ronkeenuf:

like the Bible has been reviewed over and over till it the 'current stage' abi. Thanks but no thanks, we will stick to God' words as it is, accept it or leave it. The Quran has no violent content, it only depends on how you interpret it. If you continue to interpret it like you have 'misinterpreted' Abuzola, you continue arriving at the wrong conclusion.

Who says the Quran is God's words.

Satan was able to fool Muhammed and cast his words into muhammed's tongue. Muhammed was not able to discern when satan was casting his words into his mouth because he was never a prophet.

So your Quran are bunch of satanic verses. That is why muslims are so wicked, vicious, violent. They act with utter stupidity and without common sense. If Islamic cult system is eradicated, there will be peace on earth because 99% of wars are caused by Muhammedan Islam.

Jarus:

. . .and you think that was written by Abuzola?

What makes you think it is NOT ABUZOLA. Abuzola is a master in disguising

MR aloy-emeka, your question can be summarized by the following one verse of the glorious Quran.

[39:29]  GOD cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to GOD; most of them do not know.


As u can see from above, i have put in bracket what God intends for us to derive from such a profound question. To answer the question put forth by GOD in above is to answer with the mono syllabic word, NO. they indeed are not the same.

the reason the muslims of today are at odds with each other, is cos they have let go of the consistent source(Quran), in favor of the contradictory fabrications attributed to the prophet muhammad by the evil schemers. what a miserable decision. As u know, a hadith by one author is usually in disagreement with another hadith by another author. Sometimes even by the same author. i mean to say grave contradictions exist therein.

In short, the hadith, which surfaced some two centuries after the death of prophet muhammad, is the root cause to the splitting of the muslims(submitters) into sects,and the cause to their fall. the Hadith was the source where these various school of thoughts get their sources from. if they all where following one consistent source, do u think there will be any disparity in their beliefs?? NEVER!  instead, they chose the hadith(fabrications) above the infallible Quran. miserable indeed is what they decided.

thus, u can see the implication of the earth shattering question by GOD in the above mentioned verse.

little wonder, the prophet muhammad himself will complain to GOD on the day of judgment, that his followers (muslims of today) have indeed deserted(abandoned) the Quran


[25:30]  The messenger  will say, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

MR aloy-emeka, i put it to u that, in light of Quran alone, no one will ever be able to show that any discrepancy does exist in the infallible scripture, QURAN. this is an open challenge to you and any group or person(s) u feel otherwise.

i am a submitter(muslim) to GOD alone, Not lip service.  if u wanna know what my beliefs are, and that of the true followers of the scripture(QURAN) is, then follow this link.www.submission.org



[7:185]  Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith(fabiayyi haditheem), beside this(Quran), do they believe in?


[12:111]  In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith(ma kana hadithan); this (Quran) [/b]confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

[31:6]  Among the people, there are those who [b]uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.


[39:23]  GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith(Quran); a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for GOD's message. Such is GOD's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by GOD, nothing can guide them.


[45:6]  These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?


     Hadith & Sunna:
     Fabrications by the Prophet's Enemies

[6:112]  We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

[6:113]  This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.



PEACE!!!

@t.truth; « #32 on: February 16, 2010, 12:23 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: ronkeenuf on February 16, 2010, 11:32 AM
like the Bible has been reviewed over and over till it the 'current stage' abi. Thanks but no thanks, we will stick to God' words as it is, accept it or leave it. The Quran has no violent content, it only depends on how you interpret it. If you continue to interpret it like you have 'misinterpreted' Abuzola, you continue arriving at the wrong conclusion.

Who says the Quran is God's words?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??.

Satan was able to fool Muhammed and cast his words into muhammed's tongue. Muhammed was not able to discern when satan was casting his words into his mouth because he was never a prophet.

So your Quran are bunch of satanic verses. [/Quote]You think the mere saying the above by you and your type is enough to make us take a step back from Islam? That can't happen. You made accusation, and to be taken as a serious critic, you need to provide evidence from the Quran against the Quran, the same way that we provide evidences from the Bible against the Bible. The burden of proof is on the accuser. When muslims say the christians are polytheists, we provide evidences from the Bible including your unexplainable Trinity Theory and we can point to the statures which the cross on your neck, with or without a hung man on it and the paintings even the stained glass of the windows in your churches. Please do the same against Quran, Islam and Muslims as speak about satan affecting it.

For me, there is no evidence that will ever come from you because is cheaper than cheap. There is no religious group that curses and says words of humiliation, rejection on satan than muslims. Muhammad [AS] started his prophethood in islam and from the very first 5 verses that click on this prophetic office every recitation of the Quran begins with curse on satan and asking for the Mercy and Blessing of God. With this in mind, please tell us if it will be possible to curse satan first, immediately asking Mercy and Blessing from Allah that satan can then cause a word of his over The Words of God? Are you joking with me, man? i am sure you are.




[Quote]That is why muslims are so wicked, vicious, violen[/b]t. They [b]act with utter stupidity and without common sense. If Islamic cult system is eradicated, there will be peace on earth because 99% of wars are caused by Muhammedan Islam.[/Quote]The qualities you described in the first 2 bold are traits of humans. no community of people, muslim or others can say there is no one among then in spite of their religiosity that is free from all of them. If you ask a palestinian this very question, he/she will say its the jews who are wicked, vicious, violent, acting with utter stupidity and without common sense.


This brings me to the third bold. How can you say 99% of the wars ever fought in this world today, Islam of Muhammad [The Muslims is the proper name and not muhammadan which is a name you coined out for us in the same way the antioch people coined out christians for you. we reject what you coined in our case] is the aggressors? Are you saying the 2 wws, spanish inquisition, the crusades, all the wars that america fought before the 1990s, the british faulkan island war, etc, etc, etc and the nigerian civil headed by 'Jack' Gowon and Ojuku who are both christians are 1%? Please list 5% of your 99%, because i left a lot out of your 1% which others fought. I know you can't rise up to the challenge. Put up now or never dare to make such a baseless accusation, again.

Sweetnecta:


The qualities you described in the first 2 bold are traits of humans. no community of people, muslim or others can say there is no one among then in spite of their religiosity that is free from all of them. If you ask a palestinian this very question, he/she will say its the jews who are wicked, vicious, violent, acting with utter stupidity and without common sense.

The reason why I am laughing is because you are exposing your advanced ignorance

Your greatest disease is IGNORANCE. Most people in the Muhammadan Muslim world as well as in the West who support the cause of the Palestinians do not actually know the facts behind the conflict. Three of the greatest tragedies of humanity are IGNORANCE of Facts, the refusal to learn from the BEST teacher of all time: HISTORY and invariably, the escape of the SIMPLEST TRUTHS from their attention.

Since you are more interested in Palestine than Nigeria. I have the following questions to ask you about Palestine and its people :

When was Palestine founded and by whom?

What language did the Palestinians speak?

What writing did they use?


What manuscripts have they left?


What was their religion?


Where are their temples?


What monuments attest to their existence?


What were its borders?


What was the name of its capital?


What were its major cities?


What is the name of the currency that they used?


What was its form of government?


What achievements have they accomplished?


What other peoples did Palestine interact with?


Where can one find any records where in the name of the country of Palestine & its people are mentioned?


What Archaeological sites can one name?


Where can one find the recorded history of these people?


Whom did they conquer or were conquered by?


Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?


Can anyone name at least Five Palestinian leaders before Arafat?


And, finally, since there is no such recognized country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?


Those who are lamenting the 'low sinking' of a 'once proud' nation, please tell us, when exactly was this proud nation brought down? Also, what was it so proud of?

The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today.

Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they transformed the Arabs of Judea, Samaria & Gaza into an ad hoc group & cynically called it 'the Palestinian people'.

How else can one explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the 'West Bank' and Gaza, respectively?

This brings me to the third bold. How can you say 99% of the wars ever fought in this world today, Islam of Muhammad [The Muslims is the proper name and not muhammadan which is a name you coined out for us in the same way the antioch people coined out christians for you. we reject what you coined in our case] is the aggressors? Are you saying the 2 wws, spanish inquisition, the crusades, all the wars that america fought before the 1990s, the british faulkan island war, etc, etc, etc and the nigerian civil headed by 'Jack' Gowon and Ojuku who are both christians are 1%? Please list 5% of your 99%, because i left a lot out of your 1% which others fought. I know you can't rise up to the challenge. Put up now or never dare to make such a baseless accusation, again.

The truth is bitter but it is only the truth that will set you free. Muhammadan Islam was created by the shedding of a sea of Arab blood; was propagated through the shedding of an ocean of the blood of other peoples. It continues to spread its VILE HATEMONGERING & WARMONGERING MESSAGE even today, by the shedding of more INNOCENT blood.
9: 5 But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.

*** This is the first verse in the Quran inciting and divinely sanctioning the followers of Muhammad to start a total war against ALL non believers in Allah AND in Muhammad as the messenger of Allah. A war against the whole of the rest of humanity (Ibn Ishaq p:204)***

^^^^^^^^^^ I will answer your many questions by providing 'help' to you to make your own research. you could have simply asked in your search engine if the remnant of the philistine of the past is today's palestinians. maybe you thought the biblical God killed them without any of them remaining?


Friday, December 31, 2010
Palestinians VS. Philistines speedymedia..com/2010/12/palestinians-vs-philistines.html - Cached -
The Philistines:

It is from the term "Philistines" that the name "Palestinians" has been taken. Actually, the ancient Philistines and modern Palestinians have something in common: both are invaders from other lands! That is precisely the meaning of their name, that is not an ethnic denomination but an adjective applied to them: Peleshet, from the verb "pelesh", "dividers", "penetrators" or "invaders". The Philistines were a confederation of non-Semitic peoples coming from Crete, the Aegean Islands and Asia Minor, also known as "Sea Peoples". The main tribes were Tzekelesh, Shardana, Akhaiusha, Danauna, Tzakara, Masa or Meshwesh, Lukki, Dardana, Tursha, Keshesh or Karkisha, Labu and Irven.

The original homeland of the group that ruled the Philistine federation, namely the "Pelesati", was the island of Crete. When the Minoic civilization collapsed, also the Minoic culture disappeared from Crete, as invaders from Greece took control of the island. . . .




Origin of name en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine - Cached - Similar - Block all en.wikipedia.org results

Further information: Definitions of Palestine and Palestinian and Timeline of the name Palestine

The name "Palestine" is the cognate of an ancient word meaning "Philistines" or "Land of the Philistines".[7][8]

The earliest known mention is thought to be in Ancient Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu which record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset) among the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign.[9] The Hebrew name Peleshet (פלשת Pəléshseth)- usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote the southern coastal region that was inhabited by the Philistines to the west of the ancient Kingdom of Judah.[10]. . . . .


During the lifetime of the messenger, the territory that is known as palestine today by almost all people and part of it is known as israel by just as many people was mentioned in the Quran by a piece of land in a town/city of jerusalem. that piece of land then was a ruin and today there is a mosque with the exact name this place was mentioned many years before. the mosque is called AQSA. you must have heard of it before, or you should research it out. just like your misunderstanding of verse 5 of chapter 9 of the Quran, i am sure you will pick the misunderstood writing on Aqsa,just as well.

was nigeria, a known country in africa today in existence 500 years ago? please apply yourself and go back to your questions and relate them to nigeria. well. if you wish choose a tribe and apply the same questionnaire to it, but a time merely 1000 years after the great flood of noah. which came first; ethiopia or nigeria, yet is the younger of the two not to be recognized?


verse 5 of chapter 9 is part of a collection of verses telling a people what to do at a particular time then, for a particular reason. if the same reason is to occur in the future and at the time, it will be applicable, unlike your 'give the second cheek' which you have turned to 'pre emptive strike'. at least bush turn it to that. below is reading in the context which it occurs; while you read the below, pay attention to the bold.

go your old testament and new testament and see if you will see anything similar in guidance that the heart can absorb, unlike your 'buy swords' which you claim it is not for defense in the new testament, just as the ' bring them before me and slay them; Luke, 19, 27' in the same new testament which you will say is no potential for violence.

it is about a king you will say. i already know that. so there were circumstances where Jesus is considered as a potential King of Jews. See for instance Matthew 2, 2, Matthew, 21, 4-5, Mark 15, 2, John, 19, 12, John, 19, 19, Acts, 1, 6. then defend this here from your bible while you study the verses of the Quran, below. [Are there circumstances where Jesus preaches violence ? Yes. Matthew, 10, 34, Luke, 22, 36.]


9:1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.

9:2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months [/b]but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.

9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. [b]So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

9:4[b] Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended][/b]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

9:5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

9:6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

@t,truth; let me overwhelm you with the real Truth, and not the make belief you identify your person by. so, study the below and learn to speak the truth. i know it is difficult for you. but we still need to let you know that you are avoiding the truth. the truth has came to you in islam, your falsehood is bound to have no deep root.


