hahn:


Research? From someone who believes that snakes and donkeys once talked?

How does this affect God's existence ?

KingEbukasBlog:


I still don't know why you are fixated on these two topics though . Since God controls all reality , he can put an idea on your subconscious mind. And the use of Qigong is basically understanding how the body works and effectively applying this knowledge to cure diseases etc . Its no different from the energy stone I use .

If this is why you why you stopped being a Christian , then a big sorry for you

Dafuq are you saying?
I knew about this after I left Christianity... Remember I'm a freethinker and I always search for truth

Anyways, this is not about the "body" (at least to some extent) but the "mind" and it's environment, which also gives birth to not only "healing", but also many "perceived spiritual matters".
And this was taught by Gnostics(Paul and some Bible authors included ), but misunderstood by interpretation(of what is written or experienced).

I still can't put all the pieces together(unanswered questions), I'm still observing and learning here on NL and elsewhere...

4kings:

Dafuq are you saying?
I knew about this after I left Christianity... Remember I'm a freethinker and I always search for truth

Anyways, this is not about the "body" (at least to some extent) but the "mind" and it's environment, which also gives birth to not only "healing", but also many "perceived spiritual matters".
And this was taught by Gnostics(Paul and some Bible authors included ), but misunderstood by interpretation(of what is written or experienced).

I still can't put all the pieces together(unanswered questions), I'm still observing and learning here on NL and elsewhere...

Paul was not a Gnostic . Funny guy . I think you are tad deluded to think so .

Let your freethinking don't lead you into where extrication would be near-impossible .

I'm not sure if there any benefits of Gnosticism - 'austerity in disguise' is a succinct description of Gnosticism

4kings:

Anyways, this is not about the "body" (at least to some extent) but the "mind" and it's environment, which also gives birth to not only "healing", but also many "perceived spiritual matters"...

This does not affect Christian beliefs in any way . I don't think it can cause anyone to lose sleep even for a moment . But you can elucidate , maybe it could elicit the kind of reaction you imagined . Still don't get what the fuss'z about ...

KingEbukasBlog:


Paul was not a Gnostic . Funny guy . I think you are tad deluded to think so .

Let your freethinking don't lead you into where extrication would be near-impossible .

I'm not sure if there any benefits of Gnosticism - 'austerity in disguise' is a succinct description of Gnosticism

Lol, I no get ur time now, we'll discuss Bible and Gnosticism later on....
But remember, I'm not Gnostic or Spiritual yet, I just investigates different options...

KingEbukasBlog:


This does not affect Christian beliefs in any way . I don't think it can cause anyone to lose sleep even for a moment . But you can elucidate , maybe it could elicit the kind of reaction you imagined . Still don't get what the fuss'z about ...

Of course(in a way) it doesn't, I just said Paul and some Bible authors might have had this idea in mind...

The "fuss" is supernatural or a different reality(I'm just examining it's possibility)...

4kings:

Lol, I no get ur time now, we'll discuss Bible and Gnosticism later on....
But remember, I'm not Gnostic or Spiritual yet, I just investigates different options...

I'm not sure why you are giving the impression that spirituality outside Christianity would be of any benefit . Care you enlighten me ?

4kings:

Of course(in a way) it doesn't, I just said Paul and some Bible authors might have had this idea in mind...

What idea ?

The "fuss" is supernatural or a different reality(I'm just examining it's possibility)...

Anything is tagged supernatural nowadays , so define supernatural

KingEbukasBlog:


What idea ?



Anything is tagged supernatural nowadays , so define supernatural

Shebi, I don give you link for this before, you even talk say you go check am for future discussion...
http://www.spiritofthescripture.com/

Anyways, "Supernatural" or "Spiritual" are words I use for events that are very rare and mystical(kind of) .. Nothing more

4kings:

Shebi, I don give you link for this before, you even talk say you go check am for future discussion...
http://www.spiritofthescripture.com/

Gnosticism predates Christianity , its a total movement on its own . Why do you think Gnosticism should be considered ?

Anyways, "Supernatural" or "Spiritual" are words I use for events that are very rare and mystical(kind of) .. Nothing more

Ok... Do you see God as supernatural ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Gnosticism predates Christianity , its a total movement on its own . Why do you think Gnosticism should be considered ?

Nice, at least you used the word "Considered", that's a step.

Its intensely Psychological and it seems it has lot of info on the mind.

Ok... Do you see God as supernatural ?

Yes

4kings:

Nice, at least you used the word "Considered", that's a step.

Its intensely Psychological and it seems it has lot of info on the mind.

I can same about Christianity . A Muslim can say same about Islam .

So ...

