Sarassin:


The questions you ask are not a universal Pantheistic creed, they are an aggregate of individual philosophical disciplines/worldviews within the all encompassing umbrella of Pantheism presented as a unitary position of all Pantheists. In effect, different Pantheists could, and do have divergent views on the issues you raised.

That said, my own view is to re-state what I have written on other threads, I don’t see an overarching imperative for a creator God of the universe, there was a creator God, then he certainly abandoned the universe, the world and nature to random process . I would add that I believe in the Divine Logos, “the reason to be” and it need not have created the universe, it could in fact be a creation of the universe itself inherent in the first cause. Since I do not want to get into an atheistic argument over the origins of the universe, I would say simply that we do not know enough at this stage.

Very well then . I'm going to ask you questions on anything I think of . No pattern at all .


Can you elaborate on the deification of the universe as a pantheist and then the basic principles of pantheism ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Very well then . I'm going to ask you questions on anything I think of . No pattern at all .
Can you elaborate on the deification of the universe as a pantheist and then the basic principles of pantheism ?

But of course. I will give it a stab with the proviso that I make no representations to speak for all Pantheists, here are my thoughts;

The celebrated Poet John Donne in his acclaimed poem, No man is an island, wrote :

“ Every man is a part of the continent, a part of the main………..any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind….”

The Pre-Socratic Greek Philosopher Heraclitus taught:

“moreover we step into the river and out of the river as different beings” and then he went on to say “Gods are mortal, humans immortal, living their death, dying their life.”

These two different views by fabulous doyens of their times sums up for me the Pantheistic world view, one represents the inter-connectivity and inter-dependence of things in a closed system,the "Butterfly effect," if you will. The other view quite simply postulates that everything changes, nature itself is change flowing ever onwards, and even the nature of the flow changes. These for me represent the twin-fold basic principles of Pantheism.

It is not the case that Pantheists deify the physical structures of the cosmos i.e, the Galaxies, planets and their satellites, No. Think of the Pantheist concept of Divinity more as a moving spirit or awareness that permeates the universe, is sentient, and represents the sum total of all that has been before, all that is, and all that will be. Always seeking nothing but the highest good of its integral parts. Not unlike the Christian God, but without subjective personality or to borrow your phrase without the anthropomorphism and without the earth-bound limitations of a religious deity. And then imagine that absolutely anyone can form a part of this awareness.

In Christianity as well as the other great religions of the world, the concept of the Universal supreme deity as opposed to say a Global monotheistic deity, is an afterthought due to the inability of the ancients to fully grasp the full extent of the magnitude of the universe in much the same way today we see limitations with concepts such as for instance multiple universes.

Sarassin:


In Christianity as well as the other great religions of the world, the concept of the Universal supreme deity as opposed to say a Global monotheistic deity, is an afterthought due to the inability of the ancients to fully grasp the full extent of the magnitude of the universe in much the same way today we see limitations with concepts such as for instance multiple universes.

Multiple universes are not real , they are hypothetical . And even we assume they do exist , I don't see how their existence precludes the existence of God . God is immaterial and does not exist in the material realm . I don't think any kind of knowledge or discovery can impugn the existence of a Supreme Being .

Also , don't forget that some African Traditional religions , even Confucianism have some expressions of pantheism and they belong to the Pre-modern era when man knew close to nothing about the 'full extent of the magnitude of the universe.'

Panentheism sees God as the soul of the universe .The panentheists also hold the view that the cosmos exists within the Supreme Being thus IT is greater than the universe . And you clearly said that :

Sarassin: Think of the Pantheist concept of Divinity more as a moving spirit or awareness that permeates the universe, is sentient, and represents the sum total of all that has been before, all that is, and all that will be.

Remember , the soul is the essence of life of an entity , it is conscious(self awareness) , incorporeal(immaterial) and immortal (eternal). So basically , the panentheist sees God as what keeps the universe alive , conscious and sentient .

