Extract From Wiki's History of the word "Yahweh"

Originated among the Israelites?
A more fundamental question is whether the name Yahweh originated among the Israelites or was adopted by them from some other people and speech.[87]

The biblical author of the history of the sacred institutions (P) expressly declares that the name Yahweh was unknown to the patriarchs (Exod. vi. 3), and the much older Israelite historian (E) records the first revelation of the name to Moses (Exod. iii. 13-15), apparently following a tradition according to which the Israelites had not been worshippers of Yahweh before the time of Moses, or, as he conceived it, had not worshipped the god of their fathers under that name.[citation needed]

The revelation of the name to Moses was made at a mountain sacred to Yahweh, (the mountain of God) far to the south of Canaan, in a region where the forefathers of the Israelites had never roamed, and in the territory of other tribes. Long after the settlement in Canaan this region continued to be regarded as the abode of Yahweh (Judg. v. 4; Deut. xxxiii. 2 sqq.; I Kings xix. 8 sqq. &c).

Moses is closely connected with the tribes in the vicinity of the holy mountain Mount Horeb. According to the Book of Exodus, Moses married a daughter of the priest of Midian (Exod. ii. 16 sqq.; iii. 1). It is to this mountain he led the Israelites after their deliverance from Egypt. There his father-in-law met him, and extolling Yahweh as greater than all the gods, offered sacrifices, at which the chief men of the Israelites were his guests. In the holy mountain the religion of Yahweh was revealed through Moses, and the Israelites pledged themselves to serve God according to its prescriptions.

It appears, therefore, that in the tradition followed by the Israelite historians, the tribes within whose pasture lands the mountain of God stood were worshipers of Yahweh before the time of Moses. The surmise that the name Yahweh belongs to their speech, rather than to that of Israel, is a significant possibility. One of these tribes was Edom, another Midian, between whose lands the mountain of God lay. The Kenites also, with whom another tradition connects Moses, seem to have been worshipers of Yahweh, but the Amalek who were great enemies of Israel were not a part of the covenant to be law abiding.

Petroglyphs evidencing that Yahweh (El, Al, Allah, Iah) was at one time reverenced by various tribes near Palestine in the Seir, the mountain chain running between Mount Horeb and Hammath, in Sinai and the Negev, have been found at Serabit el Khadim. Emanual Anasti has found several cultic places in that territory (Horeb, Sinai, Kadesh, &c.)that were sacred to the various powers of secular lord, wind, storm, water in the desert, fire and smoke that these glyphs represented. The oldest and most famous of these, the mountain of God, Mount Horeb seems to have lain in Arabia, at the juncture of the Arabah with the Gulf of Aqabah of the Red Sea at Elat. From some of these peoples and at one of these holy places, a group of Israelite tribes adopted the religion of Yahweh, the power who, by the hand of Moses, had delivered them from Egypt.[88]

The tribes of this region probably belonged to some branch of the Arabian desert Semitic stock, and accordingly, the name Yahweh has been connected with the Arabic hawa, the void (between heaven and earth), "the atmosphere, or with the verb hawa, cognate with Heb; Hawah, "sink, glide down (through space)"; and hawwa "blow (wind)". "He rides through the air, He blows" (Wellhausen), would be a fit name for a god of wind and storm. There is, however, no certain evidence that the Israelites in historical times had any consciousness of the primitive significance of the name.


So Davidylan - Stop shouting to the Muslims about a "moon god"!

Clearly if Yorubaland was near Egypt at that time the name Moses would have heard may have been "Sango"!

here we go again.

smh.


Can you read Exodus and understand the Israelites were estranged both emotionally and physically from their original roots.

should I go dig up the relevant verses? Again?

Moses led them back to the worship of the God their forefathers had served. And even then they still wanted to worship cows and various other objects at the drop of a hat.

what are you saying here that contradicts anything anywhere?

Tpia, i have no problem with your reasoning.

This thread is a reaction to the mostly xtian allegations that "Allah" is not a reference to God, but to a pagan idol.

Frankly, imo, the orinigin of the names are not relevant so long as the person(s) currently using the names have God almighty in mind.

