Angel girl, see:

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

What you have been bowing down to is not Mary i think; i think you should open ur mind to om study and hold fast to that which is true. You contravene God's command with all effontery in this day of open knowledge. Open ur mind a little and see for yourself. Do not continue to wallow in ignorance all bcso u wre born into it.

At a point in my life, i had to change my church because of better apprciation of the truth. Do not close your mind, nobody is crusicfying you, we are only saying you should open up a bit and simply reason with the scriptures; search it for in the WORD of God is life. You need no mediator othr than Jesus. You make the work of diminish the person of Christ everytim to go to mary to ask for her help. It is not biblical, it is demonic. Just open up a bit and reason!

If you were a true Catholic, you will know that THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DO NOT WORSHIP THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. WE HONOR HER, BECAUSE SHE IS BLESSED AMONG WOMEN (Luke 1:42), am not a catholic today because my parents are, i have a strong foundation in the catholic church, a foundation built on truth and teachings of our lord Jesus Christ.

Do you love your mother? and are proud to diplay her picture for friends to see? How much more the Blessed Mother Of GOD!

The truth is "when you bow to an image, you worship it because it comes with reverence".

@Cgift: "The truth is "when you bow to an image, you worship it because it comes with reverence".

An image is a representation of person or anything made or carved of paper, stone, wood etc.
Images help us to remember some past events & also help 2 know some great men & women of God & d society.  They remind us of great religious men & women who served God in truth & in spirit & also d type of suffering & death they endured. 

When u see d image of d crucified Jesus, you shld meditate on his death. 
The image of d Blessed Virgin Mary imparts courage to d youth who is still a virgin.  You as a youth who hv not been this-virgined will be courageous.  The Blessed Virgin Mary was highly rewarded 4 maintaining her virginity & through her came Christ.  The Blessed Virgin Mary remained a virgin before & after giving birth 2 her only son Jesus Christ.

This does not mean that we catholics are going contrary to the commandment of God, that says:"thou shall not make 4 yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down 2 them or serve them" (Exodus 20:3-5)

Understand that not all bowing is worship as obtains in some countries & traditions which perform d act as a sign of respect or honour to elders & 2 those in authority.

In Joshua 5:14 One of d greatest leaders of Israel called Joshua met an Angel.  He did not only bow down or prostrate.  The scripture says that he threw himself on d ground & worshipped.  Was he worshipping that Angel or is an Angel not a likeness in Heaven?  Joshua recognised d Angel as God's representative & [b]REVERENCED THE PRESENCE OF GOD through d Angel[/b].

On armed forces remembrance day, Soldiers salute d statue of unknown soldier & lay their wreaths as sign of honour to the comrades who hv fallen in active service.  They shld not be seen 2 b saluting ordinary wood or woshipping it, not at all; but all respect goes to the departed soldiers.  Just as students, soldiers, policemen, scouts etc. who salute their flag r not worshiping d flag which is ordinary piece of cloth, but perform an act of REVERENCE to the nation or organisation which d flag represents.

Again, to kiss your photograph or that of your parents, your beloved sister, brother or friend, husband or wife does not mean that you're kissing d person physically but you're only expressing d love u hv 4 d person.

Therefore, when we bow 2 an image we do not worship or respect d image itself but what d image represents.

The book of Wisdom 16:5-11 gives more answer to this; it says, "Who turned towards it was saved not by what he saw but by thee O! Lord the Saviour of the world".   When we bow to an image we see and reason beyond the image just like d Israelites who were bitten by the venomous serpent were saved by looking beyond d bronze serpent that Moses made.

If you r sick & look at d image of Christ with faith you will obtain your healing like d Israelites who looked at d bronze serpent.

@Oby1,

There are certain things still standing out as not clear in your rejoinder.

Oby1:

Therefore, when we bow 2 an image we do not worship or respect d image itself but what d image represents.

