Fellow Nairaland muslims: You know I love you all  Islamic apostasy warrants a death sentence from the imam to the apostate.  My Islamic brothers and sisters, what adequate punishment will you suggest in this 21st century for apostates besides the normal death sentence?.  Muslims living in the West are embarrassed by this death sentence. The West values the freedoms of thought and speech, Islam does not, and these virtues have never blossomed under Islamic rule. Consequently, when asked about the Islamic law for apostates many Western Muslims do their best to cover up Islam’s edict. Motivated by conviction, or shame, they make up various defenses and say whatever they can to put your mind at ease and make Islam more acceptable to a naïve, gullible, and ignorant Western audience. It is not difficult to make the Quran dance and say what you want it to say.

Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ارتداد, irtidād or ridda‎) is commonly defined as the rejection in word or deed of their former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam.
The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) all agree that apostasy is a sin as long as the individual does not do so in ignorance or under duress.[1][2] They also differentiate between harmful apostasy and harmless apostasy[3] (also known as major and minor apostasy).[1] According to Wael Hallaq nothing of the apostasy law are derived from the Qur'an,[4]
Some Islamic jurists, such as Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi,[5] Maliki jurist Abu al-Walid al-Baji, and Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah,[6] and some contemporary Islamic jurists, such as Shafi`i Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa[7][8] and Shi'a Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,[9] argued or issued fatwas that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances.[10][11][12][13] Some groups within Islam such as the Shi'a Ismaili reject death for apostasy altogether.[citation needed]
Some prominent contemporary examples of death sentences threatened or issued for apostasy include Abdul Rahman, an Afghan convert to Christianity who was arrested and jailed on the charge of rejecting Islam in 2006 but later released as mentally incompetent.[14]

Aloy.Emeka, I am not a mind reader, but from your established modus operandi and perception of Islam, it is hard press to believe that you have any good intention in your heart in stock for Islam. Hence, I say your love for muslims, does not reach even the base of your tongue.

You failed to bolden the fact that whoever you quoted pointed to the fact that apostasy was even categorized as major and minor, where major is "harmful" to the body of Islam, and that there is no Quranic proof that all apostasy must be killed.

I guess that you live in Nigeria, or in the West that you are talking about? Let me say this to you; the american natives that I know in Islam, do not talk with their words kept under their tongue, unlike the foreign born. So none of them will lie about Islam. I know. I talk to one at least, daily!

They will not be pandering to anyone; maybe foreign borns, but not native born.

You said you are no mind reader yet you accuse me of not loving you guys enough.  Which one is it?. That's very unusual from a man of your timber and caliber. I am sorry if you feel offended by my questions but I gotta know. I am trying to understand islam very well. What is major and minor apostasy and what are the punishments?. Do you think the Muslim world should adjust the capital punishment for Islamic apostates?

You must be joking, adjust or change God's law ? Barbaric indeed, do you think we are christians, Islam remains tact

@everyone- Aloy wants to create yet another nuisance here thats why he is bond to bring topic like this, he wants arguement to ensue between muslim living in the west and the contrary, caution !

Really ?

I believe it was a typography error due to fast typing by uplawal


@tpia, people's view does not change Islam, Islam remains intact, An arab is not better than a hausa except by his deeds and piety, a hausa is not better than yoruba except by deeds and piety. Animals worship God too so a goat is better than an unbeliever in the sight of God. You can laugh if you so wish

Abuzola:

Really ?

I believe it was a typography error due to fast typing by uplawal


@tpia, people's view does not change Islam, Islam remains intact, An arab is not better than a hausa except by his deeds and piety, a hausa is not better than yoruba except by deeds and piety. Animals worship God too so a goat is better than an unbeliever in the sight of God. You can laugh if you so wish

@ bolded

are you really this blind?   Na your life sha, e no concern me. Dont start opening threads about NL/Nigerian girls who decieved you later oh!





@ the rest of your preaching

are you talking to me, aloy emeka or uplawal?

wetin concern me as I didnt even express any opinion on the matter?

This was what[b] I[/b] responded to:

he wants arguement to ensue between muslim living in the west and the contrary, caution !

God's willing no girl will deceive me.

What i mean by muslim in western nation is muslim in Britain, New zealand, U.S and co and not ur assupmption.

My simple question to Muslim extremists, like Abuzola, who believe rejecting Islam is grounds for being killed is this:

What is the punishment for refusing to kill an apostate?

