mazaje:



And the convictions came about as a mater of experimentation. . . .

how?

Punishments to have changed so much and are not what they used to be in the past. . . people don't get stoned to death for disobeying their parents today. . .

punishments are irrelevant in this debate.

This is a LIE. . . you have no evidence to show that any god issued any commandment to any body. . . all you have are people writing various laws and ascribing it to their god. . .People living in other societies LONG before moses was born knew that stealing was wrong, lying was wrong, having sex with another man's wife was wrong. . . . . Even moses had to run away according to the bible when he killed an egyptian, because he knew he will be punished according to the bible. . why because he knew that killing was wrong. . .this happened long before his god gave him the 10 commandment according to the biblical story. . .Thou shall not kill was NOT giving by any god. . . people knew that it was wrong to kill LONG before Moses was born. . . .

blah blah blah. . . , .

1. God issued the 10 commandments and the evidences and proof for this abound.

2. why not produce evidences that support ur claim that people who pre-date the OT had laws similar to the ten commandments?

3. u goofed on the moses story. moses ran away because he killed an EGYPTIAN. if he had killed an hebrew man. . . .then he had commited no crime.

The Egyptians, The Chinese, The Greeks, The Indians. . .etc. . . . .

proof?

If you want to know what morality means consult the dictionary. . . .

why are u afraid of defining morality? what are u afraid of?

From surrounding culture, my experience and common sense. . .

which culture promotes "Do unto others as u want to be done to u" ? . . . . . . . .ur principle is STOLEN from the bible. . . . .u are not humble enough to admit it.

buda atum:

You can insist as much as you wish, Noetic, I for one, would rather you go and check the evidence. It would show you that laws, specifically, the commandments  (And do note that the commandments of the Jews are way more than the commonly known ten!) existed long before even the Jews did in societies that had no concept of the Judaic God. As to them being barbaric, sentiment alone would stop one saying that even the Jews were barbaric people before they got their laws. They were after all passed to educate people out of barbarism, which is what laws are intended for. If you passed those laws today, one should ask if you were passing them for barbarians. Below are the accepted beliefs about the origin of the Judaic Ten Commandments.

There are three basic beliefs about the origin of the Decalogue:
They were written and/or dictated by God at Mount Sinai, circa 1450 BCE.
They were written by three Hebrew authors (or groups of authors) between 922 and 622 BCE based upon ancient Hebrew myths and legends.
Their original source was in Pagan documents written by Hittites or Egyptians which were plagiarized and added to by ancient Hebrew writers. Source

I agree to the bold part. This illustrates my point that what we inherently called morality today is a function of convictions. . . . . .these convictions are traceable to religion. . .in this context God. u just stated above that the jews lived a barbaric life until the commandments came. . . . . I agree.

God's laws (convictions) has been a universal barometer for morality.

No one abided by the laws of the Ten Commandment, Noetic! Not even the Jews whom you believe created them abided by them. One just need read the Bible to know how often they were broken to know that. But if you want to know what other societies had similar laws as the ten, then I assure you that the Egyptians had them encoded in their laws for one. Where else would Moses have learnt them from, or do you really think some sort of spirit carved them in stone for him on some Mount Sinai?

The Babylonians had them too. Perusal of their history will show you that they too had them handed down to them by Gods of some sort.

The Earliest Laws
Every society needs to have laws to protect itself and its members. Even ancient civilisations had laws, which were part of their religious ritual and tribal customs. These were passed on by example and by word of mouth.

The oldest written set of laws known to us is the Code of Hammurabi. He was the king of Babylon between 1792 BC and 1758 BC. Hammurabi is said to have been handed these laws by Shamash, the God of Justice. The laws were carved on huge stone slabs and placed all over the city so that people would know about them. Judges were appointed to see that they were obeyed. [url=http://www.civicsandcitizenship.edu.au/cce/pl_early_laws,9534.html]source[/url]

As to religion being the promoter of laws, that is so. Religion, after all is the only form of educating a people that existed in antiquity. And education in those days was mainly the teaching of the proper conduct of a people. That some higher authority needed to be resorted to to make people obey those laws is evident; even the Egyptian Pharaohs were not authority enough.

what are the contents of these early laws u claim precede the OT?

God's laws (convictions) has been a universal barometer for morality.

are you saying buddhists had no moral code considering they didn't believe in a supreme being?

and which God's laws. Zeus, jesus or vishna?

noetic2:

how?