So, should we take that to mean that when Catholics bow down to the image/statue of Mary, you do not worship or respect the image itself, but rather worship or respect Mary herself?

Oby1:

In Joshua 5:14 One of d greatest leaders of Israel called Joshua met an Angel. He did not only bow down or prostrate. The scripture says that he threw himself on d ground & worshipped. Was he worshipping that Angel or is an Angel not a likeness in Heaven? Joshua recognised d Angel as God's representative & REVERENCED THE PRESENCE OF GOD through d Angel.[list]

Let's take a look at Joshua 5:14 when Joshua encountered the Angel -- "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?"

Let's understand a few things about this event:

[list]
The Bible forbids any believer from worshipping any angel, whether that angel appears physically or is molded in stone, cast in silver or scuptured in cement or wood to represent any power or deity (cf. Daniel 11:38).[/list]

[list]
John who tried to do the same thing in Revelation 19:10 -- "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". Christians have been warned against the 'worshipping of angel' - for it is expressly forbidden (Col. 2:18)[/list]

[list]
Notice what the Angel called Himself in Joshua 5:14: "captain of the host of the LORD". This is clearly none other than the pre-incarnate Christ who is severally known in the OT as "the Angel of the LORD" - (Gen. 16:7-11; 22:11-12; Exo. 3:2-6; 23:20-21; Numbers 22; Judg. 2:1-4). In Rev. 19:13-14, His Name is called "the WORD of God", and He is seen there as the Captain who leads the heavenly host out in battle.[/list]

[list]
Notice also what Joshua called the Angel in Joshua 5:14 - "my Lord". This is clear that He understood the One who stood before him as the very Lord who deserves worship, knowing that no angel was ever to be worshipped in all ages.[/list]

In all of these, it is clear that the Angel of the LORD which appeared to Joshua in that chapter is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ. He is the very Rock that followed the Israelites in the OT (1 Cor. 10:4) and He is the very same One who led the chidlren of Israel out of Egypt (Judg. 2:1). So, when Joshua fell on his face and worshipped, he recognized that it was not just an "angel" who appeared to him; but rather the very Lord who is the Captain of our salvation (Heb. 2:10).

The Angel in Joshua 5:14 does not translate into the images of the Catholic Church. Look again into the verses you quote, and you will not find Catholicism there are all.

Cheers.

I don tire sef. Religion na serious thing o. Man mind be like computer program. Na wetin you tell am to do he go do. E no go wan change at all. It takes God to change a man's mind really. You can only make someone see reason, but the change of heart is from God alone.

cgift:

I don tire sef. Religion na serious thing o. Man mind be like computer program. Na wetin you tell am to do he go do. E no go wan change at all. It takes God to change a man's mind really. You can only make someone see reason, but the change of heart is from God alone.

@cgift,

No worry, lol. Just continue sowing the seed of God's WORD. Sooner than later, the virus of molten images for inside the "computer programme" will vanish - and only the good things will remain. Remember: "But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing" (2 Thes. 3:13).

@Cgift I don tire sef. Religion na serious thing o. Man mind be like computer program. Na wetin you tell am to do he go do. E no go wan change at all. It takes God to change a man's mind really. You can only make someone see reason, but the change of heart is from God alone.

You have to remove the scale in your own eyes first b4 removing ur brothers.
You cant convince someone who is already in the light, its never possible. Save yourself first. And mind you, dir r people over dir who needs d word of God, go talk to them. God came for the lost sheep, so go over dir look 4 d lost sheep and convert.

Let me tell u, i found God in the Catholic church and nothing and i mean nothing can stop me 4rm going back not even u or any other protesters.

You keep on protesting instead of dishing out d word of God.

@Pilgrim.1
So, should we take that to mean that when Catholics bow down to the image/statute of Mary, you do not worship or respect the image itself, but rather worship or respect Mary herself?

