felixomor:


people like him end up in authority,
The outcomes could be like those in the times of Stalin, and Mao of China.

Exactly !

The first time I read about Nihilism , I was shocked ! It is a very dangerous philosophy . Google "dangers of nihilism". Nihilists are seen as dangerous people . Atheists are actually nihilist , since nihilism developed due to the outright rejection of a creator of the universe . Because if a creator exists , then there should be a purpose for the existence of life .

That's why I say most atheists are dangerous people because those ones are rabid nihilists . Grizzlybear exposed himself as one - I'm very happy he posted this write-up . This is using one's hands to destroy himself and his coterie of atheist friends .

KingEbukasBlog:


Even atheist German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche saw Nihilism as a dangerous philosophy . Though actually being an atheist makes you a nihilist . He rejected the idea of living without meaning or purpose .



I know Nothing of nihilism while all I've done on this thread is to expose the dangers of nihilism . Nihilism simply means living without meaning or purpose - this inherently inhibits any motivation to succeed , pursue knowledge or be morally good .

Nihilism has conspicuous flaws and I wont hesitate to point them out to you . You know nothing about nihilism !

This reply shows that you know nothing about nihilism or Neitzsche's philosophy. Nihilism doesn't "simply mean." Nihilism is a broad branch of philosophy that is more comprehensive and more elaborate than "simply living without meaning or purpose." Nihilism has sub-branches and those sub-branches can be held exclusive of each other.

Lol. Neitzsche's views are ambiguous for an un-skilled and unlearned wanna bee philosopher like you to parse. Don't even try.

Stop reading and regurgitating bias views of random strangers on the web and actually critically study a subject by reading peer reviewed books about it and formulate your own ideas for yourself. This is what people who should be taken seriously do.

felixomor:


So u have finally reduced your existence to the level of animals who dont have a soul nor a consciousness.

Congrats.

"Rationality" as given by what?

Who designed you to be "rational" that left the animals not to be "rational"?
Who programmed your DNA to Form the rational brain while you were still in your mother's womb?

Think deep.
Dont float on the waters.

I doubt if u can or will, though.

WTF? Honestly you need some more reading to do, I plan not commenting on religion topic again but your initial post cringe me so I had to reply you breaking it down like I would explain to a 5 years old but this your latest reply is a testament that shows you don't even know shi t.

Let me school a little.

First

No one can reduce their existence from being an animal, you still an animal but a different specie that is more evolved prior to having a rational brain and had to leave the forest to turn hunter and gatherer of food.

Second

Lesser Animals has consciousness because consciousness connotes being in an aware state. However, Soul in human is the mind but in religious terms its called soul. Animal don't rationalize and use logic, their brain is too primitive to use the mind/soul in them.

Third

Nobody designed me to be rational, Reading/Studying is like a second nature to me so prior to being an avid reader I learnt to be rational but then again, Lesser animals can't be rational because their brain again is too primitive to think they only use basic instinct. Think of a basic instinct as a 2 years old infant brain, that's what matured animal uses yet they smart enough not to do religion or fight over different Gods.

Fourth

God doesn't programmed DNA, Foetus develops soon as Zygote forms from the mixture of female ovary egg and male sper m. After that, a new biological being gather all his new information from parents to form new DNA. That's why you resemble you dad and still have traits of your mom.

Fifth

I don't have to proof to you am a deep thinker, I only know that I know nothing.

If this is true then I don't see why we are still in existence, If there is no reason for life, or rather the Universe, thenwhat keeps the activities within it sustained?


If the universe appeared from nowhere, for no reason whatsoever, then what stops it from disappearing for no reason too.?

IF the universe is meaningless and life is meaningless, Then why does science make sense. One of the objectives of science is to understand the Universe and the way it works,
surely trying to understand something without meaning should end fruitlessly. But even scientists will agree that the study of the Universe is fascinating, the more knowledge they gain, the more there is to learn.

The scheme of things in the universe does not depict meaninglessness, Everything and everyone In the universe have a function and a part to play in its advancement,
and this does not exclude human life.

Lads easy on the mentions please

aaronson:
WTF? Honestly you need some more reading to do, I plan not commenting on religion topic again but your initial post cringe me so I had to reply you breaking it down like I would explain to a 5 years old but this your latest reply is a testament that shows you don't even know shi t.