Sarassin:...other view quite simply postulates that everything changes, nature itself is change flowing ever onwards, and even the nature of the flow changes.

The panentheists aver that God is affected by the changes that occur in nature and that as the universe grows and learns, God also increases in knowledge and being.


As a pantheist , what makes the panentheistic view wrong ?

Sarassin:


But of course. I will give it a stab with the proviso that I make no representations to speak for all Pantheists, here are my thoughts;

The celebrated Poet John Donne in his acclaimed poem, No man is an island, wrote :

“ Every man is a part of the continent, a part of the main………..any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind….”

The Pre-Socratic Greek Philosopher Heraclitus taught:

“moreover we step into the river and out of the river as different beings” and then he went on to say “Gods are mortal, humans immortal, living their death, dying their life.”

These two different views by fabulous doyens of their times sums up for me the Pantheistic world view, one represents the inter-connectivity and inter-dependence of things in a closed system,the "Butterfly effect," if you will. The other view quite simply postulates that everything changes, nature itself is change flowing ever onwards, and even the nature of the flow changes. These for me represent the twin-fold basic principles of Pantheism.

It is not the case that Pantheists deify the physical structures of the cosmos i.e, the Galaxies, planets and their satellites, No. Think of the Pantheist concept of Divinity more as a moving spirit or awareness that permeates the universe, is sentient, and represents the sum total of all that has been before, all that is, and all that will be. Always seeking nothing but the highest good of its integral parts. Not unlike the Christian God, but without subjective personality or to borrow your phrase without the anthropomorphism and without the earth-bound limitations of a religious deity. And then imagine that absolutely anyone can form a part of this awareness.

@bolded; on what basis is this ideology rooted?, is it centered mainly on Man, if not how?

Immorttal , come oo let's talk pantheism

KingEbukasBlog:
Immorttal , come oo let's talk pantheism

Pantheism is the believe that ALL things is ONE. The Universe beign ALL that is in EVERYTHING. So in a figurative sense its true.

Immorttal:
Pantheism is the believe that ALL things is ONE. The Universe beign ALL that is in EVERYTHING. So in a figurative sense its true.

ALL things like Amoeba and Man are ONE? in what sense please explain

Immorttal:
Pantheism is the believe that ALL things is ONE. The Universe beign ALL that is in EVERYTHING. So in a figurative sense its true.

What about Sarassin's thoughts on pantheism , do you agree with him ? Or will you like to add something ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Multiple universes are not real , they are hypothetical . And even we assume they do exist , I don't see how their existence precludes the existence of God . God is immaterial and does not exist in the material realm . I don't think any kind of knowledge or discovery can impugn the existence of a Supreme Being .

Also , don't forget that some African Traditional religions , even Confucianism have some expressions of pantheism and they belong to the Pre-modern era when man knew close to nothing about the 'full extent of the magnitude of the universe.'

Panentheism sees God as the soul of the universe .The panentheists also hold the view that the cosmos exists within the Supreme Being thus IT is greater than the universe . And you clearly said that :

Remember , the soul is the essence of life of an entity , it is conscious(self awareness) , incorporeal(immaterial) and immortal (eternal). So basically , the panentheist sees God as what keeps the universe alive , conscious and sentient .

I am not an atheist so I am not in the business of impugning the existence of the Divine, the difference is in perception. And yes whilst it is correct to say that various religions have elements of Pantheism within them you will find that these elements are subsumed within the athropomorphic construct of religious deities or doctrine just as it is in Christianity.

As a Christian you cannot state that God is the soul of the universe, that statement is not rooted in the creation monologue.Yes I am aware tat there are any number of Christian NT scripture alluding to the universe, however, in the grand scheme of things Christianity has only recently become fully aware of the universe. The Genesis monologue of creation makes it clear that it is the world that Yahweh creates and the concept of “heavens” is that of an “overturned bowl” encompassing the Sun, the Moon as well as the stars being the “firmament”. The only interaction was with water outside of this firmament leading to the expression, “windows of heaven”. When you state that the Panentheist "believes that it is God that keeps the universe alive", it is essentially an afterthought.