9:7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

9:8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

9:9 They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.

9:10 They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.

9:11 But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.

9:12 And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.

9:13 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.

9:14 Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people

9:15 And remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise.

9:16 Do you think that you will be left [as you are] while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive [for His cause] and do not take other than Allah , His Messenger and the believers as intimates? And Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

9:17 It is not for the polytheists to maintain the mosques of Allah [while] witnessing against themselves with disbelief. [For] those, their deeds have become worthless, and in the Fire they will abide eternally.

9:18 The mosques of Allah are only to be maintained by those who believe in Allah and the Last Day and establish prayer and give zakah and do not fear except Allah , for it is expected that those will be of the [rightly] guided.

9:19 Have you made the providing of water for the pilgrim and the maintenance of al-Masjid al-Haram equal to [the deeds of] one who believes in Allah and the Last Day and strives in the cause of Allah ? They are not equal in the sight of Allah . And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

9:20 The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah . And it is those who are the attainers [of success].

9:21 Their Lord gives them good tidings of mercy from Him and approval and of gardens for them wherein is enduring pleasure.

9:22 [They will be] abiding therein forever. Indeed, Allah has with Him a great reward.

@t.truth; the below is for you. watch this.

http://www.thedeenshow.com/show.php?action=detail&id=872




and read the below piece, too. all i did about palestine was to simply ask if Goliath was an ancestor of today's Palestinians. Tons of material came
tumbling down. i was actually linking the old philistine to today's palestine. and my love for nigeria is personal. i do not have to discuss it with you.


Debunking Joe Farah's Jewish Fables www.rense.com/general91/debun.htm - Cached - Block all www.rense.com results
By Rev. Ted Pike
7-12-10


The Bible warns Christians to ignore "Jewish fables." (Titus 1:14) In 1948 Israel violently drove half of the Arab population from Palestine, stealing land on which they had lived and farmed for thousands of years. To distract the world from this outrage, Israel created an elaborate tapestry of fables deluding generations of evangelicals and much of the world. . . . . .

@Sweetnecta :

Your problem is IGNORANCE, IGNORANCE, IGNORANCE AND DELIBERATE DENIAL OF FACTS. Which is a trademarks of all Muhammedans today. So I don't expect any good thing to ever come from any muhammedan.

@sweetnecta :

I am not impressed with what you have copied and paste from your Islamic websites. Write things in your own words and from your own brain for God sake.

Israel have been in existence. It was not created. Again you are exposing your advanced ignorance when you talk about Nigeria. Nigeria was a combination of Niger and area. Niger was existing long long before. The only thing you will say is that you don't know.

No where in the whole of the Quran, the Ahadith or all of Arab history is the Land of Palestine or the Palestinian People are mentioned, alluded to or remarked upon.

Zionism is not colonialism but rather an ancient people's deep connection to their native, historical and covenantal land. Real colonialism was and is in reality Arab Imperialism and expansionism.

Nearly 4,000 years ago the forefathers of the Jewish People, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob lived in the land of Israel, which God had promised to them and to their descendants forever. That promise was confirmed at Mount Sinai, and was delivered upon by God through Joshua, after the death of Moses, more than 3,300 years ago when the Israelites entered the land after being liberated from Egyptian slavery and oppression.
About 3,000 years ago King David established Jerusalem as the capital city of the Promised Land. 

No where in the whole of the Biblical records is there mention of the Land of Palestine nor of the Palestinian People. Neither are they mentioned in the Arabic language any where throughout the history of the Arabs until 40 years ago.  The Jews lived in JUDEA, in the Land of Israel for 850 years until their subjugation and the enslavement and the deportation of many of them by the invading Babylonians in 586 BC. They returned in large numbers 70 years afterwards after their liberation by the Persians, and remained continuously in Judea for the next 700 years until the eviction of many of them by the Roman Empire in 135AD.
The Jews lived in JUDEA, in the Land of Israel for 850 years until their subjugation and the enslavement and the deportation of many of them by the invading Babylonians in 586 BC. They returned in large numbers 70 years afterwards after their liberation by the Persians, and remained continuously in Judea for the next 700 years until the eviction of many of them by the Roman Empire in 135AD.

Despite unremitting anti-Semitism and persecution, some Jewish communities managed against great odds to remain in the Promised Land during the long interval between the Roman dispersion and the events leading to the re-establishment of the Jewish State in 1948.


The dispute has never been about Palestinian statehood but really about the destruction of the Jews and the only Jewish State on earth?

@sweetnecta :

I 'm laughing at your supreme ignorance 

Have you read Titus chapter 1:4 ? Do you know what it says ?? Please stop these copy and paste from Muhammedan websites  and read facts for yourself.

All the problems we have in the world today are caused by Muhammedans. Allah that you are mentioning, is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Your allah is a black stone embedded in the corner of Kabbah. I rest my case.

t.truth:

@sweetnecta :

I 'm laughing at your supreme ignorance 

Have you read Titus chapter 1:4 ? Do you know what it says ?? Please stop these copy and paste from Muhammedan websites  and read facts for yourself.

All the problems we have in the world today are caused by Muhammedans. Allah that you are mentioning, is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Your allah is a black stone embedded in the corner of Kabbah. I rest my case.

She is the most uninformed  muslim I have ever seen and the irony of the whole thing is that she thinks Christians partake in the "we against them" mentality seen among many muslims. In the Christian world, Islamic religion is a non issue because our redeemer liveth but theirs is buried deep near the red sea, about 200 miles away from Osama's marine  sepulcher.

@Aloy/Emeka; [Quote]« #42 on: Today at 12:04:38 AM »

Quote from: t.truth on Yesterday at 10:28:04 PM
@sweetnecta :

I 'm laughing at your supreme ignorance Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Have you read Titus chapter 1:4 Huh? Do you know what it says Huh?? Please stop these copy and paste from Muhammedan websites Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin and read facts for yourself.

All the problems we have in the world today are caused by Muhammedans. Allah that you are mentioning, is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Your allah is a black stone embedded in the corner of Kabbah. I rest my case.

She is the most uninformed muslim I have ever seen and the irony of the whole thing is that she thinks Christians partake in the "we against them" mentality seen among many muslims. In the Christian world, Islamic religion is a non issue because our redeemer liveth but theirs is buried deep near the red sea, about 200 miles away from Osama's marine sepulcher.[/Quote]the bold shows how wrong you are in your thoughts, not only of me but of just Jesus son of Mary from the bible. if dead and not staying dead is your criterion for for being a 'redeemer', then Melchizedek who had no beginning and no end and no family and no burial place since he has/had no ending, and Elijah who was raised up alive and not dead at anytime to heaven in a chariot of fire should have more rights to be your foremost redeemers before you choose Jesus. i dont think you guys think deeply enough.

i think you live under the rock is probably the reason that you do not know that Christians for the most part have developed academic disciplines to concern themselves with Islam and the current pope did not exclude himself from taking potshots at Islam. These people are called orientalists. you disappoint me by your deliberate ignorance. The burial of Muhammad [as] like the burial of Moses is one more of the many to indicate that Muhammad and Moses are alike, the reason we point to you that when Yahweh said to Moses that there is going to be a prophet raised similarly to him from the people of his brethren, we said the prophet was Muhammad, while you blindly argued to deny him, just as you took another comforter that was promised by your 'redeemer' that he will hear from God and speaks only what he hears to mean a ghost talking! Dont you have any shame, aloy? When you are denying what your redeemer said, is he much of a redeemer in your mind, really? no wonder he will deny people like you who have performed great miracles in his name. If you havent performed miracles in his name, know that he has already denied you because he will deny people more worthy than you. this is what he said and you can take it to the bank unless you believe it is worthless coming from him, since you so much rely of others like paul.

@t.truth; « #40 on: Yesterday at 10:16:19 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta :

Your problem is IGNORANCE, IGNORANCE, IGNORANCE AND DELIBERATE DENIAL OF FACTS. Which is a trademarks of all Muhammedans today. So I don't expect any good thing to ever come from any muhammedan.[/Quote]call me muhammadan as much as you want. it does not make me less than a muslim, the proper name for those who accept Muhammad [as] as the last of God's Messengers [as]. your calling me muhammadan is smilar to aloy/emeka calling me a she, and will be similar to if i say you are a homosexual. each of them is wrong, unless you are a homosexual, i will be correct. you see how the finger of ignorance and deliberate distortion of facts is pointing directly at you?




[Quote]@sweetnecta :

I am not impressed with what you have copied and paste from your Islamic websites. Write things in your own words and from your own brain for God sake.[/Quote]Allah did not create me before Ibrahim [as] and Lut [as] left their idolatry tribe people and established Tawhid. Even though I am sure that I am alive before you, both of us have to read the stories and history of Ibrahim and his progeny in books; mine from Quran,Bible and World History Books. To me Quran is absolute revelation and Word of God without word of anyone. If you were read the history and construct the response in your own words, you are not much different from me who read a good piece about the same subject matter and felt that it really doesnt need any summation and present it as is for your benefit. if you are too lazy to read it,just say so instead of this empty grandstanding.




[Quote]Israel have been in existence. It was not created. Again you are exposing your advanced ignorance when you talk about Nigeria. Nigeria was a combination of Niger and area. Niger was existing long long before. The only thing you will say is that you don't know.[/Quote]you must have been following the weak logic of benjamin nathayahu who said to a reporter that there was many thousands of years ago a benjamin whom he was named after who walked on the street of Jerusalem. yes there was. but long before that, was a jacob who was named israel, meaning 'warrior of God' [i want you to pay attention because by Allah you need education]. and before that was isaac. and before that was the big brother of Isaac by 13 years whose name was Ismail, the first son of the Personal Friend of Allah. It is this man, Ibrahim [AS] that you people, Jews and Christians accused of fornication if not outright adultery since you claim that his wife Sarah was in cohort in this evil act against a princess who you called a servant or slave without being a captive of war.

I am a yoruba man and there is no history of a king anywhere in yoruba land or any culture of the world that a princess can be given out as a maid or slave or servant by her father the king to another king or any nobility. it just does not happen. based on the lies of your book and your inability to reason, should your lies pass as any truth in the mind of normal people? never.

All over the world, a child is known by his/her father's name or lineage, unless he/she is an illegitimate. from all indications, Ismail was not an illegitimate since he is reported to participate in his father's burial with his baby brother isaac, who for 13 years he walked the land along with his father before the little isaac was born! who has more right than Ismail the same son who got circumcised along with Father Ibrahim when the commandment came down? If he was an illegitimate and had no right would he have been treated with such honor? meanwhile you swallow the Jewish tale, the same people who said they killed your god and you are happy about it? heck. what do i expect from you.




[Quote]No where in the whole of the Quran, the Ahadith or all of Arab history is the Land of Palestine or the Palestinian People are mentioned, alluded to or remarked upon.[/Quote]before Ibrahim left his people, there was a land and people called cannan and cannanites. the land had a name before ibrahim [as] arrived in it, becoming part of her community. that was before he had children. the land didn't become israel until the killing that accompany the exodus under moses and joshua where your bible said everything that was living; man woman children and adult, old and young, animals and crops and trees were destroyed from after crossing the sea until they touched the land for the first time making it 40 years of killing spree. is this a thing of pride in your mind especially the senseless killing of even animals and non combatants? this people were so vile that a 40 day journey God had to punish them so that everyday is made a burden of 1 year. Palestinian people did not become muslims until Jerusalem was opened under the authority of Kalifah Umar ibn Khattab. by the way Jeddah, Taif both are cities in Saudi Arabia and fully islamic cities, neither of them is mentioned in Quran or Hadith. Hadith being the saying of the Messenger [as]. However, the saying of Umar bin Khattab [ra]. you will read that the key of jerusalem was given to him when he came there as the leader of the victorious islamic army. he was offered to make his prayer in the holy trinity church which he declined because he did not want to lay down a presidence that may make the become a mosque. you can't erase a people and their presence just because there is no written history about them, consider who is their enemy; a people who blasphemed even the Friend of God as fornicator, David as a murderer, young child Ismail as a wild ass.

www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_first_arabs.php - Cached - Similar -

. . . After the Roman conquest of Judea, the Nabataeans and others, “Palastina” became a province of the pagan Roman Empire and then of the Christian Byzantine Empire, and very briefly of the Zoroastrian Persian Empire. In 638 AD, an Arab-Muslim Caliph took Palastina away from the Byzantine Empire and made it part of an Arab-Muslim Empire. The Arabs, who had no name of their own for this region, adopted the Greco-Roman name Palastina, that they pronounced “Falastin”. . . .




