To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas - Religion - Nairaland
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| To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by worlings: 9:41pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
I saw a post here stating that Christians who take people to court are not true Christians. Her reason? We are to forgive and let go. But I am going to talk about forgiveness, justice and fairness in accordance with the bible and as a lawyer too. Is it christlike to forgive? Is it Christlike to overlook a wrong? Is it Christlike to demand justice for a wrong? Is it christlike to be held accountable when we wrong others? First of all, there are offences that are simply offences. These offences are not codified as criminal or civil wrongs. And then there are offences that are criminal or civil wrongs. Not all wrongs are codified in law. In civil matters, a person can choose to not take legal action but in criminal matters, the 'state' is the one with the authority to prosecute offenders. You can forgive your murderer or rapist, but the state can choose to pursue justice and bring them to order. One of the attributes of a Christian is a 'forgiving spirit'. This means that whether the offence is codified or not, it is expected for a Christian to forgive. Now what exactly is forgiveness? It is making peace, letting go of hurt and wrong. Forgiveness is letting go of your right to retaliate when you're wronged, and it also means refusing to 'retaliate' or 'take vengeance' for a wrong done to you. Does forgiveness mean refusing justice it's duty? Now, a wrong is two ways; (a) against you only or (b) against you and against the 'laws' of the land or against the state. A person can choose to forgive a 'personal' wrong, but the state has no such obligation therefore, such wrong can be tried and taken to law. Let me cite an experience. Last year, a friend here asked me to help him follow up a matter. A 13 year old was raped by the father's brother. Let me also add that the father's brother was an assistant pastor in the church they all attended. During one of our meetings, the senior pastor kept asking the father to 'forgive' the brother and drop the matter because he was a 'Christian'. I was incensed but I did not have to do anything because the man said this and I quote, 'I will forgive him but he has to face the law so what is right is done'. I still remember the dad telling us, 'I don't think God will punish me for fighting for my daughter'. I've held onto those words for months. After my dad was shot and the perpetrators were identified, the commissioner of police then came to meet him at the hospital to discuss their findings and to convey the apologies and remorse of the suspects, my dad told him, 'I have nothing against them and I forgive them'. When the man told him what was to be done, my dad did not try to interfere. Forgiveness is for your peace and personal exorcism but I love to think that Justice is also an extension of forgiveness. And let us not confuse it with vengeance. Justice is settling for what's fair and right. One of the tenets of Christianity is justice and fairness and love. Love comes with accountability. Justice is an extension of love; to be held accountable for your actions to another and to bear the consequences thereof. In the bible, many times, the word righteousness is always accompanied with the word, Justice. In fact, the characteristics of an upright and righteous person was a desire to pursue justice. Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Micah, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Isaiah, Romans, Matthew, extolled this virtue a whole lot. Jesus was a manifestation of that desire from God. I will cite examples of the passages with 'justice & righteousness' in the comment. I still remember my dad making me memorise this verse, 'For he loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the steadfast love of God' - psalms 33:5. And he usually referred me to John 3:16. For God so love the world that he sent his son... Jesus was a succinct proof of God's desire for righteousness and Justice. What does that mean exactly? Does it mean we are no more to seek for justice for a wrong done? No. Jesus never came to exonerate or undermine justice. Jesus once addressed the Pharisees, '...woe to you, you give God all your money, the Tenth of your money but you neglect 'Justice' and the 'Love' of God...Luke 11vs42) this showed that God's major desire is to see Justice and love flow through the earth. In fact, Jesus once stated 'you wouldn't be afraid of the law and constituted authority if you do no wrong...' that was his acknowledgement that laws are there for a reason, to promote Justice and fairness and to make sure balance existed. It will be a terrible thing to exist in a place where people are simply patted on the back for their wrong done to others. Back to forgiveness, I think it is pure mischief when we insinuate that Christianity is simply closing eyes to what is wrong because that is forgiveness. Nope. Christianity does not end with sweeping things under the carpet. Christianity insists on justice, fairness and righteousness. Forgiveness does not impede fairness, accountability and justice. The parables of Jesus enthroned one thing, an accountability and consequences of our actions