According to Genesis 4:13-14, shortly after cain killed his brother Abel, “Cain said to the LORD,
‘My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, AND WHOEVER FINDS ME WILL KILL ME’.

* Whom exactly was Cain afraid of?

The only people the book of Genesis had mentioned to this point are Adam and Eve (Cain’s parents) and Abel (who was now dead).

*Who would possibly be a threat to Cain?

0ubenji:

Hmmn..unfortunately, thrz no citation to buttress urs..but that doesn't give u room to disprove mine..lemme help u..sinx u said u cudnt get a reference From the search..
U were looking for a text that specifically calls Abel the 2nd born..lolz...u seem to 4get no text specifically calls Cain the Firstborn either..but somehow, we both, unconsciously agree that he is the 1st born..for 2 reasons..
1. The bible recorded his birth first, but dint specifically state him contextually as the 1st born. Yet u agree he is..so, goin by ur theory on Abel, A daughter might have been born b4 cain also(sinx no text specifically mentions him as the Firstborn.
2. We followed the events of their birth in progression(with common sense) that he was mentioned 1st as bein birthed, wherein we av to take as him bein the 1st, sinx no other text contradicted this assumption.
----------------
Genesis 4 vs 1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare
Cain(1stborn), and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
2. And she AGAIN bare his brother Abel(i2nd born). And Abel was a
keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
---------------------------------
It dint say " and she again bare a second son or second male child"
Lemme put it in layman terms..
Mrs. Maxwell conceived and bore Malvis(1st born), and again bore his brother, Ben(this is a direct implication that I'm the 2nd born nd I apun to be male, which is why "brother" was used)..so, if the writer wants to imply Abel as the 2nd son and not 2nd born, he/she would av made a clause somwhr else to indicate such. This clause(in citation or direct implication) is what I asked of u dat u av refused to present.
This is an argument of the contextual citation OR direct implication of a statement...as evidence that Abel was/wasn't the 2nd born.
I'm not interested in what you think shud be(it doesn't improve the quality of ur perspective), I'm concerned with what is, which is implied by the writer in the composition of his/her writing. I made do with what I av from my presentation of citations and references; not what I fink shud be.
Mornin..aw's ur nite?

You know it's a controversy...That 'Creation Story' actually destroys the very essence of why people MUST be Christians, as the Story is the Origin of sin, and why people will have to use Christ to come 'clean'. But the writers and compilers of the Bible left a loop-hole while laying the foundation of Christianity at: "Who did Cain marry"?

Christian will defend and invent all excuses (for the Bible) in a bid to secure their own sanity in 'believing' the Bible when they should be going for truth. Corner them with quoted Biblical texts as in the ordinal rendition of the creation story and the events and they will "infer"...If you the arguant now infer, they will say "the Bible says DO NOT ADD NO SUBSTRACT..."

Clearly, that Genesis creation story was an effort by the Jews to 'give something' to the minds of its people. Of course one could see that SOME of the stories where littered with inadequacies, ignorance and sometimes sheer crookedness: If indeed it was "In the BEGINNING, God Created HEAVEN AND EARTHN" WHERE did he (God) Lived..."IN THE BEGINNING".

A Christian who thinks the bible or any WRITTEN text about God is Complete is foolish indeed, he will suffer hurt to his feelings and the legitimacy and security of his believes as in the creation Story. Jesus said something in the lines of " Religion is made for man, not Man made for religion". This means he must learn to be flexible to change or truth or enter a state of spiritual crystalises.

Before Adam, there had been other civilizations and AGES which existed spaning millions of years. Most of these ages gets wiped out in disasters as a consequence of their evils, and new ones starts...

He was really talking about the future, he sure knows the story will be told and bear in mind that people do live long then.
Methuselah lived for 969yrs. Gen 5:27
Adam himself lived for 930yrs Gen 5:5.
Take into consideration the long life span, so, those to be born will meet him alive, and the story about what he did will be told.

tempem:
He was really talking about the future, he sure knows the story will be told and bear in mind that people do live long then.
Methuselah lived for 969yrs. Gen 5:27
Adam himself lived for 930yrs Gen 5:5.
Take into consideration the long life span, so, those to be born will meet him alive, and the story about what he did will be told.

