Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God - Religion (25) - Nairaland
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Is There Any Special Power In Calling Jesus' Name Three Times During Prayer ? / Is Jesus God? / Prominent Muslim Lecturer Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus Christ 'god (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 1:26pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Shame it so sad and insulting to intelligent people if muslims claim there quran was preserved by memory. Lets look how this claim falls on its back when we look at their own scripture. Even the so called prophet of islam failed to memorise his quran and had lapses in his recitation. Narrated Aisha: The Prophet heard a man reciting the Qur'an in the mosque and said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on him, as he has reminded me of such-and-such Verses of such a Surah." (Bukhari: volume 6, book 61, number 556, Khan) Narrated Hisham: (The same Hadith, adding): which I missed (modifying the Verses). (Bukhari: volume 6, book 61, number 557, Khan) 'A'isha reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) heard a person reciting the Qur'an at night. Upon this he said: May Allah show mercy to him; he has reminded me of such and such a verse which I had missed in such and such a surah. (Muslim: book 4, number 1720, Siddique) 'A'isha reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) listened to the recitation of the Qur'an by a man in the mosque. Thereupon he said: May Allah have mercy upon him; be reminded me of the verse which I had been made to forget. (Muslim: book 4, number 1721, Siddique) Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Khudayj: One day the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prayed and gave the salutation while a rak'ah of the prayer remained to be offered. A man went to him and said: You forgot to offer one rak'ah of prayer. ... (Abu Dawud: book 3, number 1018, Hasan) Narrated Imran ibn Husayn: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) led them in prayer and forgot something, so he made prostrations and uttered the tashahhud, then gave the salutation. (Abu Dawud: book 3, number 1034, Hasan) Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: ... (Muhammad said) I am only a human being and I forget just as you do; so when I forget, remind me, ... (Abu Dawud: book 3, number 1015, Hasan) Narrated 'Abdullah: ... (Muhammad said) I am a human being like you and liable to forget like you. So if I forget remind me ... (Bukhari: volume 1, book 8, number 394, Khan) So sad for these poor muslims to scramble and try validate their cult. 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 2:04pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Lets look at more proof that the uran is not so well preserbwd and that its multiple versions do in fact differ in translations. We all know that the sun cannot set in a murky or muddy pool on earth but allah seems to believe so in his quran, depending on the translation of course We note in Yusuf Ali he clearly says in verse 86 that ... he found the sun setting in a spring of water. This is a definitive statement. Notice how this verse is sanitised by Sher Ali who suddenly says ...he found it setting as if in a pool... Im not gonna go further as you get the picture. The translation tried to disguise the fact that allah actually believes the sun sets in a muddy pool. Read for yourself and see that these verses differ from each other. So muslim tell me again the quran was preserved in its original form. Its a joke Yusuf Ali: [018:083] They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story." [018:084] Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends. [018:085] One (such) way he followed, [018:086] Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." Dr. Munir Munshey [018:083] They inquire about Dhul Qurnain. Say, “Here, I will tell you about him.” [018:084] We established him firmly in the land and laid at his disposal the means to obtain everything. [018:085] He undertook a mission [018:086] And reached the land of the setting sun. He saw the sun setting behind the murky hot springs. And he found a people living there nearby. We said, “Oh Dhul Qurnain! You may punish them, or treat them nicely.” Sher Ali: [ 018:083 ] And they ask thee concerning Dhu'l Qarnain. Say, `I will recite to you something of his account.' [018:084] WE established him in the earth and gave him the means to achieve everything. [018:085] The he followed a certain way. [018:086] Until when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting as if in a pool of murky water, and near it he found a people. WE said, `O Dhu'l Qarnain, you may punish them, or treat them with kindness.' Shakir: [018:083] And they ask you about Zulqarnain. Say: I will recite to you an account of him. [018:084] Surely We established him in the land and granted him means of access to every thing. [018:085] So he followed a course. [018:086] Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit. Pickthall: [018:083] They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. [018:084] Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. [018:085] And he followed a road [018:086] Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. Sale: [018:083] The Jews will ask thee concerning Dhu'lkarnein. Answer, I will rehearse unto you an account of him. [018:084] We made him powerful in the earth, and We gave him means to accomplish every thing he pleased. [018:085] And he followed his way, [018:086] until he came to the place where the sun setteth; and he found it to set in a spring of black mud; and he found near the same a certain people. And we said, O Dhu'lkarnein, either punish this people, or use gentleness towards them. Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan: [018:083] And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: "I shall recite to you something of his story." [018:084] Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. [018:085] So he followed a way. [018:086] Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness." Palmer: [018:083] And they will ask thee about Dhu 'l Qarnain, say, 'I will recite to you a mention of him; [018:084] verily, we established for him in the earth, and we gave him a way to everything; [018:085] and he followed a way [018:086] until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a black muddy spring, and he found thereat a people.' We said, 'O Dhu 'l Qarnain! thou mayest either torment these people, or treat them well.' Arberry: [018:083] They will question thee concerning Dhool Karnain. Say: 'I will recite to you a mention of him. [018:084] We established him in the land, and We gave him a way to everything; [018:085] and he followed a way [018:086] until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and he found nearby a people. We said, 'O Dhool Karnain, either thou shalt chastise them, or thou shalt take towards them a way of kindness.' Khalifa: [018:083] They ask you about Zul-Qarnain. Say, "I will narrate to you some of his history." [018:084] We granted him authority on earth, and provided him with all kinds of means. [018:085] Then, he pursued one way. [018:086] When he reached the far west, he found the sun setting in a vast ocean, and found people there. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule as you wish; either punish, or be kind to them." Rodwell: [018:083] They will ask thee of Dhoulkarnain [the two-horned]. SAY: I will recite to you an account of him. [018:084] We stablished his power upon the earth, and made for him a way to everything. [018:085] And a route he followed, [018:086] Until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it to set in a miry fount; and hard by he found a people. We said, "O Dhoulkarnain! either chastise or treat them generously." 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 2:48pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
@Murtadd, its like you have run out of ideas, otherwise I cant see how the above two posts you just posted have anything to do with the preservation of the Qur'an, if you want to prove that the Qur'an was not preserved simply bring two versions of the Qur'an, just like there are many versions of the bible e.g the protestants version has 66 books while the catholic version has 73 books, if you cannot, and you cannot then you have no point. There is only one Qura'an in use in the whole world from Saudi Arabia to Malaysia to Albania to America to Nigeria to Egypt, this is simlpy incredible! On the issue of Dhul Qarnain, note that the different translations you quoted are mere differences in translations by different translators of the Qur'an, none of them is the Qur'an, they are mere translations of the Qur'an, Fortunately for Muslims we have the original Qur'an in Arabic which is one, unlike the Christian bible where the original is lost. On the issue of sun setting on murky water or spring, if you don't understand a Qur'anic verse, the proper proper thing to do is to ask Islamic Scholars. If you want to properly understand that verse you need to read further up to 18:90 where it says that He (Dhul Qarnain) journeyed east and saw the sun rising upon a people. Allah knows best. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 3:28pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Murtadd4Christ: I have fabricated things against God” is a Lie Against Prophet Muhammed Peace Be Upon Him. October 16, 2008 — Nora's Sensation Some pathetic non-Muslims use unreliable quotes from unreliable books. They quote the following from Al-Tabari’s book: “I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111) Response: This is in fact such a weak and stupid argument made by some Christians , and they desperately and shamelessly use it to disprove the prophethood of Muhammed. For starter, who is Tabari ?! Tabari was a HISTORIAN not a scholar, so he does not verify the narrations as we will read in the introduction of his book. Anyway, Islamic historians would simply compile all the known narrations about a certain event, regardless of how authentic or reliable each of those narrations were. They would copy the Isnads (chains of transmitters) into their books, in order that the Muhaditheen (scholars of Hadith) could determine which narration was Sahih/Hasan (authentic/good) and which was Dhaeef (weak) or even Mawdoo (fabricated). In other words, the historians compiled the narrations, and the Muhaditheen authenticated them. Therefore, based on the above, we find that Tareekh at-Tabari is simply a COLLECTION OF NARRATIONS on certain events; some of these narrations are ACCURATE, whereas others are NOT. The authenticity of each narration depends on the Isnad (chain of transmitters): if the narration was transmitted by reliable narrators, then it would be accepted as valid, but if it was transmitted by unreliable people, then the narration was to be disregarded. Tabari says in a disclaimer in the introduction of his book: “I shall likewise mention those (narrators) who came after them, giving additional information about them. I do this so that it can be clarified whose transmission (of traditions) is praised and