[Quote]Zionism is not colonialism but rather an ancient people's deep connection to their native, historical and covenantal land. Real colonialism was and is in reality Arab Imperialism and expansionism.[/Quote]you must be living in a deepest of jungles. you have been hood winkled. the one who carried the covenant was the one with the original covenant; Abraham. this covered all his descendants. if his descendants who are good doers don't have right to inherit, can an evil man like sharon have any right? how o you prioritize? i don't get your thinking. you are a strange man upsetting all norms. Zionism is not colonialism, yet many jewish groups see them as such. in the US, they have all the christians in a uniform stray jacket that their lobbyist group can over throw the presidency. they are imperial, in addition. in the days of the south african apartheid jews were made honorary whites just by their sheer power over everything christian, since they are capable of killing your god, which they are eager to do again as soon as he lands in their territory.

let me ask you; have you seen a family that the great grandfather deprived his own son his properties but gives them to the grandson to pass to the great grandchildren from a young brother, of the first son before? ismail [as] was not even a prodigal son. hello. wake up from your playing an unconscious man.




[Quote]Nearly 4,000 years ago the forefathers of the Jewish People, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob lived in the land of Israel, which God had promised to them and to their descendants forever. That promise was confirmed at Mount Sinai, and was delivered upon by God through Joshua, after the death of Moses, more than 3,300 years ago when the Israelites entered the land after being liberated from Egyptian slavery and oppression.
About 3,000 years ago King David established Jerusalem as the capital city of the Promised Land. [/Quote]you are a disappointment. the forefather of the jews, before it was the father of the children of Ismail [as], his first son, whom your bible made a failed prophesy upon. Alas. the noble man never hurt a fly. it was the branch that your bible praised that had all kinds of misfortunes. from conspiracy between sarah and jacob against esau on the blind man isaac, to the sale of joseph and sadness that overwhelmed jacob so much so that he wept until be became blind, to the many centuries of slavery that took place in egypt,and stabbing of a different ethnic man by moses, to the killing fields of 40 years under moses and joshua, including worship golden calf, and the murder of the husband of the wife david snatched, to the 700 wives and 300 concubines of idol worshiping solomon, to the torn nations because of the evil of the jews and their many captivities, to the beheading of innocent john son of zacharias and oh the killing of your man god by hanging saying that his soul is cursed for you [read what paul said and don't blame], and the holocausts [though, i could touch up on other issues before it]. until this time, israel is still the society that has never been free from the hands of her neighbors. i guess your god gave a wrong prediction after all.




[Quote]No where in the whole of the Biblical records is there mention of the Land of Palestine nor of the Palestinian People. Neither are they mentioned in the Arabic language any where throughout the history of the[b] Arabs until 40 years ago.[/b] The Jews lived in JUDEA, in the Land of Israel for 850 years until their subjugation and the enslavement and the deportation of many of them by the invading Babylonians in 586 BC. They returned in large numbers 70 years afterwards after their liberation by the Persians, and remained continuously in Judea for the next 700 years until the eviction of many of them by the Roman Empire in 135AD.[/Quote]i wonder if you were alive 40 years ago? munich 72 was just a year after 71. sometimes in the past, i heard people say it is the hausas and or the fulanis that called the yorubas the name we yorubas are identified by. i wonder how real that is, since the yorubas say 'yorubas do not imitate, but rather they are the people to be imitated'. i say this that the story or history that is true is one and may never be told by those who wish such a story be unknown. if the bloodline of older brother is in the body of those called arab palestinians today, toy bet they were on that land earlier than the blood of isaac descendants can ever be. after the land was not without a people before Abraham arrive there. and it was not without a people when they children of israel returned from many centuries, the reason they waged wars and killed whatever was breathing.




[Quote]The Jews lived in JUDEA, in the Land of Israel for 850 years until their subjugation and the enslavement and the deportation of many of them by the invading Babylonians in 586 BC. They returned in large numbers 70 years afterwards after their liberation by the Persians, and remained continuously in Judea for the next 700 years until the eviction of many of them by the Roman Empire in 135AD.[/Quote]the greater 12 nations of israel was broken to two; the first nation israel was comprising of benjamin and joseph bloodlines,while judea comprised of the bloodlines of the other 10 [or it is the othe way around for judea and the newer and smaller israel].




[Quote]Despite unremitting anti-Semitism and persecution, some Jewish communities managed against great odds to remain in the Promised Land during the long interval between the Roman dispersion and the events leading to the re-establishment of the Jewish State in 1948.

The dispute has never been about Palestinian statehood but really about the destruction of the Jews and the only Jewish State on earth?[/Quote]semites are more than the children of isaac. i am a semite by blood and religion, and am neither a jew by blood or jewish by religion. to claim semitic exclusivity for the jews is utter ignorance.




[Quote]t.truth (m)
« #41 on: Yesterday at 10:28:04 PM »

@sweetnecta :

I 'm laughing at your supreme ignorance Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Have you read Titus chapter 1:4 Huh? Do you know what it says Huh?? Please stop these copy and paste from Muhammedan websites Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin and read facts for yourself.[/quote]To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.if this is your pride and joy, know that your trinity is dead by it. further 'my true son' is better than my 'begotten son', from how i read it. each time, the bible exposes itself. now it is titus and before it is jesus. i wonder when the slippery slope will level off. a god with a son or a partner or mother and or father is not a Uniquely One and Only God.




[Quote]All the problems we have in the world today are caused by Muhammedans. Allah that you are mentioning, is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Your allah is a black stone embedded in the corner of Kabbah. I rest my case.[/Quote]a person have to be afflicted with dementia to limit the Lorship of the Truly Unique One God and no other to God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, ignoring that he was God before man was created by Him. He therefore is the God of Human Adam [as] and all prophets and non prophet humans, till the last human that will live on earth. you see why i need to stop responding to you, because your idea about God is completely opposite that of mine.

@the christian people; from yahoo news.

Preacher says world will actually end in October
AP

Harold Camping AP – Harold Camping speaks during a taping of his show 'Open Forum' in Oakland, Calif., Monday, May 23, 2011. …

Harold Camping predicts the Rapture Slideshow:Harold Camping predicts the Rapture

By GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press – Tue May 24, 3:56 am ET

[b]OAKLAND, Cali[/b]f. – A California preacher who foretold of the world's end only to see the appointed day pass with no extraordinarily cataclysmic event has revised his apocalyptic prophecy, saying he was off by five months and the Earth actually will be obliterated on Oct. 21. . . .

@sweetnecta:

I have a feeling you are Olabowale.

call me muhammadan as much as you want. it does not make me less than a muslim, the proper name for those who accept Muhammad [as] as the last of God's Messengers [as]. your calling me muhammadan is smilar to aloy/emeka calling me a she, and will be similar to if i say you are a homosexual. each of them is wrong, unless you are a homosexual, i will be correct. you see how the finger of ignorance and deliberate distortion of facts is pointing directly at you

You are so ridiculous. You are assuming that someone you don't know is an homosexual. Isn't it funny?. In case of aloy/emeka, he is only assuming you are a lady since there is no indication that you are a male from your profile.

Allah did not create me before Ibrahim [as] and Lut [as] left their idolatry tribe people and established Tawhid. Even though I am sure that I am alive before you, both of us have to read the stories and history of Ibrahim and his progeny in books; mine from Quran,Bible and World History Books. To me Quran is absolute revelation and Word of God without word of anyone. If you were read the history and construct the response in your own words, you are not much different from me who read a good piece about the same subject matter and felt that it really doesnt need any summation and present it as is for your benefit. if you are too lazy to read it,just say so instead of this empty grandstanding.

I want to ask you a simple question. The question is : Is Abraham an Arab or an Hebrew ?
Olabowale let me give you the following facts that you don't know because when you know the truth, the truth will set you free.

1 Ishmael was born in Canaan near Beersheba to a Hebrew father and an Egyptian mother.


2 God repeatedly asserts that ONLY Isaac is deemed the Divinely elect son and NOT Ishmael.


3 ONLY the seed of Isaac was to inherit the Blessing of the Promised Land.

4 Ishmael was a teenager of over 14 years of age when he and his mother were sent away from Abraham's tribe and NOT the BABY that the Quran asserts he was.


5 Ishmael and his mother Hagar, resided there after in the 'wilderness of Paran', in southern Canaan, and NEVER in the Arabian Peninsula near the Ka'ba or Mecca.


6 Neither the Ka'ba nor Mecca or Allah are ever mentioned in the Bible. It stands to reason that, if the god of the pagan Arabs, Allah, was the same as the God of Israel, He would have at the very least mentioned their name somewhere in His Torah.


7 Abraham NEVER visited the Ka'ba nor Mecca in the Biblical narrative.


8 Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac had no knowledge of a god called Allah.


9 Abraham, Hagar and the 'baby' Ishmael NEVER went to the Ka'ba or to Mecca according to the ORIGINAL and ONLY Biblical story.


10 Since the Torah, according to the Quran itself, was revealed to Moses by Allah, and is considered DIVINE, it beggars logic and intellect to believe that Allah - if he were the God of Israel - would have revealed TWO CONTRADICTORY VERSIONS OF THE SAME EVENTS.


11 If Ishmael were the elect of Allah instead of Isaac, why were ALL the prophets of the Bible from the seed of Isaac and none from his?


In conclusion, as usual, the Quranic stories are unfounded, untrue, inauthentic and total lies and no follower of Muhammad can, based on ALL the knowledge that is availabe to every one, disprove our accusations and statements .

@sweetnecta :

For us to engage in this type of discussion, please get facts and stop your deliberate denial of facts and veracity. Hagar was NEVER A PRINCESS but Hagar was the mother of Ishmael and the servant of Sarah. Her name - as the mother of the most illustrious forefather of the Arabs - is conspicuously and surprisingly absent from the Quran.


In fact, it appears only once in the interpretations section of 2:158. According to alleged Arab 'traditions', mother and son - in this case as a baby and accompanied in their exile by Abraham - had their thirst quenched at the well of Zamzam, near Mecca, almost 1000 desert miles away from Beer Sheba.


According to the Torah - which is after all the ORIGINAL and ONLY source of the story - they found water near Beersheba and not in the desolation of Arabia near Mecca.


According to alleged Arab traditions - and of course totally unfounded and contrary to the historical .
Muhammed was never a prophet in the first place. He did not possess a single characteristics of a prophet. He was an arab militant, who killed, plundered, looted and enslaved people and booty.

a prophet by definition is one who can predict future events. Moses was able to do that in his confrontaton with Pharaoh while Muhammad NEVER predicted anything.


According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq
I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)


'Aisha further said,


"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:


"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)
She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."


Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the
Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"


182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"


*** Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD.


Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true.


Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true

@sweetnecta:

The Quran is not from God. The Quran is Muhammed's equal opportunity hate mongering book.

You are the greatest disappointment and the father of all who live in Jungles because you are not making any sense. Your own god is a black stone embedded in the corner of Kabah. You better wake up because you are in a deep slumber in this muhammedan cult.


It is a common knowledge that nothing good can ever come from Muhammedan Islam. All we get is violence and denial of facts and a deliberate attempt by people like you to deliberately misconstrued the truth. Your prophet is a despoiler, a paedophile, a mass murderer. In fact Muhammad's Quran, his Sunna, Sharia and his Fundamentalist believers are Hatemongering, Warmongering, Misogynist, Racist, Vile and hence UNGODLY entities.

Your Quran is full of errors. Errors Found Within the Quran:


A) Contradictions With the Bible Which Point to Errors-


Abraham & Ishmael
Ishmael OR Isaac sacrifice?
Moses & Aaron
Yahya
Trinity
Jesus was NOT Crucified ?
Uzair son of God?
Talut OR Joshuah?




B) Internal Contradictions Which Point to Errors-


Mariam/Mary & Imran
Pharaoh & Haman




C) Errors Which Contradict Secular, historical and Scientific Data


Samaritan
Sun sets in a PUDDLE
Issa
Earth is FLAT
Mountains hold Earth in place
Alexander the Great was a Muslim
Several VERSIONS of Creation
Pharaoh's Cross
Other Scientific problems




D) Absurdities-


Mount Sinai lifted OVER the Israelites
Man's Greatness
Seven Earths
Jinns & Shooting Stars
Solomon's power over nature
Youth and dog sleep 309 years
People become apes
Sodom & Gomorrah turned upside-down
Jacob's smell & sight
Night/Day/Sun/Moon are subject to man


E) Grammatical Errors-




F) The EDITED and TAMPERED with Sources of the Quran-




G) MODIFIED Stories which Correspond with the Biblical Accounts-


Cain and Abel
Abraham
Mt Sinai
Solomon and Sheba
Mary, Imran and Zachariah




H) Stories Which DO NOT Correspond with the Biblical Account-


Heaven and Hell
Satan's Refusal to Worship Adam
None death of Jesus
Harut and Marut
The Cave of 7 Sleepers
The Sirat
Jesus's Birth

I can go on and on and on. So stop defending what you know is false. I rest my case.