Bro..I reasoned this too but..

Take note of the phrase "whoever finds me"..taking this contextually(as should be) means, this unmentioned person(s) is/are probably searching for him as at that time..and he's supposedly into hiding from this/these person(s) , to avoid being killed..

So his fright is not a futuristic issue as u put it in the view of descendants.
The only ppl to left to find and kill him in this sense..are his parents...which is quite unimaginable..

0ubenji:

Bro..I reasoned this too but..

Take note of the phrase "whoever finds me"..taking this contextually(as should be) means, this unmentioned person(s) is/are probably searching for him as at that time..and he's supposedly into hiding from this/these person(s) , to avoid being killed..

So his fright is not a futuristic issue as u put it in the view of descendants.
The only ppl to left to find and kill him in this sense..are his parents...which is quite unimaginable..

Okay..... Keep searching, then.

0ubenji:
According to Genesis 4:13-14, shortly after cain killed his
brother Abel, “Cain said to the LORD,

‘My punishment is
more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the
land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a
restless wanderer on the earth, AND WHOEVER FINDS ME WILL KILL ME’.


* Whom exactly was Cain afraid of?


The only people
the book of Genesis had mentioned to this point are Adam
and Eve (Cain’s parents) and Abel (who was now dead).


*Who
would possibly be a threat to Cain?

Nice question! There were other descendants of Adam and Eve. That statement credited to Cain indeed the whole scenario came much later after the curse was pronounced.(The Cain there was a defiant man).

And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Genesis 4:23,24

Cain was still alive when Lamech said this.

Scholar8200:

Nice question! There were other descendants of Adam and Eve. That statement credited to Cain indeed the whole scenario came much later after the curse was pronounced.(The Cain there was a defiant man).

And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Genesis 4:23,24

Cain was still alive when Lamech said this.

Hmmn...I get 2 msgs from ur comment..but I don't wanna gv a reply that might derail the matter at hand..so I'd rather hold that thought for now..
How does lamech come in here plz..kindly clarify..
Coz lamech himself was a murderer, to suffer the same fate as cain's whereby God ensures their staying alive to suffer a barren life. By dat time, for some strange reason, God punishment for murder Wasn't death but to stay alive and experience a sort of fruitless life. So he marks them for compulsory existence to suffer the consequence of deeds, hence, any1 who kiils them is marked for castigation in greater folds.
This was the essence of the verses u emboldened above in the case of lamech who knows the consequences of the murder he committed and is the one speaking to his wives on his fate.

0ubenji:
According to Genesis 4:13-14, shortly after cain killed his
brother Abel, “Cain said to the LORD,

‘My punishment is
more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the
land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a
restless wanderer on the earth, AND WHOEVER FINDS ME WILL KILL ME’.


* Whom exactly was Cain afraid of?


The only people
the book of Genesis had mentioned to this point are Adam
and Eve (Cain’s parents) and Abel (who was now dead).


*Who
would possibly be a threat to Cain?

The bible did not say adam had only 2 children, cain was the first born but abel was NOT the second born , he was the second son, certainly their are children between cain and abel. Okay, after the death of abel , seth was born, seth was a replacement to Abel. So, who was Cain afraid of? Cain was afraid of his own brothers, sisters, nephews, and nieces, who were already born and would be capable of seeking revenge. The fact that Cain had a wife (Genesis 4:17) is a further evidence that Adam and Eve had other children after Cain and Abel, but before Seth.

Furthermore, what I believe is that the scriptural focus is clearly ONLY on the seeding of Christ and with mentions of others who may have play an important role, the rest is of no use, for example, who was methusalah wife ? The oldest man, surly we will like to know the age of his wife...who was the wife of cain ? All this people play NO role.