whose information is transmitted, whose transmission is to be rejected and whose transmission is to be disregarded…The reader should know that with respect to all I have mentioned and made it a condition to set down in this book of mine, I rely upon traditions and reports which have been transmitted and which I attribute to their transmitters. I rely only very rarely upon (my own) rationality and internal thought processes. For no knowledge of the history of men of the past and of recent men and events is attainable by those who were not able to observe them and did not live in their time, except through information and transmission produced by informants and transmitters. This knowledge cannot be brought out by reason or produced by internal thought processes. This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I HAVE MERELY REPORTED IT as it was reported to me.(Tareekh at-Tabari, Vol.1, Introduction)” [ http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/islam/tabari ] So this quote is a LIE against Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), not just that, but there were many lies invented by the hypocrites from among the Jews in order to REJECT prophet Muhammed. The people were certain that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the awaited one and to defend themselves, the hypocrites from the Jews invented such lies. Inventing lies is not a big problem for the liars, this is their job. For example, the Prophet once recited some Surahs(verses from Quran) to the pagans in Makkah and prostrated to God Almighty at the end. The pagans who were speechless at the beauty of the recitation also prostrated. When the news spread to the leaders of the pagans, they were upset and were looking to take action against those pagans who had prostrated. In order to defend themselves, those pagans lied that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had said good things about their false gods. The lie was made to defend themselves. If these Christians feel that the hypocrites were telling the truth and he really praised the pagan gods, then he must also accept the hypocrites around Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) who claimed the same for Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him). Just like the hypocrites invented lies against the Prophets of the Old Testament (sinners, rapists, killers, incest performers, idol worshippers, nudists etc), they invented lies against Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) but the difference is that Muslims have rejected these hypocrites and have thrown them of their books . Another thing, Muhammed peace be upon him was SINCERE, and he was called ”The Trustworthy” and “Truthful” before his prophethood, so how can he fabricate things on God, doesn’t make any sense, dose it ?! Christians’ conclusion that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had Satan behind him just reminds one of the story of Lazarus when Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) raised him from death by the permission of God Almighty. The hypocrites around him stated that “the devil was behind him”. Such allegations have been labeled at Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well and it is no surprise at all. So this argument that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) openly said that he lied is just PATHETIC and CHILDISH as can be seen. Making use of the weakest of weak narrations is the job of the HYPOCRITES. I bear witness there’s no god but Allah, and Muhammed is his final messenger.. And Allah knows the best.. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 3:38pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Binb: Oh you are familiarr with me. Thats good. I shouldve have known that you are the spammer with no obvious reply. Can you read?. Clearly those verses about the muddy pool is not the same. One says he found it setting and the other one says he found as if..... Read again muslim. Clearly youre in denial. Look specifically at Sher Ali and Yusuf Ali. They differ tremendously. Imagine one person say it is muhammad and the other says it appears to be muhammad. Those are different statements and not even similar. I have also proven this with my previous posting in allah prays. You have multiple versions of the quran as proven muslim 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 3:47pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Binb: Oh I nearly missed this one. Its si laughabke that muslim claim they have only ONE quran in arabic. I have proven that quran was already altered from the onset. You are sitting with an Uthmanic quran. And another fact, you claim the only authentic quran is the arabic one yet hundreds of muslims dont know arabic. Does that mean english muslims are jnot real muslims with only half truths. See how stupid and silly you sound muslim. Youre in denial The two verses as well as the ones that shows allah prays was translated from your so called arabic quran. So why then does the translators have differences. Shame try again muslim 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 4:35pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