^^^^^
You points on the alleged contradictions only shows how porous your arguments actually are, you could not even given us references to what you are exactly talking about, but again this vessel of contradictions failed to even make sound rational arguments.

Sweetnecta, In please take it easy oh! this guy is about to loose it totally, the truth seems to hurt more than molten lead! one should laugh at an individual that believes another human who shouted "My lord My Lord why have thou forsaken me", if this is the MAN you expect to save you then elements of common sense seems misplaced in your thinking.

vedaxcool:

^^^^^
You points on the alleged contradictions only shows how porous your arguments actually are, you could not even given us references to what you are exactly talking about, but again this vessel of contradictions failed to even make sound rational arguments.

Sweetnecta, In please take it easy oh! this guy is about to loose it totally, the truth seems to hurt more than molten lead! one should laugh at an individual that believes another human who shouted "My lord My Lord why have thou forsaken me", if this is the MAN you expect to save you then elements of common sense seems misplaced in your thinking.

you and your muhammedan brother sweetnecta are the most porous people on earth. I have given references before. All you do is deny facts and try to miscontrued the truth.

t.truth:

you and your muhammedan brother sweetnecta are the most porous people on earth. I have given references before. All you do is deny facts and try to miscontrued the truth.

Aya! your inability to reply based on the principle of rationality and adherence to common sense does not baffle me at all, here is what you wrote, i believe only people at Yaba ward 9 would claim that you gave reference in this reply you indicated, whcih fact did I deny? what i said, sir, if you read with your eyes open and brain adequately interpreting, was that you did not give any reference, yet in your crusader like haste that mimics the behaviour of an armed robber running from a crime scene, you immediately conclude that i had deny facts and "miscontrued" -Using ur spelling- the truth. Rather than hastenly blabb and make a joke of yourself, take time to think and ponder, ALLAH in the Qur'an kept urging " do they not [b]ponder [/b]at the Qur'an? I do advise you to think.

t.truth:

Your Quran is full of errors. Errors Found Within the Quran:


A) Contradictions With the Bible Which Point to Errors-


Abraham & Ishmael
Ishmael OR Isaac sacrifice?
Moses & Aaron
Yahya
Trinity
Jesus was NOT Crucified ?
Uzair son of God?
Talut OR Joshuah?




B) Internal Contradictions Which Point to Errors-


Mariam/Mary & Imran
Pharaoh & Haman




C) Errors Which Contradict Secular, historical and Scientific Data


Samaritan
Sun sets in a PUDDLE
Issa
Earth is FLAT
Mountains hold Earth in place
Alexander the Great was a Muslim
Several VERSIONS of Creation
Pharaoh's Cross
Other Scientific problems




D) Absurdities-


Mount Sinai lifted OVER the Israelites
Man's Greatness
Seven Earths
Jinns & Shooting Stars
Solomon's power over nature
Youth and dog sleep 309 years
People become apes
Sodom & Gomorrah turned upside-down
Jacob's smell & sight
Night/Day/Sun/Moon are subject to man


E) Grammatical Errors-




F) The EDITED and TAMPERED with Sources of the Quran-




G) MODIFIED Stories which Correspond with the Biblical Accounts-


Cain and Abel
Abraham
Mt Sinai
Solomon and Sheba
Mary, Imran and Zachariah




H) Stories Which DO NOT Correspond with the Biblical Account-


Heaven and Hell
Satan's Refusal to Worship Adam
None death of Jesus
Harut and Marut
The Cave of 7 Sleepers
The Sirat
Jesus's Birth

where are the references what verse or chapter ? or you do not know what reference means? please try and be objective rather than behaving like a stiff necked individual that is only willing to hear himself speak.

@vedaxcool or whatever you call yourself :

It is you and all Muhammedans are mad people. You exist your madness everything for all to see. I know how to spell the truth. I deliberately wrote t.truth.

Anyway here are the quotes from your hate book called Quran :
Quran exhibits an allusive, chronologically disorganised, historically incorrect, grammatically and lexically difficult book.

Muhammadans hold that their faith came directly from Allah. The Quran and all their tenets were 'revealed' by Gabriel from Allah to Muhammad. Much of their faith is also built upon Ahadith (Traditions) handed down by his followers.


The Shi'a Muhammadans differ from the Sunnis as to much that is told us by Traditions; therefore, our arguments have to be based mainly on the Quran which is accepted as divine by every Muhammadan of whichever sect, and on such traditions as is comfortable thereto. As for the Quran, it is held to be of eternal origin, recorded in heaven, and lying as it does there upon the "Preserved Table"


85. 21" This is a glorious Quran


22 (inscribed) in a Tablet preserved [Lawhun Mahfooth] "


*** The Quranic tablets are in similitude to those that Moses brought down at Mount Sinai as the Tablets of the Law.


Even the concept of a written Tablet - like most of the other important ideas and precepts of the Quran - is plagiarised from the traditions of the
Jews ***


Thus Allah alone is held to be the "Source" of Muhammadan Islam.


Since this is the case, then all efforts to find a HUMAN origin for any part of it would be in vain.


Now, if we can trace the teaching of any part of it, to an earthly source, or to human concepts and ideas existing PRIOR to Muhammad's age, then the alleged divine origin of Muhammadan Islam collapses at once to the ground.


It therefore behooves every true and enlightened Believer, with the utmost diligence, to test whether this claim be true or not. If their opponents can bring to light no human sources, they may contend that by admission Muhammadan Islam is indeed divine; but if otherwise, they cannot but perceive what a fatal conclusion must be drawn.


Let us then test the assertions of those who hold to the existence of human sources, and see whether any portion of the doctrines and tenets of 'Islam' can be traced to other Faiths, Beliefs and Traditions preceding Muhammad's age, or existing at the time.


The Quran asserts that it was the angel Gabriel who recited its contents to Muhammad (Surah 2:97)


2: 97 Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will a confirmation of what went before and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe.


Hence Muhammad received the Quran SECOND HAND and not directly from Allah.


On the other hand, Moses received the Torah directly ' FACE to FACE' from God. He was after all, not only Rasul'ul Allah and his Prophet but also 'Kalim'ul Allah' - he who talked directly to Allah - while Muhammad was only 'Rasul'ul Allah' - the messenger of Allah.


Moreover, Gabriel is one of the Hebrew angels and is the same angel who predicted the virginal and divine birth of Jesus/Messiah as mentioned in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke.


If Jesus was the predicted REDEEMER of humanity, then why would the same Gabriel turn to another person - Muhammad - to fulfil God's will?


Does this mean that Jesus had failed in his mission and a new replacement was necessary?


Why would the same angel Gabriel predict and serve TWO different and contradictory messengers of God, if Allah is the God of Israel and Jesus?


Since Gabriel was an angel in the Jewish tradition to start with, why would he recite Surahs in the Quran - not in Hebrew but in Arabic - that are not true reflections of those of the Torah or the New Testament but are, in an enormous number of cases, totally incompatible variations of them?


Why would the God of Israel - according to the Quranic version of events - not keep His promises to His People? Is it possible or acceptable to imply that the Almighty had been misleading them?


Why did it take Muhammad twenty-three years - the whole period of his unfinished prophetic mission - to 'reveal' the Quran while it took God forty days and nights to teach the whole of the Torah to Moses?


The Quran does not exhibit any sustained narrative; it contains nothing like the details of the biographies and stories which fill the Bible. The heroes of the Bible are reduced to mere names or footnotes in the scheme of the Quran; creatures without depth, breadth or even a 'soul' but fully laden with acrymonious and blood curdling exhortations. The angel Gabriel must have been 'high' on some intoxicant to deliver such mendacities.


Almost all of the Biblical narratives are completely changed without any reason, explanation or logic. If Gabriel were innocent of such perversions, then it must have been Muhammad or the redactors of the Quran who deliberately attended to its falsifications and tampering.


Is the Quran a divine revelation?


From the logical, historical and theological points of view the answer can only be an EMPHATIC NO.


While the Hebrew Bible records the historical and theological relationship between the People of Israel and their God in an orderly, chronologically sequential and relatively accurate narrative, that of the Quran records the PERSONAL thoughts, needs, hope, fears, lusts, hatred, anger and personally intimate matters of Muhammad ONLY.


Hence, the only remaining practical and acceptable conclusion that can explain away the vital differences between the original Biblical version of events and the current Quranic ones are:


A) That the stories of the Quran are not historical for the simple reason that they are in the form of allegories and parables to convey 'moral' or 'spiritual' truths to a pagan people who are without a recorded anchor in history. They are repeated in numerous verses and in different forms for their religious and spiritual contents.


Almost all the human characters in the Quran are two dimensional without a background and without a history who appear on centre stage from no where and go to no where. It is not surprising that Muhammad found very few converts to his 'heroes' while other 'story tellers' succeeded more than him.


B) If the above explanation is unacceptable, then the only other conclusion is that the Quran had been deliberately edited, perverted and/or corrupted by the Muhammadan theologians after his death to suit their sectarian and or political agendas.


We do not have the original versions of the Quran because they had been destroyed by its redactors a few years after Muhammad's death to cover up their tampering and not to confuse his followers by having contradictory versions.


The Quran is a simple scripture that offers no unattainable ideals. It has no mystical sacraments, no priestly hierarchy and no 'apostolic' succession. Just like in the Torah concerning Moses, Muhammad is only an ordinary human being who was divinely inspired. The similarities between the Quran and the Torah (Hebrew Bible) - which it slavishly tries to emulate - are unmistakable, numerous and the reasons are obvious and very clear.


Muhammadans, none the less, follow the Sunna of Muhammad by claiming that he is greater than Moses and gentler than Jesus and that his message is the only true one since those of the Jews and Christians have been falsified and or corrupted.


They, understandably, none the less, cannot explain how it is possible that Allah 'talked to Moses directly' but did not do so to the allegedly greatest of all the prophets, Muhammad.


Instead, he received his 'revelations' indirectly and second hand through the Hebrew angel, Gabriel. They cannot refute or explain away the fact that the 'traditions' provide for the individual Quranic verses an enormous variety of interpretations and historical situations.


Almost all of the historical narratives in the Quran are echoes, derivatives or altered versions of those found in the Torah and Hebrew Scriptures. Not a single shred of evidence to bolster their spurious claims can be found to substantiate all the preposterous assertions made by Arab and Muhammadan scholars that pre Muhammad Arab tradition had knowledge of the characters and stories of the Torah.


It is a fact that the Quran itself repeatedly asserts, that the pagan Arabs, including Muhammad, were totally 'unlearned' [ummiyoon] and 'illiterate' of previous revelations.


The Quran is replete with SERIOUS ERRORS pertaining to histories, names, places, grammar and events that run into the hundreds.


The Biblical stories in the Quran are shorn of their extensive original narrative and are presented in a very dry and truncated form. The Quran is a testament to Muhammad's very vivid but definitely not creative imagination in story telling.


Muhammad has a proclivity for the use of dramatic dialogue peppered with invented words and verbs to rhyme but with a minimal sense for drama or action. The successive episodes and events are similar, with ad nauseum repetitive harangues, uninspiring and very boring.


In fact, the manner in which the Quran is written presupposes that the reader/listener should have a goodly and prior knowledge of some of the Biblical events since without the detailed interpretations of the verses - based on the Ahadith - it would be impossible for any reader or listener to understand its meaning or comprehend its stories even if one were a master of the Arabic language.


The ordinary pagan Arab could not at all have been interested in Noah, Moses, Job etc. but only if the Quranic message was directed towards the People of the Book
- especially in the Madina - would that have had any relevance.


If the message of the Quran is supposed to be eternal and unalterable, then many laws, rules and precepts that could have been applicable in its time are archaic in the modern, for example:


a) The rules and regulations controlling the rights, the manner of dress and work practices of women are their disfranchisement are repugnant in today's light. The discrmination against women is serious, onerous and unacceptable both morally and legally and could not have been the product of any compassionate and egalitarian divinity.


Even the verses of the Quran which were fair towards women at the beginning of Muhammad's perceived mission, were later ABROGATED in favour of men. Women in the Quran are reduced to the level of chattel and as the harbingers of evil.


It is a fact that even today, over 50% of the Muhammadans in the world, all females, are perceived as stupid creatures and treated with degradation, contempt and discrimination.


They exist in the Muhammadan world at the beck and call of men, for their pleasure and sexual gratification, for procreation, for taking care of the children and for keeping the home.


b) If the Quran were truly superior to previous revelations, then the rules and regulations pertaining to SLAVERY should have been abolished instead of being perpetuated. They cannot be applicable to any class in the modern and humane societies of today.


c) The Quranic injunctions to mercilessly kill and destroy all UNBELIEVERS
"In the Name of Allah" - in MOST of its 114 Suras - leaves one with a very hard time finding evidence of Allah's Compassion and Mercy. In fact, the Quran is full of judgement and hate but with very little mercy or compassion.


