level performance, taking the wahala of getting down and dirty fromyou. (in a way, nismo packs are more like plug-and-play linuxes than windows, but hey, analogies are never 100%)


if u want a skoda, just look to the pre-osx macintoshes. now in those days mac users were REALLY insane

puleeze, I wasnt talking about speed only, enjoying a car is not just about speed, for me its about luxury and dependability and that is one thing Bimmers have in abundance. Sure you can mod the skyline to go fater tht a jet, but can you get the luxury feeling of an M3 or an M5? The solid thunk when you shut the door? The way it handles and there re few cars at that price range that handles like a bimmer- I have owned two bimmers and driven at least 5 different types so I should know.

Those cars are built to last, and that is where my analogy comes in. A bimmer retains its value, a skoda does not. Simple. TO know how much value the macs retain, do a froogle or ebay search and compare the value of 3 or 4 year old macs compared to their PC counterparts.

While the skyline is a wonderful car, give me a choice between that and an M3, even the old E30 M3, and my choice would be the M3. No thinking about it, no hesitation, but then, that is just me. And hey, who said you cant maintain your bimmer urself?

don't compare, MAC beats Microsh*t hands down

puleeze, I wasnt talking about speed only, enjoying a car is not just about speed, for me its about luxury and dependability and that is one thing Bimmers have in abundance. Sure you can mod the skyline to go fater that a jet, but can you get the luxury feeling of an M3 or an M5? The solid thunk when you shut the door? The way it handles and there re few cars at that price range that handles like a bimmer- I have owned two bimmers and driven at least 5 different types so I should know.

Those cars are built to last, and that is where my analogy comes in. A bimmer retains its value, a skoda does not. Simple. TO know how much value the macs retain, do a froogle or ebay search and compare the value of 3 or 4 year old macs compared to their PC counterparts.

While the skyline is a wonderful car, give me a choice between that and an M3, even the old E30 M3, and my choice would be the M3. No thinking about it, no hesitation, but then, that is just me. And hey, who said you can't maintain your bimmer yourself?

except of course, that with a computer, the value is entirely percieved.

PCs only lose value because the parts go out of production when they become obsolete. A macintosh, however, remains a macintosh even when obsolete. This of course, does not change the fact that it is OBSOLETE.

which is, in fact, representative of one of the biggest problems with macs: overblown value. Mac owners pay shitloads of money for an inferior performing product, simply because a brand has been marketed to them and they have been taken in by all the superficial hype. who the hell cares what a computer looks like! If it costs more than it's worth, its no more than chump value.

The car analogy is flawed mainly because cars have more of a use than just getting from A to B, they are projections of personality and status, and they are temporary living quarters, hence the need for beauty and luxury. However with a computer, we just want the friggin job done, period. If the machine looks like a 22nd century space jet who the hell cares? except those that dont know jack squat about computers in the first place.

PS: This argument is on the issue of HARDWARE, by the way. if u are comparing mac OSX and windows a whole new set of arguments apply, because with software, look and feel DO matter. But thats for a different discussion. what I am saying here is that an IBM-compatible PC is a superior computer to an Apple macintosh. To make it easier- imagine Mac vs PC from a linux user's standpoint and see what I mean. on what platform do you have more choice? more configurability? less need to recompile due to your crappy processors braindead instruction set? more raw speed? more flexibiltiy in deployment options? ALL ROUND GREATER POWER? plus the option, if you so desire, of getting apple-imitation casemods from taiwan (that are indistinguishable from a real mac, if you are so determined to make your computer 'lickable', steve jobs' words)

Aint nothing you can say that will stop me getting an intel ibook when it comes out, now if they come out in colours just makes it much more irresistible. If you think by using my imac and getting an ibook someone is shafting me, thats ya own opinion and it is a free world innit?

lol! see him! finally admitting 'tis naught but LUST!

Well what can i say. even we linux geeks are guilty of mac-lust. Tis just that when u start programming em u realise they are only good for taking to parties and oppressin ya friends, but dont do well as wives and refuse to bear children 4 u when u want em to! ruins d figure, u see,

Gotta hand it to stevie jobs and his crew. To create a brand out of machines as dry as computers, genius!