As a Pantheist I take a different view. That of a universe that is perhaps a creation of itself, cause as yet to be attributed, but contained within it the kernels of the Logos, “it’s reason to be” and inherent design for destiny.

Remember , the soul is the essence of life of an entity , it is conscious(self awareness) , incorporeal(immaterial) and immortal (eternal). So basically , the panentheist sees God as what keeps the universe alive , conscious and sentient .

I do not see the imperative for a soul as you put it.

The panentheists aver that God is affected by the changes that occur in nature and that as the universe grows and learns, God also increases in knowledge and being.

I agree with this. It is one of the twinfold precepts I gave as the basic principles of Pantheism.

As a pantheist , what makes the panentheistic view wrong ?

I would not say that the Panentheistic view is wrong, simply that it is self-limiting.

Sarassin:


The Genesis monologue of creation makes it clear that it is the world that Yahweh creates and the concept of “heavens” is that of an “overturned bowl” encompassing the Sun, the Moon as well as the stars being the “firmament”. The only interaction was with water outside of this firmament leading to the expression, “windows of heaven”.

That's the dome cosmology but the bible does not endorse it though you might expostulate this , let's leave that for now .

As a Pantheist I take a different view. That of a universe that is perhaps a creation of itself, cause as yet to be attributed, but contained within it the kernels of the Logos, “it’s reason to be” and inherent design for destiny.

What exactly validates this view ' a creation of itself' , science ? Or a mere supposition ?

I would not say that the Panentheistic view is wrong, simply that it is self-limiting.

I strongly disagree , I mean it is apparent that panentheism took a step further with the view that the divine extends beyond time and space as per God being transcendent - greater than the material universe . So how is that self-limiting ?

Still open

@kingebukasblog. In Summary, Pantheism is wrapped around on the concept that the Universe is the God mankind have been searching. Maybe a very Giant and infinite God. Pantheist also believe that their existence is the Universe's (God's)way of experiencing itself. A Pantheist do not believe in the idea of evil and good, in fact, pantheism entails that evil and good is a natural process as both teaches and its essential to maintain a balance life which i found to be true,,. Evil do not exist Because when you look around the universe you would realise that most phenomena we humans termed as evil is actually a natural process which serve a definite, sometime a mysterious purpose.

KingEbukasBlog:
According to Wikipedia , Pantheism is the belief that all of reality is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god. Pantheists thus do not believe in a distinct personal or anthropomorphic god .

Pantheists believe in a self existent cosmos . According to Pantheism , the universe exists for itself, without cause or purpose. Nothing existed before it that could have been its cause. Nothing exists outside it that could be the source of its purpose.

But why do Pantheists hold such beliefs ? Why do they deify the universe or the universal laws ?

Let's hear it from popular pantheists .

PastorAIO , stephenmorris , Sarassin , Immorttal etc

What led you to Pantheism ?

Are you dissing me? A crowd of witnesses are waiting for you.

analice107:

Are you dissing me? A crowd of witnesses are waiting for you.

Oh not at all dear . Just sent you a new mail , please check on it .

Thanks Gracious

Immorttal:
@kingebukasblog. In Summary, Pantheism is wrapped around on the concept that the Universe is the God mankind have been searching. Maybe a very Giant and infinite God. Pantheist also believe that their existence is the Universe's (God's)way of experiencing itself. A Pantheist do not believe in the idea of evil and good, in fact, pantheism entails that evil and good is a natural process as both teaches and its essential to maintain a balance life which i found to be true,,. Evil do not exist Because when you look around the universe you would realise that most phenomena we humans termed as evil is actually a natural process which serve a definite, sometime a mysterious purpose.

Interesting , okay I'll get back to morality of the pantheist much later .