There are many more such incompatibilities in the Quran that can only prove, that
its actual legislation was a MAN MADE guiding light in its time but that it should and must change with the evolution of human society.


Contrary to all the false assertions of Muhammadan scholars, it is a fact that the Quran by itself does not give specific guidance or details to its followers about prayers, pilgrimage, fasting, punishment, alms etc and that in the end its believers have no choice but to resort to finding them in Traditions/Ahadith (Sunna) as to what Muhammad had said and done or was allegedly reported to have said and done during his lifetime.


This vast accumulation of genuine, partly true and many totally spurious traditions were assimilated, digested and put together in a collection of books called Ahadith of which six are considered canonical:


Sahih Bukhari (d.256/870)
Sahih Muslim (d. 261/ 875)
Sunan Ibn Maja (d. 273/886)
Sunan Abu Dawood (d. 275/888)
Jami' al Tarmidi (d. 279/892)
Sunan al Nasi (d. 303/915)


The narrative of the Quran displays a preoccupation with three major topics:


Previous Prophets
Law


Final Judgement


The stories of the prophets are recounted in the Quran with invariably the same theme:


A prophet is selected by Allah


the prophet confronts his people


they reject him


they are destroyed as a punishment


by Allah's mercy, the prophet and any believers are saved


The moral being that Allah's message will endure forever and always triumphs over unbelief. This theme is repeated in the cases of Noah, Salih, Hud Abraham, Lot, Shuayb and Moses.


Most of the 'revelations' of the Quran were 'MADE to ORDER' by Muhammad since these 'revelations' invariably 'descended' AFTER an EVENT had occurred to either justify or explain it for and at the convenience of Muhammad.


The Ahadith are replete with stories that assert this conclusion.


The last Surah of the Quran - Hadith Bukhari 6:129 is the Bara'a and the last verse is 4:176 in Surah Al Nisa.


In the Hadith Tirmidi 2830 according to Umar ibn al Khattab, it was about USURY but Muhammad died without having expounded it.


The Ahadith themselves attest to the fact that there were originally SEVEN versions of the Quran before six were destroyed and only one canonised by Uthman; this shows an incredible level of contempt for the 'words of Allah'.


At the very beginning of 'Islam', the Quran was being memorised and not yet compiled into a written form especially since as long as Muhammad was alive and receiving 'revelations' - over a period of 23 years - new Suras were being added and others were being revised and or abrogared.


When Muhammad died, there existed no singular codex of the Quranic text, that is, there was not in existence any collection of 'revelations' in a Final Review form. Also, there was not a single memoriser who knew all the verses of the Quran; all these verses were scattered in the memories of tens of Huffaz, memorisers.


Without a doubt, Muhammad failed utterly in his primary mission of giving his followers a SINGLE Scripture because in reality he died without authenticating a unified codex of the Quran. The fact that he left his followers with SEVEN modes/versions of the Quran, speaks volumes about his failure.


The consequences of this failure became paramount when his followers were reciting different versions of the alleged 'words of Allah'. This failure has endured-and continues - for the last 1400 years. All attempts by his present followers to gloss over this fact are doomed to fail since the records of the Muhammadan scholars in the centuries after his death attest to otherwise.


After his death and as the memorisers (Huffath), were becoming extinct through death in battle or otherwise, Umar ibn al Khattab, recommended that it should be committed to writing. Abu Bakr entrusted the task to Zayd ibn Thabit of al Madina who used to be Muhammad's secretary.


The scattered portions of the Quran were collected from the ribs of palm leaves, tablets of white stone and from the breasts of men.
(Biography of Zayd bin Thabit; Bukhari Hadith 6:201).


All were brought together and a text was constructed. From the above quotes, it means that the pagan Arabs had not by then mastered the art of writing or the use of writing materials such as clay, papyrus, metal sheets or even skins of animals. The Arabs of the Hijaz - contrary to all the efforts of Muhammadan propaganda - were mostly illiterate and uneducated people.


In 651, Uthman bin Affan, canonised the Madina codex and ordered all others
(at least four other versions of the Quran) DESTROYED. If it were true that there were many 'memorisers' of the Quran, why then did they need to collect the Quranic verses from diverse and unrelated 'documents' such as leafstalk, bone, parchments as well as the memories of men?


What is also blatantly problematic to the Muhammadan scolars is the varaiations in the several extant Qurans of the time making it impossible to tell which version is the alleged 'word of Allah', since 'his word' should have been only ONE and not several.


In fact, there were several metropolitan codices in Arabia, Syria and Iraq with divergent readings blamed on the defective nature of Kufic script which contained no vowels, and so the consonants of verbs could be read as actives or passives, and, worse still, many of the consonants themselves could not be distinguished without diacritical dots which were afterwards added.


Moreover, a further problem which complicated the correct compilation of the Quran is the fact that there were verses which were spoken in Madina but were included in suras which began in Mecca, and vise versa.


The problem that existed and persisted during the life- time of Muhammad for his followers is the fact, that for as long as he was alive, new 'revelations' - whereby the omniscient Allah was nonetheless allegedly changing his mind - were very conveniently being added to and some subtracted from the earlier ones (Abrogated and Abrogating verses which affected 71 of the 114 Suras of the Quran).


This is why at the time of Muhammad's death there existed no singular codex of the
'sacred text'. It is also reported that some major parts of a Sura were eaten by a domestic animal.


Another Sura, that of Al Rajm, was alleged by Umar ibn al Khattab to have existed but is not included in the Quran.


The final text of the Quran was actually fixed in 933AD.
Since the Quran is supposed to be the word of Allah - who is the one who taught Moses the Torah - then the only and unmistakable conclusion for the enormous inconsistencies and differences between them must be because it was the Muhammadans who corrupted the Quran to suit their own agenda. The criminal invariably projects upon his victim his own hatreds, shortcomings and lack of morality and justice; so do the Arab and Muhammadan 'theologians'.


They have conspired over the centuries - and even at the present - to control all the information that they pass on to the 'believers' by perpetuating the myth of the perfect and divine Quran contrary to the historical, philological and theological records that prove it to be otherwise.


In fact, the greatest threat to Muhammadan 'Islam' is the acquisition of knowledge, especially of the Bible, by the masses of 'believers'.


Of 114 Suras in the Quran, only 43 were not changed . All the others had verses that were either abrogated or abrogating; this means that in the course of 23 years of Muhammad's mission, Allah changed his mind at least 71 times.


In summation, the following historical and theological facts are crystal clear and indisputable:


a) The greatest number of 'traditions' and fetishes of the 'Muslims' are nothing but a continuance, a re-packaging and 'Islamization' of pagan rites and actions that pre-existed Muhammad and his Quran.


b) Almost all the precepts and concepts of importance in the Quran have been plagiarised, plundered, pirated and/or perverted from the Hebrew Bible and Scriptures (Talmud, Midrashim etc.) ,from the New Testament and Apocrypha, from pagan Arabian religion and also from Zoroasterian religion and traditions.


Abu'l Fath Muhammad Shahrestani (479/1086-548/1153), in his valuable book on sects and religions (al Melal wa'lNihal) asserts that many of the rites and duties of 'Islam' are continuations and practices which the pagan Arabs had adopted from the Jews.


c) Even if Muhammad were illiterate (not able to read or write), does not negate his ability to compose and recite prose and or poetry. Most of the poets of Arabia were illiterate but masters of the spoken language.


The oral poetic tradition of the Arabs was their greatest legacy since they left almost nothing in the form of writing thus proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that poetry and prose in Arabia was completely independent from literacy.


d) Muhammad was surrounded by, and in intimate contact with people who professed other religions such as the Jews, Christians (North Arabian, South Arabian, Ethiopian), Sabeans, Zoroasterians and Hanifs to name a few. The Quran is full of references copied from each of the above.


e) The Quran is only a tossed salad bowl of stories, concepts and precepts plagiarised, plundered, pirated and or perverted at will from the beliefs of other peoples, to suit Muhammad's agenda of inventing a suitable Scripture for his fellow pagan Arabs to equal if not rival those of the People of the Book.


No copy of any masterpiece, no matter how well done it may be, can ever equal to, let alone surpass an original.


f) The followers of Muhammad can try their best to obfuscate, contort, pervert and twist the facts to 'prove' otherwise, but it is a Mission Impossible to accomplish.


That is why when they cannot counter the truth with facts or logic, they invariably resort to violence to silence their opponents just as was done earlier by Muhammad.


g) One of the most remarkable omissions in the Quran - as 'descended' to Muhammad - is the complete absence of any of the names of the most important women in the Bible, in the context of the Quranic stories:


Eve, the wife of Adam and the mother of mankind;
Sarah, the wife of Abraham;
Hagar, the mother of Ishmael (the alleged father of the Arabs).


This is due to the fact that Muhammad had an extremely low opinion of the female gendre as shown in the Ahadith (otherwise he had a very healthy appetite to have sex with females from the age of nine upwards).


h) The so-called Arabic Quran contains at least 118 words of paramount and vital importance that are actually totally foreign and are derived from Hebrew, Aramean, Ethiopic, Syriac, Greek, Persian and Sanskrit to name just a few.


i) Neither the Quran's eloquence nor its legal and moral precepts are miraculous since they are copies and variations from the concepts and ideas of the religions of other peoples.


In most Muhammadan countries, male children under the age of ten are required to learn by heart its 6236 verses. This prodigious feat is accomplished at the expense of their reasoning faculty which often stretches their minds to their limit by the effort to memorise it, thus reducing them to the level of a parrot since they have little left for serious thought and understanding.


Muhammadan scholars can rightly point out that the Bible itself has a lot to answer for regarding the death and destruction of other peoples in pursuit of the
Promised Land. They none the less deliberately and foolishly ignore the following facts:


1 The Biblical bloody events were sanctioned by the Almighty to befall a very limited number of peoples, in a small area of land and in a short space of time.


Neither Moses nor Jesus ordained or demanded the death and destruction of all other Unbelievers - men, women and children - everywhere on the surface of the Earth for eternity; unlike the hundreds of verses of the Quran that intruct this.


2 Although the Bible has several extremely harsh punishments to be meted out to those who break some of its precepts, the Rabbis were intelligent, judicious and merciful enough to adapt to changing circumstances and not to become fossilised and in the end extinct.


They did not follow every rule that allowed for the death sentence but made it more merciful even though they were the words of God, so as to adapt and evolve with the changing circumsatnces and requirements of different civilized societies.


This ability to change that the Jewish sages in their wisdom were able to achieve, is inconceivable and totally lacking in the minds and culture of the 'religious' followers of Muhammad. They are incapable and/ or unwilling to change a single rule in the Quran which they consider inviolate despite the fact that they follow items in the Sunna which contradict the Quran.


Unfortunately for the ordinary followers of Muhammad, - the immense majority - they do not have such intelligent theological leaders but on the contrary they have the most archaic, unbending and totally fixated demagogues instead, who believe that all of the Quran's commands are valid for all time, under any and every circumstance.


3 All the acts of murder, pillage, enslavement and wanton destruction committed by 'Christians' over the centuries, cannot be attributed to a single verse in the Gospels that can justify any of them.


The New Testament after all, is the one that demands from the followers of Jesus to "Turn the other cheek" and to "love thy enemy".


This is of course in total contrast to the numerous precepts and instructions for perpetual death and destruction to the 'unbelievers' that fill the Quran.


4 Although the Crusaders fought with the sign of the cross on their shields, not one of them could cite - nor did they - words from Jesus justifying their massacres and slaughter of civilians unlike the followers of Muhammad who can, based upon numerous verses that Muhammad's Quran ordained in the name of a totally innocent Allah.


It is imperative to point out to the readers, that the Quran is not the history of the Arabian peoples nor is it the history of Arabia, because it is actually a record of stories about an individual leader, Muhammad, his family, his relatives and his followers within the Peninsula.


On the other hand, the religious significance of the Hebrew Bible resides in the fact that it ties it to the history of a single people and the geographical actuality of a single land.


1: 2 A Book revealed unto thee so let thy heart be oppressed no more by any difficulty on that account that with it thou mightest warn (the erring) and teach the believers.

29: 45 Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee and establish Regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do.


*** All verses in the Quran that speak of it as a Book are wrong and deceiving since the Quran was never in book form while Muhammad was alive***


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 3.601 Narrated byUmar bin Al Khattab
I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to that of mine. Allah's Apostle had taught it to me (in a different way). So, I was about to quarrel with him (during the prayer) but I waited till he finished, then I tied his garment round his neck and seized him by it and brought him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I have heard him reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to the way you taught it to me." The Prophet ordered me to release him and asked Hisham to recite it. When he recited it, Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way." He then asked me to recite it. When I recited it, he said, "It was revealed in this way. The Qur'an has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easier for you."


