wirinet:

The universe does not exactly have an age. What is known is that the universe started its expansion some 12 - 15 billion years ago.
It is you religious people that are so arrogant in ignorance. You guys are so mentally lazy, that you are not ready to study and research any physical phenomena. Left to you guys, the sun, planets and moon would still be gods, and any unexplained phenomena would simply be allocated to a god.

Ranchhoddas:
What have you researched? Google researcher. Was the universe as we now know it in existence before the expansion? Think of it as a baby in the womb, the child is already in existence but you do not start counting it's age until it's born....and as for your drivel about unexplained phenomena, I never know wetin to tell you.

wirinet:

The universe does not exactly have an age. What is known is that the universe started its expansion some 12 - 15 billion years ago.
It is you religious people that are so arrogant in ignorance. You guys are so mentally lazy, that you are not ready to study and research any physical phenomena. Left to you guys, the sun, planets and moon would still be gods, and any unexplained phenomena would simply be allocated to a god.

Ranchhoddas:
I said this Entity is CAUSELESS. The Universe has a beginning and something made it happen. The nature and workings of this Thing, I do not claim to know, but if you insist that nothing made the Universe, the burden of proof then falls on you...The Eternal Nature of this being is a logical assumption on my part.

donnffd:


If it is truly a logical assumption, then it is a big step from the universe must have a beginning to the creator is Eternal

What if the cause of the universe was impersonal, without an intention, an accident...

What if the cause of the universe was a community of Eternal beings working on a project just the same way groups of people build a space-craft or a skyscraper(which is far more logical than assuming the universe is created by one being, thats like saying a rocket was built by one person).

What if the cause of the universe is still subject to causality?, there is no rule that says everything outside the universe must be causeless and immaterial(its like saying because a locked room is full of air, if you step outside the room, you wouldnt find air anymore)

There are lots of logical assumptions that are far more reasonable than assuming that the cause of the universe is a timeless, immaterial, single being.

Ranchhoddas:
Like I said, the nature of this Creator is unknown to me, whether a Creator or a race of Creators, the point is that an Intelligence was required to birth the Universe we know today.

donnffd:


I understand you perfectly but i still think the logical conclusion is off...

Heres your argument:

-The Universe had a beginning
- Meaning the universe must have a cause
- Therefore the cause of the universe must be intelligent

Do you see the flaw of that argument?

There is nothing in the first two premise that leads to an intelligent cause...

Ranchhoddas:
Can there be an unintelligent cause for something as complex as the Universe.

donnffd:


Your idea of complex might be far-fetched...The universe is a very random and chaotic place with bodies colliding with one another, stars exploding, and black holes forming. 76% of its contents(Dark Energy) is expanding it at an exponential rate into Nothingness.

I really fail to see the design or complexity you talk about...

Ranchhoddas:
Na wa o. Is your anatomy not complex? I assume that you are a part of the Universe.

donnffd:


If life is your yardstick for complexity, then sorry but intelligence wasnt what was behind that complexity but Evolution.

It was discovered about 150years ago and the scientific consensus agrees on it because of the numerous wealth of evidence even if you might have a problem with it or reject it, but the truth remains that whether you accept it or not, it still doesnt change the fact that all life on earth evolved and ddnt require any intelligence at all.

Ranchhoddas:
Oh. The Milky Way is not complex enough for you, the rotation of the Earth isn't complex enough, what about the birth and death of stars; not complex enough? What then fits your criteria for complexity? An Iphone perhaps?

donnffd:


Why should the rotation of the earth be complex when its explained simply, Gravity...the Suns gravity is what is pull the earth around...whats so complex in that?

The birth of stars is all gravity, large gases of hydrogen collapse on their own gravity to create stars...the death of stars isnt that complex also, its hydrogen fuel finished at the core there by making the stars surface unstable...

We understand all these things,its a normal thing, no intelligence is needed for it, i dont get the complexity you are talking about o....

Ranchhoddas:
What in the Universe meets your criteria for complexity?

donnffd:


If you noticed, i said your "idea" of complexity is far-fetched.