IbnIslam: Wow the way muslims will try and hide their deceit. Imagine this muslim so casually wanna say "Who is Tabari? Tabari was indeed a prominent figure in islam. He brought the ummah great information of islam and also tafsir al Tabari which is commentary on the quran. So this man cannot be painted so casually as muslim want us to believe. His works are very fundamental in islam. Now lets examine Tabari's disclaimer that you so boldly rely on as a rebuttal. Tabari says in his disclaimer that he in fact only transmit what was reported to him. So in fact Tabari says in his disclaimer that he recorded both authenticated and none authenticated hadiths. So it will be false to assume that Tabari 6:111 is in fact false. From Tabari himself this might be true and also likely false. So this leaves the muslim still in another knot. How does he know its false. Nowhere does Tabari in fact say this hadith is FALSE. So this leave the muslim exactly where he started. The muslim must now hunt for another source that in fact states that this hadith Tabari 6:111 is daeef or false. Tabari in actual fact washed his hand in innocence on this matter. He neither confirms or deny this hadiths authenticity. So muslim you have proven absolutely nothing at all. So we can still use this hadith to prove that muhammad confessed that he fabricated the quran. You have once again failed to disprove anything muslim. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 4:38pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Murtadd4Christ: Now that is precisely the point im making, where did you see you see "as if" please see the relevant portion of verse 86: حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا and verse 90 حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَطْلِعَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَطْلُعُ عَلَىٰ قَوْمٍ لَّمْ نَجْعَل لَّهُم مِّن دُونِهَا سِتْرًا both verses contain the Verb "wajada ha" Why should I go to Yusuf Ali's translation when I can refer to the Original? Unlike Christians we have the original Qur'an in pure elegant Arabic |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 4:46pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Murtadd4Christ: Spare me the story, if you still think there is another version of the Qur'an direct to where I can get one. Nobody said English muslims are not muslims, but ask any muslim, when it comes to five daily prayers muslims recite only the Arabic Qur'an, you can not use English or French or Urdu translation. The only Qur'an is the Arabic Qur'an all others are translations Even during ceremonial swearing in of officials its the Arabic Qur'an that is used, It is also the one that is memorized in it entirety. NB learn to make your points without insults, I really do not see any need of you using "siily and stupid" in your response |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 5:02pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Binb: Muslim your trickery to use arabic just shows your cumning. I have challenged yiu on the engkish qurans muslims. Now you wanna hide behind arabic. Only cowards do that. How many muslims fluently speak or read arabic. Another form of deception muslim. If thats the case you should blame your own translators for screwing islam. Your own islamic scholars didnt get the arabic conversion right and they supposedly spoke arabic. So do you confirm that Yusuf Ali is a wrong version of your arabic quran. Wow muslim another nail in your islam english quran. Laugh my ass of muslim, you just confirmed what Ive been posting. The versions of your english quran is screwed and so are all the muslims who uses these versions. Wakakakak wakakakak another own goal neh muslim |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 5:16pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Binb: What. Im really trying to contain my laughing here. You claim all muslims recite the quran in arabic. Half of them dont even know arabic and merely recite it as partots. Now again muslim, where do you think the english versions comes from. It is supposedly translated from your "one" arabic quran. Then how the hell does your translators get it so wrong. This clearly proves that your "original" quran itself is dubious or unclear, hence the immense differences in translations. Why is the english qurans not an exact copy of the so called arabic quran. You are cornered and cannot explain the english versions now you run and hide behind arabic. I do not speak arabic. Why then cant your translators translate an exact mirror copy of the arabic quran. What is the problem then. Are these translators guilty of bidah. Please dont make me laugh. Why didnt the islamic authority withdraw all the english versions if they are so factually incorrect?. You cant explain it now you wanna claim arabic. What a joke. Are the english versions accepted by islam. Yes or No.. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 5:40pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
Binb: Oh no not so quick muslim. Your own prophet in fact took these verses literally and not metaphorically. Even if you read the versions of the quran I have quoted you can clearly see. Yusuf Ali says HE FOUND the sun setting.... Sher Ali has seen this blunder and try to correct it by changing his verse to state... AS IF.. Why didnt Sher Ali translate it exactly the same from your so called one arabic quran. Even the following hadiths clearly shows that muhammad himself understood it as literal.. “Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad’s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him: ‘Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sun sets?’ He answered; ‘God and His apostle know better.’ Muhammad said: ‘It sets in a spring of slimy water’” – al-Zamakhshari, The Kahshaf (3rd Edition, Vol. 2, p. 743, 1987) [1] Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 —Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. Even your tafsir is in agreement. Shall I quite them for you? And you muslims so boldly claim allah knows best. How laughable indeed |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 10:04pm On Apr 11, 2017 |