Point of correction again and again NOT WORSHIPPING, BUT HONOURING HER (Please always note this)

Mind you, Joshua did not worship the Angel, but pictured God thru the Angel and bowed before it worshipping God. (Josh 5:14)

Revelation 19:10 – “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of they brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”.

Please stop contradicting the word of God. What you are trying to say is that the Angel that Appeared to John is not sent by God or Pre-incarnate of God? All the Angels mentioned in the Bible came in the name of the Lord my dear. God Pre-incarnates through them to speak or deliver message, not with their own power, but the power of God.

The Angel in Rev.:19:10 came also as Captain of the host of the LORD, because he did not mention it, like he mentioned it to Joshua.

The Angel in Rev19:10 is trying to pass the message to John and us that God only should be worshipped, John wanted to make that mistake, but he was corrected. We worship God only Just like Joshua did, not the Angel.
You quoted also (Gen 16:7-11; 22: 11-12; Exo. 3:2-6; 23: 20-21; Num 22; judg. 2:1-4) In all this places are the manifestation of God thru his Angels.

Even in Gen 18: 1-7, you can read where Abraham bowed down before the three men who were passing through his house. Tell me is he worshipping them by bowing to them?

All scriptures were written by the inspiration of God and for a purpose

The Bible forbids any believer from worshipping any angel, whether that angel appears physically or is molded in stone, cast in silver or sculptured in cement or wood to represent any power or deity (Daniel 11:38)

Daniel 11:38 which you quoted says: “Instead, he will honour d god who protects fortresses. He will offer gold, silver, jewels and other rich gifts to a god his ancestors never worshipped”.
If you read through is talking about the king of Syria who worship false gods. And we all know as Christians it is bad to worship false god. So it’s out of what I mean because we don’t worship false god, but the true and living God, God of all the universe, creator of heaven and earth.

Lets look at Daniel 8:17, when the Angel Gabriel visited Daniel he fell to the ground, was that an act of worship?
You protestant kneel before your Bible or your General Overseers pictures while praying. What do we call that?

Remember God says in the book of Exodus 20; you should not accuse anyone falsely and you are going against the commandment of God, by accusing us falsely.
And God says the greatest commandment He has given us is to love one another as he loved us.
If you that love is dir, then you will start appreciating our faith.

May God help us all.
Cheers

Hi again @Oby1,

Oby1:

Point of correction again and again NOT WORSHIPPING, BUT HONOURING HER (Please always note this)

Okay, I've always tried to note that. But could you please let us know what exactly Catholics mean by "honouring Mary"?

In trying to note this issue of "honour" bestowed to Mary, where exactly do Catholics find the injunction to PRAY TO Mary? I know that not so many Catholics understand the implications of what it means to pray to Mary; and some even go as far as denying that Catholics pray TO Mary. But could you help us understand the implication of "honouring" Mary and what it entails? Where does praying To her come into the picture?

More specifically --

[list]
* do Catholics pray TO Mary the way they would pray to God?

* do Catholics put their trust in Mary in times of difficulty in the way a Christian trusts in God?

* do Catholics seek to derive divine graces and blessings from Mary the way a Christian seeks them from God?[/list]

Please could you help clarify on those issues just for the record? Thank you.

Oby1:

Mind you, Joshua did not worship the Angel, but pictured God through the Angel and bowed before it worshipping God. (Josh 5:14)

I'd rather you don't try to read something into that text that is simply not there! The verse plainly says that Joshua worshipped and addressed the Angel as "lord" --

[list]And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship,
and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? [/list]

There's nothing to hint there that he "pictured" God through the Angel. Plain and simple, Joshua worshipped and addressed the Angel as "my Lord".

Oby1:

Revelation 19:10 – “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of they brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”.

Please stop contradicting the word of God. What you are trying to say is that the Angel that Appeared to John is not sent by God or Pre-incarnate of God? All the Angels mentioned in the Bible came in the name of the Lord my dear. God Pre-incarnates through them to speak or deliver message, not with their own power, but the power of God.

