YonkijiSappo:


What we wear today is simply further adaptations of that.

Which "coincidentally" looks exactly like what your neighbours wear.

Its like your brother buying a relatively unknown car called say proton and then you buy the same car three days later and claim you werent influenced by him. Thats just poppycock!

Ersan:


Exactly! Sort of what i was explaining to your friend over there. But the inspiration for the grand boubou was drawn from arabian robes.

Call it whatever you want, still wont ever change where you got it from.

you can "claim" it all you want, you can even claim to be closer to the saharan berbers who made it, but you surely have no proof that it was an inspiration of Arabian clothing.
Agbada looks nothing like Arab clothing.

This discussion is like arguing who "owns" the turban... whether Indians or Arabs or Ottomans or Persians. None can lay any exclusive claim to it in all its variations, even though the word "turban" itself has been said to be of old persian origin.

Ersan:


Dont talk to me about skill. As subjective as that topic is if you dont know what other tailors are capable of dont claim superiority on that topic.

Btw, everything from the horses gear to their robes and turban are hand made. Dont talk to me about skills.

As to embroidery, you should check the embroidery of kings and upper class people. You dont see it often because where a yoruba man has one or two agbadas for ocassions a hausa man solely wears this and heavy embroideries are expensive. Sometimes its just due to preference and comfort.

Adding sequins to a cloth is not embroidery. Did you see Obasanjo's agbada? It's mostly men in Yoruba culture that do those embroidery's and they are very very skilled.

Ersan:


Which "coincidentally" looks exactly like what your neighbours wear.

Its like your brother buying a relatively unknown car called say proton and then you buy the same car three days later and claim you werent influenced by him. Thats just poppycock!

We have various neighbors. Nupes to the north, Bariba to the north-west, Fon to the West, Mossi groups to the far north west, Edos to the East.

Which one of them wears this:



or which of them are you referring to?

YonkijiSappo:


you can "claim" it all you want, you can even claim to be closer to the saharan berbers who made it, but you surely have no proof that it was an inspiration of Arabian clothing.
Agbada looks nothing like Arab clothing.

This discussion is like arguing who "owns" the turban... whether Indians or Arabs or Ottomans or Persians. None can lay any exclusive claim to it in all its variations, even though the word "turban" itself has been said to be of old persian origin.

I have non nigerian friends and the first thing they think is arab when i show them our style of clothing. I didnt use to see it either but that coupled with historical records seem to show that it is.

The last discussion about the turban is indeed quite interesting but that is a different and is none of our business.

YonkijiSappo:


We have various neighbors. Nupes to the north, Bariba to the north-west, Fon to the West, Mossi groups to the far north west, Edos to the East.

Which one of them wears this:



or which of them are you referring to?

Again, is that how yorubas dress today?

baby124:

Adding sequins to a cloth is not embroidery. Did you see Obasanjo's agbada? It's mostly men in Yoruba culture that do those embroidery's and they are very very skilled.

Yes, im glad our tailors taught yours well.

Ersan:


I have none nigerian friends and the first thing they think is arab when i show them our style of clothing. I didnt use to see it either but that coupled with historical records seem to show that it is.

The last discussion about the turban is indeed quite interesting but that is a different and is none of our business.

It is our business, because both cases draw exactly the same parallels.
That people will associate the turban today with just the Arabs, does not mean others don't have or wear theirs.

Ersan:


Again, is that how yorubas dress today?

Of course, abi what are you talking sef. lol

YonkijiSappo:


Of course, abi what are you talking sef. lol

Then what the hell is this?

YonkijiSappo:


It is our business, because both cases draw exactly the same parallels.
That people will associate the turban today with just the Arabs, does not mean others don't have or wear theirs.

We are not arabs or persians and we sure as hell aint indians. Let them settle that amongst themselves.

Ersan:


Yes, im glad our tailors taught yours well.

