raphieMontella:

?? Elucidate

Majority of atheists criticize christianity. This ought not be so. If one is not a believer, one should pocket one's belief rather than resolute to rebuking Christianity perhaps for the sake of gaining admiration, having followers or being seen as significantly indifferent as is the case with many atheists in this forum.

raphieMontella:

your own words---------
''if atheists could answer my questions,i would be an atheist''

There is a difference between I will, If... and I will. or I have to.
And that difference is the condition.
I will be an atheist if my questions are answered.
I will be a Hinduist if Hinduism answers my questions.
I will become a Christian if Christianity answers my questions.

That doesn't mean I'm nurturing the intent to become a part of a particular religion only.
That I mentioned Atheism alone doesn't imply atheism only.

raphieMontella:

i am not an atheist...if that helps..

Peradventure you didn't include the condition part, that is ...if that helps... I wouldn't be wrong to think you are unconditionally not an atheist.

Anyways,
Yea...that sure helps.
Thanks for your time and contribution

Bluezy13:


Thanks a lot for your time.
To your answers;
(1) I would like to correct an impression; You cannot be an agnostic and an atheist at the same time. Agnosticism is rooted in uncertainty...that is when the belief on a supreme being or deity is uncertain or doubtful. While Atheism is rooted in certainty that there is no supreme being which is particularly God.
You cannot be uncertain and certain at the same thing.

(2) And in that village Every One believes that when a woman is on her period, if you touch her you will die. In this situation, we all know that such a belief is wrong, if we go against the norm of such a belief, we eventually find ourselves being persecuted,
The death here is it as result of touching the woman or persecution (like death penalty) ??
If the former, then it means one or two persons must have died after touching such a woman for there to be such a belief. If the later, then it is folly.

(3) You term it folly because you happen to have a different view either because you are not from that village or because you are opportuned to just to witness someone touch and did not die directly as a result of touching and not due to persecution or simply because you happen to be stubborn to that belief.
If it is because you are not from the village, then you have no right to term such a belief as folly.

(4) The overlisted beliefs are facts...natural truths...we all have no choice but to believe they happen. it is different from the belief regarding existentialism, supremacy and deity.

Conclusively, you didn't contribute in the regard of Atheism, theism etc nor in light of my questions.

1. For your first point. There is such a thing as agnostic atheism. You can Google it. Atheism in the sense of not believing in any religious gods but agnosticism in the sense of leaving the possibility of a deistic god open. Please read more on it. There are strong atheists who dismiss every claims of a god both the existing and the future claims of god. Those are your full atheists.

2. In many societies, uncleanliness is attached to some things. It might not be a woman, it might be a taboo to touch a tree, or to cross over someone. In these cases, there is no evidential reason to believe but fear rules and people don't want to take the risk. Are you not aware of such beliefs in Africa. I know of many and they are all wrong but no one has the confidence to go against societal norms.

3. I don't understand why I won't term it as folly. That means as long as a claim is made then it must be accepted. So what is the use of scientific investigation?
So every claim in every village must be accepted. That means in some south African villages where a goat is sacrificed when a child is born, it means that in reality a goat's blood is necessary for the good health of a child.
How can you say that? That's like saying gravity works in some places and doesn't work and that's very similar to religious belief. There are universally tested scientific facts, if an objection or so called anomaly to those facts is cited then it must be investigated in order to modify the scientific theory.
Am sorry but all the superstitious rural taboos are not scientific facts but primitive superstitions that can't be confirmed and are blatantly false. That's what I am trying to say, that people can believe in things even when they are not true, the mechanism of belief can be engineered by so many other factors apart from rational thought and reason.

4. Am happy you accepted them as facts. There is no difference between them and existentialism beliefs save that the latter is bigger and of much more significance.
Religious beliefs have some core beliefs as foundations.
For Christianity they have ;
- creation of the world in 4004 bc in six days[ the evidence points to a much much older earth]

- Adam and eve in the garden of eden and a talking snake [ the garden is as mythical as Olympus and till now hasn't been found, snakes don't talk and we haven't observed any snakes doing that]

- virgin birth[ no proof]

- geocentric universe which has been modified to fit scientific theory

- original sin[ human nature proves that we have a natural tendency to be selfish and we will make mistakes along the way, the same behavior can be observed in animals showing there was never a perfect world]

- eternal reward and damnation[ still no proof]

All the above listed beliefs and their rebuttals show that it is perfectly natural and rational to refuse such beliefs. One must not refute them because he belongs to an atheist club but we refute them because they are clearly untrue for those who take out time to reason and observe them.

Certitude:

The irony of it is that I began to find religion repulsive when I found out that christians all have their own version of morality. Most even see nothing wrong in vices such as exam malpractices, indecent dressing, sexual immorality e.t.c, yet they speak in tongues and claim to have the holy spirit. You, being an atheist, may not see these as bad but i'm sure you would agree with me that those shouln't be associated with christians.
I am not one who crave a carefree life but the effort in maintaining salvation is steep. I mean my sin which I would totally own up to is listening to secular music and prolonged anger,
I also find the idea of the Holy Spirit or should I say the annoiting unappealing because it seems to be violent. I don't want to pass out or fall under annointing.

lol..I also had lots of concerns about how the bible is interpreted. I had a friend who loved sleeping around with girls, but will turn around pushing me to fellowships and calling me names if I don't go. In fact, he speaks in tongues and claims he has recieved the spirit.
.
The truth is man interprets the Bible based on human selfish desires and not the other way round(not the bible influencing our choice of desires). Its the reason why people in immoral acts have a way of defending it with bible passages. its not that they saw the passage and decides to act, NO, they actually had such tendencies and searched deeply for bible passages to defend it. This cuts out to pastors collecting different forms of offerings, having bodyguards and ammasing wealth. They will rather look for weird and ambiguous explanations of passages backing tht God supports it, than to look at the simple new testaments which says that one should give up all he has and follow Jesus or the one which says that whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me. Its same reason people will ignore beggars on the road to only give a chunk of their finances to pastors believing that its a kind of investment. Religion or not, man remains man, we only take to religion to for some promised reward of sorts.