First, I never said or hinted that the angel in Revelation 19 was not sent by God. If I said so, please quote me.

Second, I'm not contradicting the WORD of God - and I presented exactly what is written there in Revelation 19. You can check again and verify.

Third, there's not one time that "God pre-incarnates" through any angel! Not one time. If you find any verse that teaches you that, leave the Catholic traditions aside for a moment, and post me that verse.

Just to be sure that God never pre-incarnated Himself through any angel, here's a verse to confirm this point:

[list]Heb 2:16 -- "For verily He took not on him the nature of angels; but He took on him the seed of Abraham."[/list]

Oby1:

The Angel in Rev.:19:10 came also as Captain of the host of the LORD, because he did not mention it, like he mentioned it to Joshua.

Carefully consider the verses I offered you to confirm that the Angel who appeared as the Captain of the host of the LORD is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ. He has appeared and been with the Israelites in various forms - even at one time, they did not recognize that He was the Rock that followed them in the wilderness (1 Cor. 10:4). God nowhere pre-incarnated Himself through an angel; and the texts in the OT presenting Him as "the Angel of the LORD" in reference to deity are none other than the confirmation that He was the very One whom Israel reverenced as God.

Oby1:

The Angel in Rev19:10 is trying to pass the message to John and us that God only should be worshipped, John wanted to make that mistake, but he was corrected. We worship God only Just like Joshua did, not the Angel.

In which case, John would have bowed to the angel in Revelation 19 and then claim that he was actually seeing God pre-incarnated through the angel - according to your theory!

You see, what Catholics do is keep knotting themselves further with theories that they come back rejecting. I'm waiting to see you answers to the questions above on "honouring" Mary, just to confirm that you will later come back rejecting your own theories again. Bet me on that!

Oby1:

You quoted also (Gen 16:7-11; 22: 11-12; Exo. 3:2-6; 23: 20-21; Num 22; judg. 2:1-4) In all this places are the manifestation of God through his Angels.

True that I quoted all those verses - but please take time and go through them. They do not represent the manifestations of God through angels (plural). In simple, uncomplicate terms, the Angel (singular) of the LORD in those verses are all pointing to God Himself. No man ever bowed to an angel and worshipped if that angel was not deity. Please find me a verse where they otherwise did so.

Oby1:

Even in Gen 18: 1-7, you can read where Abraham bowed down before the three men who were passing through his house. Tell me is he worshipping them by bowing to them?

Most defintely YES! A few pointers to clarify the point:

[list]
what did Abraham call the one who appeared to him?

* Abraham called Him "My Lord" - vs. 3 [/list]

who spoke of "returning" to bless Sarah?

* it was none other than the LORD who was present there with Abraham - vs. 10, 13 & 14.

Did you carefully check on those references? Or do you want more?

Oby1:

All scriptures were written by the inspiration of God and for a purpose

I know that - and it is for that very reason that we implore Catholics to read the inspired WORD of God and compare with the "bull" from the Vatican to see the difference.

Oby1:

The Bible forbids any believer from worshipping any angel, whether that angel appears physically or is molded in stone, cast in silver or sculptured in cement or wood to represent any power or deity (Daniel 11:38)

Daniel 11:38 which you quoted says: “Instead, he will honour d god who protects fortresses. He will offer gold, silver, jewels and other rich gifts to a god his ancestors never worshipped”.
If you read through is talking about the king of Syria who worship false gods. And we all know as Christians it is bad to worship false god. So it’s out of what I mean because we don’t worship false god, but the true and living God, God of all the universe, creator of heaven and earth.

I offered Daniel 11:38 to show that ascribing worship to God with molten images of gold, silver, jewels, and other rich gifts is described in Scripture as false worship. Other verses you could use to confirm this include the following:

[list]Exo. 20:23 -- "Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold."

Exo. 23:24 -- "Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images."