People try things and select what is best for them and the survival of their societies as a whole. . .

punishments are irrelevant in this debate.
blah blah blah. . . ,  .

It is important. . .even thepresent day jews that believe in yahweh and in the laws of moses do NOT practice what is written in the Torah. . .That shows that their morality has evolved from that of their ancient ancestors. . .

1. God issued the 10 commandments and the evidences and proof for this abound.

Where is your evidence of  any god giving moses the 10 commandments?   . . . .Humans wrote the 10 commandment no? If you have any evidence of yahweh giving moses the 10 commandments beside what is written in the bible then let me know. . .

2. why not produce evidences that support your claim that people who pre-date the OT had laws similar to the ten commandments?

The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use it predates the OT and contains laws like that of the OT. . .You can google it up. . . .Are you trying to say that people that live in other parts of the world do not know and have punishment for stealing, killing, disobedience to parents, lying etc?. . . 1000 years ago there was nothing like Christianity in Nigeria are you trying to tell me that our ancestors do not know that lying was wrong, stealing was wrong, killing was wrong, sleeping with another man's wife was wrong?. . . .I can't even believe you are making this argument. . .

3. u goofed on the moses story. moses ran away because he killed an EGYPTIAN. if he had killed an hebrew man. . . .then he had commited no crime. proof?

When the bible god was telling his chosen men to rape and kill other people that do not believe in him was that not the same thing?. . . Was thou shall not commit murder not part of the 10 commandements when moses and his cronies were killing others as the bible says?. . . .This goes to show you that the egyptians knew that killing was wrong even though the egyptians believed that killing of others was not wrong but killing of their own people was wrong something the jews themselves believe in. . the jews believe that it was OK to kill others but not OK to kill fellow jews. . . javascript

D why are u afraid of defining morality? what are u afraid of?

Afraid of what exactly?. . .I am just trying to show you that i can also play you silly games better than you. . .

which culture promotes "Do unto others as u want to be done to u" ? . . . . . . . .your principle is STOLEN from the bible. . . . .u are not humble enough to admit it.

My surrounding culture. . .I base my morality on the following. .

Whether my action harms another, Common sense,  . .  Understanding what hurts me personally which leads me to avoid causing others to feel the same thing.  . . .  Agreeing with other people's standards of morality and accepting them as good if it leads to the betterment of our survival as a whole,  . .  Critical thinking, weighing things up and Context,  . .

Confucius (551 B.C.E. – 479 B.C.E) said "don't do to others that which you don't want done to you" very long before jesus was born. . .

noetic2:

I agree to the bold part. This illustrates my point that what we inherently called morality today is a function of convictions. . . . . .these convictions are traceable to religion. . .in this context God. u just stated above that the jews lived a barbaric life until the commandments came. . . . . I agree.

Were the jews killing each other and sleeping with each others wives with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down? Do you have any evidence to show that the jews were living like barbarians(Kiling each other, stealing from each other, raping each other, lying to each other with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down). Where is your evidence for this ridiculous claim? Did the 10 commandments stop Moses and his foot soldiers from killing others, raping them, stealing from them and enslaving them?. . .

God's laws (convictions) has been a universal barometer for morality.

Which laws exactly. . .and where is your evidence for any god issuing out laws to people. . .Are allah's laws the same with yahweh's laws?. . .

noetic2:

I agree to the bold part. This illustrates my point that what we inherently called morality today is a function of convictions. . . . . .these convictions are traceable to religion. . .in this context God. u just stated above that the jews lived a barbaric life until the commandments came. . . . . I agree.

God's laws (convictions) has been a universal barometer for morality.

what are the contents of these early laws u claim precede the OT?

I am afraid I do not agree that "what we inherently called morality today is a function of convictions", noetic. In fact, if as you suggest laws come from God as depicted in the Bible, then it must have been a function of compulsion rather than conviction. Most people do not obey the laws (wherever they may have come from) becasue their heart tells them to. Most people obey laws becasue they fear the consequences of not obeying them. And most laws are passed with that in mind. A point in note is the very first Judaic commandment (at least as laid down in the book). It reads thus: "But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it." And please do note the consequences attached: "For in the day thou eatest, thou shalt die". Genesis 2:17

As to God's laws being a "universal barometer for morality", I suppose you work under the notion that God preceded laws, as is taught in Judaic religions. I am afraid that is not the case. Greeks had their own Gods who were not related to Yahweh in any way and they had their laws, as did the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Aztecans, Buddhists, Hindus, etc etc. And while they were all similar to Judaic laws, Judaic laws were not their origin, nor were the Jews the first to have them.