Yes

Why do you see God as supernatural ?

KingEbukasBlog:


I can same about Christianity . A Muslim can say same about Islam .

So ...

Lmao, what sort of self-deception is this...

Why do you see God as supernatural ?

Beyond scientific understanding...

4kings:

Lmao, what sort of self-deception is this...

Lol .You are funny sha .

You haven't given me a good reason to what makes Gnosticism special .

Beyond scientific understanding...

Do you think we can unify God and nature ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol .You are funny sha .

You haven't given me a good reason to what makes Gnosticism special .

Seriously...
Anyways, do u take out time to just think(meditate) deeply on issues once in a while "with an open-mind"(without the delusion of HolySpirit ) just for the sake of TRYING to seek answers or truth(Gnosis ) ?
***Emphasis on Open-mind***

Do you think we can unify God and nature ?

We can.

4kings:
Seriously...
Anyways, do u take out time to just think(meditate) deeply on issues once in a while "with an open-mind"just for the sake of TRYING to seek answers or truth(Gnosis ) ?
***Emphasis on Open-mind***

Someone says "open mind" and then thinks another possibility to get something is false or delusion . It looks like "open mind " has been redefined .

What makes you think that Gnosticism is true ?

With an open mind , Christianity is true

We can.

How ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Someone says "open mind" and then thinks another possibility to get something is false or delusion . It looks like "open mind " has been redefined .

What makes you think that Gnosticism is true ?

With an open mind , Christianity is true

Simple question dey hard you to answer abi...

How ?

"Panendeism" - God part of nature but transcends it...
I thought I've answered this before.

4kings:
Simple question dey hard you to answer abi...

You didnt ask a question ooo

"Panendeism" - God part of nature but transcends it...
I thought I've answered this before.

So are you a panendeist ?

KingEbukasBlog:


You didnt ask a question ooo

Please read again, I even ended with a question mark. Haba!

So are you a panendeist ?

I incorporate panendeistic views.
I'm beginning to hate labels.

4kings:

Please read again, I even ended with a question mark. Haba!

With an open mind , Christianity is true - I have meditated with an open mind and I found Christianity to be true .

I incorporate panendeistic views.
I'm beginning to hate labels.

But you want to be seen as a freethinker

KingEbukasBlog:


With an open mind , Christianity is true - I have meditated with an open mind and I found Christianity to be true .

Please what were your reasons?

But you want to be seen as a freethinker

A freethinker can incorporate views from panendeism, pantheism, Gnosticism, Buddhism, mechanism, FSM and so on, gedit?

Deism does not fully cover my philosophy(apart from the God idea), so when discussing I like using "Freethinker" for the sake of simplicity.

4kings:

Please what were your reasons?

Christian theism portrays best the expected nature of this maximally great being who created the universe .

A freethinker can incorporate views from panendeism, pantheism, Gnosticism, Buddhism, mechanism, FSM and so on, gedit?

Deism does not fully cover my philosophy(apart from the God idea), so when discussing I like using "Freethinker" for the sake of simplicity.

I incorporate so many views into my theories but I'm still a Christian

KingEbukasBlog:


Christian theism portrays best the expected nature of this maximally great being who created the universe .

How?

I incorporate so many views into my theories but I'm still a Christian

I know you get my point, so what the heck is this misrepresentation for

Go check for the meaning of "freethinker"

Ok, I'm a Freethinking Deist.

4kings:
How?

A maximally great being who created the universe should

1. Gives us moral laws in accordance to Its nature

2. Love unconditionally

3. Be omnipotent , omnipresent , eternal , immutable , Perfect in nature , cognitively perfect

4. Intervene in the universe

5. Interact and have personal relationships with humans (Reveal itself to man )

Etc .

I know you get my point, so what the heck is this misrepresentation for

Go check for the meaning of "freethinker"

Ok, I'm a Freethinking Deist.

You deserve an award for coining that term

Why do you think God is an impersonal creator ?

First of all, the points raised are just speculations without reason.

KingEbukasBlog:


A maximally great being who created the universe should

1. Gives us moral laws in accordance to Its nature

Are these laws indwelling or sent by deluded men

2. Love unconditionally

I can't believe you actually picked this point.
Yahweh does not have unconditional love, the Bible itself proves this.

3. Be omnipotent , omnipresent , eternal , immutable , Perfect in nature , cognitively perfect

The Bible also disproves this.

4. Intervene in the universe

5. Interact and have personal relationships with humans (Reveal itself to man )

Etc .

Wow, so is he doing a good job, "intervening"?

You deserve an award for coining that term

Why do you think God is an impersonal creator ?