Exo. 32:2-5 -- "And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD."[/list]

There - the whole scenario being replayed in Catholicism again:

[list][li]the gold and jewels[/li][/list]

[list][li]the altars[/li][/list]

[list][li]the molten image (this time is shaped like a woman [Mary] and man [the Pope])[/li][/list]

Everywhere you read about molten images, whether in Daniel 11 or Exodus to Deuteronomy, God has a disdain for all such practices. The irony of it all is that Catholics assert that these molten images of Mary and the Pope only help them remember Mary so they can honour her! Did you read what Israel did? They worshipped the molten image of the calf, and then proclaimed a feast "tomorrow" unto the LORD! You know the rest of the narratives - please show us where God was sooo pleased by that kind of worship.

Oby1:

Lets look at Daniel 8:17, when the Angel Gabriel visited Daniel he fell to the ground, was that an act of worship?

No, that was not an act of worship. [b]WHY not? Because Daniel clearly records he was terrified - "So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face. . ." I wonder if you read that Daniel ever addressed the angel Gabriel as "My Lord"?

No, he did not. Rather, Daniel himself said this: "And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes" (Daniel 9:3). The second time that Gabriel appeared to Daniel (ch. 9:21) we don't read that he bowed down to worship the angel either. Are we missing something, Oby1?

Oby1:

You protestant kneel before your Bible or your General Overseers pictures while praying. What do we call that?

Sorry, I don't kneel before my Bible or "G.O." Incidentally, our pastors join us in prayers, both kneeling or standing when we all pray; but not at anytime since I started attending this local church has anyone hinted that any such thing occurs.

Oby1:

Remember God says in the book of Exodus 20; you should not accuse anyone falsely and you are going against the commandment of God, by accusing us falsely.

If the things I've presented about the Catholic Church are not true, please show us as simply that they are not so.

Oby1:

And God says the greatest commandment He has given us is to love one another as he loved us.
If you that love is dir, then you will start appreciating our faith.

Biblical love for God and man is to obey what God teaches us in His WORD. It is because of that love that we keep asking, praying for, prodding, dialoguing, seeking, engaging, and calling unto our dear Catholic friends to open the Bible and let God speak to their hearts.

Oby1:

May God help us all.
Cheers

Amen - I trust He will, as soon as we open our hearts to Him.

Warmest regards.

OBY OBY,

I hail you o! Why you de rage like this? Calm down my sis.

I can tell you vividly that it is not possible to say you are worshipping God truly in the Catholic church that bows down in worship of Mary and looks up to her to mediate for them. It is also not coherent to say you will first go to pugatory [/b]and [b]suffer [/b]and be [b]cleansed [/b]b4 you will now go to heaven and you say you are of Christ? Did Christ teach that? [b]BIG NO. Did God not tell you not to make anything image not to talk of bowing down to it?

You obviously do not have boldness to call Christ abba Father, cos it seems [/b]the experience of the Holy Spirit is not with you guys. Are you afraid of Christ that you can not approach him directly and you have to go through Mary, your [b]mediatrix?

Who has also told you that Christ is angry with you because of your sins and needs to be calmed by Mary? Mary was a sinner like every other person as at that time. She had to do what all other Isrealite women did by going to the temple to have her sins cleased after the birth of Jesus. How can someone who was also a beneficiary of the saving grace of Jesus the Christ through the cross now turn to be an intercessor? Are you saying that Mary is excluded from work of the cross of Jesus? If that is your submission, then it is a doctrine of demons.

See:

Luke 2: 21 ¶And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

She was impure! She was a sinner like you and me before the death of Christ! How can someone who was a sinner like me claim to be a mediator when he is not better than me!

You need to open up I guess. You obviously have doctrines of men (plenty) in the Catholic church since they are no where to be traced to in the bible.

Lt me even ask you? What assurancs have you ever received from Mary all these years you have been honouring her?

