modupe01:

Give me the name of Esau in the Qur'an and I will give you the evidence of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.  Deal?

he is not mentioned in the quran. It is not all the prophet that was mentioned in the bible that was mentioned in the quran.

In that case, that makes the Qur'an an incomplete book. Hoe can u anchor ur life on such book?

Do not be brainwashed. What is the criteria for judging a perfect book.

The Qur'an is not a sufficient support for your claim. It can never be. How can u talk about the death of Jesus when the Qur'an does not give the detailed of Jesus.

sokislam:

The Qur'an is not a sufficient support for your claim. It can never be. How can u talk about the death of Jesus when the Qur'an does not give the detailed of Jesus.

did i ever quote the quran for you if it is not that you asked me? I know you do not accept the quran, therefore it would be foolish for me to be forcing a thing which you dont accept on you. The topic says that you should bring forth evidences from your scriptures, to prove that jesus really died on the cross and not latter. Not that you quote that some certain verse says he died, you present circumstances which also prove so.
I will also like to ask if you believe science to be true or false?

sokislam:

The Qur'an is not a sufficient support for your claim. It can never be. How can u talk about the death of Jesus when the Qur'an does not give the detailed of Jesus.

did i ever quote the quran for you if it is not that you asked me? I know you do not accept the quran, therefore it would be foolish for me to be forcing a thing which you dont accept on you. The topic says that you should bring forth evidences from your scriptures, to prove that jesus really died on the cross and not latter. Not that you quote that some certain verse says he died, you present circumstances which also prove so.
I will also like to ask if you believe science to be true or false?

Niyi, what are u going to do with countless of biblical verses that were quoted earlier? why are u just being dogmatic.

Let start, i know that jesus prophesised his going in to the heart of the earth the same way jonah went into the belly of the whale. Matt. 12:40. Pls explain the similarity which occured?

I would like a christian to pls explain the similarity which occured between jesus and jonah. Matt. 12:40

That is a simple thing to understand if u are aware of the ways the jews count their day. I will be glad to lecture u on that.

You need to understand that the Jewish day does not begin and end at midnight as does the secular calendar day. Midnight is not a distinguishable astronomic event. In the era before the modern clock, a specific hour of the night could not be precisely known, whereas an hour of the day was easily determined by sighting the location of the sun. Thus, the day had to begin by precise, simple and universally recognized standards. This meant that the day had to be reckoned either from the beginning of night or the beginning of day.

In Jewish time, the day begins with the onset of night followed by the morning . According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. That is why the Bible says "And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

That's why you see them saying stuff like, 12th hour, 3rd hour etc. That is exactly they way they observed their timing. And as mentioned earlier, a half of the day for the Jews is a whole. They count in 12 hours while we count with 24 hours. With this background information in mind u can better be cleared as to the sign of jonah.

Hope you are getting it brother?

Mt 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Mt 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Mt 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the[i] ninth hour[/i].

Here are examples of the explanation. Wish u the best in understanding my brother.

@askat: « #5 on: November 27, 2009, 04:25 PM »

@Niyi53, it is you that is contradicting yourself. How can a someone go to the grave without death. mat 12-40 is not talking about the rescue of Jesus. Jesus was talking about Jonah as a sign for the people that He was going to be in the grave for three days. If you are not clear with KJV read another version for clarity.read it from vs 38 to 42

When did Cave becomes Grave? Cave is a natural hollow/space in the earth, like where Osama bin Laden is reported to be hiding in the Tora Bora tribal regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Grave is normally dug out to specifically put a dead body and must be filled back with the dead. Lol.

Tell me if Bin Laden who remains in the cave has been dead for over 8 years, now, making him a better miracle man than Biblical Jesus, No? As much as I admire your challenging Niyi53 about Jesus death since he believes that he also dies, your position is completely wrong and ignorance because of your religion. Nyi53 wrong position is because of lack of good understanding of Quran because Allah says also that if Muhammad dies, will you turn your back on Islam? When the verse was revealed Muhammad was still alive!