Let me school a little.

First

No one can reduce their existence from being an animal, you still an animal but a different specie that is more evolved prior to having a rational brain and had to leave the forest to turn hunter and gatherer of food.

Second

Lesser Animals has consciousness because consciousness connotes being in an aware state. However, Soul in human is the mind but in religious terms its called soul. Animal don't rationalize and use logic, their brain is too primitive to use the mind/soul in them.

Third

Nobody designed me to be rational, Reading/Studying is like a second nature to me so prior to being an avid reader I learnt to be rational but then again, Lesser animals can't be rational because their brain again is too primitive to think they only use basic instinct. Think of a basic instinct as a 2 years old infant brain, that's what matured animal uses yet they smart enough not to do religion or fight over different Gods.

Fourth

God doesn't programmed DNA, Foetus develops soon as Zygote forms from the mixture of female ovary egg and male sper m. After that, a new biological being gather all his new information from parents to form new DNA. That's why you resemble you dad and still have traits of your mom.

Fifth

I don't have to proof to you am a deep thinker, I only know that I know nothing.

U have not schooled any body.

Obviously you couldnt pick out the difference between "animal" and "animal who dont have souls".
Using the two interchangeably, yet u want to school us.

Again u wont have bothered trying to explain some biology because you would dig the question deeper.

By saying you picked DNa information from your parents only makes even a child to ask then
'where did your first ancestor pick his own from"?

And besides its even the design of the DNA that instructs your cells to pick info from your parents.

You can see that the intelligent design can only but just get more beautifully complex?

GrizzlyBear:


This reply shows that you know nothing about nihilism or Neitzsche's philosophy. Nihilism doesn't "simply mean." Nihilism is a broad branch of philosophy that is more comprehensive and more elaborate than "simply living without meaning or purpose." Nihilism has sub-branches and those sub-branches can be held exclusive of each other.

Lol. Neitzsche's views are ambiguous for an un-skilled and unlearned wanna bee philosopher like you to parse. Don't even try.

Stop reading and regurgitating bias views of random strangers on the web and actually critically study a subject by reading peer reviewed books about it and formulate your own ideas for yourself. This is what people who should be taken seriously do.

I am a computer scientist not a philosopher wanna bee .What every branch in Nihilism have in common is the rejection of a creator and the existence of one betokens a purpose of existence .

Random strangers on the internet ? To a visitor to this site , aint you a random stranger but you believe you understand this crap you peddle . Every perspective or critical view of any concept should be welcomed . You want to avoid letting people know how dangerous it is be a Nihilist ? Dont stress me bro

KingEbukasBlog:


Exactly !

The first time I read about Nihilism , I was shocked ! It is a very dangerous philosophy . Google "dangers of nihilism". Nihilists are seen as dangerous people . Atheists are actually nihilist , since nihilism developed due to the outright rejection of a creator of the universe . Because if a creator exists , then there should be a purpose for the existence of life .

That's why I say most atheists are dangerous people because those ones are rabid nihilists . Grizzlybear exposed himself as one - I'm very happy he posted this write-up . This is using one's hands to destroy himself and his coterie of atheist friends .

there are other atheistic philosophies that still find purpose and joy in life nihilism is not the logical extension of atheism
And btw how the fukk is life purposeless
You make a purpose out of your life
We can say life is terrible and ugly and meaningless, or we can say it is beautiful and enjoyable. We may as well enjoy life to its utmost by taking responsibility for the way we look at the world. The universe does not care one iota if we perceive our lives as miserable or as wonderful: This choice resides solely in us, as individuals.
Live your life you the fullest it's that simple
What is so depressing about that
What you are basically doing is cognitive dissonance
You have invented an afterlife for yourself as a coping mechanism for the fear of your own mortality where you can live on forever and now something of conflicting with your worldview and you are doing everything in your power to rationalise and ignore everything else that doesn't fit with your core belief
Wake the fukk up!

"For in him we live, and move, and have our being..." Acts 17:28

Outside GOD, life and existence has no reason to be. If we were not created for any purpose, why should we be procreating? Is it good to perpetuate that which has no use?