*** Only when it came to 'revelations' to Muhammad was Allah inconsistent, indecisive and uniquely occupied with the proclivities and needs of his servant and his followers requiring him to change his mind hundreds of times to accommodate them.


The Bible on the other hand, was revealed by the God of Israel in only ONE VERSION to a SLAVE PEOPLE, who were also Unlearned and Illiterate.


As usual with Muhammad, he, the infallible messenger, would not admit fault but blame it all on the unsuspecting Allah***


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.442 Narrated byIbn Abbas
Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel read the Qur'an to me in one way (i.e. dialect) and I continued asking him to read it in different ways till he read it in seven different ways."


*** This was said by Muhammad to conveniently cover up the fact that he used to forget the contents of many verses, in which Sura he had earlier told his followers they were supposed to be and to whom he had recited them ***


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 4.709 Narrated byAnas
Uthman called Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-'As and 'AbdurRahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham, and then they wrote the manuscripts of the Holy Qur'an in the form of book in several copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi persons: " If you differ with Zaid bin Thabit on any point of the Qur'an, then write it in the language of Quraish, as the Qur'an was revealed in their language." So they acted accordingly. (Said bin Thabit was an Ansari and not from Quraish ).


*** This statement shows that beyond a shadow of a doubt, the language of the Arabs in the Peninsula was not monolithic but had numerous dialects and differences, contray to all of Muhammadan Muslims assertions ***


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.507 Narrated byAnas bin Malik
(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Qur'an in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Qur'an was revealed in this dialect." So they did it.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.509 Narrated byZaid bin Thabit
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said:


'Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Quran by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yamama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project." 'Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)." By Allah if they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By Allah, it is a good project." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allah opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and 'Umar.


So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from (what was written on) palmed stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him.
The Verse is:


"Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty, (till the end of Surat-Baraa' (At-Tauba). (9.128-129) Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with 'Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of 'Umar.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.510 Narrated byAnas bin Malik
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' " (33.23)


In conclusion, the followers of Muhammad, contrary to all proofs and logic, reject the universal record of history and the Bible, but assert and believe that ONLY the Quran is true.


While 'Muslims' hold a high view for all scriptures, including the Hebrew Bible and New Testament, they demand a unique and supreme position for the Quran, claiming its ascendancy over all other scriptures, because, according to them, "initially, it was never written down by men and so was never tainted with men's thoughts or styles." it is often referred to as the "Mother of Books" (taken from sura 43:3).


Since the Quran is such a highly honoured book, it is therefore treated as if it, in itself, is holy. To enquire into its source is considered blasphemy. In most mosques, no one would be permitted to let their Quran touch the floor. Instead, every individual is urged to use ornately decorated book-stands to rest their Quran on while reading from its contents.


Muhammadans look with disfavour and are horrified to learn that Christians not only stack their Bibles alongside other lesser books, but that they write notes in the margins as well. The function of the Quran, then, seems to be in opposition to that of the Bible. This points out another clear distinction between the two faiths view on revelation.


Men and young boys who are able to memorise the Quran are highly revered due to their ability to quote, from memory, any passage from the Quran (and thus have the title of Hafidth). This can is achieved by great numbers of Muhammadan Muslims who do not understand any Arabic since memorising does not require understanding or comprehension. Although it requires years of memorising, merit is found in the rote reading of the Quran in Arabic, and not in its message.


Most Muhammadan Muslims who are not Arab or even Arabic speakers, extol the beauty of the language of the Quran, can quote certain verses, admire the beauty of the text even though they do not comprehend its contents nor its prose.


It is disconcerting that the "beauty of the Quran" has such an influence, yet its "beauty" seems, in fact, to discourage its understanding, which becomes an enemy to its mystique.


Here then is the key which points to the difference between the scriptures of the People of the Book and that of the Muhammadan Muslims .


The fact that they accord the Quran a place of reverence and worship, while memorizing its contents without necessarily understanding it, sparks of idolatry, the very sin ("Shirk" which the Quran itself warns against, as it elevates an object to the same level of reverence as Allah (suras 4:48; 5:75-76; 41:6).


In much of the Muhammadan Muslim world, leather amulets worn on the body are sold outside the mosques (sometimes called Giri-giri). Within these amulets one can find folded pieces of paper with an aya, or verse from the Quran written on them. These verses supposedly have power to ward off evil spirits and diseases. For them, the very letters of the Quran are imbued with supernatural power.


Christians and Jews stand against this view of God's written word. They believe that the power and authority of scriptures comes not from the paper it is written on, but from the words it expresses.


They believe that the Bible is merely the testimony of God's revelation to humanity, and so is not holy in and of itself. It is a text which must be read and studied, much as a textbook is read and studied in school.

Therefore, its importance lies in its content, rather than in its physical pages, just as a newspaper is read and thrown away, though the news it holds may remain imprinted on the readers mind for years to come.


Perhaps, the criticism by Muhammadans that Christians and Jews abuse the Bible is a result of this misunderstanding of its purpose. Once one understands that the significance of the scriptures as nothing more than a repository of God's word, one can then understand why Christians and Jews feel no injunction against writing in its margins, or against laying it on the floor (though most of them would not do so out of respect for its message).


The high regard for the Quran carries over into other areas as well, some of which need to be discussed at this time.


", It no more proves its inspiration than a man's strength demonstrates his wisdom, or a woman's beauty, her virtue. Only by its teachings, its principles, and content can a book be judged rightly; not by its eloquence, elegance, or poetic strength"
(Shorrosh 1988:192).


Whereas the Bible contains much historical narrative, the Quran contains very little. Whereas the Bible goes out of its way to explain unfamiliar terminology or territory, the Quran remains silent.


In fact, the very structure of the Bible, consisting of a library of 66 books, written over a period of 1,500 years, reveals that it is ordered according to chronology, subject and theme.


The Quran, on the other hand, reads more like a jumbled and confused collection of statements and ideas, interposed many times with little relationship to the preceding chapters and verses.


Many scholars admit that it is so haphazard in its make-up that it requires the utmost sense of duty for anyone to plow through it.


The German secular scholar Salomon Reinach in his harsh analysis, states that:


"From the literary point of view, the Koran has little merit. Declamation, repetition, puerility, a lack of logic and coherence strike the unprepared reader at every turn. It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumerable commentaries, and that millions of men are still wasting time in absorbing it."
(Reinach 1932:176)
McClintock and Strong's encyclopedia concludes that:


The matter of the [Koran] is exceedingly incoherent and sententious, the book evidently being without any logical order of thought either as a whole or in its parts. This agrees with the desultory and incidental manner in which it is said to have been delivered.
(McClintock and Strong 1981:151)


Even the Muslim scholar Dashti laments the literary defects of the Quran, saying:


"Unfortunately the Qur'an was badly edited and its contents are very obtusely arranged."


He concludes that:


"All students of the Qur'an wonder why the editors did not use the natural and logical method of ordering by date of revelation, as in 'Ali ibn Taleb's BURNT copy of the text"
[Dashti 1985:28].


The Quran, supposedly 'revealed' to just one man, Muhammad, during a span of a mere 23 years, seems to go nowhere and says little outside of the personal and political affairs of himself and his companions at one particular time in history.


With no logical connection from one sura to the next, one is left with a feeling of incompleteness, waiting for the story to give some meaning. Is it no wonder that many find it difficult to take seriously the claim by the Hadith that the Quran is
"a book second to none in the world," worthy of divine inspiration?


I end this section with a quote from an expert on the Quran, Dr. Tisdall, who says:


"The Qur'an breathes the air of the desert, it enables us to hear the battle-cries of the Prophet's followers as they rushed to the onset, it reveals the working of Muhammad's own mind, and shows the gradual declension of his character as he passed from the earnest and sincere though visionary enthusiast into the conscious imposter and open sensualist."
(Tisdall; Original Sources of the Quran, p27)


According to Muhammadan Muslims the Quran is the final revelation from Allah. In Arabic the Quran is also referred to as 'Al-Kitab' (the book), 'Al-furkan'
(the distinction), 'Al-mas'haf' (from Ethiopic; the scroll), and 'Al-dikhr'
(the warning), as well as other names.


For those who like statistics, you may be interested to know that the Quran consists of:


114 chapters (suras), made up of 30 parts


6,616 [6236 according to others] verses (ayat)


77,943 words, and 338,606 letters.


According to Islamic scholars 86 of the suras were revealed in Mecca, while 28 suras were revealed in Madina.


Whilst the Mosaic Law (Torah) was given to Moses at Mount Sinai which is Granite, and so were the Tablets that were written by the Finger of God, the Quran on the other hand, was 'revealed' to Muhammad in the sands of the Arabian Desert.


It had to be collated and collected from the memories of mortals, from bones, from paper, from tree bark and from chalk and written down 25 years after its beginnings; its contents are as changeable as the sands of the Arabian Desert; without a proper beginning, a middle or an ending.


Unlike the Torah, the Quran's foundations are built on Quicksand, not appropriate for solid foundations and hence is unstable, unsafe and unreliable just like a desert Mirage.





POINTS to PONDER-


After having studied the Quran and Ahadith in depth and detail, the following observations can be made for the readers to ponder:-


1 The text of the Quran is written in a manner that assumes having a lot of knowledge of the Biblical tradition. It is impossible for any of its readers to comprehend it without this prior acquaintance.


2 As pointed out previously, the subject matter and topics within each Surah changes rapidly, without due thought or regard to continuity or logical connection.


3 There are numerous and unexplainable inconsistencies in theological themes, law and grammar.


4 There are repeated duplications within individual Surahs as well as between different ones as if the author is running out of new topics to add.


5 These differences are due to editing by various writers and by tampering with the text in its original form.


6 There are numerous ancient manuscripts of the Quran of the 8th century both from the Great Mosque of Sana, the Qurawiyun Manuscript from the mosque in Fez, and other ancient Qurans around the world, show beyond any doubt that the Quran that we have today is substantially different from what it was in the years just after the death of Muhammad.


7 From the authors about the life Muhammad beginning with Muhammad ibn Ishaq (c. 780 CE) and others following him, there are major and extremely important theological, historical and narrative discrepancies that Muhammadan Muslim theologians do their best to ignore and remove from published literature because they reflect very badly upon the interpretations that they claim to be true but in realty are blatantly false.


8 Numerous misrepresentations of the meaning of several important verses, have been turned into 'inviolate' doctrines that impinge directly and negatively on the manner Muhammadans view themselves vis a vis the rest of the world. Examples are the deliberately falsified interpretations of 9:28 and 17:1 which are used by fundamentalist Muhammadans to justify their enmity and hatred of none-Muslims and their unsubstantiated claims to Jerusalem.


9 Based entirely upon analysing and carefully researching the old manuscripts - for their grammatical, linguistic and textual construct - an important and vital conclusion is arrived at which indicates that contrary to Muhammadan theological and 'traditional' beliefs, there was no firm oral tradition running parallel to the written Quran.


10 There are numerous 'problematic' verses in the Quran such as those of plural verbs with singular subjects.


11 The manner in which the imperative 'Qul' is used in the manuscript as well as 'Qala', indicates the possibility that the Quran in earlier times was believed to be the word of Muhammad speaking and not Allah.


12 It took three centuries after the death of Muhammad before his followers turned the Quran as the 'word of Allah' into a dogma; in this manner, it became impossible - heretical, punishable with death - to challenge or doubt its 'divine' origin and hence conveniently avoid explaining the important grammatical, structural, historical and theological problems in the text of the Quran.


13 Muhammadan theologians use circular logic to 'prove' the 'divine' origin and alleged inimitability of the Quranic text. They fail to explain the fact, that the histories in the Quranic text are all mixed up and intermingled; this in itself is evidence that uncomprehending human hands have caused the discrepancies, the alterations and the editing. These hands cut out or added whatever they disliked or liked. In fact, it is the literary state of the Quran itself that can be shown as proof of its none-divine origin.


14 The historical and recorded existence of the Satanic Verses cast a gigantic shadow upon the veracity and 'divine' origin of the Quran especially with the enormous number of Abrogated and Abrogating Surahs (verses that were either modified or taken out completely).


The Almighty and the Divine would not have to change His 'mind' as time and situations change. The Almighty, by definition, is prescient and all knowing and hence 'already' knows the answers without having to change instructions to suit changing situations.


15 Since there has never been found any written Arabic text in any way shape or form to compare the Quran with, it is then impossible to evaluate whether or not the manner in which the Quran is written is based upon precedence.


Pagan Arabia was almost totally devoid of any written records on any material, not even on stone or clay. They were among the most illiterate peoples of the Middle East, but among the best in Oral deliveries.


16 There are no coins or documents or any other records that mention the Hijrah date in the seventh century. This must have become the standard after the establishment of the Arab Empire for the purposes of correspondence when Islam became the State Religion.