Until people like Abuzola, noise makers who think killing was invented just after Islam was established, actually kill an apostate as a show of devotion to what they believe, I will consider them confused souls who promote views too barbaric for them to carry out!

@Aloy~Emeka,

You are kiddingly and shamelessly very cunning: after being publically defeated as you last time tried to established a lie of Honor Killing and attach it to Islam, you came back here with Apostate issue. Hmm. Keep trying to dent and defame Islam and Muslims; you'll never succeed. I assure you, inshaAllah. Islam remains the only true religion on this planet. And I'll start praying for you; may Allah, the Exalted, guide you to the right and straight path, ameeen.

@All,

This issue is being misunderstood by many people around Islamic countries. But it need closer cross-checking and examining. It's only and only doing that that could prove the real case in point.

Get lots to say, actually, but before then I'll like to hear from our Christian brethren: supply to us mentione of Apostate in your Scriptures--OT and NT? And its punishment? Please forgive me if I am off-topic. . .just trying to address the question at stake from a certain direction.

Thanks

aly.emeka: « #2 on: Today at 03:31:08 AM »

You said you are no mind reader yet you accuse me of not loving you guys enough. Which one is it?. That's very unusual from a man of your timber and caliber. I am sorry if you feel offended by my questions but I gotta know. I am trying to understand islam very well.

read my response, again. i simply drawn inferences by your established stand on NL, and the emocons. and i believe that i am right.

What is major and minor apostasy and what are the punishments?

apostasy is wrong but not with a carpetted wholesale punishment. in islam, everything has a ruling allowing exception. the greatest sin is not being muslim, even then a muslim can deny islam by tongue, if he fears harms from the hands of powerful entity, in as long as his heart (unseen) is not denying islam. another example, a person may consume alcohol or eat pork (may Allah not put us in the condition to consume them), if preservation of life is assured by both or either. so an apostasy can be experiences, and such an apostate can come back to islam; the reason Allah says those who enter islam and go out of it, and return to it, and then leave it and go back, agin to it and then leave it, ! if the first abandonement results in death, then the verse is defeated and no action can defeat any part of Quran. all apostasy is minor in the sense of its enemity to islam, except the apostasy where the apostates picks up arms against islam and muslims, whereby the prevailing condition is kill or be killed; and islam does not allow muslim to start a war, but when you engage an enemy for the pleasure of Allah, there is no backing down, or turning your back as a coward, except where you are readjusting your strategy of war. so a major apostate is your enemy, an army of shaitan waylaying a believer from the practice of islam, whreby the apostate is now a toxin against your life of islam!

Do you think the Muslim world should adjust the capital punishment for Islamic apostates?

Allah has ordained what He has ordained. apostate who is not a major apostate against your life/living, then nothing is ordered against him/her. however, if he is determined to kill you or hurt you, then your hand is released against him/her; a natural thing or reaction, when you are under pressure. if a man comes to my house and wishes to take my property or a life, then i am allowed to bear the full force of my energy and hope to preserve my life and lives of my loved ones on him/her; this is the same thing.
should you adjust your process in this case if you are in my shows, allowing the man to take all our possessions and your women folks too, even turning you to a girl? i will die first before a person takes a single thing that belong to me, except the thing wants to go with him! until then, i will defend my humanity with my sweat and blood and life if need be!


@RickyBlacK: since apostasy is not a sin that people should be uniformly killed for, except the apostate who takes up arm to kill you, then there is no need to bring about the question you had posted above; an apostate who wishes to kill you, if you wish to preserve your life, as in all conditions of somebody threatening your existence, you should threaten their existence. so it is kill or be killed.

Doesn’t Islam promote violence, bloodshed and brutality since apostasy is punished with capital punishment?


NOTE: "Islam does not permit taking the life of any innocent peron - ever. Changing one's mind about beliefs is not, by itself, incurring any form of physical punishment according to Islamic Law" - Yusuf Estes


It was only in the last few years I learned there is killing going on in some countries over the issue of family members and others converting to other religions.
Yes! - even in these days! Egypt has cases of Christians killing someone for going to Islam, as well as the other way around.
This is also true, according to the newspapers about someone in Israel going to Islam last year.
And there is even a law in Chanai, India forbidden the public declaration of faith for anyone converting to Islam.