What is the use of being alive? You say helping others? What is the use of helping others? You say it makes them feel good and gives meaning to my existence? Why should I make anybody feel good? Of what use is it? You say I'll be accepted? Why should I be accepted? Is there any reward for being accepted as good? You say I'm bad for looking for a reward to my good deeds? What difference does it make if I'm bad or good? There's no reward for being good and there's no reward for being bad, right? Nobody cares right? Afterall we're products of blind chance right? What is the yardstick for measuring right or wrong?

If we were just one of those things that happened in the universe, what is the essence of our being? What does our presence add to the universe

jonbellion:
there are other atheistic philosophies that still find purpose and joy in life nihilism is not the logical extension of atheism
And btw how the fukk is life purposeless
You make a purpose out of your life
We can say life is terrible and ugly and meaningless, or we can say it is beautiful and enjoyable. We may as well enjoy life to its utmost by taking responsibility for the way we look at the world. The universe does not care one iota if we perceive our lives as miserable or as wonderful: This choice resides solely in us, as individuals.
Live your life you the fullest it's that simple
What is so depressing about that
What you are basically doing is cognitive dissonance
You have invented an afterlife for yourself as a coping mechanism for the fear of your own mortality where you can live on forever and now something of conflicting with your worldview and you are doing everything in your power to rationalise and ignore everything else that doesn't fit with your core belief
Wake the fukk up!

Mister shut up abeg . You are the one who does not know the difference between nihilism and and existentialism . The latter is finding meaning to a purposeless world . The very few atheists who achieved in life are most likely to subscribe existentialism .

KingEbukasBlog:


Mister shut up abeg . You are the one who does not know the difference between nihilism and and existentialism . The latter is finding meaning to purposeless world . The very few atheists who achieved in life are most likely to subscribe existentialism .

isn't that what I said
Ayeayeaeye

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KingEbukasBlog:


Mister shut up abeg . You are the one who does not know the difference between nihilism and and existentialism . The latter is finding meaning to purposeless world . The very few atheists who achieved in life are most likely to subscribe existentialism .

isn't that what I said
Oh brother

Why should I strive to get a knowledge of the universe? What is the use thereof?

Why should I strive to get a knowledge of the truth? What has the truth to offer? What difference does it make whether I know the truth or not? What is the use of truth?

If the truth is that nobody created the universe and that we are not obliged to any Creator: why should I know? Why are you telling me? Of what benefit is it? Even if it has any benefit, why should I choose that benefit? To better my life? But life is meaningless: why should I even live or try to improve my life? Am I not a random aggregation of matter with no reason for existence?

*******************************

Life is meaningless without GOD.

DoctorAlien:
Why should I strive to get a knowledge of the universe? What is the use thereof?

Why should I strive to get a knowledge of the truth? What has the truth to offer? What difference does it make whether I know the truth or not? What is the use of truth?

If the truth is that nobody created the universe and that we are not obliged to any Creator: why should I know? Why are you telling me? Of what benefit is it? Even if it has any benefit, why should I choose that benefit? To better my life? But life is meaningless: why should I even live or try to improve my life? Am I not a random aggregation of matter with no reason for existence?

*******************************

Life is meaningless without GOD.

So what meaning does God.....sorry Yahweh bring to life

GrizzlyBear:


This reply shows that you know nothing about nihilism or Neitzsche's philosophy. Nihilism doesn't "simply mean." Nihilism is a broad branch of philosophy that is more comprehensive and more elaborate than "simply living without meaning or purpose." Nihilism has sub-branches and those sub-branches can be held exclusive of each other.

Lol. Neitzsche's views are ambiguous for an un-skilled and unlearned wanna bee philosopher like you to parse. Don't even try.

Stop reading and regurgitating bias views of random strangers on the web and actually critically study a subject by reading peer reviewed books about it and formulate your own ideas for yourself. This is what people who should be taken seriously do.