@Niyi53, was the above telling you that Muhammad was already died at the time of the verse? The answer would be no. Further, there would not be any reason to return Jesus alive to earth to fight Massiah Dijjal, etc if he was already dead! He would only be raise from his grave in India, if that is the case. Please improve your aqeedah!

@Twend:« #4 on: November 27, 2009, 04:15 PM »

niyi ,yje 4 gospel showed clearly dat JESUS CHRIST was nailed to the cross,check out wat JOHN 19vs15,18 & 23,LUKE 23v 21, MARK 15v 24, MATTHEW 27vs 22-31. All the gospel neva hid the fact that JESUS was nailed on d cross & shed his blood 4 d redemission o our sin.

Being nailed does not mean being dead! Being shot even though it is more deadly than being nailed, neither always translate to being dead! And if a person were to die on the cross, according to the Israelites his soul is cursed. With this type of heavy cursu=ing how can blessing as said "redemssion" come out of a cursed soul? Shouldnt the soul be saved for the heavy curse, first? lol.

@Chukwudi44: « #12 on: November 28, 2009, 02:54 PM »

At least christians have evidene poutside the bible to prove the crucification of Jesus and the existence of christianty during the roman era but there is no evidence anywhere outside the koran to substantiate the claim that islam existed before prophet mohamed.

These swiss chess argument gives muslims greater armonitions. Let me ask you, before Jesus or during Jesus, were there Christians? If there were none, please let me define Christianity to you: It means Christ-like. What is Christ-like? I will expect that it is to act like Jesus in everything, including his worship method with his Lord, as he say that his Lord and God is but One God. I will expect such a person to prostrate his face as jesus did in the garden of Gashesmane.

Now, I ask, what is Islam? Islam is the act of submission of one'e will to the Will of God. Jesus submitted his will to the Will of God, as he said in the Bible " not as my will but Your Will". All other prophets (AS) before Jesus, Noah, who built the ark as God Commanded (a Will), Ibrahim are just two examples submitted their wills to the "Will" of God! This shows that Muhammad (AS) and his followers, the muslims are in the same phase of will submitters as all the previous will submitters (prophets (AS) and those who followed them, foot to foot, step by step).

The roman historian tacitus confirmed the death of Jesus in the first century
Tacitus writes

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired

First century is first 100 years. Just imagine if a lie had been passed around for the last 70 years of that century. Do you expect the writer to say anything different? Imagine a thing that happened after 911, or what did not happened. There was no yellow cake from Niger republic to Iraq, but Dick Cheney managed to repeat that lie enough that Colin Powell staked his reputation, legacy on it and the war began in Iraq! Thats less than 10 years, this decade, still, so imagine how gullible people are to a lie that has existed for a century. Do you think that anyone will know it was a lie, except a challenge to that lie as the Quran made it bringing about the truth, full circle, reawakening it?

@askat: « #17 on: November 28, 2009, 09:21 PM »

@ niyi, I will say that it is both, because God reveals to them by allowing them to see it.

Go and check the bible especially KJV. the book of matthew is titled '' THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO MATTHEW '' likewise mark,luke and John.

The Word of God is forever settled in Heaven. It is a mystery and No one can question God about it. That is why the Bible says, No one is permitted to add to it or to remove from it.

And then Paul came with the Epistles! No? Thank God you said the case og Jesus is with God, alne, and at least you didnt say the case of Jesus is with Jesus alone!

@Modupe01: « #27 on: Yesterday at 02:52:41 PM »

Quote from: Abuzola 1 on November 28, 2009, 11:27 PM
Shut up, jesus is Isa
Can you tell us what you then call Esau in the Qur'an?

Esau the biblical brother of Jacob, the other son of Ibrahim, apart of Ismail and Isiaq, the sons of Yaqub, except Yusuf and all the daughters of these men, none of them was mentioned by name in the Quran! I can tell you that what you have in the Bible is not necessarily going to find the light of day i the Quran!

Like all the sexualities of Isaac, jacob's conning actions in the Bible, we do not have in the Quran!