Please, if you really feel the need to learn, do read more book I would advise with no insult intended, and apologies too.

noetic2:
u just stated above that the jews lived a barbaric life until the commandments came. . . . . I agree.

I almost missed this! Thanks to you, mazaje

mazaje:
Were the jews killing each other and sleeping with each others wives with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down?

No noetic! I am not claiming that the Jews were living like barbarians before they were given the law, as some suppose. It is the nature of laws that they develop gradually over time. And in the time before the laws were codified in the manner in which we now have them, it is most obvious that the Jews had some form of them which they lived by. Going by the Bible, this would have to be so, in fact. Surely, the Jews were not killing one another when they lived under the Egyptians which they did before Moses and his going up a mountain! And even the Egyptians were not killing one another lawlessly during that time or they would not have been the nation they were.

Another example would be the Yorubas before the arrival of Yahweh, I reckon, though it could be argued that though knowledge of God Itself had not arrived, an inking of its laws could have been breathed unto us in Spirit form. I sure know that we were not barbaric, relatively saying, of course.

The fact of the matter is still that laws were the means of de-barbaricing people. The argument is that they did not begin with Moses going up some mountain, or with Yahweh, for that matter.

bawomolo:

are you saying buddhists had[b] no moral code[/b] considering they didn't believe in a supreme being?

and which God's laws. Zeus, jesus or vishna?

what does moral mean?

noetic2:

what does moral mean?

Is the knowledge or fear of God needed for morality?

mazaje:

People try things and select what is best for them and the survival of their societies as a whole. . .

It is important. . .even thepresent day jews that believe in yahweh and in the laws of moses do NOT practice what is written in the Torah. . .That shows that their morality has evolved from that of their ancient ancestors. . .

Where is your evidence of  any god giving moses the 10 commandments?   . . . .Humans wrote the 10 commandment no? If you have any evidence of yahweh giving moses the 10 commandments beside what is written in the bible then let me know. . .

u are being dishonest here. . . . . how do people experiment convictions? where do they get these convictions from?

The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use it predates the OT and contains laws like that of the OT. . .You can google it up. . . .Are you trying to say that people that live in other parts of the world do not know and have punishment for stealing, killing, disobedience to parents, lying etc?. . . 1000 years ago there was nothing like Christianity in Nigeria are you trying to tell me that our ancestors do not know that lying was wrong, stealing was wrong, killing was wrong, sleeping with another man's wife was wrong?. . . .I can't even believe you are making this argument. . .

Genesis 20 records God appearing to a different king (who feared God) about the dangers of taking Abraham's wife.
The Edomites . . . . .who are descendants of Esau. . . .who have no inheritance with the israelites are also a God fearing people who serve the Lord. . . .they like other groups of people have their own moral codes. . . .where do these morals come from? they predate the 10 commandments, . but they all come from convictions. . . . GOD.

When the bible god was telling his chosen men to rape and kill other people that do not believe in him was that not the same thing?. . . Was thou shall not commit murder not part of the 10 commandements when moses and his cronies were killing others as the bible says?. . . .This goes to show you that the egyptians knew that killing was wrong even though the egyptians believed that killing of others was not wrong but killing of their own people was wrong something the jews themselves believe in. . the jews believe that it was OK to kill others but not OK to kill fellow jews. . . javascript

Afraid of what exactly?. . .I am just trying to show you that i can also play you silly games better than you. . .

u are afraid that the inconsistencies of ur postulations would be revealed. . . .take the bold step and define morality.

My surrounding culture. . .I base my morality on the following. .

Whether my action harms another, Common sense,  . .  Understanding what hurts me personally which leads me to avoid causing others to feel the same thing.  . . .  Agreeing with other people's standards of morality and accepting them as good if it leads to the betterment of our survival as a whole,  . .  Critical thinking, weighing things up and Context,  . .

Confucius (551 B.C.E. – 479 B.C.E) said "don't do to others that which you don't want done to you" very long before jesus was born. . .

This is a LIE and a FRAUD.

1. The manifestation of Jesus does NOT pre-date the OT commandments.

2. Confucious stole his theory from the CONVICTIONS. . . . . .you are yet to establish another human means of obtaining deeper convictions other than religion.