Very funny joke. Till you guys have proof of seeing beautiful and complicated material like aso oke, then I will take you seriously.lmao. Aso Oke in itself is evidence of an advanced set of people.

baby124:

Very funny joke. Till you guys have proof of seeing beautiful and complicated material like aso oke, then I will take you seriously.lmao. Aso Oke in itself is evidence of an advanced set of people.

Not to forget the unique "adire".

Ersan:


Then what the hell is this?

this is what the original Hausa type rigas looked like..
lol what Hausas mostly wear today has changed as much as what the Yorubas wear has, if not more.

Old riga





Now, what the Bleep is this?

Ersan:


I have non nigerian friends and the first thing they think is arab when i show them our style of clothing. I didnt use to see it either but that coupled with historical records seem to show that it is.

The last discussion about the turban is indeed quite interesting but that is a different and is none of our business.

Agbada or Babnriga has nothing to do with Arabs. Arabs wear what a slim boubou and their royalty wear the detachable robe on top. So correct your friends next time. Agbada however is not Babanriga

Henryyy:

Not to forget the unique "adire".

Adire is the closest the north came to textiles when it comes to Yoruba's. They have their ancient dyed cloth too, so do Yoruba's.

Ersan:


Then what the hell is this?

You have successfully derailed the thread sir. The focus of this thread are the fulani women and why they replicate the Yoruba traditional bridal attire which you are yet to answer. And FYI sir what obj has on is the same as what YonkijiSappo showed you. The man is only wearing a longer sleeved buba underneath. Besides the only reason it looks different is because of the material used. "Aso-oke" is not flexible hence can't be twisted and bent easily like what obj has on.

baby124:

Adire is the closest the north came to textiles when it comes to Yoruba's. They have their ancient dyed cloth too, so do Yoruba's.

Adire is unique to us Yoruba which is why I threw that in. Pointing that we have not just the aso-oke but also the adire which is unique. U get?

Henryyy:

Adire is unique to us Yoruba which is why I threw that in. Pointing that we have not just the aso-oke but also the adire which is unique. U get?

Got it!

baby124:
Got it!

Ersan:


Again, is that how yorubas dress today?

Maybe you don't know, but we Yorubas historically had Various Agbada styles: Gbariye, (Agbada itself is one of those styles)
Agbada is the one more popular now, Gbariye was moe flared with short sleeves and went with the kembe.



Which Hausa person dresses like this?

If you point to a probable ultimate Saharan berber origin as the oldest ancestor to what is known as the Agbada today, I wouldn't be arguing with you
But trying to claim some kind of Joint Hausa-Fulani exclusive ownership or that You "gave" us Agbada as some kind of gift will surely drag this thread into the 20th page.

Ersan:

Granted you were using it before we adopted it yeah?


And we have always been using it, our afinity to that symbol is why the sardauna chose it as our emblem.

But i would love to see these pictures for research purposes. Please endeavour to attach them to your next post.

Here is a Yoruba agbada pre-1950. Notice the different multiple designs of the eternal knot. I'm sure the knot is an important symbol to the North from a cultural sense. The fact is that the eternal knot is one of the most overused symbols ever. The Chinese, Europeans, Malians, and Saharawi arabs use it. No group can claim the sole ownership of the symbol.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/77/58/24/77582495b619035066ccab9244563171.jpg

Yorubas have no stake in this whatsoever to begin with, they are not sahelian

You have to be Sahelian to have a stake? So vegetation now determines cultural affinity? There is always an outlier in any cultural relationship and Yoruba just happen to be the special case here. Yes they can have a stake if it's an integral part of their history and culture just like you. You didn't invent the style, so you are in no position to lay ownership.

So its more plausible you got something from from another region rather than your neighbours that are right above you? it may not be completely hauss likr the earlier person claimed but you without a doubt got that from us.

Even if it's from the North, the Yoruba agbada differs greatly to the Hausa babban riga in many ways. Danshiki on the other hand is more acknowledged as coming from the north. Typically, things of Hausa origin in Yoruba carries the original name like goje for example. The agbada case however is more contentious. The babban riga name did not stick.