so what exactly is your point? what has all those things you pisted got to do with preservation of the Qur'an? I have proved to you that the Qur'an was well preserved hence we have only one Qur'an unlike bible that has multiple versions with plenty of differences. I rest my case |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 6:12am On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: Not so quick to rest yor case muslim. Youve proven nothing at all. All youve managed was denial. You didnt even address why Masuds copy of the quran wasnt used even though muhammad himself approved him as very credible. You couldnt prove that even your arabic quran was the so called original one. I have proven that it was altered and tampered with by Uthman before its compilation. I have proven that something is very wrong even with your current arabic quran. Why can islamic scholars and translators get it so wrong. They translate from the same so called arabic quran yet they get differences from it. Keep wishing that your eaten and crapped out quran is untouched. Shame poor muslim is in so much denial. You claim you have ONE arabic quran but history and your own literature clearly shows you had quite a bunch of qurans that Uthman burned. And NO muslim they were not burned because they differed in dialect only, they actually differed tremendously. So what have you proven. Absolutely nothing but wishful thinking. Your own Caliph burned allahs quran to hide the fact that they differed. No use sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich and hope for the best. Laugh myself silly. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 6:15am On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: Why didnt the islamic authority withdraw all the english versions if they are so factually incorrect?. You cant explain it now you wanna claim arabic. What a joke. Are the english versions accepted by islam. Yes or No.. Still waiting on this answer muslim  ?1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 10:07am On Apr 12, 2017 |
Murtadd4Christ:\ There is no need to withdraw all the translations because we have the original Qur'an in Arabic any error in any translation can easily be detected by referring to the Original. For your information the Qur'an has been translated into so many languages, Hausa,, French, Yoruba Urdu etc but no Muslim regard this as original Qur'an, For religious purposes e.g five daily prayers, Hajj etc Muslims are supposed to use the Arabic Qur'an. Millions of Muslims who do not understand Arabic still learn how to recite Qur'an in Arabic in order to perform their Religious obligations. The Qur'an was revealed by Allah in Arabic and it is perfect, however translations were done by human beings and they may contain errors depending on the knowledge, understanding, motive and other attributes of the author involved. For instance there is an English translation of the Qur'an by a Christian (George Sale) so are you saying muslims should accept whatever is written there as Qur'an? |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 10:55am On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: I am laughing myself wet. Let me see, you claim only your arabic quran is the so called untouched book but yet you have no problem with the english versions that clearly contradicts your claim. Oh my goodnes muslim. Again I have proven that your claim that the arabic quran is so untouched is a fallacy and you did nothing to counter that. All you made was an unsubstantiated claim. Youre really a joke and a bad representation of islam. Youre in denial muslim. Imagine this, we have an original untouched quran in arabic but we have no problem with the contradicting english qurans. Wakakakak wakakakaka. Only a muslim will have such a thinking. Islam really robs the brains of commonsense 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 11:46am On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: Need I say anything more. Notice that all evidence provided comes from islamic sources itself. Not from the so called islamophobes. Islam is based on a lie and so much denial. Ibn Umar al–Khattab: "Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Qur’an for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Qur’an has been lost, thus let him say, ‘I have acquired of it what is available" Suyuti, "The Itqan", part 3, p. 72 Ibn Kathir: "’Uthman burned the rest of the copies which were in the hands of the people because they disagreed on the (correct) reading and they fought among themselves. When they came to take ibn Mas’ud’s copy to bum it, he told them, ‘I know more than Zayd ibn Thabit (whom ’Uthman ordered to collect the copies of the Qur’an).’ ’Uthman wrote to ibn Mas’ud asking him to submit his copy for burning." 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 1:01pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
You are just going round in circle, simply bring another version of the Qur'an (like we have multiple versions of the Bible) or forever keep quiet! |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 2:07pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: Believe what you want muslim. I have made my case and all you claim is denial. Your qurans were burnt to hide the real truth. You did not even address or rebut ONE of my allegations. Youre simply in denial. If you wish to find comfort in your denilal, so be it muslim. Poor thing, I even had you admittung that your engkish qurans are questionabke yet you still find solice in them. Youre a big joke muslim. I have proven over and over again your so called quran was eaten by a sheep, altered by Uthman and just not accurate. Allah simply failed to protect his quran. You have not even attempted to rebut my allegatiins and proof. Denial simply is jo defence. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Nobody: 2:59pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