This thread simply shows that there's no point attacking the name Allah, because, xtians are not even sure that the name "Yahweh" did not have a pagan origin.

Gte it?

Deep Sight:

Tpia, i have no problem with your reasoning.

This thread is a reaction to the mostly xtian allegations that "Allah" is not a reference to God, but to a pagan idol.

Frankly, imo, the orinigin of the names are not relevant so long as the person(s) currently using the names have God almighty in mind.

This thread simply shows that there's no point attacking the name Allah, because, xtians are not even sure that the name "Yahweh" did not have a pagan origin.

Gte it?

Xtians are not even sure the name Yahweh did not have a pagan origin?

who are the Xtians you're referring to?

I hope you know the etymology of the word Yahweh, not minding the fact that your post proved absolutely nothing ? Copy and paste isnt the end of all enquiry. You're supposed to also analyse what you're copying and pasting.

why do you consider research into the name Allah as an attack? History is history whether you like it or not and the fact that people argue doesnt mean they're automatically wrong just because you dont like what they're saying or their mode of presentation.

tpia.:

Xtians are not even sure the name Yahweh did not have a pagan origin?

who are the Xtians you're referring to?

I hope you know the etymology of the word Yahweh, not minding the fact that your post proved absolutely nothing ? Copy and paste isnt the end of all enquiry. You're supposed to also analyse what you're copying and pasting.

why do you consider research into the name Allah as an attack? History is history whether you like it or not and the fact that people argue doesnt mean they're automatically wrong just because you dont like what they're saying or their mode of presentation.

Yep, i copied that from wiki, no denying - in the post i clearly stated: "Extract from wikipedia", so no stress there.

Did you really read the extract, by the way? Because it seems quite clear that the word Yahweh was in use by surrounding tribes before Uncle Moses came along.

Care to wonder what their concept of Yahweh was? Was it the God of Abraham?

Are you sure that that name was not thereafter ascribed to the God of Abraham?

So if we can research the name "Allah", lets also research the name "Yahweh"!

Deep Sight:

Yep, i copied that from wiki, no denying - in the post i clearly stated: "Extract from wikipedia", so no stress there.

Did you really read the extract, by the way? Because it seems quite clear that the word Yahweh was in use by surrounding tribes before Uncle Moses came along.

Care to wonder what their concept of Yahweh was? Was it the God of Abraham?

Are you sure that that name was not thereafter ascribed to the God of Abraham?

So if we can research the name "Allah", lets also research the name "Yahweh"!

research all you want but if your "research" is limited to wiki which even I can edit, then you shouldnt go around insisting your so-called "research" is set in stone.

Its a well known fact that the name Allah preceeded Islam. What's your problem with that?

Yahweh isnt the only name by which God is known. Most Christian scholars took a while to even use that particular name, so i dont see why you're getting so agitated. Go and research the theology of Jehovah's witnesses and find out why they built an entire church over a quarrel about the name.

I hope I'm helping you understand there's nothing you're saying here which hasnt already been discussed to extinction?

El is a Semitic word, hence its many variants including Al.

Abraham came from U.r in the Chaldees- present day Iraq or Kuwait. His father was Terah, who was descended directly from Shem, Noah's son. Can you tell me the name of the God who Noah worshipped?

^^^ Cant really see that we have a dispute. . . or is there one?

Deep Sight:

^^^ Cant really see that we have a dispute. . . or is there one?

No.


but it seems you're trying to create one.

^^^ No, no, no, not at all, I just want peeps to learn to be fair and balanced.

Like i said, imo, the origin of these names doesnt even matter, its what the user has in mind as almighty God that matters.

But peeps need to know that they can't assume the names of the Bible God to be the only true refernce to the Creator. I am certain that Chineke and Olodumare are true refernces to the creator.

Deep Sight:

^^^ No, no, no, not at all, I just want peeps to learn to be fair and balanced.

Like i said, imo, the origin of these names doesnt even matter, its what the user has in mind as almighty God that matters.

But peeps need to know that they can't assume the names of the Bible God to be the only true refernce to the Creator. I am certain that Chineke and Olodumare are true refernces to the creator.

