DeepSight:


I am sorry, but this is frankly meaningless.

You are yet to answer the conundrum of purpose and motivation.

If its all virtual reality, then what is its purpose? See the question on purpose I raised here –

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-375644.0.html

Here's what you wrote about purpose in that link:

This is because the best postulations till date concerning the reasons for a need for anything to develop into its current form centers around a need; i:e: a need for survival, or self defence. . .these needs of course form the core plank for natural selection, as the need for survival, for example, will lead to the development of features suited to survival and the extinction of species unable to develop such features as against the flourishing of species able to develop the needed features.

Why should your earthly, Darwinist rendition of 'purpose' be the same employed by Ultimate Reality? I'm really not sure we are anywhere near seeing, much less defining a ''purpose'' for this vast reality, in our earthbound, human state. BUT, we can glean from the accounts of NDEs and other paranormal sources, that an Ultimate Purpose does exist. I suspect the nearer we get to Ultimate Consciousness (perhaps following several incarnations), the more we realize the 'purpose'.

You stated very clearly that it’s all a game: In reaction to that I wondered what sort of game a supreme deity would be enjoying by expressing himself through starvation of children, for example.

It makes far more sense to think that human spirits are within a process of spiritual development, hence all the trials and tribulations in the world; and not that it’s a macabre game being played by some whimsical and careless deity?

The two positions are not incompatible. However, (and my views may have changed slightly on this since 2009), the notion of souls undergoing spiritual development seems fraught with problems, as it suggests a deficiency in the Supreme Intelligence. A deficiency in Infinite Consciousness. Nowadays, I'm not prepared to jettison the notion of Ultimate Perfection on the basis of souls supposedly 'needing' development. Nevertheless, it could also be that the concept of 'Perfection' does not necessarily imply that one has everything one needs. 'Perfection' could also incorporate the compulsion to keep 'expanding'. So while 'game' might not be the best description for the process we're in, it must not be mistaken for a frivolous exercise.

Finally you are yet to respond to what I laid out here:

And philosophically, it must collapse; for its suggestion, I hope you realize, is that the only purpose of creation was the formation of evil.

This is the direct implication of your surmise: because creation involved bringing into existence “individualized” parts of consciousness – thus “separating” infinite consciousness into parts. You yourself stated that “separation” is the basis of evil, whereas “oneness” is the basis of good.

Thus, if God wanted all things to be good, then he would never have created any “individuals.” All would have remained one, indivisible great oneness.

I hope you can see that your surmise leads irrevocably to the conclusion that creation was only done for the purpose of introducing “divisions” and thereby evil.

On this ground, your summation must fail in its entirety.


Any takers?

On the highlighted, are you really trying to say that the 'division' has brought nothing else but evil? Surely not!! Our lives have also been enriched by various experiences which do not fall strictly under 'good' or 'evil' categories. I'd say the majority of our experiences fall into those 'grey areas'. There's immense value in those 'grey areas'. But without evil (caused by freewill), you couldn't get them. So, 'evil' is a necessary evil.

Deepsight... you still there?

^^^ Yes. Happy New Year Bro. Whats up?

^^ Happy New Year.

^^^ Here's wishing you the best of GOD's BOUNTIFUL BLESSINGS IN 2015 and always: and the reward of GOD's SPIRITUAL INSIGHT.
Amin.

DeepSight:

^^^ Here's wishing you the best of GOD's BOUNTIFUL BLESSINGS IN 2015 and always: and the reward of GOD's SPIRITUAL INSIGHT.
Amin.

Still waiting to hear from you

This thread reminds of Job and his friends. It is awesome to read of the manifestation of the powers of reasoning that has been bestowed upon the op, the contributors and whoever took the pain to read and ponder.
May it come to an enlightening end.

.

This sort of thread can never hit feont page. Africa and naivety are bonded.

Interesting!!!
Rossike great discussion here!
The spambot hid my first post of this long article and banned me...hope I get lucky this time around.