Read my earlier posts again I have addressed all the issues you raised its you that is in denial Lets do a small summary: 1) Multiple version of bibles, e.g. King James Version has 66 books, Catholic version has 73 books, Revised Standard Books has some verses expunged, Jehovah Witness has their own etc 2) There is only one Qur'an with 144 Surahs (No Revised standard Version). 3) If you deny the above, bring another version of the Qur'an (like we have multiple versions of the Bible) or forever keep quiet! I will not reply you on this thread again unless you can convincingly address the above three issues |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 3:28pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: As usual in denial. Can you please tell us whats the difference of all the so called versions of the bible. Go back a few posts I have fully and comprehensively addressed the issue with the difference between the 7 missing books in the protestant bible vs the catholic bible. Thats already addressed. Im waiting for you to bring the so called differences in the bibles. The Jehovahs bible is not recognised by mainstream christianity anyway as it does not have any credibility or historical references beyond the 1800's. Now back to the quran. I ask again, why did Masud not listen to caliph Uthman to burn his version of the quran? Uthman and Masud were in the same clan or vicinity therefore their dialects would have been the same. So that indicate that your quran had major errors and differences. You keep on claiming you have ONE quran but this ONE quran in itself is a false quran. This so called one quran was already screwed from the onset. So even if you have the so called ONE quran its already in error. So keep denying muslim. What have you addressed again |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 3:42pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
Binb: The muslim denial of their false quran.. A manuscript analysis of the Qur’an does present us with unique problems not encountered with the Bible. While we can find multiple manuscripts for the Bible written 700-900 years earlier, at a time when durable paper was not even used, the manuscripts for the Qur’an within the century in which it was purported to have been compiled, the seventh century, simply do not exist. Prior to 750 A.D. (thus for 100 years after Muhammad’s death) we have no verifiable Muslim documents which can give us a window into this formative period of Islam 1 . In fact the primary sources which we possess are from 150-300 years after the events which they describe, and therefore are quite distant from those events 2 . For that reason they are, for all practical purposes, secondary sources, as they rely on other material, much of which no longer exists. We simply do not have any “account from the Islamic’ community during the [initial] 150 years or so, between the first Arab conquests [the early 7th century] and the appearance, with the sira-maghazi narratives, of the earliest Islamic literature” [the late 8th century] 3 . We should expect to find, in those intervening 150 years, at least remnants of evidence for the development of the old Arab religion towards Islam (i.e. Muslim traditions); yet we find nothing 4 . The documentary evidence at our disposal, prior to 750 A.D. “consists almost entirely of rather dubious citations in later compilations” 5 . Consequently, we have no reliable proof that the later Muslim traditions speak truly of the life of Muhammad, or even of the Qur’an 6 . In fact we have absolutely no evidence for the original Qur’anic text 7 . Nor do we have any of the alleged four copies which were made of this recension and sent to Mecca, Medina, Basra and Damascus 8 . Even if these copies had somehow disintegrated with age (as some Muslims now allege), there would surely be some fragments of the documents which we could refer to. By the end of the seventh century Islam had expanded from Spain in the west to India in the east. The Qur’an (according to tradition) was the centrepiece of their faith. Certainly within that enormous sphere of influence there would be some Qur’anic documents or manuscripts which still exist till this day. Yet, there is nothing anywhere from that period at all. With the enormous number of manuscripts available for the Christian scriptures, all compiled long before the time Muhammad was born, it is incredible that Islam cannot provide a single corroborated manuscript of their most holy book from even within a century of their founder’s birth. |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by Murtadd4Christ: 3:46pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