Olodumare is still being debated in some quarters due to some ambiguity in the meaning.


However, people generally take it to mean one of God's names.

^^^ There we go, darling you! Told you we had no dispute:

Point is just this:

IF you discovered that "Yahweh" was an ancient semitic pagan god, would that mean that all these years you have been worshipping that pagan god?

In my opinion, NO - BECAUSE what you had in mind was the ultimate creator of the universe, and not an idol.

That's why i say its what you have in mind thats important, and not the ancient names.

That's why i'm insisting we gotta leave the muslims alone, regardless of what ALLAH means.

(Although there is proof that it is simply the Arabic word for God)

Deep Sight:

^^^ There we go, darling you! Told you we had no dispute:

Point is just this:

IF you discovered that "Yahweh" was an ancient semitic pagan god, would that mean that all these years you have been worshipping that pagan god?

In my opinion, NO - BECAUSE what you had in mind was the ultimate creator of the universe, and not an idol.

That's why i say its what you have in mind thats important, and not the ancient names.

That's why i'm insisting we gotta leave the muslims alone, regardless of what ALLAH means.

(Although there is proof that it is simply the Arabic word for God)

lets beg your question.

Something being ancient doesnt automatically mean its pagan.

Paganism involves the worship of idols, right?

I hope you see where the fault is with your analogy.

I asked you what was the name of the God Noah worshipped, who told him to build an ark.

and remember, Rachel, Jacob's wife took her household gods with her after she married. Showing a clear distinction between her own god and the God her husband's family worshipped.

btw , I thought you said you went clubbing somewhere- shouldnt you be easing off right now. Surprised to know you're male.

dont know why I keep assuming some males are female on this forum.

deep sight i get ur point
i have neva bothered to argue abt the Allah moon god theory. It jst doesnt make any sense. Jst google the word God and you will see that it has pagan origins in its german roots. The fact that pegans before muhammed called God by Allah or as Yahweh before moses does not mean its the same god in principle and nature. What were the pegans supossed to call thier god, Monkey?

the_seeker:

deep sight i get your point
i have neva bothered to argue abt the Allah moon god theory. It jst doesnt make any sense. Jst google the word God and you will see that it has pagan origins in its german roots. The fact that pegans before muhammed called God by Allah or as Yahweh before moses does not mean its the same god in principle and nature. What were the pegans supossed to call thier god, Monkey?

have u bothered to trace the historical analogy of allah?
This kind of posts make me wonder if some peeps have a brain at all?. . . who was the allah that mohammed's father served? why did allah stop the using annointing oil?

tpia.:

lets beg your question.

Something being ancient doesnt automatically mean its pagan.

Paganism involves the worship of idols, right?

I hope you see where the fault is with your analogy.

I asked you what was the name of the God Noah worshipped, who told him to build an ark.

and remember, Rachel, Jacob's wife took her household gods with her after she married. Showing a clear distinction between her own god and the God her husband's family worshipped.

btw , I thought you said you went clubbing somewhere- shouldnt you be easing off right now. Surprised to know you're male.

dont know why I keep assuming some males are female on this forum.

where is deepsight? I patiently await his response to this post?

tpia.:

lets beg your question.

Something being ancient doesnt automatically mean its pagan.

Paganism involves the worship of idols, right?

I hope you see where the fault is with your analogy.

I asked you what was the name of the God Noah worshipped, who told him to build an ark.

and remember, Rachel, Jacob's wife took her household gods with her after she married. Showing a clear distinction between her own god and the God her husband's family worshipped.

btw , I thought you said you went clubbing somewhere- shouldnt you be easing off right now. Surprised to know you're male.

dont know why I keep assuming some males are female on this forum.

Hi there! I am only just recovering from the bedmatics of this morning. . . how am i going to overcome my sex addiction. . . Damn. . .

Now back to the issues -

You are right: that a god is ancient does not mean it is pagan.