I think the answer to the riddle of life is CONSCIOUSNESS.
It is the mind of man that creates and modifies reality.
That the mind of man is made up of different level/sections has been a major breakthrough for modern science.
I believe this was what was represented by the ancient trinities- Osiris, Horus and Isis.
The subconscious mind, the self-conscious mind and the super-conscious mind.
The subconscious mind has been discovered to be the powerhouse and administrator of the body and mechanism of man's behaviour and daily interactions. However it was found to be unable to "reason"...it functions more like a perfectly programmed computer. The primary function of the subconscious mind is memory. This last statement is FULL OF MEANING.

The self-conscious mind is the initiator and director of the subconscious mind. This is also called WAKING consciousness.
This is the part of your mind you use to run your daily life, read this post and interact with other human beings.
The self-conscious mind cannot run the affairs of the body the way the subconscious mind does it.
Automatic regulation of blood sugar, body temperature, digestion, elimination of body wastes etc. are beyond the abilities of the self-conscious mind.
But the POWER of the self-conscious mind is SUGGESTION and INITIATION. It has COMPLETE MASTERY over the subconscious mind.
But this mastery is not easy to exercise...or rather not too many people know how to exercise it consciously.
The key is simply FAITH or BELIEF.
Anything accepted at the self-conscious level is COMPLETELY received as truth and reality without discrimination by the subconscious mind.
This is the basis of hypnosis, magic and other esoteric practices. Ancient mystics stumbled upon the reality modification abilities of the subconscious mind ages ago.
Infact the subconscious mind can be said to be the BUILDER OF PHYSICAL REALITY. Your body and external environments are ALL CREATIONS of your subconscious mind. They are ALL IDEAS or THOUGHTS manifested as 3D physical images in YOUR MIND.

Normally, a barrier exists between the subconscious mind and the self-conscious. Attempts to break this barrier lead to psychotic situations and mental problems. The NORMAL domain of operation of NORMAL people is at the self conscious level. Below that level, reality becomes something else and a disconnect AUTOMATICALLY happens with other levels of mind.
This barrier is variously called called REASON, LOGIC or the voice in your head. This filters input both ways to ensure your subconscious mind is not triggered into changing your perception of physical reality.
If you completely believe you can do something, you notice you entire being is somehow filled with energy/ability to START carrying it out.
During life threatening crises, when this barrier is temporarily disabled...people have discovered they could run kilometers without getting tired,lift extra ordinary weights, perform unthinkable feats! When they COME BACK TO THEIR senses...the ability vanishes.


Infact the subconscious mind has a frightening ability...the power of perfect deductions from a premise.
This is why one should be careful of what one reads, watches or believes.
Given a premise...whether TRUE of FALSE...the subconscious mind will break it down into a perfect sequence of deductions and proceed to wire the psyche and hormone system to correspond to that conclusion. This conclusion is stored as MEMORY which is loaded like a computer program and executed perfectly when the trigger is set.
The moment you accept anything as TRUE at the self conscious level, your subconscious mind GETS TO WORK in your body, psyche and external world to MAKE IT A REALITY. Remember that your external world is basically a projection of your subconscious mind.
What the self-conscious mind actually does is to PROGRAM the subconscious mind and reset the EMBEDDED or ACQUIRED MEMORY.
The art of doing this has been called magic, sorcery, witchcraft etc. It can be both good and evil.
Phobias and irrational behaviours are mostly traced to childhood experiences or events that were not completely understood...but
were interpreted by the person involved in ways that engendered fear,loathing and anxiety.
Whatever was the final conclusion, the subconscious mind accepts and makes the person react in a manner matching its deduction.
Even after the memory of the event has been forgotten at the self conscious level.


The power/force/energy the subconscious mind uses for its formidable activities is derived from the superconscious mind.
Both the self conscious mind and subsconscious mind depend on the superconscious mind for the energy/force/power to function.
Infact it could be said that this is the domain of the "God" in man. This is what makes man divine. Because this part of his mind
is both supernatural and transcendental...setting man above all other "lower" creatures.