0ubenji:

Hmmn...I get 2 msgs from ur comment..but I don't wanna gv a reply that might derail the matter at hand..so I'd rather hold that thought for now..
How does lamech come in here plz..kindly clarify..
Coz lamech himself was a murderer, to suffer the same fate as cain's whereby God ensures their staying alive to suffer a barren life. By dat time, for some strange reason, God punishment for murder Wasn't death but to stay alive and experience a sort of fruitless life. So he marks them for compulsory existence to suffer the consequence of deeds, hence, any1 who kiils them is marked for castigation in greater folds.
This was the essence of the verses u emboldened above in the case of lamech who knows the consequences of the murder he committed and is the one speaking to his wives on his fate.

As it concerns the topic of the thread, the speech of Lamech here shows there were others around when Cain made that complaint quoted by the op!




As regards punishment for murder being death, that came later in Genesis 9:5,6!

And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Scholar8200:
As it concerns the topic of the thread, the speech of Lamech here shows there were others around when Cain made that complaint quoted by the op!

Kindly note that cain was a bachelor when the curse was placed upon him for the murder of his brother, Abel. There was no other person around(according to the bible) aside his parents..
Any descendant of Adam dint come until cain married a wife and bore children(where this strange lady came from is a story for anoda day).
Lamech aint cain's sibling, as this is the only condition by which he would have been around as at when cain was cursed. After the curse incident was when cain went to get settled down somewhere else and probably get married thereafter.

----------------
Genesis 4: 16

16. Then Cain went out from the presence of the
LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

--------------------------------
Lamech is a 5th generation descendant of Cain.

------------------------

Genesis 4: 17-18

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare
Enoch(1st generation): and he builded a city, and called the name of the city,
after the name of his son, Enoch.



18 And unto Enoch was born Irad(2nd generation): and Irad begat Mehujael(3rd generation):
and Mehujael begat Methusael(4th generation): and Methusael begat
Lamech(5th generation).

------------------

As at the time Lamech was born, Abel was long gone.

Now, according to genesis, as at the time of lamech, Adam and Eve had no other child aside Cain. Not until Genesis 4: 25 wherein Seth was conceived and it was emphasized therein that the arrival of seth soothed their hurt over Abel's death which is a strong indication that no other child had come until seth.

---------------

Genesis 4: 25

25 And Adam knew his wife AGAIN; and she bare a son, and
called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me
ANOTHER SEED INSTEAD OF ABEL, whom Cain slew.

---------------------

The child that came after abel's death was seth, none other, which is why the importance of his birth was well reiterated in verse 25 above. Eve actually gave him that name.
The first time Adam had carnal knowledge of Eve was in Genesis 4: 1, the second time was in Genesis 4: 2, while the 3rd time was in Genesis 4: 25

Lamech was not present when cain was cursed..tnx

Cc: malvisguy212

malvisguy212:
The bible did not say adam had only 2 children, cain was the first born but abel was NOT the second born , he was the second son, certainly their are children between cain and abel. Okay, after the death of abel , seth was born, seth was a replacement to Abel. So, who was Cain afraid of? Cain was afraid of his own brothers, sisters, nephews, and nieces, who were already born and would be capable of seeking revenge. The fact that Cain had a wife (Genesis 4:17) is a further evidence that Adam and Eve had other children after Cain and Abel, but before Seth.

Furthermore, what I believe is that the scriptural focus is clearly ONLY on the seeding of Christ and with mentions of others who may have play an important role, the rest is of no use, for example, who was methusalah wife ? The oldest man, surly we will like to know the age of his wife...who was the wife of cain ? All this people play NO role.

You don't invent people who play no roles. Even if they would be invented, there shud be evidential trails on how they came to the picture. You mentioned some figures, strangely, no1(not even u) cud give a plausible explanation for where dey came from..rather, u gave hypothetical views to answer these questions on the probability of being descendants. This issues raises more curiosity.
U say Abel was the second son and not the. 2nd born, the bible dint state anywhere that it gave preference to the mention of Abel's name because it was a SON...nah..
The bible simply put that, Cain's brother was conceived, who apund to be Abel. Not "another SON was concieved".
Even in cain's case, it was the same. Kindly abate that perception which has to do with the Sex of the children being Male that Made the bible deem them worthy of mention.

0ubenji:

Kindly note that cain was a bachelor when the curse was placed upon him for the murder of his brother, Abel. There was no other person around(according to the bible) aside his parents..