More proof that the muslim claim about their so called ONE preserved quran is a pipe dream In response, Muslims contend that they do have a number of these “Uthmanic recensions,” these original copies from the seventh century, still in their possession. There are two documents which do hold some credibility, and to which many Muslims refer. These are the Samarkand Manuscript , which is located in the Tashkent library, Uzbekistan (in the southern part of the former Soviet Union), and the Topkapi Manuscript , which can be found in the Topkapi Museum, in Istanbul, Turkey. These two documents are indeed old, and there has been ample etymological analysis done on them by scriptologists, as well as experts in Arabic calligraphy to warrant their discussion. What most Muslims do not realize is that these two manuscripts are written in the Kufic Script, a script which according to modern Qur’anic manuscript experts, such as Martin Lings and Yasin Hamid Safadi, did not appear until late into the eighth century, and was not in use at all in Mecca and Medina in the seventh century 9 . The reasons for this are quite simple. Consider: The Kufic script, properly known as al-Khatt al-Kufi , derives its name from the city of Kufa in Iraq 10 . It would be rather odd for this script to have been adopted as the official script for the “mother of all books” as it is a script which had its origins in a city that had only been conquered by the Arabs a mere 10-14 years earlier. It is important to note that the city of Kufa , which is in present day Iraq, was a city which would have been Sassanid or Persian before that time (637-8 A.D.). Thus, while Arabic would have been known there, it would not have been the predominant language, let alone the predominant script until much later. We know in fact, that the Kufic script reached its perfection during the late eighth century (up to one hundred and fifty years after Muhammad’s death) and thereafter it became widely used throughout the Muslim world 11 . This makes sense, since after 750 A.D. the Abbasids controlled Islam, and due to their Persian background were headquartered in the Kufa and Baghdad areas. They would thus have wanted their script to dominate. Having been themselves dominated by the Umayyads (who were based in Damascus) for around 100 years, it would now be quite understandable that an Arabic script which originated in their area of influence, such as the Kufic script would evolve into that which we find in these two documents mentioned here. Therefore, it stands to reason that both the Topkapi and Samarkand Manuscripts, because they are written in the Kufic script, could not have been written earlier than 150 years after the Uthmanic Recension was supposedly compiled; at the earliest the late 700s or early 800s 12 . We do know that there were two earlier Arabic scripts which most modern Muslims are not familiar with. These are the al-Ma’il Script, developed in the Hijaz , particularly in Mecca and Medina, and the Mashq Script, also developed in Medina 13 . The al-Ma’il Script came into use in the seventh century and is easily identified, as it was written at a slight angle 14 . In fact the word al-Ma’il means “slanting.” This script survived for about two centuries before falling into disuse. The Mashq Script also began in the seventh century, but continued to be used for many centuries. It is more horizontal in form and can be distinguished by its somewhat cursive and leisurely style 15 . There are those who believe that the Mashq script was a forerunner to the later Kufic script, as there are similarities between the two. If the Qur’an had been compiled at this time in the seventh century, then one would expect it to have been written in either the Ma’il or Mashq script. Interestingly, we do have a Qur’an written in the Ma’il script, and considered to be the earliest Qur’an in our possession today. Yet it is not found in either Istanbul or Tashkent, but, ironically, it resides in the British Museum in London 16 . It has been dated towards the end of the eighth century (790 A.D.) by Martin Lings, the former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, who is himself, a practising Muslim. Therefore, with the help of script analysis, we are quite certain that there is no known manuscript of the Qur’an which we possess today which can be dated from the seventh century 17 . Furthermore, virtually all the earliest Qur’anic manuscript fragments which we do possess cannot be dated earlier than 100 years after the time of Muhammad. In her book Calligraphy and Islamic Culture, Annemarie Schimmel underlines this point when she states that apart from the recently discovered [Korans] in Sanaa, “the earliest datable fragments go back to the first quarter of the eighth century.” 18 From the evidence we possess, therefore, it would seem improbable that any portions of the Qur’an supposedly copied out at Uthman’s direction have survived. What we are left with is the intervening 150 years for which we cannot account. 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by jom28gy(m): 9:42am On Dec 17, 2017 |
If he is not God,who then is he? |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by chubbyswit(m): 10:20am On Dec 17, 2017 |
All muslims should be sued for calling mohammed the best of mankind |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by SIMEONMPEE(m): 11:52am On Mar 28, 2018 |
scoanonline: SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! SCAM !!! |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by andyanders: 8:41pm On Apr 04, 2018 |
Looking at the two pictures, who is healthy and also who look like someone mad? In fact the so called Islamic teacher should hide his face and face his religion of violence. Since he watches Emmanuel Tv, one day, he will fall down under anointing and start confessing that Jesus is the Lord. 1 Like |
| Re: Hussaini Mabera Takes TB Joshua To Court For Calling Jesus God by ForumNL(m): 1:59pm On Sep 11, 2022 |
Wow! Jesus Is God Hallelujah Christians are waking up |
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