Ebuka no dey dissapoint

Oga grizzly bear no waste all this ur grammar on ebuka matter

Even the heaven you guys always prance about in our faces
You won't be yourself there
Cuz basically you won't remember any of your loved ones in hell since sin and sadness cannot occur in heaven
So the purpose of your own life is to die and become a brainwashed zombie licking Gods ass forever whole unbelievers like ourselves would burn forever with our memories intact
Yeeeeeeeeeeah
I'll pass

jonbellion:
there are other atheistic philosophies that still find purpose and joy in life nihilism is not the logical extension of atheism
And btw how the fukk is life purposeless
You make a purpose out of your life

The emboldened text was why I told you to shut up . To an existentialist , life is purposeless but he strives to find meaning and makes the best out of his life .

It is very difficult to be an existentialist because if he is overwhelmed by life's vicissitude , he can easily break down or give up and depression sets in because to him life is indeed purposeless so what's the point picking himself up again . At this point , he could consider nihilism.

Atheism is really sad and pathetic .

Very interesting writeup OP, but I do believe there are different valid secular perspectives.

I personally stopped finding the idea that there may be nothing after death scary, quite quickly after becoming non-religious. I just sort of recognized that indeed the universe does not revolve around me, nor does it exist solely for my pleasure. It's been chuggling along for 14 billion years without me. My life was a chance gift, now I get to be a part of the show. It doesn't make sense, then, to take any of it for granted, the "good" or "bad".

I feel like that the main thing that might make the reality of our human condition so "depressing" to some people, is the expectation that it should be any other way than the way it is. That there should be any such thing as "eternal happiness" (via heaven or temporary experiences) and "eternal life" in the first place. That there should be a way to permanently eradicate human pain. These are unrealistic expectations that religion sets up. For example,

GrizzlyBear:
our definition and notions of morality, are relative and subjective.

Anyone who arrives at this philosophical realization, would definitely feel a painful sting of despair.

I don't think such a realization should necessarily arouse despair.

If we simply understand ourselves as animals endowed by evolution with certain capabilities like forming complex societies, then the idea that we would need to create the rules for how to best live in harmony, based on our own collective ideas, just seems normal/neutral. Not particularly painful, nor optimistic. Just the way we are.

Such understanding could engender a cascade of negative feelings that could prompt such a person to give up on life. Undoubtedly, the understanding of the objective meaninglessness of life and the futility of human existence, is the heaviest intellectual burden for man to shoulder.

Again, I think this would only be the case for someone if they were contrasting with false expectations that only exist in a religious view of the world. I'd imagine that if some one grew up being taught the following as normal:

1. Humans are animals capable of communication and living in large societies. For those societies to be functional, we must make our own rules. However evolutionarily we do have a rough innate sense of fairness, and our moral ideas tend to be heavily influenced by that.

2. Our brains attribute meaning to things based on how we interact with and think about them. What matters most to us individually may not necessarily matter to others, but the things we value sometimes intersect which allows for bonding.

Then they wouldn't see those aspects of reality as grim or an "intellectual burden". Just how things are, for a certain species on planet earth that we happen to be. Also I wouldn't call morality completely subjective or objective - at least if we keep the scope of "objective" within the human species. Morality has both biological/innate, and environmental/learned components.
`
Imagine someone telling a 5 year old child that when he's 10, he'll recieve a super amazing toy that's better than any toy he could ever think of, it has magical powers and lets him travel to different dimensions and will change his life forever. The child now his this grand expectation that one day, he'll have everything he's ever wanted & will never be sad again. Then the child turns ten, and he recieves the news or deduces for himself, that the toy doesn't exist and he's been lied to. Disappointment, grief.

But if the kid was never promised the toy, or even heard of such a toy in the first place, he would've never had to experience that disappointment. It's the same with religion vs reality.

I've noticed that people who did not grow up in religious homes, and never were exposed to ideas like heaven in any serious manner, have a much more easygoing view on death and conversations about existence. They seem more readily able to accept that life has both moments of joy and gladness, AND those of depression and bleakness, that growth and destruction are both a part of the picture.

They never had to deal with the disillusionment that the unrealistic promises of religion can lead to, because they were never fed those illusions in the first place.

Jesus did not promise us that life on earth will be a bed of roses.

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Tim. 3:16

"...In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" Jn. 16:33

But we know that we will live in mansions of gold, whose Builder and Maker is GOD, in that golden city devoid of anything that defiles, in the sweet by and by.

I

KingEbukasBlog:


The emboldened text was why I told you to shut up . To an existentialist , life is purposeless but he strives to find meaning and makes the best out of his life .

