DeSepiero:

Let me avoid hate arguments. It seems you don't want to understand my point. You just want to rubbish whatever I try to say.
Now you'd likely say that one can't die in an act of sin.

Why nah? I want to understand the premise on which someone can commit sin and die in action nah, that's why i said create a scenario to help me understand.

No one lies without a motive of covering or having an intent of misdirecting someone.

No one steals without the thought of covetousness infiltrating the mind first

No one commits fornication or adultery without lusting and fantasizing about it first.

No one cheats, gives or takes bribe without the thoughts covetousness or doing something illigal.


No one commits any sin without a premonition of wrong doing inside.

No one commits sin spontaneously, especially for anyone who claims to be a Christian. It has to be planned in such a way that it will be well concealed from others.

I dont know how a Christian can commit sin spontaneously and then drop dead without repenting. Something he took time to plan and strategize.
Otio.

analice107:


I dont know how a Christian can commit sin spontaneously and then drop dead without repenting. Something he took time to plan and strategize.
Otio.

It could be by accident or an illness or even in a fight.

DeSepiero:


Christianity threatens its believers with eternal torture in a lake of fire upon death if they default.

How on earth does that NOT plant fear in the poor believers?

Delusion can be worst of all diseases!

Believers don't go to hell, but unbelievers who have REJECTED the good news of what Jesus has done on their behalf!

promise10:

Delusion can be worst of all diseases!
Believers don't go to hell, but unbelievers who have REJECTED the good news of what Jesus has done on their behalf!

can you explain this a bit more?

if a believer in Jesus sins and dies before asking for forgiveness

does he go to hell or not?

that's because you make it sound like I can sin anyhow, so long I do not reject the good news, I'm going to heaven

DeSepiero:


It could be by accident or an illness or even in a fight.

Ok, now i get you. Lets create a scenario.

John is a Christian, he is permitted to get angry because he is human, but not permitted to allow his anger get the better part of him. But, he got careless spiritually and the adversary took advantage of that and attacked him, by stirring up an unreasonable person against him. The unreasonable person insults his mother, and hits him on his nose, he gets really upset and hits back, the unreasonable person picks a bottle and smashes his head with it, John collapses and dies.

Do you mean in a case like this? If this is what you mean, God won't send John to hell.

He is a Just God who sees our hearts and weighs our actions by our hearts contents (Motives).

analice107:

Ok, now i get you. Lets create a scenario.

John is a Christian, he is permitted to get angry because he is human, but not permitted to allow his anger get the better part of him. But, he got careless spiritually and the adversary took advantage of that and attacked him, by stirring up an unreasonable person against him. The unreasonable person insults his mother, and hits him on his nose, he gets really upset and hits back, the unreasonable person picks a bottle and smashes his head with it, John collapses and dies.

Do you mean in a case like this? If this is what you mean, God won't send John to hell.

He is a Just God who sees our hearts and weighs our actions by our hearts contents (Motives).

Now you get me.
Story on point. I may agree with your analogy (even though John got spiritually careless and also disobeyed the 'turn your left cheek' teaching).

John may have also 'gotten careless spiritually and the adversary took advantage of that and attacked him', by stirring up a promiscuous person towards him. He involves in sexual sin with this lady, her husband catches them in the act, a fist fight leads to John's death.

John may have also 'gotten careless spiritually and the adversary took advantage of that and attacked him', by tempting him into stealing his boss's money which his boss kept carelessly and John needed money (everyone needs money). In a hurry to leave the office and get home gets knocked down by a truck and he died.

What would be John's fate in these scenarios?

promise10:

Delusion can be worst of all diseases!

Believers don't go to hell, but unbelievers who have REJECTED the good news of what Jesus has done on their behalf!

Believers don't go to hell?
Kindly clarify.
Who's a believer please?

DeSepiero:


Now you get me.
Story on point. I may agree with your analogy (even though John got spiritually careless and also disobeyed the 'turn your left cheek' teaching).

John may have also 'gotten careless spiritually and the adversary took advantage of that and attacked him', by stirring up a promiscuous person towards him. He involves in sexual sin with this lady, her husband catches them in the act, a fist fight leads to John's death.

John may have also 'gotten careless spiritually and the adversary took advantage of that and attacked him', by tempting him into stealing his boss's money which his boss kept carelessly and John needed money (everyone needs money). In a hurry to leave the office and get home gets knocked down by a truck and he died.