This higher mind has been discovered by several peoples of all civilizations.
The Yorubas call it Eleda. The Igbos call it chi. The Westerners call it Higher Mind/Higher Self.
Some experience it as angels/guardian angels.
In ordinary humans, the super-conscious mind is not accessible directly to the self conscious mind.
It is the goal of spiritual practices to CONTACT and INFLUENCE this part of man's make up.
It is this conscious inability to directly contact his higher mind that the Abrahamic religions called the "fall from grace".
Because at the super conscious level, reality takes an entirely different form. Some experience it as vibrations, colors, sounds, profound
peace, unspeakable love etc.

The self conscious mind cannot withstand the level of the superconscious mind. It will not just make any sense...both the rate and phase of manifestation will disintegrate or cause the self-conscious mind to function differently.
But the subconscious mind can directly access and work with energies/forces at the super level.
It does this naturally and automatically. It is the AGENCY whereby the PRINCIPLES/IDEAS at the causal level
are manifested as objective reality at self-conscious levels.

Connection with his higher mind is the goal of all genuine spiritual practices.
It is ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS EFFORTLESSLY. It IS the "MIND OF GOD". And we are all a part of IT.
Infact unification of all 3 part of man's mind is the ultimate goal.

Symbolically, the subconscious mind is FEMININE, selfconscious is MASCULINE while the superconscious mind is ANDROGYNOUS.
A great secret of most religions is that the gods are ACTUALLY ANDROGYNOUS! Yes both MALE AND FEMALE.
A reference from one of our African religions would do. Obatala and the other orishas each have different manifestations or "paths".
Each path of say Ogun...can be feminine or masculine. Or even both at the same time!
Like Esu is actually androgynous in almost all manifestations.
Any sufficiently versed Ifa or Orisha practioner would know about this.
Because when they contacted that part of the mind...they experienced it as a fusion of the lower and middle minds.
Infact the deities when revealed to initiates are always presented as goddesses and/or feminine.
Cos the power employed in ALL religions is accessed and manipulated through the agency of the subconscious mind
which has a feminine manifestation. Now thats a real occult statement.

How does the above apply to the discussion?
(1) It has been discovered by modern psychologists like Carl Jung that the subconscious part of man's mind is NOT LOCAL.
It is UNIVERSAL. That means the part of your mind that receives and interpretes the electrical signals your 5 senses receives is a SINGLE MIND shared by all living things! Now that may or may not be frightening!
There exists in you, a link with every other person who has ever lived or will ever live. Right now, you are just a point on the surface of that MIND!
The particular reality you are experiencing are just the electrical signals that hit your OWN point of that surface.
In simpler WORDS...you are not the ONE EXPERIENCING THE REALITY you think you are experiencing.
You are NOT THE DOER of the actions you(your selfconscious) think you are doing.
You are NOT THE SEER of the external phenomena you(your selfconscious) think you are seeing.
Someone...God...Universal Intelligence...is experiencing REALITY...through you!
Crazy huh? Methinks too. But that is what the FABRIC of our physical reality is.

(2) Your mind creates PHYSICAL REALITY
And the amazing thing is...you can actually modify this stream of electrical signals to CREATE whatever REALITY you feel like.
Its ALL IN YOUR MIND!
Knowledge of and ability to do this has been the preserve of the secret societies of man over the ages.
So...God or whatever you call IT/HIM...is the only REALITY out there or elsewhere.
There really are no mountains,rivers,suns or objective reality...as we know it..out there.
What ever you think you can see, touch, feel, smell or hear...are the PRODUCTS of your five senses.
These five senses process DIFFERENT ELECTRICAL SIGNALS.
These electrical signals were represented in symbolic form by the ancient esoteric societies of all peoples...as the FIVE ELEMENTS.
Fire...Sight...Eyes
Air....Feeling/Touch...Skin
Water...Taste...Tongue
Earth...Smell...Nose
Ether...Sound...Ears

In today's terms...these are MAGICAL POWERS. That is literal. Because by the time you study quantum physics and have a glimpse into
the AWESOME power of the mind to present what appears to be EMPTY SPACE to your mind as solid 3D objects...it is nothing
short of magic!
Because believe it or not...your entire PHYSICAL REALITY is made of these different
electrical signals. And your subconscious mind processes these signals concurrently and perfectly and creates an IMAGE OF WHATEVER
SIGNAL your five senses has received in YOUR MIND...and then you EXPERIENCE IT.
This REALITY is what the Hindus call MAYA...and indeed it is NOT REAL in any way.
It's an illusion of the MIND.