It is very difficult to be an existentialist because if he is overwhelmed by life's vicissitude , he can easily break down or give up and depression sets in because to him life is indeed purposeless so what's the point picking himself up again . At this point , he could consider nihilism.

Atheism is really sad and pathetic .

Athiesm is not "sad" and "pathetic" Atheism is coming to grips with reality. That does not make life purposeless. There are unbelievers that have survived though horrible situations. This is basically what any person from a different religion would say cuz basically each of their own Gods supposedly gives thier life meaning
The fact that you want to make a meaning out of your life is enough for you not to give in the depression. Stephen hawking has ALS does he look like he is a nihilist.
What of the people that lived during the 20th century during world war 2 who struggled to make sense of the evils that had just occurred
I'm pretty sure they has hopes and dreams
You should just be happy your alive and not waste the opportunity
With or without the Abrahamic God life is pretty much purposeless given the fact that about 99.9% of the human race despite all their achievements and memories would end up in hell a place of despair and internal anguish which means Mel Gibsons passion of the Christ moviejesus' sacrifice for the world was useless and the remaining 0.1 percent are going into eternal slavery and servitude
-Jews, Muslims, buhdists, athiests, Diests and basically anybody that didn't accept Jesus as the "master of thier lives"
Y'all are gonna continue picking cotton in heaven on the bright side it won't be only blacks you'll be mixed with other races.... Well other races have always been involved in slave trade though the population would be less in heaven you guys would be more due to your... Errr.....gullibility
You only live once bro but if you do it right once is enough

cloudgoddess:
Very interesting writeup OP, but I do believe there are different valid secular perspectives.

I personally stopped finding the idea that there may be nothing after death scary, quite quickly after becoming non-religious. I just sort of recognized that indeed the universe does not revolve around me, nor does it exist solely for my pleasure. It's been chuggling along for 14 billion years without me. My life was a chance gift, now I get to be a part of the show. It doesn't make sense, then, to take any of it for granted, the "good" or "bad".

I feel like that the main thing that might make the reality of our human condition so "depressing" to some people, is the expectation that it should be any other way than the way it is. That there should be any such thing as "eternal happiness" (via heaven or temporary experiences) and "eternal life" in the first place. That there should be a way to permanently eradicate human pain. These are unrealistic expectations that religion sets up. For example,


I don't think such a realization should necessarily arouse despair.

If we simply understand ourselves as animals endowed by evolution with certain capabilities like forming complex societies, then the idea that we would need to create the rules for how to best live in harmony, based on our own collective ideas, just seems normal/neutral. Not particularly painful, nor optimistic. Just the way we are.


Again, I think this would only be the case for someone if they were contrasting with false expectations that only exist in a religious view of the world. I'd imagine that if some one grew up being taught the following as normal:



Then they wouldn't see those aspects of reality as grim or an "intellectual burden". Just how things are, for a certain species on planet earth that we happen to be. Also I wouldn't call morality completely subjective or objective - at least if we keep the scope of "objective" within the human species. Morality has both biological/innate, and environmental/learned components.
`
Imagine someone telling a 5 year old child that when he's 10, he'll recieve a super amazing toy that's better than any toy he could ever think of, it has magical powers and lets him travel to different dimensions and will change his life forever. The child now his this grand expectation that one day, he'll have everything he's ever wanted & will never be sad again. Then the child turns ten, and he recieves the news or deduces for himself, that the toy doesn't exist and he's been lied to. Disappointment, grief.

But if the kid was never promised the toy, or even heard of such a toy in the first place, he would've never had to experience that disappointment. It's the same with religion vs reality.

I've noticed that people who did not grow up in religious homes, and never were exposed to ideas like heaven in any serious manner, have a much more easygoing view on death and conversations about existence. They seem more readily able to accept that life has both moments of joy and gladness, AND those of depression and bleakness, that growth and destruction are both a part of the picture.

They never had to deal with the disillusionment that the unrealistic promises of religion can lead to, because they were never fed those illusions in the first place.