What would be John's fate in these scenarios?

Hahahahahahahaha. Very good analogies, but your last two are premeditated. Theres no way John will engage in a sexual act with a married women spontaneously. It starts from them getting close first. exchange phone numbers, calls, chats, flirting, lusting and then planning to meet secretly for the act. From the start, If John is a believer with the Holy Spirit in him, he would have been warned over and over.

Trap, you are walking into a trap. The Holy Spirit will throw in scriptures about adulterous women, the danger of allowing adulterous woman to lure him. John would ve made up his mind to commit that sin, hence, pay deaf ears to the Holy Spirit's convictions. There's no excuse here.

The second scenario is greed, covetousness and the lust of flesh. It also takes planning, its not spontaneous. No an excuse.

analice107:


Hahahahahahahaha. Very good analogies, but your last two are premeditated. Theres no way John will engage in a sexual act with a married women spontaneously. It starts from them getting close first. exchange phone numbers, calls, chats, flirting, lusting and then planning to meet secretly for the act. From the start, If John is a believer with the Holy Spirit in him, he would have been warned over and over.

Trap, you are walking into a trap. The Holy Spirit will throw in scriptures about adulterous women, the danger of allowing adulterous woman to lure him. John would ve made up his mind to commit that sin, hence, pay deaf ears to the Holy Spirit's convictions. There's no excuse here.

The second scenario is greed, covetousness and the lust of flesh. It also takes planning, its not spontaneous. No an excuse.

all those CAN be spontaneous

analice107:


Hahahahahahahaha. Very good analogies, but your last two are premeditated. Theres no way John will engage in a sexual act with a married women spontaneously. It starts from them getting close first. exchange phone numbers, calls, chats, flirting, lusting and then planning to meet secretly for the act. From the start, If John is a believer with the Holy Spirit in him, he would have been warned over and over.

Trap, you are walking into a trap. The Holy Spirit will throw in scriptures about adulterous women, the danger of allowing adulterous woman to lure him. John would ve made up his mind to commit that sin, hence, pay deaf ears to the Holy Spirit's convictions. There's no excuse here.

The second scenario is greed, covetousness and the lust of flesh. It also takes planning, its not spontaneous. No an excuse.

You don't necessarily have to dispute the possibility of these stuff happening.

Agreed! The sexual act won't possibly happen spontaneously. It will happen as you described. He makes up his mind to commit the sin.

Second, he may also plan for the 2nd scenario though that's not really the case here.

In the end, if it happens the way you've explained that it would rather happen, which is a little gradual and premeditated, what becomes Johns fate?

hopefulLandlord:


all those CAN be spontaneous

He won't just admit

DeSepiero:


You don't necessarily have to dispute the possibility of these stuff happening.

Agreed! The sexual act won't possibly happen spontaneously. It will happen as you described. He makes up his mind to commit the sin.

Second, he may also plan for the 2nd scenario though that's not really the case here.

In the end, if it happens the way you've explained that it would rather happen, which is a little gradual and premeditated, what becomes Johns fate?

This takes us back to an allusion someone made here down the line using HIV. How many times does it a take someone to have unprotected sex with a high risk person before he contacts HIV? Once? But, what if you were warned, but lust wont let you?


Now, lets look at it this way; How many times does John needs to steal to be a thief?

Like i said, John cant just happen to steal without first harbouring the thoughts of stealing in his mind. And the Holy Spirit through his conscience will warn him, its disobedience to the voice of the Holy Spirit that will eventually plunge him into theft. It will be more than one sin instead of just theft.

To steal, Jonh must of necessity have a motive, he must be a greedy fellow, (lack of contentment). He has to be Covetous, then lust after what he wants to use the money for. Three sins.

My dear, Sins throng themselves along.

You think he will be guiltless before God?

sexual immorality is even the worst as it takes a lot and much longer to plan. All along the Holy Spirit is there speaking, Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it... BUT, INSENSITIVITY TO THE SPIRIT.

analice107:


This takes us back to an allusion someone made here down the line using HIV. How many times does it a take someone to have unprotected sex with a high risk person before he contacts HIV? Once? But, what if you were warned, but lust wont let you?


Now, lets look at it this way; How many times does John needs to steal to be a thief?

Like i said, John cant just happen to steal without first harbouring the thoughts of stealing in his mind. And the Holy Spirit through his conscience will warn him, its disobedience to the voice of the Holy Spirit that will eventually plunge him into theft. It will be more than one sin instead of just theft.