As a pantheist , what's your view of spirit or soul - both can be used interchangeably . Why does man have a spirit ? Or why is there an immaterial part of man ? What's the purpose of the spirit to man ?

KingEbukasBlog:

Oh not at all dear . Just sent you a new mail , please check on it .
Thanks Gracious

Thank you your Majesty for finding time to attend to your subject.

analice107:

Thank you your Majesty for finding time to attend to your subject.

Benisons ma

KingEbukasBlog:

As a pantheist , what's your view of spirit or soul - both can be used interchangeably

first things first I will say am a Pantheist but i often present myself as an Atheist because that is the General term;you dont want to force some novice looking for their diction. There are plethora of theories or ambiguities surrounding the concept of spirit or soul but I will attempt to expound this concept using my experience and findings so far. I will say that our consciousness which solely is the human mind, (permit me to say that the human mind is our spirit or consciousness). This spirit interprets our experiences, beliefs, daily activities, and the events or things we dub to be true (which may be false in reality after all) for instance, I,ve read and investigated many NDEs, what i realised that they do carry their beliefs (supposed actuality or fact) into the afterlife thats why a Christian will narrate how they met Yahweh, hell fire is real, heaven is real etc. a Muslim also narrates her experience in that same manner, if they actually continued to live on that illusion till eternity is the part i,m entirely in-cognizant of. another example is if one is blind by birth, their dreams is portrayed as a blind person even in extreme cases of OBE, they,d still see themselves as blind person, thats really weird.
Everyday, I try to figure out the meaning of life, our purpose, and why we die only to continue existence in the astral. now from my experience, I believe am getting closer to the hidden truth. The human spirit as I see it its very powerful and its the missing link to discovering the truth of who we truly are: A fragment of a Supreme Being (God or the Universe) that does not die so in essence we are God (Pantheism)

KingEbukasBlog:

Why does man have a spirit ? Or why is there an immaterial part of man ?

this is simple, its because we do not belong here. without the spirit we cannot experience life in this plane. let me remind you that the physical body is an ordinary meat.

KingEbukasBlog:

What's the purpose of the spirit to man ?

have you every wondered why we have to spend a third of our existence in the astral why must we visit the astral plane why we sleep, can't man be designed to sleep with his consciousness intact in the body. maybe when you consider this mind-boggling revelations then it make absolute sense to say that the purpose of man here on this plane is to Learn. its as simple as it is.

Where is Plaetton. He is Pantheist too. Come here Sire.

DeepSight:

Where is Plaetton. He is Pantheist too. Come here Sire.

Why, so that you can blow big grammar with him? Big grammar that ends up being meaningless?

JackBizzle:





Why, so that you can blow big grammar with him? Big grammar that ends up being meaningless?

Did you fall off your bed and crack your skull this morning sire?
Your puerile low self esteem has always been a problem for me. I don't understand how any human can think so little of himself as you do.

DeepSight:


Did you fall off your bed and crack your skull this morning sire?
Your puerile low self esteem has always been a problem for me. I don't understand how any human can think so little of himself as you do.

How does my comment show "low self esteem"?

You've been smoking oshogbo weed abi?

JackBizzle:



How does my comment show "low self esteem"?

You've been smoking oshogbo weed abi?

What's your view on Pantheism bro .

DeepSight:

Where is Plaetton. He is Pantheist too. Come here Sire.

What's your opinion on Pantheism sir ?

KingEbukasBlog:


What's your view on Pantheism bro .

Pantheism is crap dressed up in intellectual mumbo-jumbo.

Just imagine that we find another universe made up of fecal matter (Shite), these pantheists would claim it to be god.

Or if we take the other meaning of pantheism to mean "worship of many gods"- then I can say that it is a glorified paganism.