The idea of nothing after death doesn't scare me, and it's not the underlying impetus for the premise of my post. What underpins my post, is that the totality of conscious human experience actually holds no objective meaning, and whatever label of meaning we draw from our knowledge of our world and tie around it, is subjective. And when you apply this arbitrary, subjective process of ascribing meaning like you are doing, then anyone could justify their actions by attributing their own subjective meaning to whatever motivated those actions.

Also, degree of expectations, or lack of, that we have about our world doesn't take or add from or to the issue of objective meaning or the futile nature of our existence. Even if one accepts the grim nature of his world and doesn't hold idealistic expectations, his end is still imminent. He is still a victim of vain struggle. He is still basically a "hedonistic survival robot." Everything he does is an expression of his biological programming to survive and pass on his genes. Everything he experiences in the space between birth, reproduction and death, amounts to no cosmic value or any that he perceives. If he thinks it does, then he is a casualty of illusion.

We are all victims of unrealistic goals. That's why we are still alive. We all strive for happiness and love and fulfillment and peace. But these are miserable hopes that are unachievable to the degree in which we seek them, and sadly, they are what's keeping us alive.

We can aver that making the world a better place for ourselves is our duty, but this is just a safety net and a coping mechanism that prevents us from peering into the dark, horrifying hole of reality. Creating rules that help us live in harmony is just a means of prolonging our futile existence. It's a foolish attempt at preserving and enabling the continuation of the pain, suffering and bleak end of every member of our species.

If what happens when we die is just the same as before when we are born, then why spend a lifetime marred by pain, terror, uncertainty and endless struggle for survival, tinged with a comparably small degree of fleeting happiness and pleasure, just to arrive again at this era before birth? This defines the futility of our existence.

juicydiceyjoe:

I'm really curious about how you think.

So, if there is no purpose in life and the only thing keeping you from committing suicide is some genetic stuff.

Why do anything else. So all you do is just eat to keep surviving? Why read, why acquire knowledge, why discuss ideas and argue.

If there is no purpose in life, all you will do is eat to keep surviving and avoid harmful things as much as you can.

Anything else you do stems from purpose.

Anyone who decides to still continue living despite acknowledging this truth, is basically just betraying himself. He is more or less a coward. A coward who is afraid to let go, because he is tied to his world by hedonistic desires and vain hopes. All illusions.

I am a coward. I stare continuously at the ugly face of reality and deny knowing it. I cling to my desires and hopes, and allow truth fall off the edge.

cloudgoddess:
Very interesting writeup OP, but I do believe there are different valid secular perspectives.

I personally stopped finding the idea that there may be nothing after death scary, quite quickly after becoming non-religious. I just sort of recognized that indeed the universe does not revolve around me, nor does it exist solely for my pleasure. It's been chuggling along for 14 billion years without me. My life was a chance gift, now I get to be a part of the show. It doesn't make sense, then, to take any of it for granted, the "good" or "bad".

I feel like that the main thing that might make the reality of our human condition so "depressing" to some people, is the expectation that it should be any other way than the way it is. That there should be any such thing as "eternal happiness" (via heaven or temporary experiences) and "eternal life" in the first place. That there should be a way to permanently eradicate human pain. These are unrealistic expectations that religion sets up. For example,


I don't think such a realization should necessarily arouse despair.

If we simply understand ourselves as animals endowed by evolution with certain capabilities like forming complex societies, then the idea that we would need to create the rules for how to best live in harmony, based on our own collective ideas, just seems normal/neutral. Not particularly painful, nor optimistic. Just the way we are.


Again, I think this would only be the case for someone if they were contrasting with false expectations that only exist in a religious view of the world. I'd imagine that if some one grew up being taught the following as normal:



Then they wouldn't see those aspects of reality as grim or an "intellectual burden". Just how things are, for a certain species on planet earth that we happen to be. Also I wouldn't call morality completely subjective or objective - at least if we keep the scope of "objective" within the human species. Morality has both biological/innate, and environmental/learned components.
`
Imagine someone telling a 5 year old child that when he's 10, he'll recieve a super amazing toy that's better than any toy he could ever think of, it has magical powers and lets him travel to different dimensions and will change his life forever. The child now his this grand expectation that one day, he'll have everything he's ever wanted & will never be sad again. Then the child turns ten, and he recieves the news or deduces for himself, that the toy doesn't exist and he's been lied to. Disappointment, grief.