The new 17" mac book pro

http://www.apple.com/uk/macbookpro/

very cheap at just £1999.99

whao that is really cheap indeed, thats over $3500

though i am not a mac user, macs rox, but now that they are moving to intel based chips it kinda bothers me cos eventually u will be able to install windows on macs, use windows based software on macs. i do feel the profitability for apple in the computing sector may diminish. as they move to intel.

what do u guys think

thats just it

a friggin laptop for over 450 THOUSAND NAIRA!!!!! w00000000000000000000000000000000t?!?!?!?

that is NOT JUST A RIPOFF in naija, it is plain and simple lunatic stupidity!!!!!!

spend more than 250g on a laptop here and u are seriously in need of help!

my guy, i don't u r from nigeria, 3,500$ is cheap,

man get real, the highest i can buy a laptop for is 250k, and nothing more,

but honestly i love mac, has anyone used os X , its interface is just superb, better than xp,

but i get to use windows all the time cos my office uses windows

dakmanzero:

thats just it

a friggin laptop for over 450 THOUSAND NAIRA!!!!! w00000000000000000000000000000000t?!?!?!?

that is NOT JUST A RIPOFF in naija, it is plain and simple lunatic stupidity!!!!!!

spend more than 250g on a laptop here and u are seriously in need of help!

abeg no limit yaself ojare, if you have money you will buy better thing. While it is expensive, you get what you pay for. When your generic Dell or Acer is dead and buried, the apple laptop wwill still be working away. The IBM thinkpad is also quite expensive. New ultraportables cosing over $2000 but when you get it in your hand, you know its worth it. I have two old IBM thinkpads I use as my regular laptops and I wouldnt trade them in for a new Dell or Toshiba or what have you.

Having said all that, I cant in any good conscience pay that much on a laptop right now, but it doesnt hurt to dream and wish does it?

one visit from the broad street obtainers will see to it that 'beter thing' finds its way to its rightfulm owners!



Also by the time the dell is dead and buried I will have another 100x faster laptop!!!! while the mac user sticks to his relic cos he needs to justify his crazy purchase!

dakmanzero:

one visit from the broad street obtainers will see to it that 'beter thing' finds its way to its rightfulm owners!



Also by the time the dell is dead and buried I will have another 100x faster laptop!!!! while the mac user sticks to his relic because he needs to justify his crazy purchase!

emmmm just to let you know sha, that you are yet to convince me not to get a new mac book when it does finally come out. As long as its around the 699.99 region, am getting me one.

why should I convince u?

U will just hate me!

ever convinced a friend not to date a hot babe, for some *practical* reason?

He will slowly find reasons to hate you! even suspect u are banging her yourself!

Bros, if u are so consumed by techno-lust, and u gat the dough, by all means blow it!!!!

we need apple to be in business to keep our own PC prices falling down!

Apple's high prices for their machines does not affect the prices of other machines. Their high prices don't follow the price trends of other machines. Apple, in order to sustain their profitabiity, not to maintain false image, must charge a premium for their machines. I think though, they've started to realize that while they were able to gain a few hardcore users, most of the world sees through their bs. Now, they startoff by providing intel processor in their machines, RELEASE software that allows you to boot windows on it (even though for months and years before hand, Apple repeated said they will NEVER allow such a thing to occur).

We are hearing the death knell of this company. When they go under, the average price of a dell won't skyrocked just because apple doesn't exist. What may happen is that someone, Dell, Sharp, Gateway, Sony will buy the Apple name, and create ridiculously priced laptops to sell to the remaining people who think that paying $1000 more for your machine than other people confers upon you some sort of status.

@alloynm

preach on, preachah

u d man

It's a pity that scammers and con men have spoilt Nigeria image. It is also a pity that we can't use credit card in Nigeria. I am in Ghana and got my ibook and imac each less than $27 a month using my friend debit card in the States. So wetin una dey talk, apple machines are affordable. How many Americans do you think have $3,500 to buy laptops cash down?

If you have good credit, you can get anything you want and that includes a sweet machine like a MAC. I don't see Apple going down at all at all. Instead, their marketing strategy will make them capture more of the computer market.

meeeen we dey suffer for naija o

just dis february i was in the uk an wanted to take out a PC GAMER magazine subscription. payment, billing address, everything was jand, so they were kool. then I put my nigeria address for delivery an they just called the whole thing off.

i was like WTF?!?!?!? it is oyinbo money u are collecting! Im not even ordering from naija! youll get ya money! just post it to naija!!!!!! they were just like 'they dont do business with anything having to do with Nigeria'.

na wa o

p.s. There is an apple store in Abuja (ceddi plaza) and one in Lagos (civic centre and dolphin estate). Both stores deliver to any part of the country (I think) for circa N4000. Food for thought.

not really Apple Stores, just some unofficial retailer who sells at retail price.

I think Nigerians are more conversant with window cos of the speed and easy access to programs.Microsoft really made it compatible with users i.e its user friendly than any other O.S

I think some of the guys here are arguing blindly. I just recently got an Imac (after using Windows and diff flavours of Unix for Decades) and all I can say is that i have been very very impressed.

You guys need to use this machine even if for just a day and you will change your tunes.