HardMirror:

If you want a sincere advice, DON'T BECOME AN ATHEIST.
Read your bible, pray and enjoy the friendship of christians (family and friends) but live your life to the fullest.

Lol. The definition of a confused fellow. You were told that outside Christ is not the place to be. You better drop pride and run back to Jesus. The sorrow after discovering the vanity of "living life to the fullest" is a terrible one. i can't pray it for my enemy.

Certitude:

The irony of it is that I began to find religion repulsive when I found out that christians all have their own version of morality. Most even see nothing wrong in vices such as exam malpractices, indecent dressing, sexual immorality e.t.c, yet they speak in tongues and claim to have the holy spirit. You, being an atheist, may not see these as bad but i'm sure you would agree with me that those shouln't be associated with christians.
I am not one who crave a carefree life but the effort in maintaining salvation is steep. I mean my sin which I would totally own up to is listening to secular music and prolonged anger,
I also find the idea of the Holy Spirit or should I say the annoiting unappealing because it seems to be violent. I don't want to pass out or fall under annointing.

How old are you pls?

Christianity becomes repulsive to you because of Christ who died for you or men who christ died for?

If you die today and meet Jesus, thats what you'll tell him?

GeneralTee:


I saw something about his reporting a brither died of fasting in 2010 and no one in FUTA being able to corroborate the story. And in one fell sweep Hus whole story is false.

OK. I'm relaying a story, reeling out lots of info and in an unorganized way, I very well can miss some details or relay a few from inadequate memory. It doesn't make my story untrue.

You guyà will do a little more to prove he's a fraud that just little information slip. I really don't have the time to look up other lies. Pls paste the links here.

Are you serious? You were in this forum and you didnt follow that up? Wonderful.

Anas09:

How old are you pls?

Christianity becomes repulsive to you because of Christ who died for you or men who christ died for?

If you die today and meet Jesus, thats what you'll tell him?

what are you even talking. It seems you are in support of the shady things most christians do.
Wait...you cheat in exam?

Certitude:


what are you even talking. It seems you are in support of the shady things most christians do.
Wait...you cheat in exam?

How old are you?

Anas09:

Are you serious? You were in this forum and you didnt follow that up? Wonderful.

He actually saw that he's just trying to derail this thread by bringing in that issue. If he has any questions or information on that he should make his response on that thread and not this or he should be silent forever

rhektor:


He actually saw that he's just trying to derail this thread by bringing in that issue. If he has any questions or information on that he should make his response on that thread and not this or he should be silent forever

Correct.

HardMirror:

If you want a sincere advice, DON'T BECOME AN ATHEIST.
Read your bible, pray and enjoy the friendship of christians (family and friends) but live your life to the fullest.

This thread by the OP and all the respondrnts have been so matured in discussions on this thread.

Interestingly, I believe Hardmirror spoke the truth but with some exaggerations. I have not condemned him. He was just overzealous for his atheistic believes.

Hardmirror was likely speaking some truth. He may have embellished the story in one or two places however, I think I believe his story.

I believe Hardmirror suffered from "Anti-Power Syndrome". Sorry, I had to coin that phrase:

"Anti-Power Syndrome" is a common experience within the christian ministers circle. It is an experience that can only be understood with experience. Let me try to explain it.

You prayed, a miracle happens BUT you feel nothing (nothing moved nor changed inside you). You are wondering,
this thing that just happened was it a coincidence?
Is the recipient faking it?
Yet the person is ecstatic, jumping up and down or the demonized person is manifesting while you are commanding in prayer. You see no angel, heard no sound saw no light...

You discover that whenever a miracle happens, its really not about you. You don't actually control the power, the power flows at his own will which do don't determine. You feel empty maybe it is not me! That is the syndrome. He broke down and lost his faith because he used to think that he had some power only to realize that he really doesn't control or own the power.

I agree, Hardmirror embellished his story. Let those who think they stand take heed...

There are two aspects of Christianity
1. The Religion
What we do as humans to please God
2. The Relationship
With the Father where you know Him and He knows you in a bond


Hardmirror can still come back and build the collapsed wall of his faith. Hardmirror knows quite well that Deos cannot be proved nor disproved with material things.

The Father above understand human frailties. He stands at the door of Hardmirrors heart with love saying except you never had a relationship with Me. Didn't Peter say " I never knew you..". He became one also crucified for Christ howbeit upside down.

As long as you have life, you have hope.
Hardmirror, you are still Loved!

Anas09:
How old are you?

14

Certitude:
14

Its shows

Anas09:
Its shows

You would believe anything.

Certitude:

You would believe anything.

No, really it shows.

Anas09:
No, really it shows.

ok

Anas09:
No, really it shows.

ok