3. you were formerly a christian. , .all u did was to edit the gospel and take up what u like out of it. . . . . ur guiding principle is STOLEN from christianity.

mazaje:

Were the jews killing each other and sleeping with each others wives with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down? Do you have any evidence to show that the jews were living like barbarians(Kiling each other, stealing from each other, raping each other, lying to each other with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down). Where is your evidence for this ridiculous claim? Did the 10 commandments stop Moses and his foot soldiers from killing others, raping them, stealing from them and enslaving them?. . .

Which laws exactly. . .and where is your evidence for any god issuing out laws to people. . .Are allah's laws the same with yahweh's laws?. . .

what EXACTLY are u talking about?

u have failed to define "sin" or "morals" . . . .sin is the transgression of the law.
So once there is no law. . . .there is subsequently no sin. There is no reason to believe that the israelites had a moral code that pre-dates the OT commandments.
if u believe there was. . .what stops u from producing it?

bawomolo:

Is the knowledge or fear of God needed for morality?

why not start by defining morality. . .then we can deduce if the fear of God is required to obtain it?

buda atum:

I am afraid I do not agree that "what we inherently called morality today is a function of convictions", noetic. In fact, if as you suggest laws come from God as depicted in the Bible, then it must have been a function of compulsion rather than conviction. Most people do not obey the laws (wherever they may have come from) becasue their heart tells them to. Most people obey laws becasue they fear the consequences of not obeying them. And most laws are passed with that in mind. A point in note is the very first Judaic commandment (at least as laid down in the book). It reads thus: "But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it." And please do note the consequences attached: "For in the day thou eatest, thou shalt die". Genesis 2:17

1. It is irrelevant whether people obey these commandments or not. The issue is the proclamation of the laws in the first place. is there any law that is not transgressed?
It is also irrelevant whether ur deduction reflects that the law was a product of compulsion or conviction. . . . . , .but they were given and abided by by choice.

2. do not mix advice (words of wisdom) to commandments. . . . . the Genesis 2 instruction about the tree of life was NOT a commandment but a word of wisdom . . .an advice.

As to God's laws being a "universal barometer for morality", I suppose you work under the notion that God preceded laws, as is taught in Judaic religions. I am afraid that is not the case. Greeks had their own Gods who were not related to Yahweh in any way and they had their laws, as did the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Aztecans, Buddhists, Hindus, etc etc. And while they were all similar to Judaic laws, Judaic laws were not their origin, nor were the Jews the first to have them.

Please, if you really feel the need to learn, do read more book I would advise with no insult intended, and apologies too.

God definitely preceded the laws. . . . .do u have any reason to believe otherwise?

noetic2:

u are being dishonest here. . . . . how do people experiment convictions? where do they get these convictions from?

Through trials and error. . 200 years ago some people in Nigeria thought that it was OK to kill their twin babies but they were convinced by others to stop it. . .Jews that believe in the laws of the old testament today do NOT follow and abide by most of what it says because they have been convinced that those laws are not good for the betterment of their society as a whole. . .They can't go around practicing racism of killing their disobedient children. . .Slavery was abolished in most parts of the world because people were convinced that it wasn't for the good of every body. . .integration is now accepted amongst people of different race because they know its for the betterment of the society as a whole. .

Genesis 20 records God appearing to a different king (who feared God) about the dangers of taking Abraham's wife.
The Edomites . . . . .who are descendants of Esau. . . .who have no inheritance with the israelites are also a God fearing people who serve the Lord. . . .they like other groups of people have their own moral codes. . . .where do these morals come from? they predate the 10 commandments, . but they all come from convictions. . . . GOD.

Where is your evidence of god giving people morals? You have no evidence of god giving any body morals. . .why do parents bother to teach their children the difference between right and wrong if any thing as go given morals exist? Why not let their god given morals teach them the difference between right and wrong? Why does right and wrong differ from society to society and from religion to religion? Where is your evidence to show that god gave people rules to follow, you have no evidence for this all you have are people writing things down and ascribing them to their various gods. . . You dishonestly refused to answer my question. . .1000 years ago there was nothing like Christianity in Nigeria are you trying to tell me that our ancestors do not know that lying was wrong, stealing was wrong, killing was wrong, sleeping with another man's wife was wrong?

u are afraid that the inconsistencies of your postulations would be revealed. . . .take the bold step and define morality.

Morality means conformity to the rules of right conduct. . .Now its up to your to provide evidence to show how your god makes people to conform to the rules of right conduct. . .
This is a LIE and a FRAUD.

1. The manifestation of Jesus does NOT pre-date the OT commandments.

2. Confucious stole his theory from the CONVICTIONS. . . . . .you are yet to establish another human means of obtaining deeper convictions other than religion.