Thank pilgrim.1, your post was right on spot. Oby, you need the assurance of salvation, you guys ain't gotten one yet! God help you. God help me.

cgift:

Are you afraid of Christ that you can not approach him directly and you have to go through Mary, your mediatrix?

Bros, you just hot another thing I was hoping to come to at some point. Nonetheless, let me touch upon it in passing.

When the Catholic Church teaches that Mary intercedes on their behalf to Jesus Christ, a Catholic has to ask himself or herself what that is saying about Christ Himself. As asked above, are Catholics afraid of Christ that they cannot approach Him directly? Have Catholics ever taken the time to check on what exactly PAPACY teaches about the attitude of Christ that necessitates Mary's "intercession/mediation"?

We're still asking Catholics to help clarify this issue about praying to Mary - it goes far beyond just "honouring" her. A soon as any Catholic can help us with answers, I'll post what the PAPACY have taught about praying to Mary. One step at a time.

Unfortunately none of our friends are online now. ebos, angelgirl, oby, lawyer, etc. Please send me links to the papacy pilgrim. You can send to crownsgift@yahoo.com if you do not want to put it hre now!

All I ask from God is to continue to open your eyes one by one to see what you people are missing.

We have the supreme one - The Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The Mother of Jesus - Mary the Virgin Mother of God (Who intercedes for us)
We have the Saints in Heaven and all the Angels (Who intercedes for us)

So no matter the castigation, all our Aims is to make heaven.

If the Catholic church is blind, then i'm suppose to still be swimming in the ocean of my sin, but it was in this same catholic church i met Jesus (despite all my wrong doings during the past) I could still find peace in him. The peace i have never felt before. Before i do anything i seek his face, and he hears me. And i go to the Mass, hear the gospel and get refreshed each and every day with his words. So i don't know what you guys are saying.

If that same God that is in the protestant church is the God of peace, i tell you brethren that, that same God of peace is everywhere that he is invited.

He opened my eyes to make me realise that i am heading for destruction and all this happened in the Catholic church. I was born a Catholic, but i was still swimming in Sin, but not until one day everything changed in my life. I didn't go to any other church to be converted. I was converted in the Catholic church.

Look let me tell you church cannot save you, your level of annointing cannot save, how much you know about the word of God cannot save you, but the fruit the word of God bears in ur life.

So lets stop all this argument about Catholic church being this or that, but encourage each other as a Christain. I state categorically that there is nothing at all wrong with the teachings of the Catholic church.

You can't tell me that all Muslim will go to hell or even all Pagan will go to hell.

God's judgement is different from Men's judgement.

Dear Oby1,

I've replied in another thread, so we could leave this one to Catholics as its title indicates: "For Catholic Faithfuls". One of my friends (she's Catholic) pointed this out to me; and I think it's only fair that we express the decency to allow Catholics share whatever is of mutual interest among themselves here.

Thank you for your understanding and willingness to dialogue. Cheers.

cgift:

Unfortunately none of our friends are online now. ebos, angelgirl, oby, lawyer, etc. Please send me links to the papacy pilgrim. You can send to crownsgift@yahoo.com if you do not want to put it hre now!

Lol. . . there are a few weblinks, I'll send some later. But most of the stuff I'd wanted to post are from books by Catholic authors, and I've tried to look them up on the net to no avail. Anyhow, a few of them will be served gently.

Reagrds.

Still waiting dear pilgrim,

cgift:

Still waiting dear pilgrim,

I've taken it to the other thread. Click here to refer. Cheers.

