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Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by ichuka(m): 8:36pm On Feb 16, 2017
Luke1:35
King James Bible
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that HOLY THING which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Mary was never Holy when she carried Christ in her womb.it was Christ in her womb that was Holy.

Luke1:47
King James Bible
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOR.
She also needed to be saved.
My point is if she's not Holy and needed a Savior,how can she be a co-redeemer?

2 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Aizenosa(m): 8:59pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
We are talking about mary voluntarily cooperating in bring forth our redeemer someone is talk about the finding of Jesus in the temple.

does the later nulify the former? the mary sin by looking for her 12yr old son so that the protestants of today now claim that she didnt cooperate with GOD'S plan.

may God save us from silly talk.

Oga u have started to bully just like ur brother Syncan, deris god ooo
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by chiedu7: 9:08pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
We are talking about mary voluntarily cooperating in bring forth our redeemer someone is talk about the finding of Jesus in the temple.

does the later nulify the former? the mary sin by looking for her 12yr old son so that the protestants of today now claim that she didnt cooperate with GOD'S plan.

may God save us from silly talk.

That does not make her a co-redeemer, as mary herself had sin.
That's why she called God her saviou as ichuka pointed out below.

ichuka:
Luke1:35
King James Bible
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that HOLY THING which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Mary was never Holy when she carried Christ in her womb.it was Christ in her womb that was Holy.

Luke1:47
King James Bible
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOR.

She also needed to be saved.
My point is if she's not Holy and needed a Savior,how can she be a co-redeemer?


Making Mary your co-redeemer means that Jesus is not enough.

By the way why do you want a redeemer who needs saving herself tongue

Jesus is more than enough

2 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 9:22pm On Feb 16, 2017
donnie:


And that is the lie in Catholicism I'm trying to point out.
That's their basis for sneaking in false doctrines as it suits them. I mean how else would they even consider such falsehood as made in this their request to pope Francis if they didnt first assume that the truth isn't absolute?

Jesus is coming soon, all such liars will be judged.

There is no lie there, what i state are facts.

scripture doesnt claim to be the ONLY source of revelation,
it contains objective truth but it doesn't claim to sufficiently
expound all truths that God has revealed.

If you will sit in ur house and call me a liar then u better show me what is untrue in what i have stated.
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 9:26pm On Feb 16, 2017
Aizenosa:


Oga u have started to bully just like ur brother Syncan, deris god ooo
Some kind talk no make sense, how will someone tell me that mary didnt cooperate in bringing forth the redeemer and tell me that is becos mary looked for her missing 12yr old.


that is silly talk.

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 9:34pm On Feb 16, 2017
chiedu7:


That does not make her a co-redeemer, as mary herself had sin.
That's why she called God her saviou as ichuka pointed out below.




Making Mary your co-redeemer means that Jesus is not enough.

By the way why do you want a redeemer who needs saving herself tongue

Jesus is more than enough


Another silly arguement, even the redeemer must work with others. people have to be with him to listen and note his words and works.

But even most importantly Jesus didnt fall from the sky, someone agreed to give birth to him.

someone cooperated with God to give us all a redeemer, mary cooperated with the redeemer so u will be saved. that is true whether to agree or not.

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 9:40pm On Feb 16, 2017
ichuka:
Luke1:35
King James Bible
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that HOLY THING which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Mary was never Holy when she carried Christ in her womb.it was Christ in her womb that was Holy.

Luke1:47
King James Bible
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOR.
She also needed to be saved.
My point is if she's not Holy and needed a Savior,how can she be a co-redeemer?
Another silly arguement. must i be a billionaire to work in a billionaire factory.


Even if you tell me that mary is the worst of all sinners it still wont change the fact that she cooperated in the plan of salvation and brough forth the redeemer.


Oya find another non seqitur arguement against mary as co-redemptorist.

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by donnie(m): 9:54pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:


There is no lie there, what i state are facts.

scripture doesnt claim to be the ONLY source of revelation,
it contains objective truth but it doesn't claim to sufficiently
expound all truths that God has revealed.

If you will sit in ur house and call me a liar then u better show me what is untrue in what i have stated.

See what Peter the one you claim was your first pope had to say about the scriptures...