I told you I'm a freethinker ... Just keep this in mind then read.

"Personhood" and "Personal Creator" are two different things to me. Ok!
"Personhood", in this context just means the ability to "think" or a "transcendental mind"
Hold on, before you bite me, God's thinking Is in a different order, from ours, and interactions or demigods are far from what I'm saying.

An impersonal God is as good as an inanimate object, A personal God is delusion 100%

See, I don't like being at "extremes" but weird, Damn introvert.

God is an energy, has a mind and does not interact.
Therefore I can't put this into "Personal or Impersonal".

God is a "transcendental being".

4kings:
First of all, the points raised are just speculations without reason.

Olodo , the properties of the First Cause deduced through Logic and reasoning correlate with the Christian conception of God ; philosophically and theologically too .

4kings:
Are these laws indwelling or sent by deluded men

Anyone can experience Jesus Christ - historical evidence and experiences from numerous believers and non believers support this .

4kings:
I can't believe you actually picked this point.
Yahweh does not have unconditional love, the Bible itself proves this.

List the bible verses

The Bible also disproves this.

List the bible verses

4kings:
Wow, so is he doing a good job, "intervening"?

What you are doing is called presupposition and it makes your argument not worthwhile to even respond to .

4kings:
I told you I'm a freethinker ... Just keep this in mind then read.

Calling yourself a freethinker is no carte blanche to elicit egregious thoughts; also seeing that there is no evidence for rationality in your thoughts .

4kings:
"Personhood" and "Personal Creator" are two different things to me. Ok!
"Personhood", in this context just means the ability to "think" or a "transcendental mind"
Hold on, before you bite me, God's thinking Is in a different order, from ours, and interactions or demigods are far from what I'm saying.

An impersonal God is as good as an inanimate object, A personal God is delusion 100%

See, I don't like being at "extremes" but weird, Damn introvert.

God is an energy, has a mind and does not interact.
Therefore I can't put this into "Personal or Impersonal".

God is a "transcendental being".

This has to be the most daft objection to the existence of a Personal God . The worst ever

You are making dumb assertions with no reason to back it up . How you think you are a freethinker is beyond me !

If calling yourself a freethinker gives you the freedom of having foolish thoughts then I must say , it suits you

Anyway , here are three reasons why I see God as a personal God


1. Imagine the law of cause and effect existing in timeless eternity . Example : 0 degree Celsius (cause ) , Frozen water (effect) . That means if this should take place in a timeless eternity then frozen water should always be . That is to say since God exists in timeless eternity as a cause , then the effect which is the universe should co-exist with God . But since the universe is created then it shows that God has the will to lead to its cause . And since it shows that God can act on Its own volition , then he is a personal God . A personal God is saliently implied in his timelessness and freedom of will since he set out and created a new effect which is the universe without any antecedent determining conditions . Ergo , God also has the freedom of will to intervene in the affairs of the universe and of men .

2. Another reason is that God I see God as a personal creator is that He has revealed Himself to mankind through Jesus Christ - historical evidence supports the existence of Christ . Christ interacted with men and intervened in the sense that He laid his life to save us from imminent danger . The miracles Christ performed prove that God is a personal creator - because miracles are interventions .

3. The creator is an unembodied mind or consciousness involved in causal relation - brought the universe into being .

KingEbukasBlog:


Olodo , the properties of the First Cause deduced through Logic and reasoning correlate with the Christian conception of God ; philosophically and theologically too .

I think you mean "Principle" right?, however, this applies to other religions also.

Anyone can experience Jesus Christ - historical evidence and experiences from numerous believers and non believers support this .

non-believers like...?

List the bible verses

List the bible verses

Stop being dishonest.

What you are doing is called presupposition and it makes your argument not worthwhile to even respond to .

Haba, just that simple question, u no fit answer...

Calling yourself a freethinker is no carte blanche to elicit egregious thoughts; also seeing that there is no evidence for rationality in your thoughts .

This has to be the most daft objection to the existence of a Personal God . The worst ever

You are making dumb assertions with no reason to back it up . How you think you are a freethinker is beyond me !

If calling yourself a freethinker gives you the freedom of having foolish thoughts then I must say , it suits you
,
Anyway , here are three reasons why I see God as a personal God


1. Imagine the law of cause and effect existing in timeless eternity . Example : 0 degree Celsius (cause ) , Frozen water (effect) . That means if this should take place in a timeless eternity then frozen water should always be . That is to say since God exists in timeless eternity as a cause , then the effect which is the universe should co-exist with God . But since the universe is created then it shows that God has the will to lead to its cause . And since it shows that God can act on Its own volition , then he is a personal God . A personal God is saliently implied in his timelessness and freedom of will since he set out and created a new effect which is the universe without any antecedent determining conditions .