I do not claim the universe is overly simple, on the contrary, i believe it to be extremely beautiful even among the chaos, but i dont see any sign of intelligent work, for example, look at life, at first glance, you would argue that Life had to be the work of a designer, and so we thought for centuries, until Darwin showed us the wonderful work of Nature and its illusion of Design.

Now you cant argue that Life is the most complex Natural thing in the universe as we know it and still it came about Naturally without any intelligent help, now why now claim that the universe which in comparison with Life is far less complex and disordered was a product of intelligence?

Ranchhoddas:
I can't disagree with this. But which is more logical; that these natural processes began spontaneously or that they were kickstarted by something?

donnffd:


Even if something started it, it still doesnt mean that that something was intelligent or even had intentions...

donnffd:


Your idea of complex might be far-fetched...The universe is a very random and chaotic place with bodies colliding with one another, stars exploding, and black holes forming. 76% of its contents(Dark Energy) is expanding it at an exponential rate into Nothingness.

I really fail to see the design or complexity you talk about...

GoodMuyis:
The existence of God remained unresolved debate on nairaland, but I came up with this simple analogy using our famous lalasticlala.

Just like God, Lalas remain a mystery till today as a matter of fact, many nairaland member may not know that lalas do create his how topic that never made Front Page, ok lets leave story who e epp.

Lalas remain unknown to 99.9999% but only known for pushing Topic to FP, despite unknown does not invalidate his existence, in fact it will be foolishness for someone to wake-up one day and begin to say Lalas is nonentity.

If Nairaland atheist who have never met or seen Virtual Lalas before, create a Topic and pray to #FPgod quoting relevant incantation like snake, fayose, or any trending and expect the Topic to be at front page, WHY should it be difficult to believed God existed even if He remain unseen

There are many who create either worthy/non-worthy FP Topic and still pray to Lalas and their prayer remain unanswered, those with worthy topics considered Lalas action as wickedness and evil, YET that does not mean a Keyboard Warrior monikered lalastic.lala doest not exist.

LIKE GOD Like lalastic.lala
Remain Unseen to many but few - but existed
Post un-sources BREAKING NEWS, Topic with Strong Word or Hate and your FP prayer remain unanswered - except you follow DueProcess

Some atheist will say waris dis what nonsense! well thats same way a deist look at you when you say God does not exit.

I hope with this little nonsense am able to help your night or morning

AnonyNymous:
I don't understand how somebody will sit down and compose this nonsense

GoodMuyis:
[s] The existence of God remained unresolved debate on nairaland, but I came up with this simple analogy using our famous lalasticlala.

Just like God, Lalas remain a mystery till today as a matter of fact, many nairaland member may not know that lalas do create his how topic that never made Front Page, ok lets leave story who e epp.

Lalas remain unknown to 99.9999% but only known for pushing Topic to FP, despite unknown does not invalidate his existence, in fact it will be foolishness for someone to wake-up one day and begin to say Lalas is nonentity.

If Nairaland atheist who have never met or seen Virtual Lalas before, create a Topic and pray to #FPgod quoting relevant incantation like snake, fayose, or any trending and expect the Topic to be at front page, WHY should it be difficult to believed God existed even if He remain unseen

There are many who create either worthy/non-worthy FP Topic and still pray to Lalas and their prayer remain unanswered, those with worthy topics considered Lalas action as wickedness and evil, YET that does not mean a Keyboard Warrior monikered lalastic.lala doest not exist.

LIKE GOD Like lalastic.lala
Remain Unseen to many but few - but existed
Post un-sources BREAKING NEWS, Topic with Strong Word or Hate and your FP prayer remain unanswered - except you follow DueProcess

Some atheist will say waris dis what nonsense! well thats same way a deist look at you when you say God does not exit.

I hope with this little nonsense am able to help your night or morning [/s]

ValentineMary:

Pls tell me u gave your 2 year old brother to type this for u. If u did it urself, then am disappointed how sensless this thread is.
It is so senseless that it does not deserve a response.