Conviction means a fixed or firm belief. . . so how did Confucious steal his theory from a fixed or firm belief? Where is your evidence for this . . .Do you know that various religions have their various morals standards that are sometimes mutually exclusive to each other?. . . .The difference of different religious beliefs with each with their different moral standard shows that morality comes as a result of experimentation. . .If their is anything as god given morality all men will share the same moral standard and abide by the same moral rule but that is not the case. . .people learn or adopt their moral standard from others while most learn their through experimentation. . .accepting what will lead to the better survival of the society as a whole and discarding what will lead to the destruction of the society. . . .

3. you were formerly a christian. , .all u did was to edit the gospel and take up what u like out of it. . . . . your guiding principle is STOLEN from christianity.

Are christians the ONLY moral people in the world you are now sounding like a little child. . .I have been to Thailand and I have seen people(Adults who are over 40) who have never heard the name Jesus in their lives but they are moral people and they all know that it is good to do unto your self as you will like others to do unto you. . .They do NOT know what the gospels are they have NEVER heard the name jesus in their entire lives but they know that stealing, lying, murder, rape and sleeping with another man's wife is wrong. . .If morality comes from god then there should be some evidence to show that christians are more moral than non christians but so far there is NONE. . .Christians are NOT more moral than non christains. . . .

@c2 wetin u dey look for in religion lol

noetic2:

what EXACTLY are u talking about?

u have failed to define "sin" or "morals" . . . .sin is the transgression of the law.
So once there is no law. . . .there is subsequently no sin. There is no reason to believe that the israelites had a moral code that pre-dates the OT commandments.
if u believe there was. . .what stops u from producing it?

You are now sounding like a broken record and you are not making any sense. . .the OT is the history of the jews so how can they have any moral code that predates their history

God definitely preceded the laws. . . . .do u have any reason to believe otherwise?

Any evidence for this claims. . .the torah is not the oldest religious scripture on earth hope you know?. . . .

@ poster
are u seriously asking this question?

are u trying to bring up an arguement whether there can be morality without ur fable god?

check out beemp3.com. type in the search boz dan barker morality without god.

mazaje:

You are now sounding like a broken record and you are not making any sense. . .the OT is the history of the jews so how can they have any moral code that predates their history

Any evidence for this claims. . .the torah is not the oldest religious scripture on earth hope you know?. . . .

whats this all about?

why not start by defining morality. . .then we can deduce if the fear of God is required to obtain it?

lets say morality is doing what's right from wrong. do we need God to make such decisions?

bawomolo:

lets say morality is doing what's right from wrong. do we need God to make such decisions?

how do we determine whats "right" if not from convictions? how do convictions exist if not from religion/conscience? whats religion/conscience without God?

noetic2:
God definitely preceded the laws. . . . .do u have any reason to believe otherwise?

You must have missed what I had to say in a previous post on another thread about beliefs, noetic. It is the only reason you would ask me such a question. For your information, I do not do beliefs, at least as far as religious beliefs are concerned. Beliefs are for lazy people who would not bother to do as the scriptures say they should do, "Seek, so that one can find". I either know a thing or do not know a thing, and when I do not know, I seek to find out and not bury my head in one single book as some are wont to do! Or did not Christ say that "One shall live on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"? You might want to be aware that the worshipping of a book is a contravention of the first commandment! And there is no point arguing who or where it came from if I do not at the least attempt to follow, or obey it. Christ did rant and rave against the type who do as such, after all! And remember, they killed him for it!

The evidence, as I keep informing you, gives dates for laws that existed before the God of the Jews existed. It also lists people who had those same laws but never knew the Jewish God. The facts clearly show that even these Jews learnt them from others, but you refuse to consider them! People have given you this information in this thread as well, but you would not even go to the sources and check for yourself, as if the truth does not set one free from not knowing!

You might wish to see what I think of this type of thought process in the thread How Did Life Really Start?. Post 11, to be exact. Do know that I understand how difficult it is for "believers to see (born again", is how Christ put it). A needle and a camel, might bring it to mind.

so whats ur theory? do the laws precede God?

noetic2:

how do we determine whats "right" if not from convictions? how do convictions exist if not from religion/conscience? whats religion/conscience without God?

I have posted a couple of definitions of the word "Conviction" below. I am of course wondering in which ysense you mean it. Might it be that "one only knows what is right and wrong when one is told"? If so, I would ask why I should obey laws that I do not know about! I would also point out that I can learn what is right and wrong from experience as I think I stated when I began my posting in this thread. I don't need God to tell me not to poke my finger in your eye, is what I am saying.