1. Islam for everyone
Islam always deals with everyone in Justice and Equity. Oppression of any person, regardless of their religious belief is totally forbidden in the Islamic State on all levels.
Islam means "willing submission to the Will of God in peaceful obedience", and as such, cannot be forced upon anyone, nor can anyone be converted to Islam against their will.
When the laws of Islam are set in place they exist as a trust to protect God-given rights of everyone, under God's Laws.
Islamic State provides advantages and benefits for all who live within its domain, as well as admonition and punishment for those who violate this trust and oppress others.
2. Apostasy in the time of the prophet
During the time of our prophet, peace be upon him, there were some who "left Islam" and then they were allowed to come back if they wanted to or stay away if they so desired.
One example is from the Muslims who migrated in the first migration to Ethiopia and one of them left Islam, became a Christian (the people of Abyssinia were Christians at that time) and then even told people there he was an "author" of the Quran.
Of course such actions are most despicable and worthy of some kind of reprimand, especially considering the extent of the lies against the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
Yet, nothing was done to this man by the Muslims. His wife, Zainab, could not tolerate his lies and his turning his back against the truth of Islam and she returned back to the Muslims in Arabia.

Other examples include those who entered Islam in the presence of our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, yet when they were returned back to their people (during an agreement between the pagans and Muhammad, peace be upon him) some of them reverted back to their old pagan religion.
Some of them did come back to Islam again later on after Islam came to be the governing state. In this case we observe what can happen in the case of the one who is in Islam and then for whatever reason decides not to stay.

Yet another example that occurred at the time of our blessed prophet, peace be upon him, was that of some who pretended they wanted to be Muslims only to take advantage of the believers, gain some worldly benefits and then abused and slaughtered an entire group of shepherds that memorized the entire Quran, who were caring for them.
They killed them in cold blood and took everything for themselves. The prophet, peace be upon him, was very disturbed over this and ordered them to be severely punished and left to die without any food or water.
3. The proper punishment
From this example we learn how to deal with traitors and terrorists who have no intention of doing anything except evil and spreading fitnah (evil and terror) throughout the land.
Over the centuries since the inception of Islam, we can find cases of people leaving Islam and what was their example and what the prevailing jurists decided in their particular situation.
Most all of these were not punished except in the cases of treason, other acts of violence or for propagating corruption, dissention and promoting evil along with their apostasy.
Those who were found to be causing sedition or of being enemy spies during times of war or advocating the overthrow of Islamic government could understandably be court-martialed and executed.
4. Nowadays
Now let us consider the realities of balance in Islam in light of today's world.
There is no existing Islamic state with a khilafah. This means the hudud (punishment according to Islam) of the Shar'iah (Islamic Law) cannot be appropriately applied.
Additionally, anyone not being a citizen living in an Islamic state could hardly be tried and convicted by the state in a proper manner.
5. Treatment of conversion and apostasy with other civilizations and societies
a. Roman civilization
The Roman civilization would not tolerate someone who accepted the benefits of citizenship and the turned against the government.
These people were made short work of as entertainment for the people, while gladiators tortured and killed them for public sport. (see: Encyclopedia Britanitca; Rome).
b. Jewish incidents
During the years after Jesus, peace be upon him, occurred in the south of Arabia in Yemen. Yusuf Dhu Nawas, a Jewish leader in Yemen, attacked the Christians of Najran ordering them to embrace Judaism or be burned in a pit of fire.
Estimates put the number of those killed between 20,000 and 40,000.
c. Catholic church
The Catholic Church at one time forced people to enter into their religion at the point of the sword and with torture chambers (see: Crusades, 1095 to 1200 A.D.; and Inquisition, 1492 to 1520 A.D.)
Those who wished to remain or change to Islam or Judaism or even another form of Christianity were put to the vilest forms of tortures and even executed.
However, this cannot be said to, in any way, represent the teachings of Jesus or the New Testament.

To conclude, Islam comes from Allah, the actual Creator and Sustainer of the universe.

Islam provides for all situations and dictates what are the rights and limitations.

This all seeks to provide a safe environment for all people to learn the correct message of Almighty Allah and how to live as upright citizens in a place of pleace and mutual cooperation for all humans, regardless of their beliefs.