17 It was invariably Muhammad and his followers who broke the treaties that they 'signed' with the other tribes: the Jews of Medina, Mecca and other places, the Quraysh of Mecca, the Christians of Najran and others.


It was Muhammad and his followers who invariably violated the sanctity of the Forbidden Months to ambush the caravans of the Quraysh. All the treaties that he signed were for temporary purposes only to give him time to consolidate and then to unilaterally break them. Umar ibn al Khattab followed exactly the same methodology when he became Khalifa.


18 It was Muhammad who attacked the unsuspecting Quraysh caravan at Badr in the month of Ramadhan 624. It was he who unilaterally abrogated his treaty of Hudaybiyya of 628 with the Quraysh. They honoured the treaty in 629 but he violated it in 630 by attacking and occupying Mecca.


19 It was Muhammad who turned upon the Jews of Medina who gave him protection by dispossessing them of their lands and their wealth, forcing some to convert and later murdering or exiling the remainder.


20 For every one of these actions Muhammad justified with a MADE to ORDER 'Aya' that was very conveniently 'revealed and descended' by Allah AFTER the event and in hindsight.


21 The historical 'record' of the rise of 'Islam' is fraught with discrepancies and inaccuracies. Dates of events that were 'fixed' as accurate in later centuries, were not shown or recorded in the earliest of the Islamic records and narratives; this plainly means that they were 'added' in as was necessary by later 'authors' without any of them having any foundations in 'fact'. In this manner, Muhammadan theologians were able to 'clearly' interpret very vague, unsubstantiated and unclear passages of the Quran.


22 The greatest damage to the Quran - and its evolution - was perpetrated by the early 'Muslim' theologians. They changed it from a vibrant and pliable religious guide to a petrified, unchanging and uncompromising one.


They have forced all 'Muslims' to live in the constrained era of Muhammad and the past without allowing them a path for progress and change. They condmned the followers of Muhammad to the TWILIGHT ZONE of a TIME WARP fixed in the Seventh Century.


23 If the Quran were truly a superior and more advanced theological book than the Torah and the New Testament, why then does it allow


a) the practice of slavery to be continued?


b) The increased discrimination and under-privilege of women?


c) The inhumane punishment for theft? etc.


24 Almost every verse of 'revelation' that was initiated by Muhammad was done in the depth of dark nights - invariably without other independent witnesses - and in response to a specific event, a personal need or action taken by him to justify them. All the traditions that the pagan Arabs had before Islam were made 'HALAL' by Muhammad in 'revelation' after 'revelation' as the occasions required.


Being the only one who was communicating with the angel Gabriel on a daily basis for almost
23 years, it is not much of a wonder that Muhammad was able to cover all occasions and events as and when they suited him.


It was all diabolically simple, ingenious and totally infallible. Even when he did make a serious mistake such as the direction of the Qiblah and the Satanic Verses, he was able to get away with them by producing instantly 'revised' versions.


Those whom Muhammad was duping were after all illiterate, gullible, superstitious and simpleton pagans who became awed by his hallucinations and stories of how he had direct and intimate contacts with Gabriel the Angel/Messenger of the most important god of pagan Mecca, Allah.


He regaled them with promises of incredible pleasures in Paradise if and when they died for "Allah and his messenger". It was always the case of associating Allah with his messenger, so much so, that Allah became a vehicle to elevate Muhammad to the level of the Divine in the eyes of his followers.


25 The same interpreter and other interpreters of the Quran - who quote from Western intellectuals who critique the Bible - use from them whatever suits their nefarious purposes to inflict damage, aspersions and calumny upon the Jews and Christians, but would NEVER accept any similar criticism of their beliefs.


26 The followers of Muhammad are definitely KUFFAR because they invoke the name of Allah in vain and in causes inciting and glorifying death and destruction and not peace, not compassion nor mercy. Moreover they are KUFFAR because only a KAFFIR murders other 'Muslim' believers such as the Jews.


27 Muhammad was morbidly obsessed with the Hereafter in terms not found among the Jews or the Christians.


28 There is no logical or fair way that one can show beyond a reasonable doubt, which of the Hadith stories are TRUE since all of them depend on hear-say, conjecture, failed memories, fertile imagination, editing, interpolation and lies propagated over 150-250 yeas after the death of Muhammad; all of these are made legitimate by attributing to them the aura of 'divine' inspirations.


29 Muhammad was extremely SUPERSTITIOUS believing in the Evil Eye, Satan, Evil Spirits etc. that are reflected in numerous verses of the Quran.


30 Muhammad believed totally in the purification powers of WATER irrespective of it being stagnant or flowing. As usual, he did not appreciate the Biblical injunction of RUNNING water because his understanding of cleanliness was far below that of the Jewish tradition.


31 Muhammad had so fully convinced himself of his mission as the messenger of Allah, that he had no humility in this regard and would countenance no disobedience or opposition from anyone. His arrogance knew no bounds and was the opposite to the characters of Moses or Abraham. His self-delusion was total and 'real'. He always addressed himself and encouraged his followers to use the title
'the apostle of Allah'.


32 It should not be a great wonder as to why he received so many followers, since they were promised and allowed all the following as long as they believe in
'Allah and his apostle':

1. Paradise is theirs for the taking


2. They are allowed booty (enemy enslavement), rape and pillage to their hearts' desires as long as they shared them fairly with their 'brother' pirates


3. Muhammadan men are promised eternal carnal and sensual pleasures - with 72 virgins each- if they died fighting for Allah & Muhammad (Jihad)


4. In real life, the men are allowed 4 wives who have to be submissive to their desires and will and who could be divorced and/or beaten without reason and at will


5. All crimes committed against any and all 'none believers' resulted in no or very little punishment.


Most crimes were

, 'The truth is from your Lord.'Then whosoever wills, let him believe; and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, we have prepared for the Zaalimun{poltheists and wrond-doers}, a fire whose walls be surrounding them{disbelievers}.And if they ask for help {relief,water}, they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. Terrible is the drink, and an evil Murtafaq [dwelling, restingplace.]!

Qr.18 Vs.29

[Quote]85. 21" This is a glorious Quran


22 (inscribed) in a Tablet preserved [Lawhun Mahfooth] "


*** The Quranic tablets are in similitude to those that Moses brought down at Mount Sinai as the Tablets of the Law.


Even the concept of a written Tablet - like most of the other important ideas and precepts of the Quran - is plagiarised from the traditions of the
Jews ***[/Quote]Is Lawhum Mahfooth a thing on this earth like the 10 Commandment Tablets given to Moses? No.

Lawhun Mahfooth is a Book; Mother of All Books from which all pure revelations [Pamphlets given to Ibrahim, Musa [as Suhufi in Surah A'la] and Pure Torah of Musa, Pure Sabur of Daud, Pure Injil of Isa bin Maryam and Quran which still exists in its Purity because Allah says He Safe Guards it Himself all came from written by The Pen "Qalam" as Allah commanded it, before the creation of Adam [AS],the first man.

Are Muslims Muhammadans? If you ask any Muslim, he will say no because that is not a word of title you can identify anyone who is of te islamic faith by. Muhammadan, at best is a word that is not a complete word that is part of a phrase of title of the messenger {AS}as in Muhammandanr rRasulullah.

[Quote]Thus Allah alone is held to be the "Source" of Muhammadan Islam.


Since this is the case, then all efforts to find a HUMAN origin for any part of it would be in vain.


Now, if we can trace the teaching of any part of it, to an earthly source, or to human concepts and ideas existing PRIOR to Muhammad's age, then the alleged divine origin of Muhammadan Islam collapses at once to the ground.


It therefore behooves every true and enlightened Believer, with the utmost diligence, to test whether this claim be true or not. If their opponents can bring to light no human sources, they may contend that by admission Muhammadan Islam is indeed divine; but if otherwise, they cannot but perceive what a fatal conclusion must be drawn.


Let us then test the assertions of those who hold to the existence of human sources, and see whether any portion of the doctrines and tenets of 'Islam' can be traced to other Faiths, Beliefs and Traditions preceding Muhammad's age, or existing at the time.


The Quran asserts that it was the angel Gabriel who recited its contents to Muhammad (Surah 2:97)


2: 97 Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will a confirmation of what went before and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe.


Hence Muhammad received the Quran SECOND HAND and not directly from Allah.


On the other hand, Moses received the Torah directly ' FACE to FACE' from God. He was after all, not only Rasul'ul Allah and his Prophet but also 'Kalim'ul Allah' - he who talked directly to Allah - while Muhammad was only 'Rasul'ul Allah' - the messenger of Allah.


Moreover, Gabriel is one of the Hebrew angels and is the same angel who predicted the virginal and divine birth of Jesus/Messiah as mentioned in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke.


If Jesus was the predicted REDEEMER of humanity, then why would the same Gabriel turn to another person - Muhammad - to fulfil God's will?


Does this mean that Jesus had failed in his mission and a new replacement was necessary?[/Quote]Should the God Who wished to give complete guidance to His creation not be the Only One to give the guidance or should He leave part of it in the hands of man so that they can bastardize the guidance as they did which Jeremiah complained about in OT and which Jesus complained about in NT. The same Jesus who left all guidance, correction and revealing all the truth to the Another Comforter at best did his part. But definitely he was not the best since he deferred to The Another Comforter.

It is interesting to note that Muhammad [as] received the last 4 verses of Chapter 2 in heavens directly from God during his night journey from Makka to Jerusalem and then to heaven where he was given the commandment of daily Salah. Muhammad [as] did not see Allah face to Face because there is no eyes that can see God and live. Read the Bible; No One has ever seen God face to Face. so to say Moses saw God in that sense of face to Face is a lie at least or madness if nothing less.

Is Jesus the redeemer of all mankind, beyond the time that he was on earth and further than the children of israel? Jesus was trying to hide this if it was true from your lips. We should therefore ask you how you knew it and Jesus was ignorant of this noble role, since he said that he was sent to no one but the "lost sheep of the house of israel"?

When humans lied, God sent His Angels to correct humans and give guidance away from the lies. When the children of israel took golden calf for God, God Almighty told Moses to correct them, supporting Moses by Angel Gabriel. Anyone with ability to know the truth will see that when there is lie, truth will come to destroy it, the reason trinity is questioned in many ways in the Quran showing that 3 can never be 1, and 1 can never be 3, and God can not die.

[Quote]Why would the same angel Gabriel predict and serve TWO different and contradictory messengers of God, if Allah is the God of Israel and Jesus?


Since Gabriel was an angel in the Jewish tradition to start with, why would he recite Surahs in the Quran - not in Hebrew but in Arabic - that are not true reflections of those of the Torah or the New Testament but are, in an enormous number of cases, totally incompatible variations of them?


Why would the God of Israel - according to the Quranic version of events - not keep His promises to His People? Is it possible or acceptable to imply that the Almighty had been misleading them?


Why did it take Muhammad twenty-three years - the whole period of his unfinished prophetic mission - to 'reveal' the Quran while it took God forty days and nights to teach the whole of the Torah to Moses?[/Quote]Is the God Who created all mankind the God of the Children of Israel and not God of all mankind, without no ethnic barriers and restrictions?

Quran is unlike Torah of Moses which has words of Moses and words of Aaron, and words of Joshua and words and disputes of the children of israel. What God revealed to Moses in 40 days, is the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments is nothing compared to the Quran. Only a deceitful soul will say that Torah took 40 days, considering that Moses became a person who God was revealing guidance to from The Burning Bush, all the way to the tests and trials which he had in the palace of pharaoh, extending to the destruction of pharaoh and including the 40 years of the aimless going about and the senseless killing of nations in the wilderness. Is this 40 days if you have a sound mind? Where did you throw the years in Egypt and the 40 years in the wilderness to?

Angel Gabriel is not Hebrew or jew. He is a celestial being, unless if only jews live in Heaven and the Angels are jews?

[Quote]Why would the same angel Gabriel predict and serve TWO different and contradictory messengers of God, if Allah is the God of Israel and Jesus?


Since Gabriel was an angel in the Jewish tradition to start with, why would he recite Surahs in the Quran - not in Hebrew but in Arabic - that are not true reflections of those of the Torah or the New Testament but are, in an enormous number of cases, totally incompatible variations of them?


Why would the God of Israel - according to the Quranic version of events - not keep His promises to His People? Is it possible or acceptable to imply that the Almighty had been misleading them?


Why did it take Muhammad twenty-three years - the whole period of his unfinished prophetic mission - to 'reveal' the Quran while it took God forty days and nights to teach the whole of the Torah to Moses?[/Quote]The bold is a proof that Quran is unlike Bible; Torah, Sabur and Injil and post injil of "revelation" books. The Quran is pure, should it copy the "once upon a time" narratives of the bible, when God is the One Who Absolute revealed it? Absolutely No.