Anyway, and for clarification:
con·vic·tion (kn-vkshn) n.
1. Law
a. The judgment of a jury or judge that a person is guilty of a crime as charged.
b. The state of being found or proved guilty: evidence that led to the suspect's conviction.
2. a. The act or process of convincing.
b. The state of being convinced.

conviction  kun'vik-shun Noun
1.An unshakable belief in something without need for proof or evidence - strong belief, article of faith

2.(criminal law) a final judgment of guilty in a criminal case and the punishment that is imposed
"the conviction came as no surprise"; "the judgment of conviction came as no surprise"

noetic2:

so whats your theory? do the laws precede God?

It is not a theory, noetic, it is a fact! And even the Bible confirms this! Or does not the punishment of Cain imply that there must have been a law forbidding the killing of another human being before Moses went up the mountain to bring down the Ten Commandments? Also, I would refer you back to Moses' transgression whilst in Egypt where they did not even worship the Jewish God! Did he not have to run away from the Egyptians for killing someone? What law do you think he would have been punished under?

This is incredible. . . .so who or what else preceded God?

sorry!

another repost!

repost!

noetic2:
This is incredible. . . .so who or what else preceded God?

Now you are entering the realm of belief my dear noetic, and I fear that we might begin to move so far apart that conversation becomes impossible. Do note that as a believer, you can not see things as I do. You perhaps might understand that I may have the same problem too.

The issue at hand is the Biblical Ten Commandments, which we are told were not in existence before they were given to Moses when he went up the mountain to get them. A believer’s argument could be that God breathed them into First Human in the beginning; it after all would have been part of the essence of God’s breathe. But we are not told anything of the sort. But I do not expect you to accept that! It will be as if I were asking you to doubt what you have already accepted to be true. And I doubt you could do that. After all, "y shld I doubt?", right?

One thing I would like you to consider however is that there were other people in existence before God is claimed to have created the world and human beings. Those who know how the Bible itself came about would tell you that even the Biblical creation myth was borrowed from elsewhere to give the people who eventually called themselves Jews an identity. Others too have their creation myths which no one could argue with them to be untrue. It’s the nature of beliefs to accept a thing as so without considering the evidence. But I always ask, “why believe when one can know?” Or is that not what Jesus Christ is said to have died for? It is why knowledgeable Christians would say, “Jesus is Lord”, and is why I will agree with them. Or have you never wondered why he took the disciples away from the mob and told them things he never told the masses?

Please get a book on how laws came about. For now, these might be of help History of law. Read what it says about Law development Egypt, and Greek history of law. Pay particular attention to the History of British Law. Part of it reads as follows:

But the Anglo-Saxons, with all their savagery, had great possibilities in them. "Non Angli, sed Angeli, si modo Christiani" - "not Angles, but Angels would they be, if they were only Christians" - said Pope Gregory I, of some of them who had been brought to Rome; and forthwith he sent Saint Augustine and some zealous companions in A.D. 596, to convert the people to Christianity, which after many difficulties they succeeded in accomplishing.

It shows that others had laws long before they were introduced to the Jews by their God.

Some creation myths:
An Egyptian Creation Myth The sake is not incidental!
[url=http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_16.html]Greek Creation Myth[/url]
[url=http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_17.html]Japanese Creation Myth[/url]
[url=http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_14.html]African Bushmen Creation Myth[/url]
Yoruba Creation Myth
Roman Creation Myth

Do note that they are only myths. One believes them out of choice.

Yes o @ Kunbee I dey waka pass religion every blue moon.

Some of the asinine blathering tripe I've read in several posts sadly killed my interest in the damn topic.

U guys r realy confusing urself with ethical jagons.What do u think jesus was here 4?jesus came 2 do 3 things.1)link d old testament wit d new testament. 2)abolish laws nd give grace and 3)die 4 ur sins. why r u stil talking abt d ten commandment when christ has abolished it nd gave us d 2 great commandment(matt22:32-40).concerning d origin of d bible,d bible was writ ten by d inspiration of God.even d writers dont even comprehend wat dey ve written.About d origin of God,it is quite dis-speakable 2 try 2 knw aw God came abt.y nt try 2 get d origination of d sun,moon,stars,and earth b4 u try 2 unruvel d mystery bhind God.read john1;1

I didn't intend to post this so many times. It didn't show up and I thought it hadn't posted.