If a person wants to accept this belief and way of life, then they should be free to do so. If another person would reject this even though the evidence is clearly in favor of Islam, they are free to make this choice but would live in the society still receiving the benefits and services available, such as food, shelter, clothing, protection and charity.

However, they would pay a larger tax on their wealth due to their not being conscripted to serve in the military and so on.

Conditions are really what bring about the different rulings on dealing with those who enter Islam and then leave it, with the clear intention of bringing about dissention and unrest amongst the people.

Also, those who seek to convert people away from Islam into other faiths or to destroy the Islamic government would naturally be considered as traitors and then dealt with as such.

All knowledge is with Allah and for any mistakes I seek Allah's forgiveness and beg the pardon of anyone whom I may have offended in this writing.

Again, may Allah reward you for your effort and accept from you and all of us, ameen.
Salam alaykum,
Yusuf Estes

olabowale:

Doesn’t Islam promote violence, bloodshed and brutality since apostasy is punished with capital punishment?


NOTE: "Islam does not permit taking the life of any innocent peron - ever. Changing one's mind about beliefs is not, by itself, incurring any form of physical punishment according to Islamic Law" - Yusuf Estes

What did the quran say about apostates?. Muslims around the world do not live by the dictates of Yusuf Estes. The quotation is also flawed because it claims that islam does not take the life of an innocent person. Should the apostate be regarded as a GUILTY person and what right has another person to take the life of another because he or she is guilty of something like adultery?. Don't you think it's time to revise the quran, Olabowale?

muhsin:

@Aloy~Emeka,

You are kiddingly and shamelessly very cunning: after being publically defeated as you last time tried to established a lie of Honor Killing and attach it to Islam, you came back here with Apostate issue. Hmm. Keep trying to dent and defame Islam and Muslims; you'll never succeed. I assure you, inshaAllah. Islam remains the only true religion on this planet. And I'll start praying for you; may Allah, the Exalted, guide you to the right and straight path, ameeen.

@All,

This issue is being misunderstood by many people around Islamic countries. But it need closer cross-checking and examining. It's only and only doing that that could prove the real case in point.

Get lots to say, actually, but before then I'll like to hear from our Christian brethren: supply to us mentione of Apostate in your Scriptures--OT and NT? And its punishment? Please forgive me if I am off-topic. . .just trying to address the question at stake from a certain direction.

Thanks

Why should I defame islam if there is nothing to hide in Islam?. As a matter of fact, you should be happy that I am interested in Islam. Just convince me that your religion is not barbaric and I will convert.

Many Muslims today practice an ironic form of idolatry (in Islamic terminology, shirk, the one sin Allah does not forgive). We, Muslims, criticize other religions for not being truly monotheistic, yet so many of us are guilty of another, more subtle form of shirk: we worship our scholars instead of Allah! We commit the sin for which other people are condemned by God in the Qur'an:

"They have taken as lords besides Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only one God. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner unto Him!” [9:31]

Now, most classical commentators of the Qur'an agree that the grave transgression alluded to here is not the literal worship of the learned people. According to Tirmidhi, the Holy Prophet was asked to explain this verse by Adi ibn Hatim, a convert (or apostate) from Christianity, and he confirmed that the sin was the people, "considering lawful what their priest declared lawful, even though it was forbidden by Allah." (Al-Jami, 44:9;IJ).

I believe that many Muslims are reluctant to speak up because many "Islamic" cultures today encourage docility and teach to unquestioningly accept the decisions of "qualified" scholars. This is a new phenomenon; in the time of Muhammad (s), ideas were only supported after they had been proven to be in harmony with the Qur'an. Scholars could not just pull rank, as they were expected to be able to argue their cases. In fact, in a famous incident of Islamic history, a humble woman of Medina publicly corrected the Caliph. One day, Hazrat Umar (RA) was announcing a change in the rule mahr, when the woman in the crowd suddenly stopped him in his track by loudly quoting a verse of the Qur'an which contradicted his proposal. He had to relent, saying, "The women of Medina know the Qur'an better than Umar." So, it is time for Muslims to question the imams and scholars if they deviate from the Qur'an and hadiths that do not contradict the Qur'an. We must not only be satisfied by the answer of the scholars, but we must verify the source of their references. Remember, if Hazrath Umar (RA) can make a mistake, ordinary scholars and ordinary people like us also can make greater mistakes.

The Qur'an and the sayings of the Prophet (s) require Muslims to think critically. Pagans are repeatedly berated for not questioning, for not using reason, even being compared to dumb animals on several occasions!