towards others. God was very clear when he said 'vengeance' is mine. Note this. Vengeance. Vengeance is exacting revenge for a wrong done to you. The motive is different from 'justice' and asking for 'accountability'. You can forgive a person who stole from you while also asking for a recompense and repayment of those stolen funds. You can forgive your boss for mistreating you while also asking for a reinstatement or a legal compensation for the many hours you invested in the company. A workman shall receive his compensation. You can forgive your predator while the law takes its course to push for justice and accountability. (the law here is not the 'biblical law' but rather laws made by constituted authority). Forgiveness does not deny accountability and submission to the law or constituted authority. So yes, you can offend me, and I will forgive you while also making sure you are accountable for your actions. Love operates with accountability. Forgiveness does not take away accountability. It doesn't strip you of the consequences of your actions especially if such wrong goes beyond a person e.g a wrong against the state. To me, forgiveness does not operate in denial of justice. So no, it doesn't go against the tenets of Christianity when a person is made accountable for a wrong done to another. We are not operating oblivious to constituted authority or the reliance of same on earth. If the laws says don't, you better not. As written by Barr. Enwongo Cleopas 2 Likes |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by Dezzx(m): 9:43pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
summarizes pls. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by Speed007(m): 9:45pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 10:05pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
1Corinthians 6:1 When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers! 1 Like |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 10:07pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: "Another believer" - take note |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 10:15pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
felixomor:O this defender of evil. You are here again. Who is the believer and the unbeliever? They both claim to be believers. 6:2-5 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by Judasjudas(m): 10:21pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
Well nice one ..but I'll love to add .. this men of God are Christ like ..or so de claim .. let's take for instance .. will Christ take someone to court to seel justice ? ..In doing such are u winning the soul or loosing it .? Cus the soul aim is to win souls for Christ .. so as a Man of God, how have u won that soul you are taking to court .. .. Yes the person offended u .. now imagine that fellow finally ends in jail .. and tomorrow ..u and your crew goes to the prison cell to preach to inmates . .. what will be your message ? 1 Like |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by analice107: 10:24pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2:But that lady denounced Christ, calling him names. Now am not talking about Men of God, I mean Christ. That passage you quoted doesn't hold here. She is not a believer pls. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 10:25pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: Sorry dear, a believer is not just known by "claims".... Study more! |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 10:33pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
felixomor:But that's what your men of God are. Self acclaimed believers. How about going the berean way to see if they are truly of God  Or are they above testing? |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 10:46pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
analice107: Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you John 14:15 If ye love me , keep my commandments It's either they are both believers or they are both not. 1 Like |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 10:56pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: No they are not self acclaimed, They are out there helping and binding families together while you sit behind your phone and social media typing castigations... |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 11:05pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
felixomor:Open your bible and read it for once. Your hatred for it has blinded you. This has become your case: You will rather judge God through men than bear to see God's judgement of men through His word. Shame |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by Nobody: 11:10pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
yawns** |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 11:14pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: Someone who says a believer is known by "claims" saying I should read....... * Hian * Keep judging on your social media while the people u judge are out in the field.... Hmmmm......  You think God is blind? God have mercy on your soul.. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 11:23pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
felixomor:Message lost on you. You have eyes but you can't see, you have ears but you can't hear. A mind but no impact. A brain but no understanding.