There were others not mentioned at the time of the murder. See Genesis 4:17. It was practice to mention only the name of relevant kids see Genesis 5:10 you will see sons and daughters whose names are not mentioned.

Any descendant of Adam dint come until cain married a wife and bore children(where this strange lady came from is a story for anoda day).

Do you know Adam had another son called Seth and that he was born when Adam was 130years old? That debunks the highlighted besides, read Genesis 5 and see that many "sons and daughters'' were not mentioned by name!

Lamech aint cain's sibling, as this is the only condition by which he would have been around as at when cain was cursed. After the curse incident was when cain went to get settled down somewhere else and probably get married thereafter.

----------------
Genesis 4: 16

16. Then Cain went out from the presence of the
LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

--------------------------------
Lamech is a 5th generation descendant of Cain.

Note the length of years they lived then( Adam died 930yrs etc)! Besides, that Eve gave birth to Seth after Abel's death tells you Cain was still young meaning he was a young father!
------------------------

Genesis 4: 17-18

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare
Enoch(1st generation): and he builded a city, and called the name of the city,
after the name of his son, Enoch.



18 And unto Enoch was born Irad(2nd generation): and Irad begat Mehujael(3rd generation):
and Mehujael begat Methusael(4th generation): and Methusael begat
Lamech(5th generation).

Just as Adam must have witnessed 5th or more generations as men.

Genesis 5:5
Adam gave birth to Seth (at age 130 Gen 5:3)
v6 Seth lived a hundred and gave birth to Enos
v7 Enos lived 90 and gave birth to cainan
v12 Cainan lived 70 and gave birth to Mahalalel
v15 Mahalalel lived 65 and gave birth to Jared
v18 Jared lived 162 and gave birth to Enoch

Now notice that all these went on and Adam saw them. Since Adam died 930 add up the years and see that after Seth, Adam lived 800 years meaning he saw Enoch etc not as babies but full grown men! How much more Cain?


------------------

As at the time Lamech was born, Abel was long gone.

Now, according to genesis, as at the time of lamech, Adam and Eve had no other child aside Cain. Not until Genesis 4: 25 wherein Seth was conceived and it was emphasized therein that the arrival of seth soothed their hurt over Abel's death which is a strong indication that no other child had come until seth.

Rather which suggests that Seth was born while the death of Abel was still very recent, fresh in their minds!
---------------

Genesis 4: 25

25 And Adam knew his wife AGAIN; and she bare a son, and
called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me
ANOTHER SEED INSTEAD OF ABEL, whom Cain slew.

---------------------

The child that came after abel's death was seth, none other, which is why the importance of his birth was well reiterated in verse 25 above. Eve actually gave him that name.
The first time Adam had carnal knowledge of Eve was in Genesis 4: 1, the second time was in Genesis 4: 2, while the 3rd time was in Genesis 4: 25

Lamech was not present when cain was cursed..tnx

Cc: malvisguy212

Refer to the analysis above on Adam's age when Seth was born 130 and when he died 930 and realise that , if we wont be anachronistic, Adam, Cain where fully alive and saw more than 5th generations not as boys but also as men!!!

Scholar8200:
There were others not mentioned at the time of the murder. See Genesis 4:17. It was practice to mention only the name of relevant kids see Genesis 5:10 you will see sons and daughters whose names are not mentioned.


Do you know Adam had another son called Seth and that he was born when Adam was 130years old? That debunks the highlighted besides, read Genesis 5 and see that many "sons and daughters'' were not mentioned by name!



Note the length of years they lived then( Adam died 930yrs etc)! Besides, that Eve gave birth to Seth after Abel's death tells you Cain was still young meaning he was a young father!
------------------------
Just as Adam must have witnessed 5th or more generations as men.

Genesis 5:5
Adam gave birth to Seth (at age 130 Gen 5:3)
v6 Seth lived a hundred and gave birth to Enos
v7 Enos lived 90 and gave birth to cainan
v12 Cainan lived 70 and gave birth to Mahalalel
v15 Mahalalel lived 65 and gave birth to Jared
v18 Jared lived 162 and gave birth to Enoch

Now notice that all these went on and Adam saw them. Since Adam died 930 add up the years and see that after Seth, Adam lived 800 years meaning he saw Enoch etc not as babies but full grown men! How much more Cain?