This in no way, disproves what I said.

Ergo , God also has the freedom of will to intervene in the affairs of the universe and of men .

However, here's where the issue lies, that's why I chose not to use the word "personal God"

2. Another reason is that God I see God as a personal creator is that He has revealed Himself to mankind through Jesus Christ - historical evidence supports the existence of Christ . Christ interacted with men and intervened in the sense that He laid his life to save us from imminent danger . The miracles Christ performed prove that God is a personal creator - because miracles are interventions .

The Christ you know never existed, for goodness sake there is no contemporary record of the guy. I don't want to go over this long argument again.

3. The creator is an unembodied mind or consciousness involved in causal relation - brought the universe into being .

Still doesn't go against what I said.

You clearly didn't read what I posted, you just made assumptions, that's why you are posting these irrelevant points.
I brought up the idea of "personhood" which covers your 1st point.
I told you I don't completely agree with the idea of "personal or impersonal" God and tried to make a balance, which you didn't even address at all.

Only the second point and "interaction" which you mentioned, are relevant to what I said.
So let's get into it; of course the only evidence suitable for a personal God is experience, however your example(only reasonable one I know) "Jesus Christ" his existence is debatable, I've gone over this before here on NL.

Anyways, apart from Jesus, there's no evidence supporting a "personal God ", full stop.

4kings:

The Christ you know never existed, for goodness sake there is no contemporary record of the guy. I don't want to go over this long argument again.

I've always known you to be very deluded and extremely ignorant so I'm not surprised

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-evidence-for-jesus

Please don't repeat this comment anywhere to save yourself from embarrassment ...biko!

4kings:

Still doesn't go against what I said.

You clearly didn't read what I posted, you just made assumptions, that's why you are posting these irrelevant points.
I brought up the idea of "personhood" which covers your 1st point.
I told you I don't completely agree with the idea of "personal or impersonal" God and tried to make a balance, which you didn't even address at all.

Only the second point and "interaction" which you mentioned, are relevant to what I said.
So let's get into it; of course the only evidence suitable for a personal God is experience, however your example(only reasonable one I know) "Jesus Christ" his existence is debatable, I've gone over this before here on NL.

Anyways, apart from Jesus, there's no evidence supporting a "personal God ", full stop.

Its funny how you give extremely poor reasons for rejecting a proposition then have the audacity to make conclusions - I'm very certain that you don't understand your own "rebuttal " . Maybe you should pay attention to what points 1 and 3 mean - since God has shown to have the freedom of will in creating the universe (having a beginning ) as an unembodied mind/consciousness then he can intervene in the affairs of the universe as a way of expressing that volition or freedom of will .

I implore you to retrace your steps to God . Your reasons for being in your current position are very very bad . You don't make any sense young man

@4kings

Let me inject you with more sense

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites

Here are sects that immediately came into existence after Christ's death . If there was no Christ , then these sects with differing views about Christ's divinity won't have been founded .

Christ died around AD 30-33 and the Ebionites were believed to have come into prominence around AD 70 - 40 years after Christ died . They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity

KingEbukasBlog:


I've always known you to be very deluded and extremely ignorant so I'm not surprised

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-evidence-for-jesus

Please don't repeat this comment anywhere to save yourself from embarrassment ...biko!

Ebuka why you waste my time like this na...

What I read there were fallacies of "appeal to authority" without any shred of REASONABLE evidence, so much for its name "reasonable"

I'm not sure you actually read it, just take a look at their weak conclusion:

In summary, the gospels are not only trustworthy documents in general, but as we look at some of the most important aspects of Jesus in the gospels, like his radical personal claims, his miracles, his trial and crucifixion, and his resurrection, their historical veracity shines through. God has acted in history, and we can knowit.

SMH.

A historical figure(rabbi) MIGHT have existed, but there's still no CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE for the existence of Jesus the man of miracle and virgin birth.

Quote me with something reasonable next time.

KingEbukasBlog:
@4kings

Let me inject you with more sense

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites

Here are sects that immediately came into existence after Christ's death . If there was no Christ , then these sects with differing views about Christ's divinity won't have been founded .

Christ died around AD 30-33 and the Ebionites were believed to have come into prominence around AD 70 - 40 years after Christ died . They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity

You like embarrassing yourself...
Thats why I said a mere historical figure might have existed.
The ebionite never recognized the divinity of Jesus, but only saw him as a Messiah for jews.
If you are bringing them up for this argument(also considering the small years apart), then Jesus Christ was just a man.