Stop mis interpreting the bible. its we the catholics that started Christianity and we compiled the bible as you know it today in the year 350AD

Hey! guys a i am proud of you defending your faith even in the face of oral persecution, i would be more than glad to join the team of defenders. I have put up a blog to address Catholic teachings incase of fellow brethren that would be interested to know more about the Catholic faith. I love you all . Check out catholicmatters.vox.com

I AM A CATHOLIC AND I AM PROUD TO SAY IT ANY WERE(dominus vobiscum).I ve visited other churches n we all ve our different modus oprandi,all aim at glorifying God!!!dat kooll
Please do not criticise any church.I ve read about the history of the church and most people here don't know any thin about the church history.
Who began the first church?
where n when?
how many lives were lost for the sake of the first church?
Find out the answers then look inwardly n reflect

A little Spice

Martin Luther who was the formost and reknowed critique of the catholic church,at his point of death sent for a priest to hear his confession and died a catholic.
A word is enough i rest my case

mean while any catholic Priest here?like to talk to u

Its fairly obvious that the deification of the woman who gave birth to the Jewish Carpenter (AFTER NORMAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH SOMEBODY) is occassioned by the marriage between pagan Roman ideas and early christianity.

Get educated. The Roman pagans were obsessed with the ancient goddess of fertility called Ishtar in Babylon, Aphrodite in Greece, and also known as Venus or Diana.

When two cultures mix, many elements are transposed. The deification of the mother of the carpenter is one of such.

Other elements include the Easter Egg (a pagan symbol of fertility), the christmas tree (another pagan inheritance) etc.

I am sure many catholics may not be aware that the word "Easter" is the english translation for the word "Astarte" - the same pagan goddess of fertility.

Really the lesson then is that ancient dogma is useless both factually and spiritually and this is the big problem with teh Catholic Church.

[Its fairly obvious that the deification of the woman who gave birth to the Jewish Carpenter (AFTER NORMAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH SOMEBODY) is occassioned by the marriage between pagan Roman ideas and early christianity.

Get educated. The Roman pagans were obsessed with the ancient goddess of fertility called Ishtar in Babylon, Aphrodite in Greece, and also known as Venus or Diana.

When two cultures mix, many elements are transposed. The deification of the mother of the carpenter is one of such.

Other elements include the Easter Egg (a pagan symbol of fertility), the christmas tree (another pagan inheritance) etc.

I am sure many catholics may not be aware that the word "Easter" is the english translation for the word "Astarte" - the same pagan goddess of fertility.

Really the lesson then is that ancient dogma is useless both factually and spiritually and this is the big problem with teh Catholic Church. /quote]

thank u sir !Hold on to your faith and leave us alone

We are only trying to school you dogmatists. By the way, you are African are you not? You all open your throats and swallow imported myths hook line and sinker.

Please can you think out of the box for once.

Some of the teachings of the church are absolutely absurd.

Not to speak about the blood-soaked history of the church and particularly the papacy.

We are intervening for your own good: and we will not stop until we have made it clear that there is little merit in the imported pagan myths that this thread seeks to idealize.

We are only trying to school you dogmatists. By the way, you are African are you not? You all open your throats and swallow imported myths hook line and sinker.

Please can you think out of the box for once.

Some of the teachings of the church are absolutely absurd.

Not to speak about the blood-soaked history of the church and particularly the papacy.

We are intervening for your own good: and we will not stop until we have made it clear that there is little merit in the imported pagan myths that this thread seeks to idealize.

Once more, thank u sir! LEAVE US WITH OUR BELIEF

Hiya again. just wanted to say hi to the delightfully blind. Hope you are still busy choosing favourite saints (including people like the former tsar of Russia who STILL GOT sainted. urrgh). Have fun with your pseudo-objective outlook.


Always fun to see people who still defend their religion on blind loyalty.(Latest convert: Foster C

Foster cat:

I AM A CATHOLIC AND I AM PROUD TO SAY IT ANY WERE(dominus vobiscum).I ve visited other churches n we all ve our different modus oprandi,all aim at glorifying God!!!dat kooll
Please do not criticise any church.I ve read about the history of the church and most people here don't know any thin about the church history.
Who began the first church?
where n when?
how many lives were lost for the sake of the first church?
Find out the answers then look inwardly n reflect

A little Spice

Martin Luther who was the formost and reknowed critique of the catholic church,at his point of death sent for a priest to hear his confession and died a catholic.
A word is enough i rest my case

mean while any catholic Priest here?like to talk to u

at)

who cares who started the church. the church was started by Jesus Christ. Get that clear and forget about the divisions that arose after he left. even in paul's time, there were divisions talkless after.