The great secrets(actually facts) of NATURE discovered by spiritual seekers are as follows:
Note that by "spiritual" I mean those who investigate NATURE and her laws...not sky daddy followers.

1. The existence of the THREE MINDS in man.

2. The discovery and classification of the 5 elements that make up physical reality. Even more important
is the ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of what these 5 elements are.

3. The universal nature of subconsciouness and superconsciousness. This is a BIG ONE and methinks is the answer to the OP's quest.

4. The ability to manipulate emotions and belief to influence the subconscious mind. This in turn manipulates reality.This is "magic" proper.

6. The relationship between the ductless glands, hormones, nervous systems, plexuses in the body TO the THREE MINDS.

7.Symbology...the discovery that the subconscious mind "thinks" in terms of pictures and symbols. All the so-called "Illuminati" symbols you are seeing mean nothing to your self-conscious mind...but your subconscious mind can and does read it the way you are reading these words...without you being aware of it. And it will respond appropriately to the message, command or instruction....without you being aware of it.

8.The ability to manipulate the electro-magnetic properties of light and "matter" to contact and influence the super conscious mind.
Infact it could be said that everything out there is light...or technically light vibrating at different frequencies.
This is the reason for the usage of blood in rites and rituals by so many religions the world over.
The "life" or soul of man...which is the electricity that runs your physical and mental body is in the blood.
All religions discovered this. This blood is actually not liquid in the way we understand it.
It could be charged and discharged. It can take on the nature of any of the 5 elements. Modern study of biochemistry or bio-electricity is unravelling some of these interesting facts.

9. The great discovery of the MEMORY OF NATURE. That the subconscious mind is the STOREHOUSE of universal images.
If you could take out time to actually investigate how "see" a cup on the table, you would understand that what you are
"seeing" is an image stored in the UNIVERSAL SUBCONSCIOUS mind accessed through your connection to it.
This is the only reason why you and the people around you can both see the same cup, having the same color and shape
at the same time.
What your "eyes" see is just an electrical signal...of the type called "FIRE". This is passed through your optic nerves to a particular
part of your brain...which looks for the corresponding image stored in ITS MEMORY...or more accurately the particular SIZE of universal memory accessible to it. It loads this memory into your selfconscious mind...and then you see! Call it crazy...but that is the actual mechanism.
By now you should be amazed at the conclusion that if is there is no corresponding MEMORY to map the incoming electrical signals hitting your optic nerves...you do not see! Right now around you are REAL phenomena of things, entities that you cannot see...but some people can.
You are driven by sensation...which runs on the UNIVERSAL MEMORY OF NATURE.

Infact your subconscious mind processes many signals per second beyond the narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum
that you are naturally attuned to. If the vibrational frequency of your mind were to be raised...your subconscious mind will have access to a greater part of the MEMORY OF NATURE...and then you will be able to see things and hear things that others would not be able to.
This is natural phenomenon...equivalent to your mind being able to process signals from a wider band of the electromagnetic spectrum.
"Things" would take on a different meaning at this stage.
Infact recent discoveries are showing that this phenomenon can be directly traced to the secretion of certain hormones into the blood stream by certain endocrine glands. This activates certain dormant areas of the brain/self-conscious mind.
How to trigger and maintain these secretions, the type of foods to take to trigger it, how to do it in a balanced manner....has been the secret of initiates over the ages.


When these things are better known, what we now term mysterious and spiritual...will be understood to be just natural phenomena.
Just like the way our ancestors 500 years ago will be astonished at seeing people in a TV set or using a phone to make calls.
If I had written the above publicly say like in the old days...the penalty would have been death...and I concur with good reason.
Cos men naturally go funny when entrusted with "power".
Cos all the above was the exclusive preserve of initiates and even so till today. But thank "God" for the free human spirit which cannot be shackled by ignorance or fear.