But if the kid was never promised the toy, or even heard of such a toy in the first place, he would've never had to experience that disappointment. It's the same with religion vs reality.

I've noticed that people who did not grow up in religious homes, and never were exposed to ideas like heaven in any serious manner, have a much more easygoing view on death and conversations about existence. They seem more readily able to accept that life has both moments of joy and gladness, AND those of depression and bleakness, that growth and destruction are both a part of the picture.

They never had to deal with the disillusionment that the unrealistic promises of religion can lead to, because they were never fed those illusions in the first place.

*tear*
I couldn't have said it better myself

aaronson:
That didn't nullify meaninglessness as lesser animals aren't so ambitious as human to give life a meaning.
Yes! Human as well as Animals feed and breed but Animals don't go around worshiping a sky daddy they smarter than that.

1* What do human and Animals have in common? Basic instinct to feed and breed.

* Is that an utmost meaning to live or survival? Survival.

2* What differentiate human from Animals? Rational thinking

* Is that an utmost reason man gets so ambitious and gives meaning to life? Yes.

* what are the meaning man gives to life?
God
Religion
Politics
Societal stratification
Societal norms
Marriage

i think some species do remain faithful for the rest of their lives..

Wealth accumulation

they dont have ''legal tenders''..
But there's a bird species which accumulates shiny objects it picks.....
Can it pass?

Fun and leisure

yes animals do

Career
Technological improvement for easier living

yes..some animals create ''tools''

Luxury

yes..its very common

Power and respect etc.

power...a very very definite yes...
Respect ..yes..

Now tell which animal strive to own all of those listed above.

its pretty common in nature.

GrizzlyBear:


Replying you is synonymous to putting my brain in an oven. It's an immensely intellectually excruciating experience. You are so ignorant about how everything in the world works. Arguing with you is pure torture. I'd rather argue with a 5 year old than argue with you, because at least a 5 year old would ask more intelligent questions than you.

Pick up a evolutionary biology text book and read.

Thanks.

chisos!!!

GrizzlyBear:


Can the internet just ban this guy for life? Witnessing this level of brazen ignorance could cause brain cancer.

blood of jon snow!

Nihilist:
Lads easy on the mentions please

lol..deactivate account haha!

Nihilist:
Lads easy on the mentions please

lol, you should comment here too

raphieMontella:

blood of jon snow!

Lol.

Flexible come and prove to us that Humans Have Soul! To tell you the truth "You ignorant die" soul means different things to diff pple

GrizzlyBear:
The idea of nothing after death doesn't scare me, and it's not the underlying impetus for the premise of my post. What underpins my post, is that the totality of conscious human experience actually holds no objective meaning

What would an objective meaning for the totality of conscious human experience even look like? Does the idea of one even make sense?

Religion's answer is a chance at eternal paradise, but that imo isn't any more meaningful than what we already have going on. It's just a promise of more of the "good stuff" we're already capable of experiencing on earth. Merely a grasping towards more moments of joy/pleasure/love/security than the ones we're afforded as beings with limited life spans.

Ultimate objective meaning is only a concept that exists in human minds. I'd even go as far as to say that the phrase itself is an oxymoron. Meaning necessitates subjectivity; value can only ever be attributed by a consciousness evaluating it.

and whatever label of meaning we draw from our knowledge of our world and tie around it, is subjective.

Sure, I don't see anything wrong with this.

And when you apply this arbitrary, subjective process of ascribing meaning like you are doing, then anyone could justify their actions by attributing their own subjective meaning to whatever motivated those actions.

Certainly they could justify them. That doesn't mean they'd be justifiable from the perspective of society they are a part of. As a social species, it is our nature to tend to both our individual wants and needs and those of the society we belong to. The individual and the society will never be perfectly in sync.

That isn't a cause for disaster. We can still work with it, which we have increasingly been doing as humanity has progressed. It's only religious/ideological notions that tell us there should be some perfect moral code that is totally objective regardless of time period or culture. In reality that just isn't the case, and can't be. As social creatures with complex desires and impulses that aren't always compatible, compromise is a must.

Also, degree of expectations, or lack of, that we have about our world doesn't take or add from or to the issue of objective meaning or the futile nature of our existence.