2Pet1:17-19

"For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts
"

He says the scriptures are more sure than even the voice they heard at the mount of transfiguration. He says to follow the written Word like a light shinning in a dark place.

So it doesn't matter weda we see "Mary" floating in the air, it will not change the truth as contained in the written Word. It abides forever!

Gal 1:8
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."

So all those who promote such teachings are cursed.

2 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by plappville(f): 10:09pm On Feb 16, 2017
chiedu7:


See how you Catholics mess up the gospel of Jesus.

How on earth did Mary co-redeem please?
How can see co-redeem when Jesus said that she does not want Him Jesus to do His Fathers business.
Which means Mary was not helping at all let alone co-redeeming.

Remember when Jesus was small and stayed back at Jerusalem to discuss at the temple,
remember what Mary said to Jesus & Jesus's reply?

Luke 2
43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.


Again when Jesus was preaching, if Mary was co-redeeming why was she not listening to Jesus?
Why did she come to pull Jesus away from preaching?

Also notice Jesus's reply starts with BUT, showing you that Mary was not with Jesus's plan.

Matthew 12 (KJV)
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?


Again we can see that when Jesus performed His first miracle, Jesus asked Mary, "WHAT IS MY BUSINESS WITH THEE"?
If She has no business with Jesus, how can see be a co-redeemer?

John 2 (KJV)
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.


So please explain to me from the bible, how on earth that Mary is a co-redeemer please when the she did not understand what Jesus came to do?

Beautifully presented.

1000 likes... kiss kiss

3 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by plappville(f): 10:13pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
We are talking about mary voluntarily cooperating in bring forth our redeemer someone is talk about the finding of Jesus in the temple.

does the later nulify the former? the mary sin by looking for her 12yr old son so that the protestants of today now claim that she didnt cooperate with GOD'S plan.

may God save us from silly talk.

Sometimes i wonder what makes you different from Islam. Arguing blindly. angry
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 10:27pm On Feb 16, 2017
plappville:


Sometimes i wonder what makes you different from Islam. Arguing blindly. angry
All this ad hominem so that you can sit in ur house and deny the fact that mary voluntarily cooperated in giving us the redeemer.

You can insult me if you like but at least speak the truth... Did may willing cooperate with the plan of salvation and birth the redeemer?

Bias is a disease, speak the truth!

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 10:32pm On Feb 16, 2017
donnie:


See what Peter the one you claim was your first pope had to say about the scriptures...

2Pet1:17-19

"For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts
"

He says the scriptures are more sure than even the voice they heard at the mount of transfiguration. He says to follow the written Word like a light shinning in a dark place.

So it doesn't matter weda we see "Mary" floating in the air, it will not change the truth as contained in the written Word. It abides forever!
non seqitur again. has nothing to do with the topic. i wont waste time xplaning.
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by donnie(m): 10:36pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
non seqitur again. has nothing to do with the topic. i wont waste time xplaning.

I don't blame you. You are blind.

2 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by chiedu7: 10:46pm On Feb 16, 2017
plappville:


Beautifully presented.

1000 likes... kiss kiss

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Aizenosa(m): 11:06pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
Some kind talk no make sense, how will someone tell me that mary didnt cooperate in bringing forth the redeemer and tell me that is becos mary looked for her missing 12yr old.


that is silly talk.

Oga even the devil knows the word of God and tries to twist it every second he got, so we just have to help to make known what has been written in clear understanding for others to understand.

2 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 11:18pm On Feb 16, 2017
donnie:

I don't blame you. You are blind.
ad hominem.
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by plappville(f): 11:35pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
All this ad hominem so that you can sit in ur house and deny the fact that mary voluntarily cooperated in giving us the redeemer.

You can insult me if you like but at least speak the truth... Did may willing cooperate with the plan of salvation and birth the redeemer?

Bias is a disease, speak the truth!

Where is the insult?
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by plappville(f): 11:39pm On Feb 16, 2017
Ubenedictus:
All this ad hominem so that you can sit in ur house and deny the fact that mary voluntarily cooperated in giving us the redeemer.

You can insult me if you like but at least speak the truth... Did may willing cooperate with the plan of salvation and birth the redeemer?

Bias is a disease, speak the truth!