@sokislam: « #33 on: Yesterday at 05:15:48 PM »

It is a pity that the Muslims don't understand their Qur'an, and they are taking a step further to interpret the Bible. The death of Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an. But they take no time to study it.

Well, if u need evidence I will provide it.

Please show me in the Quran where I can read that Jesus died on the cross? Or in India as Niyi53 is saying?

Let me be funnyfor a moment, while being honest; can you tell us what will become of the earth, after Jesus returns? And according to you, a christian, especially after he raptured you, taking you to Christian heaven? Or is the earth that heaven? Lol.

@Askat: « #46 on: Yesterday at 08:31:12 PM »

Quote from: Abuzola 1 on Yesterday at 08:15:12 PM
Sokisalam, jesus didn't die, even if jesus die it means your god died, so whats the jig. Although some scholar believe he died and raised up but not by crucifiction but a natural death

When Quran says Jesus did not did, then it means he did not on earth, yet! When Quran says he was raised up, he was not said that he was raised as dead man but a living human being. It is not so unusual consideing that Muhammad (AS) was lifted to heavens and returned to earth, body and soul, alive. Jesus returning on earth is multipurposed; for sure part of the signs of the last hour. He will fight and defeat the anti-Christ, break the cross, kill the pig, pray with the Muslims, not as a leader but as a member/the larger congregation behind Al Mahdi, then die and be raised up, both of them being peaceful events in the land of the prophets and not in far away India, where no prophet from the progeny of Ibrahim (AS) ever gone to live and then die there! Any scholar who believed that he died in India is wrong. If he arried at this opinion in pure scholastic effort to explain with any hypocracy, then we pray that Allah accepts his effort and not punish him for wrong conclusion, since there is correct conclusion with the muslims, already!

I agree my God died but He died so that I will not die ( eternal death ), but even though He died He rose up the third day and that show that He is the Son of God.

There should be consistency in the two death or lack of. Why will the death of Jesus be physical and this cant prevent your physical death? Why will he not eternally die so that it can prevent your eternal death? You cant be passing up apple as oranges, though both fruits, but they are different!

How great is the love Jesus have for us, He is a up in Heaven and He left His glory and came down to the earth to die for us. How many Human being can do that even for his blood brother.

Thank Allah that you call Jesus what he was; a human being! By the way, Jesus did not show love, forgiveness to an obvious contemporary of his; the thief on the cross the left side of his hanging tree!

@Askat: « #49 on: Yesterday at 08:58:56 PM »

death do not overcome Him, He overcame death. death has no power over Him, that is why He rose up from the dead.
Jesus has to die in our place because once we are dead, nothing more. but He has overcome death on our behalf so that we can die ( spiritual death) no more.

If dead did not overcome Jesus, this is a proof that he did not die! If you said he died, then death overcame him at least when you said he died! You can not deny that he did overcome death always and say that he died, that there is a problem with the two? Which one is it? Jesus did not overcome death at some point or he overcame death, always? By the way if the situation of jesus is phsical, then the recirprocity for you should be physical, too. If it is spiritual, then yours should be spiritual. Thats consistency!

But you that has not recieved Jesus, after physical death, you are gone for life. hell straight without hold up. Repent, I am telling you now o!

Am sure Abuzola does not want to go to Christian heaven. Please define heaven and what are in there; Hell and Paradise and other things?

@Askat: « #52 on: Yesterday at 09:15:35 PM »

ye of little knowledge, and you said that you are reading your bible. you are only reading it to find faults, you do not read the whole story of Jesus from matthew to john.

you said Jesus never intended to die, then tell me what His mission is on earth. Jesus told the people of His death even before they plan to kill Him matt 26:1-5.

I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of israel! Thi is his only mission on earth. Please show me where he says "I am sent to die for your sin, or so that you might have spiritual life"?

@sokisalam- you are being ignorant, jesus was killed by his enemy.


There is no record that the jews count their days by night or day, even abraham's era was 24's hr routine, your lie does not even fit the shoe.

@Askat: « #65 on: Today at 10:33:06 AM »  

In that case, that makes the Qur'an an incomplete book. Hoe can u anchor your life on such book?