Ok that's it. Many apologies for the long epistle.
Feel free to correct and disagree.
I have ofcourse added my own seasoning and salt to stuff I read up over the years.
I'm also learning and do not know it all.

Thanks to whichever mod unblocked my post
Was a lot of keystrokes to waste....

PabloAfricanus:
Interesting!!!
Rossike great discussion here!

cc Rossike

I am currently reading this book (i.e. Sapiens - A Brief History of Mankind), it's a book by Yuval Noah Harari
Yuval Noah Harari is that Hebrew professor
and leading historian who recently said he believes one day humans will be able to become "cyborgs" (i.e. part man, part machine)
and able to live forever

Sapiens - A Brief History of Mankind, is a very enthralling book but you might need to spit out bones.
The author, Yuval, made and shared similar sentiments like Rossikes
but differently when he used the Peugeout Lion logo (i.e. Stadel lion-man) to make the point, as well as, with other illustrations

I am still in the twenties page of a 400+ page book

Too much Matrix fanatics.

TheFilmmaker:
Too much Matrix fanatics.

Yuvals isnt Matrix though different to Rossikes it is a similar sentiment

TheFilmmaker:
Too much Matrix fanatics.

Same thing your ancestors would probably have said when they were told people travel on the high seas and oceans.
Same thing they probably would have said when they were told the Europeans have firearms against which their gods and goddesses
were totally powerless.
Same thing you probably would have said about TVs, telephony, aviation, satellites...had the Whites not been kind enough to make such
knowledge available to you.
Same thing you would have said about testing for blood group compatibility...and continued sacrificing to oracles and their tax collectors...
had not the Whites taken time to study genetics and biology and pass on the knowledge to you.
Same thing that kept them in total subjugation to the Whites. Same thing that made them and their descendants incompetent to
run a country handed over to them by their colonial masters.
Same thing that will make you queue up today, tomorrow and next tomorrow to bear gasoline to fuel your generator in an
oil-producing country.
Same thing that will make your state governor jet out to foreign doctors for any slight illness...and vote no confidence in local doctors.
Same thing that will make you go wow...had it been a white man that published the above in a book or documentary.
Same thing that will keep you tagging along the Whites in this generation and the 20 next to come...
Because you refuse to READ, THINK and USE YOUR MIND.
Pathetic.

PabloAfricanus:

Same thing your ancestors would probably have said when they were told people travel on the high seas and oceans.
Same thing they probably would have said when they were told the Europeans have firearms against which their gods and goddesses
were totally powerless.
Same thing you probably would have said about TVs, telephony, aviation, satellites...had the Whites not been kind enough to make such
knowledge available to you.
Same thing you would have said about testing for blood group compatibility...and continued sacrificing to oracles and their tax collectors...
had not the Whites taken time to study genetics and biology and pass on the knowledge to you.
Same thing that kept them in total subjugation to the Whites. Same thing that made them and their descendants incompetent to
run a country handed over to them by their colonial masters.
Same thing that will make you queue up today, tomorrow and next tomorrow to bear gasoline to fuel your generator in an
oil-producing country.
Same thing that will make your state governor jet out to foreign doctors for any slight illness...and vote no confidence in local doctors.
Same thing that will make you go wow...had it been a white man that published the above in a book or documentary.
Same thing that will keep you tagging along the Whites in this generation and the 20 next to come...
Because you refuse to READ, THINK and USE YOUR MIND.
Pathetic.

Wow, that was crude of you.

Please direct your vitriol elsewhere. My comment was because the op had similar sentiments like the creator of the matrix trilogy. And man, I read.

You're just too myopic to see it.

TheFilmmaker:



Wow, that was crude of you.

Please direct your vitriol elsewhere. My comment was because the op had similar sentiments like the creator of the matrix trilogy. And man, I read.

You're just too myopic to see it.

O I see. Thought you were referring to the general tone of the discussion.
Actually I did not write my last response as an insult...meant to spur you to think and quit being
intellectually lazy. Lots of us Africans think its cool to be ignorant.

I'm sure you would not find this elegant...

TheFilmmaker:
Too much Matrix fanatics.

If someone commented thus in an intellectual thread like this one.