You have the bias disease flowing in your vain. How can you reject/ignore this plain Scriptures?

chiedu7:


See how you Catholics mess up the gospel of Jesus.

How on earth did Mary co-redeem please?
How can see co-redeem when Jesus said that she does not want Him Jesus to do His Fathers business.
Which means Mary was not helping at all let alone co-redeeming.

Remember when Jesus was small and stayed back at Jerusalem to discuss at the temple,
remember what Mary said to Jesus & Jesus's reply?

Luke 2
43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.


Again when Jesus was preaching, if Mary was co-redeeming why was she not listening to Jesus?
Why did she come to pull Jesus away from preaching?

Also notice Jesus's reply starts with BUT, showing you that Mary was not with Jesus's plan.

Matthew 12 (KJV)
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?


Again we can see that when Jesus performed His first miracle, Jesus asked Mary, "WHAT IS MY BUSINESS WITH THEE"?
If She has no business with Jesus, how can see be a co-redeemer?

John 2 (KJV)
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.


So please explain to me from the bible, how on earth that Mary is a co-redeemer please when the she did not understand what Jesus came to do?
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 12:10am On Feb 17, 2017
plappville:


You have the bias disease flowing in your vain. How can you reject/ignore this plain Scriptures?
What did the plain scripture say? That mary didnt cooperate with God when she gave birth to the redeemer?

sorry dear but that scripture is largely irrelevant in this issue. Mary's cooperation with God in the plan of salvation by bringing forth the redeemer stands even if u claim she didnt alway understand Jesus. one doesnt nulify the other, the passage that was quoted are irrelevant as they dont address the issue in question, hence the arguement there is non seqitur.

I see u didnt answer my question.

Did may willing cooperate with the plan of salvation and
birth the redeemer?

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 12:18am On Feb 17, 2017
plappville:


Where is the insult?
If it wasnt there before it is there now.
plappville:


You have the bias disease flowing in your vain. How can you reject/ignore this plain Scriptures?

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by donnie(m): 4:38am On Feb 17, 2017
Ubenedictus:
ad hominem.

W a t e v a...

Pope Francis should reject such false doctrine. Except of course he's part of the same satanic agenda (mystery Babylon).
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Alexk2(m): 6:21am On Feb 17, 2017
Ubenedictus:
so it is idolatry to state that in an inferior way mary contributed to our redemption by voluntarily cooperating with God to bring forth our redeemer?

Abeg do u even know the meaning of idolatry or are you just throwing fancy words around?
Yes it idolatry to call Mary "CO-redemptive" or to give her the credit that belong to God....it's idolatry to consider worshipping her in whatever way or letting her share the glory with God and Jesus Christ.

Btw if you're looking for those who "contributed", it'll then be unfair to single only Mary out...what about Joseph; have considered his role?. ...even the herdsmen who owned the manger where Jesus was born deserves sure credit but they're all vessels and God determines their reward not by us turning them to object of worship

6 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Syncan(m): 6:34am On Feb 17, 2017
"And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed". Lk.2:34-35

O Simeon, why did you have to include only her in this?...and they still think she didn't participate....chai

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Syncan(m): 6:51am On Feb 17, 2017
When a parent lovingly tells a child ... or a lover tells his love, who has just persuaded him/her to grant a favor: "What do I do with you?", we all understand it, and if we're watching, we smile. But when Mary persuades Jesus to grant a favor and Jesus tells his mom, "What have i to do with thee?", Oh our understanding takes a knock and changes direction to "Jesus doesn't have any business with his mother",

Chai....devil, it shall not be well with you ever!

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by DoctorAlien(m): 7:27am On Feb 17, 2017
Ubenedictus:
Please don't lie about catholic just because you want to make a point. abeg, na sin.
*

men wrote scripture and that is true but catholic are very quick to add that they wrote it under the inspiration of the holy spirit. Scripture is spirit breathed and so it is inerrant and a primary source of Divine revelation.

Even so scripture doesnt claim to be the ONLY source of revelation, it contains objective truth but it doesn't claim to sufficiently expound all truths that God has revealed.

That isnt deception it is fact.

Stop lying! The Bible says that it is able to make one wise unto salvation(2 Tim. 3:15). If so, then it is enough for the Christian, since the end is salvation.