Why Jewish tradition when the Book of Guidance, The Quran is for all Mankind till the end of time? I remember many enemies of islam talking about Haman of the court of Pharaoh not being mentioned by the Bible as if Bible is the authority of every human kind's information. The bible is deficient, just as it had failed in its predictions of evil on Ishmael, it has failed to record Haman of Egypt. So to know the truth, about Haman, you have to go to the Egyptology. There in there writing you will find Haman as a builder/engineer/architect in the court of Pharaoh that the flood of exodus happened in his reign.

[Quote]The Quran does not exhibit any sustained narrative; it contains nothing like the details of the biographies and stories which fill the Bible. The heroes of the Bible are reduced to mere names or footnotes in the scheme of the Quran; creatures without depth, breadth or even a 'soul' but fully laden with acrymonious and blood curdling exhortations. The angel Gabriel must have been 'high' on some intoxicant to deliver such mendacities.


Almost all of the Biblical narratives are completely changed without any reason, explanation or logic. If Gabriel were innocent of such perversions, then it must have been Muhammad or the redactors of the Quran who deliberately attended to its falsifications and tampering.[/Quote]If a God who created man says Moses should kill even the babies who are being nursed by their mothers, we should know that this is not something that came from God. Can God of the "Children of Israel" all of a sudden became three; part human, part ghost, part father when the children of Israel knew Him as 1? Did Moses see 3 gods, face to Face? where was Jesus or ghost when Yahweh was revealing the 10 commandments to moses?




[Quote]Is the Quran a divine revelation?


From the logical, historical and theological points of view the answer can only be an EMPHATIC NO.


While the Hebrew Bible records the historical and theological relationship between the People of Israel and their God in an orderly, chronologically sequential and relatively accurate narrative, that of the Quran records the PERSONAL thoughts, needs, hope, fears, lusts, hatred, anger and personally intimate matters of Muhammad ONLY.[/Quote]recording event may not be a revelation. let me use the two genealogies of Jesus as a glaring example; count the men who are his fathers in the two lines. you will find that they are not consistent, even in the explanation given. Will God make such a blunder? No.




[Quote] Hence, the only remaining practical and acceptable conclusion that can explain away the vital differences between the original Biblical version of events and the current Quranic ones are:


A) That the stories of the Quran are not historical for the simple reason that they are in the form of allegories and parables to convey 'moral' or 'spiritual' truths to a pagan people who are without a recorded anchor in history. They are repeated in numerous verses and in different forms for their religious and spiritual contents.


Almost all the human characters in the Quran are two dimensional without a background and without a history who appear on centre stage from no where and go to no where. It is not surprising that Muhammad found very few converts to his 'heroes' while other 'story tellers' succeeded more than him.[/Quote]While the whole of arabia is almost Muslims, few Children of israel convert to Christianity, the religion that their God who earlier was invisible and high in the sky gave them Judaism as a religion, but now that he changed his mind became human, partly and dwelt among them met the worst failure in recorded history, so much so that they hung him to die. This is what the Christians and their bible have turned God to.




[Quote]B) If the above explanation is unacceptable, then the only other conclusion is that the Quran had been deliberately edited, perverted and/or corrupted by the Muhammadan theologians after his death to suit their sectarian and or political agendas.


We do not have the original versions of the Quran because they had been destroyed by its redactors a few years after Muhammad's death to cover up their tampering and not to confuse his followers by having contradictory versions.


The Quran is a simple scripture that offers no unattainable ideals. It has no mystical sacraments, no priestly hierarchy and no 'apostolic' succession. Just like in the Torah concerning Moses, Muhammad is only an ordinary human being who was divinely inspired. The similarities between the Quran and the Torah (Hebrew Bible) - which it slavishly tries to emulate - are unmistakable, numerous and the reasons are obvious and very clear.[/Quote]Was the original Quran different from what we have now? No. Why are you sure? I am sure in the sense that at the time of every revelation, there were 4 known scribes who recorded them and what they recorded were kept in the house of the messenger, in addition to people having bits and pieces of their own which they learnt and memorized because the Quran is a materil used daily in more more ways than in the recitation of it in the salah. The tradition of the painstaking effort in its writing is practiced even now around the world in addition to memorization of this noble book.




[Quote] Muhammadans, none the less, follow the Sunna of Muhammad by claiming that he is greater than Moses and gentler than Jesus and that his message is the only true one since those of the Jews and Christians have been falsified and or corrupted.


They, understandably, none the less, cannot explain how it is possible that Allah 'talked to Moses directly' but did not do so to the allegedly greatest of all the prophets, Muhammad.[/Quote]Verses 2b4 to 287 of Surah Baqarah is revealed to Muhammad [AS] in heaven during the isral wa miraj night journey. Ibrahim [as] is higher than Moses and Jesus, yet God did not invite him to heaven. The only human who went to heaven and returned alive in his human earthly lifetime is Muhammad.




[Quote] Instead, he received his 'revelations' indirectly and second hand through the Hebrew angel, Gabriel. They cannot refute or explain away the fact that the 'traditions' provide for the individual Quranic verses an enormous variety of interpretations and historical situations.


Almost all of the historical narratives in the Quran are echoes, derivatives or altered versions of those found in the Torah and Hebrew Scriptures. Not a single shred of evidence to bolster their spurious claims can be found to substantiate all the preposterous assertions made by Arab and Muhammadan scholars that pre Muhammad Arab tradition had knowledge of the characters and stories of the Torah.


It is a fact that the Quran itself repeatedly asserts, that the pagan Arabs, including Muhammad, were totally 'unlearned' [ummiyoon] and 'illiterate' of previous revelations.[/Quote]Is Jibril a Jew now? This is shameful to assume that Malaika Jibril [AS} is hebrew, when Adam [AS] was not, yet a human being while Angels are not humans. The Quran speaks about Pharaoh's body being saved for the future generations to see the end of evil people, pharaoh being the example here, while the Bible was silent about it. Is this not a sign of the superiority of the Quran, being in pristine state, even now?




[Quote] The Quran is replete with SERIOUS ERRORS pertaining to histories, names, places, grammar and events that run into the hundreds.


The Biblical stories in the Quran are shorn of their extensive original narrative and are presented in a very dry and truncated form. The Quran is a testament to Muhammad's very vivid but definitely not creative imagination in story telling.


Muhammad has a proclivity for the use of dramatic dialogue peppered with invented words and verbs to rhyme but with a minimal sense for drama or action. The successive episodes and events are similar, with ad nauseum repetitive harangues, uninspiring and very boring.[/Quote]The Arabic of Quran is the Yardstick of every education of the Arabic language. Quran Summarizes long winding history or story and avoids the "once upon a time of the Bible." Everyone knows that the best textbook on any subject does not waste efforts in the unnecessary. You go to a tutor for further explanation when you read the highest textbook on a subject. Then you read more simpler books. Quran is the master, while hadith explains, and schoars explain even further. The whole of the death of Pharaoh was stated in a few sentences in the Quran. The whole of Jesus' mission was explained in a single verse in Surah Saffa verse 6.




[Quote] In fact, the manner in which the Quran is written presupposes that the reader/listener should have a goodly and prior knowledge of some of the Biblical events since without the detailed interpretations of the verses - based on the Ahadith - it would be impossible for any reader or listener to understand its meaning or comprehend its stories even if one were a master of the Arabic language.[/Quote]Could any christian show us Prophet Salih, or Prophet Shuaib or Prophet Huud in the Torah or the whole Bible. I will like to see any of the three. If you don't find it, Quran is not in the same level with the corrupted bible. The jews themselves know it. i remember the jewish rabbi singing the name of Muhammad from the songs of Solomon. I remember the book in the Church in Jerusalem saying Jesus was just a human and nothing more, supporting exactly what Quran stands on all along.




[Quote] The ordinary pagan Arab could not at all have been interested in Noah, Moses, Job etc. but only if the Quranic message was directed towards the People of the Book
- especially in the Madina - would that have had any relevance.


If the message of the Quran is supposed to be eternal and unalterable, then many laws, rules and precepts that could have been applicable in its time are archaic in the modern, for example:


a) The rules and regulations controlling the rights, the manner of dress and work practices of women are their disfranchisement are repugnant in today's light. The discrmination against women is serious, onerous and unacceptable both morally and legally and could not have been the product of any compassionate and egalitarian divinity.[/Quote]Many americans are just waking up to the idea that they do not want their breasts and bottoms be the reason people want to talk to them because they have out for sight seeing. what muslim women have been used to, the nuns are partially practicing, today's modern woman is just waking up to it. Many decades the Muslims have been educating their genders, separately, even using using computers and videos to do this. The West just woke up to it in long distance learning and i'm sure they will take credit for it, forgetting that this is a muslim thing.




[Quote] Even the verses of the Quran which were fair towards women at the beginning of Muhammad's perceived mission, were later ABROGATED in favour of men. Women in the Quran are reduced to the level of chattel and as the harbingers of evil.[/Quote]is this true, the bold? can anyone show us the verse and then anyone can compare it to what the bible say about women, starting from Eve? which gender is blamed for the problems of the world?




[Quote] It is a fact that even today, over 50% of the Muhammadans in the world, all females, are perceived as silly creatures and treated with degradation, contempt and discrimination.


They exist in the Muhammadan world at the beck and call of men, for their pleasure and sexual gratification, for procreation, for taking care of the children and for keeping the home.


b) If the Quran were truly superior to previous revelations, then the rules and regulations pertaining to SLAVERY should have been abolished instead of being perpetuated. They cannot be applicable to any class in the modern and humane societies of today.


c) The Quranic injunctions to mercilessly kill and destroy all UNBELIEVERS
"In the Name of Allah" - in MOST of its 114 Suras - leaves one with a very hard time finding evidence of Allah's Compassion and Mercy. In fact, the Quran is full of judgement and hate but with very little mercy or compassion.


There are many more such incompatibilities in the Quran that can only prove, that
its actual legislation was a MAN MADE guiding light in its time but that it should and must change with the evolution of human society.[/Quote]the human culture is different fromIslamic culture. my wife bears her father's name. she is not mandated to cook for me or clean my clothing. i can take care of myself, while she keeps her money, she has access to mine. no disbeliever is killed simply for disbelieving, like moses did to the jebusites, people of jericho, etc and jesus said about those he wished to slain because they do not want him to rule over them. Muhammad lived with jews and Christians and pagans in Madina and all were protected under the first city state constitution which was the best charter covering community of people without discrimination.

SweetNecta stop spamming this thread with your long senseless posts. Are you BecomeRich?

call me muhammadan as much as you want. it does not make me less than a muslim, the proper name for those who accept Muhammad [as] as the last of God's Messengers [as]. your calling me muhammadan is smilar to aloy/emeka calling me a she, and will be similar to if i say you are a homosexual. each of them is wrong, unless you are a homosexual, i will be correct. you see how the finger of ignorance and deliberate distortion of facts is pointing directly at you?

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is definitely a duck. I don't know the kind of male who will choose a fruity name like SWEET-NECTA unless you are gay.

Sweet necta, pleas ask Aloy/Emeka this question: WAS JESUS A CHRISTIAN?

chief Imam:

Sweet necta, pleas ask Aloy/Emeka this question: WAS JESUS A CHRISTIAN?

Mumu, Christians are followers of Christ. The word CHRIST-IANITY was derived from CHRIST. How can Jesus Christ [our lord and saviour] be following himself?. Stop practicing RELIGION and accept Christ in order to find life. You are lost but can still be found if you accept Christ today. There is still time.

^^^^^

Double mumu, Jesus was a practicing Jew, your condition is worse than an attempt to shave a man in his absence, keep worshiping an adherant of Judaism-accd to d bible.

there is no contradiction in islam.there is no doubt denominations which contradict themselves but there is only one true islam.when compared to the thousand and one sects of christianity,you will see that islam is too united in its beliefs and doctrines.for instance,you can hardly define who a christian is because even when you do,you still will find that the christian denominations differ in the definitions themselves.for example,not all christians believe in trinity and you will find at least one christian group that does not believe in at least one doctrine others believe in.the only christian doctrine christians in our present time believe in,is the "crucifixion".even in that you still have differences.in the past you find christians who believed Jesus was not even crucified just as all muslims do believe.muslims do have fundamental beliefs which all of them hold regardless whether or not they from the same school of thought or denomination.those fundamental doctrines are well defined in the Holy Quran and those are sufficient enough for everyone to cling to islam and claim his religon to be islam.

as for me personally,i believe true islam is shia islam.the sunnis among themselves are divided into at least 4 schools of thought and several movements.in shia islam,we are united under the will of the Prophet Muhammad (sa) and we only have a school of thought.the Prophet (sa) said:

“Behold! My Ahlul-Bayt are like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarked in it was SAVED, and whoever turned away from it was PERISHED.”

so when all muslims are united under the umbrella of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) there would be no deviations or differences.