I don't think anyone is claiming special knowledge or anything...just rubbing minds
and discussing stuff that piques one's interest.
Join the fray and contribute something...let's have a great discussion.

MuttleyLaff:

cc Rossike

I am currently reading this book (i.e. Sapiens - A Brief History of Mankind), it's a book by Yuval Noah Harari
Yuval Noah Harari is that Hebrew professor
and leading historian who recently said he believes one day humans will be able to become "cyborgs" (i.e. part man, part machine)
and able to live forever

Sapiens - A Brief History of Mankind, is a very enthralling book but you might need to spit out bones.
The author, Yuval, made and shared similar sentiments like Rossikes
but differently when he used the Peugeout Lion logo (i.e. Stadel lion-man) to make the point, as well as, with other illustrations

I am still in the twenties page of a 400+ page book

Sounds like an interesting work......I'll look into it.... Thanks MuttleyLaff

ROSSIKE:
Sounds like an interesting work......I'll look into it.... Thanks MuttleyLaff

No worries bro, am now on page 77 Chapter 5

MuttleyLaff:
No worries bro, am now on page 77 Chapter 5

Thanks for the reference...been scouting for an epub version for my iPad...just got one.
Interesting read...after a cursory read...I think he's pushing typical neo-liberal Western ideologies.
You know, the type where there are no laws or guidelines for anyone to follow.
Where "female" and "male" are now called social "gender roles"...and can be tweaked to take on any meaning.
Where "father" and "mother" will soon be classified as "roles" and not actual persons of different genders.
Where just about every surviving social and historical construct of modern society will
be subject to any form of social engineering.
Its daring...but highly subversive if you read between the lines IMO.
The conclusions he appears to be reaching can be used to justify the overthrow of any established society and its norms.
Not really a bad thing...until they cross the line...a la gay marriage, transgendering, abolition of property rights etc.
I like the parts where he compares and contrasts the social,political and gender perceptions of different societies over time.
Also, how modern society has grown to be more liberal and tolerant of opposing views.


If you're interested in similar books...check out these ones
Amir D. Aczel-God's Equation
J. Craig Venter-Life at the Speed of Light -From the Double Helix to the Dawn of Digital Life


@Rossike...I think you'll find these ones to your liking
The Ankh- African Origin of Electromagnetism by Nur Ankh Amen
Back To a Future for Mankind-BioGeometry by Ibrahim Karim

PS: If you need download links...lemme know.

PabloAfricanus:

Thanks for the reference...been scouting for an epub version for my iPad...just got one.
Interesting read...after a cursory read...I think he's pushing typical neo-liberal Western ideologies.
You know, the type where there are no laws or guidelines for anyone to follow.
Where "female" and "male" are now called social "gender roles"...and can be tweaked to take on any meaning.
Where "father" and "mother" will soon be classified as "roles" and not actual persons of different genders.
Where just about every surviving social and historical construct of modern society will be subject to any form of social engineering.
Its daring...but highly subversive if you read between the lines IMO.

Not sure you'll be able to watch this link but he touched on it (i.e. Bionic Life) in his book on page 404
- only the rich will be able afford it, the poor will be damned
https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/robot-videos/humans-set-become-cyborgs-within-165203395.html

PabloAfricanus:
The conclusions he appears to be reaching can be used to justify the overthrow of any established society and its norms.
Not really a bad thing...until they cross the line...a la gay marriage, transgendering, abolition of property rights etc.
I like the parts where he compares and contrasts the social,political and gender perceptions of different societies over time.
Also, how modern society has grown to be more liberal and tolerant of opposing views.

Yep, interesting

PabloAfricanus:
If you're interested in similar books...check out these ones
Amir D. Aczel-God's Equation
J. Craig Venter-Life at the Speed of Light -From the Double Helix to the Dawn of Digital Life

@Rossike...I think you'll find these ones to your liking
The Ankh- African Origin of Electromagnetism by Nur Ankh Amen
Back To a Future for Mankind-BioGeometry by Ibrahim Karim

PS: If you need download links...lemme know.

BioGeometry (i.e. taking advantages of energy from shapes) thats an interesting one too