However, i ask you: the established monotheistic religions are Christianity, Judaism and Islam. What are the chances that the "Yahweh"worshipped by the tribes on the arabic peninsula was the monotheistic creator. . . very unlikely. Especially as the bible explicitly states that the tribes around Israel were all heathen and pagan. (Hence the special nature of Israel, and the injunctions by god to wipe out some of these peoples).

No?

Deep Sight:

Hi there! I am only just recovering from the bedmatics of this morning. . . how am i going to overcome my sex addiction. . . Damn. . .

Now back to the issues -

You are right: that a god is ancient does not mean it is pagan.

However, i ask you: the established monotheistic religions are Christianity, Judaism and Islam. What are the chances that the "Yahweh"worshipped by the tribes on the arabic peninsula was the monotheistic creator. . . very unlikely. Especially as the bible explicitly states that the tribes around Israel were all heathen and pagan. (Hence the special nature of Israel, and the injunctions by god to wipe out some of these peoples).

No?

considering ur antecedents . . . , the quality of this post was rather poor and pathetic.

Tpia:


I asked you what was the name of the God Noah worshipped, who told him to build an ark.

and remember, Rachel, Jacob's wife took her household gods with her after she married. Showing a clear distinction between her own god and the God her husband's family worshipped.

Please note that this is not relevant because the issue concerns ascribing names. Thus if "Yahweh" was ascribed to the God of Abraham, Noahm etc, then this should not be a problem, any more than "Allah" being ascribed to that same God!

Get it?  ? ?

noetic15:

considering your antecedents . . . , the quality of this post was rather poor and pathetic.

Abeg, deal with the reasoning and dont worry about my antecedents, Jare:

Here it is again:

However, i ask you: the established monotheistic religions are Christianity, Judaism and Islam. What are the chances that the "Yahweh"worshipped by the tribes on the arabic peninsula was the monotheistic creator. . . very unlikely. Especially as the bible explicitly states that the tribes around Israel were all heathen and pagan. (Hence the special nature of Israel, and the injunctions by god to wipe out some of these peoples).

No?

Deep Sight:

Please note that this is not relevant because the issue concerns ascribing names. Thus if "Yahweh" was ascribed to the God of Abraham, Noahm etc, then this should not be a problem, any more than "Allah" being ascribed to that same God!

Get it?  ? ?

you are definitely missing your own point and the reason for this thread.

You're pointing at pre-Isrealite origins of Judaic monotheism, right?

Isreal started with Abraham, not so?

Noah preceeded Isreal. Noah was a monotheist. What was the name of the God he worshipped?

If you dont know, its ok to admit it. It doesnt add to or subtract from you in any way.

Deep Sight:

Abeg, deal with the reasoning and dont worry about my antecedents, Jare:

Here it is again:

However, i ask you: the established monotheistic religions are Christianity, Judaism and Islam. What are the chances that the "Yahweh"worshipped by the tribes on the arabic peninsula was the monotheistic creator. . . very unlikely. Especially as the bible explicitly states that the tribes around Israel were all heathen and pagan. (Hence the special nature of Israel, and the injunctions by god to wipe out some of these peoples).

No?

is the above a question? can u re-phrase it in simple english?

tpia.:


You're pointing at pre-Isrealite origins of Judaic monotheism, right?

No! ! !

I am pointing at pre-Israelite origins of the word - "Yahweh"! I am stating that that name belonged to some god being worshipped already by surrounding tribes!

God did not reveal HIS name to Noah. He supposedly revealed it to Moses. Thus although you correctly state Noah to be Monotheistic, this is neither here nor there. Because my concern is that a name emerging from the pagan tribes around Israel, was eventuality ascribed to the Israelite God. Does it seem to you a co-incidence that Moses had spent some time with some of those tribes, and even took his wife from their midst? Does it seem to you a co-incidence that the name he[i] hears[/i] from God, as the name of the God of Abraham (& Noah, et all) turns out to be a name well known and well used as the name of a god within the tribe that Moses had spent some time with?

Think!

And at all events remember the core argument: If It were proved to you today that the word "Yahweh" belonged to an ancient pagan deity, would that change the fact that you have always conceived yourself as worshipping ALMIGHTY GOD?

This, for the umpteenth time, is directed AT the allegations regarding the source of the word "Allah"

Point is: DOES IT MATTER? ? ?