Immorttal:
first things first I will say am a Pantheist but i often present myself as an Atheist because that is the General term

No they are not . Atheism says there is no God or gods - atheism repudiates any concept of divinity . While Pantheism simply reject the concept of anthropomorphism of God with the view that the universe is God or divine .

you dont want to force some novice looking for their diction. There are plethora of theories or ambiguities surrounding the concept of spirit or soul but I will attempt to expound this concept using my experience and findings so far. I will say that our consciousness which solely is the human mind, (permit me to say that the human mind is our spirit or consciousness). This spirit interprets our experiences, beliefs, daily activities, and the events or things we dub to be true (which may be false in reality after all) for instance, I,ve read and investigated many NDEs, what i realised that they do carry their beliefs (supposed actuality or fact) into the afterlife thats why a Christian will narrate how they met Yahweh, hell fire is real, heaven is real etc. a Muslim also narrates her experience in that same manner, if they actually continued to live on that illusion till eternity is the part i,m entirely in-cognizant of. another example is if one is blind by birth, their dreams is portrayed as a blind person even in extreme cases of OBE, they,d still see themselves as blind person, thats really weird.

Where does one spend his afterlife? In this universe ? And where in the universe ?

Everyday, I try to figure out the meaning of life, our purpose, and why we die only to continue existence in the astral.

What is the astral ? And what validates your belief in the astral ?

now from my experience, I believe am getting closer to the hidden truth. The human spirit as I see it its very powerful and its the missing link to discovering the truth of who we truly are: A fragment of a Supreme Being (God or the Universe) that does not die so in essence we are God (Pantheism) this is simple, its because we do not belong here. without the spirit we cannot experience life in this plane.

As a pantheist , what's your view on extraterrestrial life ? And do extraterrestrial beings have spirits ? And assuming extraterrestrial beings do exist , do they coexist with human spirits in the afterlife ?

let me remind you that the physical body is an ordinary meat.

Do you agree with the view of the physical body being solidified or crystallized spirit ?

have you every wondered why we have to spend a third of our existence in the astral why must we visit the astral plane why we sleep, can't man be designed to sleep with his consciousness intact in the body. maybe when you consider this mind-boggling revelations then it make absolute sense to say that the purpose of man here on this plane is to Learn. its as simple as it is.

A baby who dies at birth , what happens to its spirit in the astral since it has learnt nothing coming into this world ?

JackBizzle:


Pantheism is crap dressed up in intellectual mumbo-jumbo.

Just imagine that we find another universe made up of fecal matter (Shite), these pantheists would claim it to be god.

As an atheist ,why do you think the pantheist's view of the universe as god wrong ?

Or if we take the other meaning of pantheism to mean "worship of many gods"- then I can say that it is a glorified paganism.

Polytheism is the worship of many gods .

KingEbukasBlog:


As an atheist ,why do you think the pantheist's view of the universe as god wrong ?



Polytheism is the worship of many gods .

Here are two defintions of pantheism.........focus on number 2!


pantheism
ˈpanθiːɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2.
the worship or tolerance of many gods.

JackBizzle:



Here are two defintions of pantheism.........focus on number 2!


pantheism
ˈpanθiːɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2.
the worship or tolerance of many gods.

Alright then .

So as an atheist ,why do you think the pantheist's view of the universe as god wrong ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Alright then .

So as an atheist ,why do you think the pantheist's view of the universe as god wrong ?

Like I said.....it means that shite (crap, igbe, feces, excrement) is part of God......it also means that if we found a planet made up of shite, then it is a big part of God.

KingEbukasBlog:


What's your opinion on Pantheism sir ?

Its interesting but escapist.
Elements of it here and there are true: regardless: the Creative Factor of our Reality transcends this reality.
It is flawed in that regard.

DeepSight:


Its interesting but escapist.
Elements of it here and there are true: regardless: the Creative Factor of our Reality transcends this reality.
It is flawed in that regard.

Exactly ! That's why I wanted Sarassin's view on panentheism - quite similar to pantheism but it accepts that the 'Creative Factor of our Reality' transcends this reality - but he said it is self-limiting . Apparently it is the other way , pantheism is self-limiting .