"When it is said unto them: 'Follow that which Allah has revealed:' they say: 'Nay! We shall follow the ways of our fathers.' What! Even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?, Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no
sense.” [2:170-171]


"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the
Book, ” [3:7]

"Will they not then ponder on the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found herein much incongruity.” [4:83]

So, the principle established here is that (1) Muslims are required to think critically and not blindly accept the authority of their scholars, and (2) that the clear message of the Qur'an is to be preferred to any isolated law interpretation which contradicts the Qur'an's clear spirit.

The Qur'an teaches that human beings are individually responsible. So, I believe that Allah would not forgive my sins on the Day of Judgment even if my sins were the result of following the advice of a certain Imam. I would not be able to hide behind any Imam or behind his fatwa even if coming from the most respected and revered Imam of any time. Therefore, views expressed here are my opinions based on the references given. I do not claim to be a scholar, but there are sometimes cases where the violation of the Qur'an is so self-evident that all Muslims can see them.

I believe that inhuman law of apostasy has nothing to do with Islam of the Prophet (s) and it is an interpolation into Islam by fanatics among us and the selfish rulers. There are many reasons for me to believe that execution for apostasy is a manufactured law rather than divine law.

Holy Prophet (s) spent his entire life fighting in defense of fundamental human rights that everybody should be free to choose his religion; no one must be physically forced to change religion. Prophet (s) struggled with the Meccan establishment to have the freedom to invite non-believers to Islam. This was consistent with the practices of all other Prophets.

The Qur'an states:

", There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is here forth distinct from error, ”[2:256]

In the light of the above verse, a person has to be insane to belief that Islam prescribes execution for apostasy.

The Qur'an further states:

" Say (Muhammad it is) truth from Lord of all. Whosoever will, let him believe,
and whosoever will, LET him disbelieve.” [18:29]

In no uncertain terms, Allah commands Prophet to allow people to believe and disbelieve. If the Shariah recommends to kill an apostate, this law cannot be Islamic because it contradicts the above two verses.

The Qur'an further states:

"And so, O Prophet, exhort them, thy task is ONLY to exhort; thou canst NOT compel them to believe.” [88:21-22]

"Thy duty is to make the message reach them; it is OUR PART to call them to
account." [13:40]

"Call thou (all mankind) unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in MOST KINDLY MANNER, ” [16:125]

While the Qur'an commands the Prophet (s) not to compel people to believe in Islam and invite people with the most kind manner and words, fanatics among us threaten people with death mercilessly to keep them in the Muslim Ummah as hypocrites as if the dishonest hypocrites are better than honest apostates. It is a most heinous crime against Islam and Prophet (s) to manufacture inhuman law of execution of apostate. If the Qur'anic verses tell the Prophet not to compel people to believe in Islam (88:22) and the responsibility to call disbelievers to account rests with God only (1:40), the law of execution of apostates is of human origin.

Initial reluctance of the people of Arabia to accept Islam disturbed Prophet (s). Then the following verse was revealed:

"And had your Lord willed, whoever in the earth would have believed all together, will you then coerce people to become believers?” [10:99]

According to the above verse, even God will not coerce people to become Muslims or remain as Muslim once a person accepts Islam. So, Muslims must condemn the law of apostasy and save innocent Muslims becoming intolerant and violent by the henious indoctrination by fanatics among us because Allah says:

"Who can be more wicked than the one who invent a lie against God,, ” [6:93]

So, religious belief is a personal matter. It is God alone --not the state or religious authorities--who know what is in the heart of the people. If the highest human authority, Prophet (s), cannot call anyone to account for belief or disbelief, no sane person can believe that religious scholars and the state have the authority to execute people for their personal belief.

The Qur'an states:

"A section of the People of the Book say: 'Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, Bur reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back." [3:72]

A section of People of the Book used a tactic to create doubt among the Muslims in the hope that some of them might thereby be beguiled into repudiating Islam. How could it be possible for non-Muslims to have enacted this plan to entice Muslims to believe one day and reject next, if death was the penalty for apostasy? This tactic of a group of People of the Book mentioned in the Qur’an exposes apostasy law of the Muslim fanatics as un-Islamic. In spite of the deceptive behavior, the above verse cautions Muslims that “perchance they may themselves turn back” truly to Islam. The Qur’an does not rule to kill the apostates.