It certainly does. Our expectations paint everything we see. Even your sentiments of futility, and evaluation of lack of ultimate objective meaning as necessarily problematic, are based off of pre-existing notions about how things should "ideally" be.

Even if one accepts the grim nature of his world and doesn't hold idealistic expectations, his end is still imminent. He is still a victim of vain struggle.

I still don't agree that the nature of reality is grim. That's assuming that a life free of suffering is how things should be.

From what criteria are you judging his life as vain? Because he doesn't get to live forever afterwards? What would a non-vain reason for existing look like to you?

He is still basically a "hedonistic survival robot."

Not necessarily. Having executive function allows us to go a step further. Self-sacrifice, delayed gratification, all that good stuff. Also, pleasure and joy/peace aren't quite the same thing. A person can have peace without seeking pleasure. Look into Buddhist philosophy if you haven't already.

Everything he does is an expression of his biological programming to survive and pass on his genes. Everything he experiences in the space between birth, reproduction and death, amounts to no cosmic value or any that he perceives. If he thinks it does, then he is a casualty of illusion.

Again, what would this "cosmic value" be if it existed? How would it be expressed, what would it look like?

We are all victims of unrealistic goals. That's why we are still alive. We all strive for happiness and love and fulfillment and peace. But these are miserable hopes that are unachievable to the degree in which we seek them, and sadly, they are what's keeping us alive.

How are those things unrealistic?

They just have to be approached with a more humble and realistic perspective than the one religion provides. Which is that happiness (as in pleasurable feelings) can't be the constant state of things due to how our brains work (staying alert for threat, making comparisons, focusing on the negative during times of stress), but peace can arise naturally once you let go of the idea that life needs to be a certain "ideal" way, and do the best you can with what is here now.

We can aver that making the world a better place for ourselves is our duty, but this is just a safety net and a coping mechanism that prevents us from peering into the dark, horrifying hole of reality. Creating rules that help us live in harmony is just a means of prolonging our futile existence. It's a foolish attempt at preserving and enabling the continuation of the pain, suffering and bleak end of every member of our species.

So because pain and suffering exist, life is not worth prolonging or living? I can't see that connection. Why does the mere presence of pain have to be the defining factor of whether or not living is worth it?

I still can't see what is so horrifying about reality. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems your view is biased towards the negative for no perceivable reason. Sometimes people confuse being realistic with being unnecessarily pessimistic.

If what happens when we die is just the same as before when we are born, then why spend a lifetime marred by pain, terror, uncertainty and endless struggle for survival, tinged with a comparably small degree of fleeting happiness and pleasure, just to arrive again at this era before birth? This defines the futility of our existence.

Who says that where we arrive has to be the point?

The idea of arrival at some point of perfection, complete absence of pain or what have you, is again, made up in my opinion. It's based on an incorrect view of how nature works (intentionally for or against us, rather than being a neutral re-organization of matter and energy that actually includes us). Painting life as "futile" and "horrifying" because it doesn't meet an ideal that was never real in the first place doesn't make any sense to me.

Hey grizzly, i woulda sworn you were in my head when you wrote this,to be frank the similarity of this post and whats in my head is similar to the DNA of humans and chimps. After i realised this truth, i realised why many went back to religion and you really cant blame, cuz i remember how hard and long it took me to accept that i'm just part of nature and not superior. For reals mehn this made me realise that no matter the gravity of attrition on religion, it would only wax stronger cuz accepting that there's no objective purpose for us can be extremely depressing, and just like you pointed out, this is where religion comes in. And to be truthful purpose keeps us going and peeps will fight you till the end to not take that away.
After this realisation, i found succour in the purposelessness by realising that all that we have done in this world after our consciousness evolved was to attach purpose to everything. We are freaking meaning attaching creatures, thats what i call us.

And cloudgoddess that first reply of yours can make a nigga propose, especially that analogy of the 10yr old boy and the promise, i mean i remember vividly wishing i had never been told about god, cuz that disappointment is just too overwhelming, really religions messed up when they sold the story that god is ominipotent, that keeps shooting god in the foot with the number of unmet expectations. I think people woulda chilled a bit if we got told earlier that god couldnt really do it all, or doesnt do at all, that way they would never have been expectations.