The fables and lies which Roman Catholic theologians cook up are not Scripture, neither are they able to make one wise unto salvation.

4 Likes

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by DoctorAlien(m): 7:56am On Feb 17, 2017
Mary had no part whatsoever to play in the salvation of man. In fact, she needed salvation too, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD. GOD chose to introduce His only begotten Son as a man through Mary, and she yielded. Finish!

Mary is not Co-Anything. GOD says that He will not share His glory with any man. The Bible says that Jesus is able to save to the uttermost those that come to GOD through Him(Heb. 7:25). So, Mary has no part to play in that salvation. She got saved by the grace of GOD. Jesus is able to save to the uttermost.

3 Likes 3 Shares

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by orunto27: 10:46am On Feb 17, 2017
Son behold your Mother
Mother behold your son.
Redemption started there, that those who believe in Him henceforth will not perish but will have Eternal Life
Mary's Role stopped there as God's Vessel for Miraculous Reproduction.
In The Hands of God, Mary was just "The Newest of God's Vessel for Human Produce", after Eve and Mrs JOB.
Whatever became of The Three after their Deaths was God's Pleasure.
In other words, Only God REDEEMS.
Christ is God. He built His Own Vessel to REDEEM US UP TO HIMSELF IN HEAVEN.
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 8:45pm On Feb 17, 2017
Syncan:
"And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed". Lk.2:34-35

O Simeon, why did you have to include only her in this?...and they still think she didn't participate....chai

Weytin person no go hear.
Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 8:50pm On Feb 17, 2017
orunto27:
Son behold your Mother
Mother behold your son.
Redemption started there, that those who believe in Him henceforth will not perish but will have Eternal Life
Mary's Role stopped there as God's Vessel for Miraculous Reproduction.
In The Hands of God, Mary was just "The Newest of God's Vessel for Human Produce", after Eve and Mrs JOB.
Whatever became of The Three after their Deaths was God's Pleasure.
In other words, Only God REDEEMS.
Christ is God. He built His Own Vessel to REDEEM US UP TO HIMSELF IN HEAVEN.
so because only God redeems that also means no creature cooperated volutarily in his plan abi?

Lord have mercy.

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 8:55pm On Feb 17, 2017
DoctorAlien:
Mary had no part whatsoever to play in the salvation of man. In fact, she needed salvation too, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD. GOD chose to introduce His only begotten Son as a man through Mary, and she yielded. Finish!

Mary is not Co-Anything. GOD says that He will not share His glory with any man. The Bible says that Jesus is able to save to the uttermost those that come to GOD through Him(Heb. 7:25). So, Mary has no part to play in that salvation. She got saved by the grace of GOD. Jesus is able to save to the uttermost.
so you also wish to deny that mary gave birth to the redeemer and so voluntarily cooperated in God's plan for redemption?

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 8:57pm On Feb 17, 2017
DoctorAlien:


Stop lying! The Bible says that it is able to make one wise unto salvation(2 Tim. 3:15). If so, then it is enough for the Christian, since the end is salvation.

The fables and lies which Roman Catholic theologians cook up are not Scripture, neither are they able to make one wise unto salvation.
My computer science textbook are able to make me wise unto programming, that doesnt mean every programming language are minutely expounded therein.

The bible is able to make you wise unto salvation doesnt mean it contains all revealed truth.

1 Like

Re: Roman Catholics Requests Pope Francis Refer To Mary As Co-redemptrix With Jesus by Ubenedictus(m): 9:05pm On Feb 17, 2017
Alexk2:

Yes it idolatry to call Mary "CO-redemptive" or to give her the credit that belong to God....it's idolatry to consider worshipping her in whatever way or letting her share the glory with God and Jesus Christ.

Btw if you're looking for those who "contributed", it'll then be unfair to single only Mary out...what about Joseph; have considered his role?. ...even the herdsmen who owned the manger where Jesus was born deserves sure credit but they're all vessels and God determines their reward not by us turning them to object of worship
Abeg weytin concern object of worship here? did the op say that catholics are asking the pope to make anyone object of worship?...you just like to go off point and propound non seqitur arguements.

Talking of St Joseph, he is also called the Just by catholics and has the title protector of the infant Jesus and head of the holy family among others becos that is the role he played. That doesnt negate mary cooperation in salvations plan

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