Abdullah b.Ubayy b.Salul was the leader of the munafiqun (hypocrites). But Prophet (s) took no action against him. Prophet prayed for him and stayed at the grave until he was buried. Those fanatics among us must explain the reason for Prophet (s) not executing the known hypocrites like Abdullah b.Ubayy. Ubbay lived until death plotting to destroy Islam and Prophet knew it. He was not executed for apostasy. This suggests that apostasy law is not a divine law but interpolation by fanatics among us.

Another verse states:

"Those who believe, then reject Faith, then believe (again) and again reject Faith, go on increasing in Unbelief--God will not forgive them nor guide them on the Way.” [4:137]

An apostate cannot enjoy the repeated luxury of believing and disbelieving if punishment is death. A dead man has no further chance of again believing and disbelieving. Furthermore, if taken at face value, this verse indicates that God will only withdraw His guidance after repeated rejections. It does not tell Prophet (s) to kill these apostates. So, what right do these religious authorities and imams have to deprive a person of access to the divine guidance after the first?

The Qur'an states:

"How shall God guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the apostle was true and that clear signs had come unto them? But God guides not a people unjust. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of the God, of His Angels, and of all mankind;--In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be their lot;--except for those that repent (even) after that, make amends; For verily God is oft-forgiving, most merciful.” [3:86-89]

It is obvious from these verses that no punishment is to be inflicted by one man or another for apostasy. By no stretch of the imagination can the phrase, "curse of Allah," be interpreted to be a license to murder anyone who he considers to be an apostate. If any such commandment was prescribed it would have been clearly defined as all other punishments are in the Holy Qur'an.

The fact is that the Qur'an even mentions that apostates can be forgiven if they amend and repent. How could they repent if apostates are killed? By forced repentance? Then, does not Qur'an state that there is no compulsion in religion? The one verse that states that there is no compulsion in religion should be enough for a fair minded person to realize that Islam does not teach death to apostates.

Finally, can any one hadith suggesting to kill the apostate invalidate all the Qur'anic verses quoted earlier? We, Muslims, blame the West for anti-Muslim reporting. What do you expect from the West if we provide the sticks to beat us up? Will Muslims object the persecution of the new Muslim convert for his/her apostasy by his/her erstwhile co-religionists? If we believe that it is injustice to kill a new Muslim by non-Muslims for his/her apostasy from his/her former faith, you must give the same just treatment to Muslims who become Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc. Let Allah call to account those people who left Islam.

I, like many Muslims, am still bitter over smear jobs done on my religion by Western media over the Gulf war, and the Rushdie affair. So, the last thing that I want is to see Islam slandered all over again because of the barbaric and un-Islamic apostasy law. Ask yourselves: what kind of religion kills people for simple choice of faith, a change of heart? Not a religion of love and peace, not a religion worthy of respect! Perpetuation of the law to kill apostates can only increase or create doubts in the heart of the Muslims and potential Muslims, as people everywhere are already bombarded by negative images of Islam.

My message to those Muslims who, like me, yearn to project true compassionate face of Islam is that Dawa will never be successful in the West as long as crazy nonsense of law of apostasy is unchallenged by Muslims. If Muhammed Ali, Cat Stevens, and Murad Hoffman were harassed by a reactionary Christian group, the Muslims will be up in arms! We must be consistent in our attitude and compassionate to those
Muslims who want to leave Muslim community.
"Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil, ” [9:71]

Therefore, let us protect the rights of all people to have freedom to believe and disbelieve. In closing, Islam is only vulnerable when Muslims abandon its clear teaching of reason, religious freedom, tolerance, and peace.

olabowale:



My message to those Muslims who, like me, yearn to project true compassionate face of Islam is that Dawa will never be successful in the West as long as crazy nonsense of law of apostasy is unchallenged by Muslims. If Muhammed Ali, Cat Stevens, and Murad Hoffman were harassed by a reactionary Christian group, the Muslims will be up in arms! We must be consistent in our attitude and compassionate to those
Muslims who want to leave Muslim community.
"Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil, ” [9:71]

Therefore, let us protect the rights of all people to have freedom to believe and disbelieve. In closing, Islam is only vulnerable when Muslims abandon its clear teaching of reason, religious freedom, tolerance, and peace.