------------------
Rather which suggests that Seth was born while the death of Abel was still very recent, fresh in their minds!
---------------

Refer to the analysis above on Adam's age when Seth was born 130 and when he died 930 and realise that , if we wont be anachronistic, Adam, Cain where fully alive and saw more than 5th generations not as boys but also as men!!!

The length of time from when abel was killed to the time after the 5th generation of cain's descendants is not a definition of FRESH...these are years..not days
I alredi acknowledged the birth of seth in my prior comments..so that's a drawback.
Kindly note that we're stil goin in circles...there's stil no evidence from our citations and references in this debate that someone worthy to be a threat to cain was in existence as at when he made the "whoever finds me will kill me" statement(as the bible puts it) In the original post of this thread..

0ubenji:

You don't invent people who play no roles. Even if they would be invented, there shud be evidential trails on how they came to the picture. You mentioned some figures, strangely, no1(not even u) cud give a plausible explanation for where dey came from..rather, u gave hypothetical views to answer these questions on the probability of being descendants. This issues raises more curiosity.
U say Abel was the second son and not the. 2nd born, the bible dint state anywhere that it gave preference to the mention of Abel's name because it was a SON...nah..
The bible simply put that, Cain's brother was conceived, who apund to be Abel. Not "another SON was concieved".
Even in cain's case, it was the same. Kindly abate that perception which has to do with the Sex of the children being Male that Made the bible deem them worthy of mention.

The bible made it clear, if everything were to be written, the book cannot contain it. The old and new testament is All about the messiah, the genealogy of christ, abel was among the genealogy after he was kill, seth replace him. Now, go and read the story one more time, the bible did not call abel the second born, if you insist, provide evidence from the scripture ? The text say Abel was the second son, which mean there are children before Abel ( this is not my opinion, this is what the bible imply)

Let me ask you a question, why will cain make the statement "AND WHOEVER FINDS
ME WILL KILL ME "? This only make sense when his brothers and sister are upset that cain had kill their brother.

malvisguy212:
The bible made it clear, if everything were to be written, the book cannot contain it. The old and new testament is All about the messiah, the genealogy of christ, abel was among the genealogy after he was kill, seth replace him. Now, go and read the story one more time, the bible did not call abel the second born, if you insist, provide evidence from the scripture ? The text say Abel was the second son, which mean there are children before Abel ( this is not my opinion, this is what the bible imply)

Let me ask you a question, why will cain make the statement "AND WHOEVER FINDS
ME WILL KILL ME "? This only make sense when his brothers and sister are upset that cain had kill their brother.

Lolz..the only prob here is that you're trying to make sense for the person who wrote that Genesis(claiming it was moses)..More like u are afraid to question indiscrepancies and reason...coz it's the bible...??...bro, I'm a xtian too but a thinking one.

U said "This only make sense when his brothers and sister are upset that cain had kill their brother"...but what if the writer actually made unintended errors(as it semantically appears) that there are no brothers and sisters(as u tried to invent via provisional reason) involved anywhere..??
Calling a spade a spade aint that hard u knw...?
I actually love ur reasoning pattern..despite the fact that it refuses to satisfy the dying answers this topic TRUTHFULLY needs.
I av a more controversial thread to open tomoro, I'll mention u thr..


P.S: I don't argue to be right, but to learn and see angles to an issue I might av missed

0ubenji:

Lolz..the only prob here is that you're trying to make sense for the person who wrote that Genesis(claiming it was moses)..More like u are afraid to question indiscrepancies and reason...coz it's the bible...??...bro, I'm a xtian too but a thinking one.

U said "This only make sense when his brothers and sister are upset that cain had kill their brother"...but what if the writer actually made unintended errors(as it semantically appears) that there are no brothers and sisters(as u tried to invent via provisional reason) involved anywhere..??
Calling a spade a spade aint that hard u knw...?
I actually love ur reasoning pattern..despite the fact that it refuses to satisfy the dying answers this topic TRUTHFULLY needs.
I av a more controversial thread to open tomoro, I'll mention u thr..