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| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 11:25pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2:Lolz And you that can "see", Please what have you seen for yourself and mankind? Mscheww |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 11:28pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
felixomor:You have been marked. Hater of truth. Hater of Christ. Defender of false teachers and lover of false peace. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 11:33pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: Even my master was called "prince of Beelzebub" So this is not new... I know u havent read this: John 16:2 , the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service........ Continue, social media judge that knows false teachers from nairaland...... May God Help you.... |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 11:45pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
...if you profess to be a Christian, from the necessity of the Spirit's work, we have a right to expect fruit from you. People like Felixomor would rather we turn the other side when a "Christian" sins and falls into error (in extension cause the downfall of many) than rebuke him. They claim Jesus is their master but produce fruits of the devil. What is even sadder is that they make up the larger percentage of those in Christendom today. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by Pastafarian: 11:48pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: interesting |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 11:50pm On Apr 04, 2017 |
An2elect2: May God help you. Please answer this question; If criminals came to your house, As a Christian will you call the police? Yes or No.... |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 12:02am On Apr 05, 2017 |
felixomor:Answer me first. Should a believer go to an unbeliever for ruling because he was insulted? |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 12:10am On Apr 05, 2017 |
An2elect2: Yes... If the person you are calling unbeliever represents the authority.. As a Christian you are supposed to respect authority. So answer my question, And Besides what are you referring to as "insult" please? |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 12:23am On Apr 05, 2017 |
felixomor: Typical. Can you scroll up and read the first Bible passages I cited. You don't disappoint at all. Back to your question. If criminals come to my house I will call the police not because I hate them or seek vengeance but it is to prevent them from harming the people around or stealing my property. And as a Christian they will be in my prayers too |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 12:34am On Apr 05, 2017 |
An2elect2: Firstly the statement bolded there is hypocrisy. Let me explain it for you You called the police who are "unbelievers" as u claim, to arrest a criminal (lets assume he also "claims" to be a believer)... The same thing you have been throwing stones for. Secondly, you called the police so that the criminals will not harm you or the people around you ba? The same reason why a pastor who is wrongly accused should report to the police and if possible go to court, because such accusation can harm him, his ministry and also the people around him.... So you see that your calling police and the pastor who sues to court is no different from each other. Yet you call them "false teachers" for reporting. Thirdly, Please I want to ask which pastor went to court because he was "insulted"? |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 1:17am On Apr 05, 2017 |
felixomor: Oh my. Tho you lack spiritual sight which is obvious , do you also lack common sense? How can you compare a criminal coming into my home with someone defaming or accusing me. Can you bring the believer/non-believer basis of setting grievances into this? No. It doesn't hold. The former may cause physical harm, but the latter, absolutely nothing if I am innocent. If someone accuses me wrongly, I would not go to court. Why because I am a better judge and have the privilege of clearing myself. All I need do is prove to everyone that I am innocent of the accusations. A servant of God accused of adultery should put his head where his heart is. Which is the church. The church is not made of stones, it is made of people with varying degrees of faith. There are many weak in the faith, you don't overthrow their faith because you need to put someone in her place. Moreso there are only two ways out of defamation. 1, The coward's way of seeking redress in court 2, The pious way. This might be old fashioned but it's the only way for anyone who has been shown mercy. You've been forgiven, forgive others too. And while at it make yourself available for scrutiny. Provide documents that implicate and let the church see that you are truly innocent. 1 Like |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by felixomor: 1:54am On Apr 05, 2017 |
An2elect2: Just look at you trying so hard to Justify your own case and make yourself look different.... In the typical "holier than thou" manner May God have mercy on your soul. You clearly dont know that in the eyes of God, That criminal you called police for and a false accuser are both sinners. There is nothing like big sin or small sin... Sin is sin You can keep arguing that, but not with God. Yet you claim you study the bible.... Secondly, And you trying to say false accusation of infidelity can not result in physical harm clearly shows you lack experience as far as marriage is concerned. You clearly dont ask for understanding when reading the bible. It is People like you that will say Paul the Apostle was a wicked false teacher, for commanding Bar Jesus to go blind when Bar Jesus was hindering his preaching.... SMH The painful part is you not only fail to understand, you also try to think that your case is an exemption when interpreting the bible. May God Help you. Honestly |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by analice107: 8:21am On Apr 05, 2017 |
An2elect2:Ok sis. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by analice107: 8:23am On Apr 05, 2017 |
felixomor:Bros, pls it rest. |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by An2elect2(f): 9:59am On Apr 05, 2017 |
analice107:Analice107 don't be like those who see black and call it white. Trust the ancient paths of our fathers in the Lord, for they are ever true. 1 Like |
| Re: To Those That Think Pastors Shouldn't Seek Justice In Court By Enwongo Cleopas by worlings: 5:59pm On Apr 05, 2017 |
Cc @lalastica |
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