Thank you. So, you believe that the Islamic teaching of death sentence to apostates should be banned henceforth and this will be achieved through the revision of the quran. I see a progressive mind in you.

For the first time in my life, a humble Muslim, Olabowale has accepted that Islam should be reviewed. I just hope he will not be regarded as an apostate by the likes of Abuzola. If such is the case, we pay collectively need to accord him the required protection. There is nothing like the truth.

@olabowale,  WAS ANY APOSTATE KILLED DURING THE TIME OF THE PROPHET?

                     DID HE SANCTION ANY OF THE KILLINGS?

                     WHY DO WE HAVE THE DEATH PENALTY FOR APOSTACY IN SHARIA STATES?

   accept this about islam just as your fellow ''moderate muslims are doing'' http://www.reformislam.org/

sleek29:

@olabowale,  WAS ANY APOSTATE KILLED DURING THE TIME OF THE PROPHET?

                     DID HE SANCTION ANY OF THE KILLINGS?

                     WHY DO WE HAVE THE DEALT PENALTY FOR APOSTACY IN SHARIA STATES?

   accept this about islam just as your fellow ''moderate muslims are doing'' http://www.reformislam.org/

Below is the polled response from the site you provided. Notice the numnber of Abuzola's in the first part o fthe poll.

[size=14pt]
Does Islam Need to Be Reformed?[/size]


MUSLIM RESPONSE 0% 0
You are blasphemous pigs; you all should be beheaded. 8% 287
No, it is perfect as it is. 11% 371
Yes, but your reforms go too far. 4% 135
Yes, your plan is perfect. 5% 157
Yes, but your reforms do not go far enough. 2% 72



NON-MUSLIM RESPONSE 0% 0
Muslims cannot be trusted; this is a covert Islamization strategy. 10% 363
No, it is perfect as it is. 2% 71
Yes, but your reforms go too far. 2% 80
Yes, your plan is perfect. 40% 1,371
Yes, but your reforms do not go far enough. 16% 556

3,463 votes total


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olabowale:



I believe that inhuman law of apostasy has nothing to do with Islam of the Prophet (s) and it is an interpolation into Islam by fanatics among us and the selfish rulers. There are many reasons for me to believe that execution for apostasy is a manufactured law rather than divine law.

Could Allah, the Most Merciful, Most Compassionate, be the source of " kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them " found in the verse 2:191 of the Koran?. If the apostasy is not a divine law, then the quran is a manufactured manuscript by middle eastern fanatics like you claim.

@ last poster, of course we know that that book can't be from God,

Oya na . . .

@Aloy~Emeka: « #26 on: Today at 04:18:22 PM »

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Quote from: olabowale on Today at 02:41:11 PM


I believe that inhuman law of apostasy has nothing to do with Islam of the Prophet (s) and it is an interpolation into Islam by fanatics among us and the selfish rulers. There are many reasons for me to believe that execution for apostasy is a manufactured law rather than divine law.



Could Allah, the Most Merciful, Most Compassionate, be the source of " kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them " found in the verse 2:191 of the Koran?. If the apostasy is not a divine law, then the quran is a manufactured manuscript by middle eastern fanatics like you claim. [quote][/quote]Show me a word of "apostasy or apostate" in that verse? Also, do you realise that the folks that are supposed to be fought or killed are themselves, fighters, killers and the party that started the fighting, the killing, the hostility?

Boys; nezan and sleek29, watch Aloy~emeka slips and slides through the Okra water "pond" or wet cemented floor! We are talking about apostasy/apostates, remember?

olabowale:

@Aloy~Emeka:
Show me a word of "apostasy or apostate" in that verse? Also, do you realise that the folks that are supposed to be fought or killed are themselves, fighters, killers and the party that started the fighting, the killing, the hostility?

Boys; nezan and sleek29, watch Aloy~emeka slips and slides through the Okra water "pond" or wet cemented floor! We are talking about apostasy/apostates, remember?

 

The bible says: Thou shall not steal. Should an armed robber argue it and claim there is no word like armed robbery in the bible?. You get my drift?

i dont get your drift, since thou shall not steal of the bible, is a toothless bark. but check out thou shall not steal of the Quran; it carries a hefty fine; if caught as a repeat offender, and ther is no essential reason fo it, but it is a disease, then the finger get chopped off!

now this is where you shoud be able to get my drift; a joke is different from fact.