Deep Sight:

No! ! !

I am pointing at pre-Israelite origins of the word - "Yahweh"! I am stating that that name belonged to some god being worshipped already by surrounding tribes!

God did not reveal HIS name to Noah. He supposedly revealed it to Moses. Thus although you correctly state Noah to be Monotheistic, this is neither here nor there. Because my concern is that a name emerging from the pagan tribes around Israel, was eventuality ascribed to the Israelite God. Does it seem to you a co-incidence that Moses had spent some time with some of those tribes, and even took his wife from their midst? Does it seem to you a co-incidence that the name he[i] hears[/i] from God, as the name of the God of Abraham (& Noah, et all) turns out to be a name well known and well used as the name of a god within the tribe that Moses had spent some time with?

Think!

And at all events remember the core argument: If It were proved to you today that the word "Yahweh" belonged to an ancient pagan deity, would that change the fact that you have always conceived yourself as worshipping ALMIGHTY GOD?

This, for the umpteenth time, is directed AT the allegations regarding the source of the word "Allah"

Point is: DOES IT MATTER? ? ?

first things first

who is Yahweh?

Describe who and what Yahweh is.

My reference to Noah is to show you the God who Moses reintroduced to the Isrealites wasnt a new concept . The bible itself states worship of God- ignore the issue of names for one moment- preceeded Abraham.

You say evidence has been discovered of a pre-Isrealite God referred to as Yahweh.

explain what you're seeing as a contradiction here. Do the findings you're referring to say Yahweh was worshipped among a pantheon of other gods?



lets assume that's so. ( just speculating here).

Consider the Yoruba word Olodumare or Olorun (I dont know your tribe) which refers to God. Did the Yorubas know of a Supreme God before the arrival of Europeans? Can you think about this before answering.

Does it seem to you a co-incidence that Moses had spent some time with some of those tribes, and even took his wife from their midst? Does it seem to you a co-incidence that the name he hears from God, as the name of the God of Abraham (& Noah, et all) turns out to be a name well known and well used as the name of a god within the tribe that Moses had spent some time with?

where did the Isrealites come from before they landed in Egypt ?

why is the idea of Moses interacting with other non-Egyptian peoples so strange to you ?






some further reading for you from this same wiki:

The Midianites also seem to have been centered around a cultic site at Mount Horeb. This has led some scholars to speculate that the worship of YHWH (a name of God in Judaism) may have actually begun among the Midianites to be adapted later by the Israelites, a claim contested by many Christian scholars. Josephus, in "Antiquities Of The Jews," BK IV, Chapter VI, clearly contradicts this claim as he portrays in extensive narrative the seduction of young men of the Israelite Army, during the time of Moses, by Midianite women who enticed the Israelites through lewdness and idolatry to worship their gods in return for their remaining with them. An Egyptian inscription refers to "Yhw in the land of the Shasu" as a tribe or people living in what would later become Midianite territory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midian

This, I believe in my own opinion, can be traced to Gen 11:1-9 which tells us the story of the tower of Babel which laid the foundation for language diversity. This made them spread across the face of the earth but this does not imply that they all stopped worshipping God as all of them were either in the ark of Noah or born to those inside of them. As such, in Exodus 3:14, "and God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM, "
The point here is if Moses had been, for example, in the Yorubaland, speaking Yoruba, he would either have been spoken to in Yoruba or on his own translated what he heard into Yoruba because he would have obviously had to relay his experience to those around him. This would have been possible either way because it was the same God who spoke to him that gave the different people the languages they spoke and as such who could understand and communicate in each better than Him.
In conclusion, it doesn't mean the name of the Lord is derived from an ancient language but it simply means the Lord reaches to each of us in the easiest way for us to understand Him.

yes Yahweh is a pagan god like every god in every religion
paganism began worshiping gods, Abrahamic religions only hijacked the god ideas and refined it such that modern religionists have lost the true sense of the god idea

Yahweh is a mountain god also known as 'el shaddai'- god of mountains in old Hebrew
like allah is a pagan head god of the arabs before mohammed