About luther dying a catholic, you are a stone cold liar. If you had said Voltaire then you would have made sense.

These are the accounts of his last hours from Wikipedia
The negotiations were successfully concluded on 17 February 1546. After 8:00 p.m., he experienced chest pains. When he went to his bed, he prayed, "Into your hand I commit my spirit; you have redeemed me, O Lord, faithful God" (Ps. 31:5), the common prayer of the dying. At 1:00 a.m. he awoke with more chest pain and was warmed with hot towels. He thanked God for revealing his Son to him in whom he had believed. His companions, Justus Jonas and Michael Coelius, shouted loudly, "Reverend father, are you ready to die trusting in your Lord Jesus Christ and to confess the doctrine which you have taught in his name?" A distinct "Yes" was Luther's reply.

Luther's face and hands cast at his death.An apoplectic stroke deprived him of his speech, and he died shortly afterwards at 2:45 a.m., 18 February 1546, aged 62, in Eisleben, the city of his birth. He was buried in the Castle Church in Wittenberg, beneath the pulpit

To All

Please, can anyone tell me the meaning of mass? Include references pls. Tnx

dexmond:

To All

Please, can anyone tell me the meaning of mass? Include references pls. Tnx

The Mass is the Eucharistic celebration in the Latin liturgical rites of the Roman Catholic Church. The term is used also of similar celebrations in Old Catholic Churches, in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, in some largely High Church Lutheran regions, including the Scandinavian and Baltic countries, and in a small amount of High Church Methodist parishes. For the celebration of the Eucharist in Eastern Churches, including those in full communion with the Holy See, other terms, such as the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana, and the Badarak, are normally used. Most Western denominations not in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church, such as Calvinist Christianity, also usually prefer terms other than Mass.


The term "Mass" is derived from the late-Latin word missa (dismissal), a word used in the concluding formula of Mass in Latin: "Ite, missa est" ("Go; it is the dismissal".[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_%28liturgy%29

Omenuko:

The Mass is the Eucharistic celebration in the Latin liturgical rites of the Roman Catholic Church. The term is used also of similar celebrations in Old Catholic Churches, in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, in some largely High Church Lutheran regions, including the Scandinavian and Baltic countries, and in a small amount of High Church Methodist parishes. For the celebration of the Eucharist in Eastern Churches, including those in full communion with the Holy See, other terms, such as the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana, and the Badarak, are normally used. Most Western denominations not in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church, such as Calvinist Christianity, also usually prefer terms other than Mass.


The term "Mass" is derived from the late-Latin word missa (dismissal), a word used in the concluding formula of Mass in Latin: "Ite, missa est" ("Go; it is the dismissal".[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_%28liturgy%29

unnecessarily ornate traditions just to serve God. #smh

kodewrita:

unnecessarily ornate traditions just to serve God. #smh

cant get what u mean, are u ok?

nwa afo:

cant get what u mean, are u ok?

very very Ok sir. Just irritated that people will block the way to Christ with so much useless dross.

And irritated at a faith that allows its members to live only in the superficial observance of christianity and not allow them experience its deep truths.

A faith that artificially creates a hallowed elite (even tho the truths on which the faith is supposedly based are egalitarian---All have sinned and fallen short. NO ONE IS INFALLIBLE).

Hey everyone, Though I am not a catholic, I love the Catholic's ways of worship.

I even have a patron saint (Saint Anthony of Padua), some of you will say that you have read some of my postings and opinions, but truth is I am eclectic, I am free and I chose whoever to believe in.