To steal, Jonh must of necessity have a motive, he must be a greedy fellow, (lack of contentment). He has to be Covetous, then lust after what he wants to use the money for. Three sins.

My dear, Sins throng themselves along.

You think he will be guiltless before God?

sexual immorality is even the worst as it takes a lot and much longer to plan. All along the Holy Spirit is there speaking, Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it... BUT, INSENSITIVITY TO THE SPIRIT.

John can't just sin, it won't just happen , blah blah blah !!! Fine I've heard. When he finally does and dies without repenting like in the scenarios I tried to create (& your corrections) he goes to hell. Right?

DeSepiero:


John can't just sin, it won't just happen , blah blah blah !!! Fine I've heard. When he finally does and dies without repenting like in the scenarios I tried to create (& your corrections) he goes to hell. Right?

Yes nah. He has disobeyed God's obstructions. But wait oo. John is not guiltless.

How many sins did it take for Adam to die spiritually? ONE.

SO, yes, if John disobeys and dies in his sinful state, Opkari.

Sin kills the spirit in man, and its that part of man that enters heaven, as no flesh can enter. So now John has died spiritually, which part of him will then enter heaven?

The Road is Straight and Narrow and few shall find it...

DeSepiero:


John can't just sin, it won't just happen , blah blah blah !!! Fine I've heard. When he finally does and dies without repenting like in the scenarios I tried to create (& your corrections) he goes to hell. Right?

Yes nah. He has disobeyed God's instructions. But wait oo. John is not guiltless.

How many sins did it take for Adam to die spiritually? ONE.

SO, yes, if John disobeys and dies in his sinful state, Opkari.

Sin kills the spirit in man, and its that part of man that enters heaven, as no flesh can enter. So now John has died spiritually, which part of him will then enter heaven?

The Road is Straight and Narrow and few shall find it...

analice107:


Yes nah. He has disobeyed God's obstructions. But wait oo. John is not guiltless.

How many sins did it take for Adam to die spiritually? ONE.

SO, yes, if John disobeys and dies in his sinful state, Opkari.

Sin kills the spirit in man, and its that part of man that enters heaven, as no flesh can enter. So now John has died spiritually, which part of him will then enter heaven?

The Road is Straight and Narrow and few shall find it...

That's good
Thank you for that response. Milady

DeSepiero:


That's good
Thank you for that response. Milady

You r welcome Milord.

I Respect your calm disposition, unlike these atheists here. It was nice chatting with you. God bless (You don't have to say Amen) i have said it for you.

analice107:


You r welcome Milord.

I Respect your calm disposition, unlike these atheists here. It was nice chatting with you. God bless (You don't have to say Amen) i have said it for you.

Twas nice chatting with you too.
Muchas gracias

DeSepiero:

Twas nice chatting with you too. Muchas gracias

Arravadecci boss.

honourhim:

And if you die and discover that you have deceived yourself and are actually in hell fire, what will you do?

If there is a hell fire, where non believers are sent to, then you can bet there'll be a lot of scientists and bright elites there. The place would have been transformed to an Utopia by now ;-)

Truthman83:

I have noticed that compared to 6 months ago,my fear of death and hell fire is diminishing. This didn't come so easy after losing my faith. At first I was a bit scared but now that I don't think I have a blissful eternity waiting for me. I am somehow more comfortable with death than I usually was.

For the first time I traveled from Abuja to Lagos without praying for safe journey to and fro. I was completely at rest for the first time in my life. Usually I panic and spit out "blood of Jesus" at every given chance. I normally have sleepless night journeys but now it is completely different. Life can be beautiful for those who let it.

Christianity seems to planted in us the fear of death of death.It is seen as a divine punishment,rather than help us accept it as a very natural and neutral part of being alive.

I thought my fears would increase as a non-christian but instead I am enjoying a fantastic peace of mind.

Christianity is supposedly all about removing the fear of death for a promise of eternal bliss, but then it also says heaven is just a hope not a guaranty. One bible verse gives you hope and another one completely nolifies it. The Bible also failed to give the minimum requirement for a believer to make heaven. It seem to be a never ending cycle of fear

I want to thank the Atheist on this forum for relentlessly standing against the wave of religion,otherwise I probably will still be out there nursing my ex state of mind. Thank you!

No pain in death but in dying