Quran says Adam, Enoch, Noah, Ibrahim, Lut, Ismail, Isiaq, Yaqub, (None of them is Children of Israil), Yusuf, etc  Harun, Sulaiman, Dauda, Zakariyyah, Yahya his son, etc were Messengers and or prophets. The Bible says many of them are not even prophets, and definitely not Messenger(s), while claiming that even Adam was Hebrew or israelite as if there was any tribe especially when mankind was just a single family, Adam and his wife and his children and grandchildren, and even great grandchildren, etc! Was Hebrew or israelite the first tribe or people on earth? No, for sure! Does this not render the Bible completely incomplete?

By the way, name all the daughters of Jacob on the pages of the Bible. If you cant, then the bible is totally incomplete, again? What are the names of the children of Adam, or he only had one child, cain since he killed abel? I can just drag you all over the places with the names of children of the notables in the Bible, asking you to mention all of them! If you miss any of them, then another chance to say that the Bible is incomplete. See?

@sokislam: « #73 on: Today at 12:17:49 PM »

That is a simple thing to understand if u are aware of the ways the jews count their day. I will be glad to lecture u on that.

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sokislam (m)
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Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross.
« #74 on: Today at 12:26:41 PM »

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You need to understand that the Jewish day does not begin and end at midnight as does the secular calendar day. Midnight is not a distinguishable astronomic event. In the era before the modern clock, a specific hour of the night could not be precisely known, whereas an hour of the day was easily determined by sighting the location of the sun. Thus, the day had to begin by precise, simple and universally recognized standards. This meant that the day had to be reckoned either from the beginning of night or the beginning of day.

In Jewish time, the day begins with the onset of night followed by the morning . According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. That is why the Bible says "And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

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Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross.
« #75 on: Today at 12:37:08 PM »

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That's why you see them saying stuff like, 12th hour, 3rd hour etc. That is exactly they way they observed their timing. And as mentioned earlier, a half of the day for the Jews is a whole. They count in 12 hours while we count with 24 hours. With this background information in mind u can better be cleared as to the sign of jonah.

Hope you are getting it brother?

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Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross.
« #76 on: Today at 12:43:34 PM »

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Mt 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Mt 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Mt 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Here are examples of the explanation. Wish u the best in understanding my brother.

You are asked to show that Jesus died, you gave all the above, without any shred of evidence that Jesus died in any of the above verses? You are a surprise.

@Abuzola, the Bani Israil measure their day from Sunsown to another sundown, Magrib to Magrib like Muslims!

Thanks sir olabowale: this shows that the guy is a liar

Hmnnnnnnnnnn,what then should i say again.
We have too many of Pharisees on this thread.

You don't need to say anything cos we have revealed the devil in ur God

Abuzola personally I cant blame you for your unbelieve. I know that if you were born to a Christain home, you will not think if islam as right religion. and if I was born to in a muslim home I will not think of Christainity as the right religion. but people that were born in a muslim home and now discoverd that it is christainity the God planned for their life are giving their life to christ. I have met almost 20 christain that was once a muslim.

@ Abuzola, I am going to ask you a simple question. Who wrote the Quran? please answer me correctly.

olabowale:

@Modupe01: « #27 on: Yesterday at 02:52:41 PM » Esau the biblical brother of Jacob, the other son of Ibrahim, apart of Ismail and Isiaq, the sons of Yaqub, except Yusuf and all the daughters of these men, none of them was mentioned by name in the Quran! I can tell you that what you have in the Bible is not necessarily going to find the light of day i the Quran!

Like all the sexualities of Isaac, jacob's conning actions in the Bible, we do not have in the Quran!

All I can get from what you wrote above is that Esau is not written in the Qur'an, if you don't, what do you call it in the arabic language?

kola oloye:

Hmnnnnnnnnnn,what then should i say again.
We have too many of Pharisees on this thread.

Hi kola,

It seems the muslims here don't know what they call Esau in the arabic language, can you help us decipher this conundrum.

Aksat if i were born a xtrian i would ve embrace islam cos is absurd to worship a god that died once upon a time.

The companions wrote the Quran