P.S: I don't argue to be right, but to learn and see angles to an issue I might av missed

I see, you don't understand my point. Who out their know what cain did ? And why will they kill him ? That is why I say the statement only make sense if cain had brothers and sisters. Saying cain and Abel were not the only sons of Adam is not my opinion, that's what the bible imply. If I call you the second son, does it mean you are the second born ?

malvisguy212:
I see, you don't understand my point. Who out their know what cain did ? And why will they kill him ? That is why I say the statement only make sense if cain had brothers and sisters. Saying cain and Abel were not the only sons of Adam is not my opinion, that's what the bible imply. If I call you the second son, does it mean you are the second born ?

I get ur point, u're only going around in circles while I sit here waitin for u to cite a biblical reference that succinctly implies Abel as not being the second born..
Therein, the debates bcums more interesting whereby I try disprove the semantics of whateva citation u present..that way, we both learn from new angles to dis..
I'd like to drop this debate with u, if we wanna proceed into illogically hypothetical perspectives of this issue. It would appear to defeat reason rather than improve it.

0ubenji:

I get ur point, u're only going around in circles while I sit here waitin for u to cite a biblical reference that succinctly implies Abel as not being the second born..
Therein, the debates bcums more interesting whereby I try disprove the semantics of whateva citation u present..that way, we both learn from new angles to dis..
I'd like to drop this debate with u, if we wanna proceed into illogically hypothetical perspectives of this issue. It would appear to defeat reason rather than improve it.

I check the others bible translation and no text specifically call abel the second born. Its okay to disagree with me. Thank you. Looking forward to your next topic.

Gen 1 :27...so God created man in his own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female, He created them
Gen 1:28....Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it .....

Adam's woman (Eve) didn't appear until Gen 2: 20-25. We can then infer that God created more people (male and female) alongside Adam.

Gen 1 :27...so God created man in his own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female, He created them
Gen 1:28....Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it .....

Adam's woman (Eve) didn't appear until Gen 2: 20-25. We can then infer that God created more people (male and female) alongside Adam

malvisguy212:
I check the others bible translation and no text specifically call abel the second born. Its okay to disagree with me. Thank you. Looking forward to your next topic.

Hmmn..unfortunately, thrz no citation to buttress urs..but that doesn't give u room to disprove mine..lemme help u..sinx u said u cudnt get a reference From the search..
U were looking for a text that specifically calls Abel the 2nd born..lolz...u seem to 4get no text specifically calls Cain the Firstborn either..but somehow, we both, unconsciously agree that he is the 1st born..for 2 reasons..
1. The bible recorded his birth first, but dint specifically state him contextually as the 1st born. Yet u agree he is..so, goin by ur theory on Abel, A daughter might have been born b4 cain also(sinx no text specifically mentions him as the Firstborn.
2. We followed the events of their birth in progression(with common sense) that he was mentioned 1st as bein birthed, wherein we av to take as him bein the 1st, sinx no other text contradicted this assumption.

----------------

Genesis 4 vs 1-2 King James Version (KJV)

1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare
Cain(1stborn), and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
2. And she AGAIN bare his brother Abel(i2nd born). And Abel was a
keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

---------------------------------

It dint say " and she again bare a second son or second male child"
Lemme put it in layman terms..
Mrs. Maxwell conceived and bore Malvis(1st born), and again bore his brother, Ben(this is a direct implication that I'm the 2nd born nd I apun to be male, which is why "brother" was used)..so, if the writer wants to imply Abel as the 2nd son and not 2nd born, he/she would av made a clause somwhr else to indicate such. This clause(in citation or direct implication) is what I asked of u dat u av refused to present.
This is an argument of the contextual citation OR direct implication of a statement...as evidence that Abel was/wasn't the 2nd born.
I'm not interested in what you think shud be(it doesn't improve the quality of ur perspective), I'm concerned with what is, which is implied by the writer in the composition of his/her writing. I made do with what I av from my presentation of citations and references; not what I fink shud be.


Mornin..aw's ur nite?