Yorubas did not get islam from hausas but hausas are responsible for a significant amount of islamization in yoruba land. Most of your trade northwards was with us, slaves, vegetables you never heard of, and we improved your military given how you got your cavalry from us.

Not really. I won't even claim significant amount. Most of the Islamization took place from Yoruba to Yoruba after the initial contact with Islam. Some of the kings were the earliest converts, others follow suit. If Hausa were responsible for a significant islamization of Yoruba like you said and they had trade contact for centuries, then how come most Yoruba weren't Muslim by the time of the British arrival. Islamization actually took place much later around the 19th and 20th century even though the first contact with Islam go back as far as the 14th century.

Speaking of trade, most of the things that can be grown in the North can actually be grown in the South. The same can't be said vice versa. I don't know what special vegetables you are talking about other than ginger (which is also grown in Oyo state). On the other hand, kolanut (goro) which is abundant in the South is one of the major export commodity, that is highly valued by the North.

As for the calvary, Oyo adopted the calvary after the destruction of Oyo-ile by Nupes. To claim that the Yorubas got the calvary from the Hausas is a bit far fetched. Oyo learned from the Nupe attack and adopted the calvary.

But im curious, if yorubas got the danciki and babban riga from hausas, what were they wearing before that? Do you care to clue in? Maybe you dressed like the edos?

You must feel very proud. Yoruba have tons of other clothing aside from the agbada, so to ask what Yoruba were wearing before agbada is naive, so let me enlighten you a bit. Yoruba are heterogeneous and some subgroups have their own unique attires in addition to also wearing the general common attires. The people of Ondo and Ijebu have like 50 different types of clothing alone that are native to them only and typically not worn by other Yoruba groups. For example, there is a style of clothing worn by men in Ondo state that's like a drape and it's tied from the shoulder down and worn with sokoto. There are some outfits that are only worn by certain people, some are worn on special occasions or for special purposes. Aside from the regional variations, the general clothing that all Yoruba people are familiar with include buba, kembe, sulia, dangodo, gbariye, ibora, kaamu, gbaanu, Sooro, sokoto elemu, iborun, oyala, ipele, oja, gele, among others. There are also tons of hats like gobi, alagbaa, oribi, tinko, bentigoo, abeti-aja, onide, labankada, and many others. I really don't need to go into details anymore. Also, my list are just styles and components and that's excluding fabric that are used. Agbada is just one of the many clothing that exist in Yoruba culture. So there you have it.

baby124:

Very funny joke. Till you guys have proof of seeing beautiful and complicated material like aso oke, then I will take you seriously.lmao. Aso Oke in itself is evidence of an advanced set of people.

Yes you are very advanced, good for you. We see the aso oke, we've never claimed its ours, nor do we want to. Like i said, we are satisfied with what is ours. Are you?

9jakool:

Here is a Yoruba agbada pre-1950. Notice the different multiple designs of the eternal knot. I'm sure the knot is an important symbol to the North from a cultural sense. The fact is that the eternal knot is one of the most overused symbols ever. The Chinese, Europeans, Malians, and Saharawi arabs use it. No group can claim the sole ownership of the symbol.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/77/58/24/77582495b619035066ccab9244563171.jpg

Lol! As far as nigeria goes everyone knows who that symbol represents.

You have to be Sahelian to have a stake? So vegetation now determines cultural affinity? There is always an outlier in any cultural relationship and Yoruba just happen to be the special case here. Yes they can have a stake if it's an integral part of their history and culture just like you. You didn't invent the style, so you are in no position to lay ownership.

Sahelian people refers to certain ethnic groups that live and established kingdoms in and around the sahel. These ethnic groups include hausas, kanuris, fulas and tuaregs to name a few.

Even if it's from the North, the Yoruba agbada differs greatly to the Hausa babban riga in many ways. Danshiki on the other hand is more acknowledged as coming from the north. Typically, things of Hausa origin in Yoruba carries the original name like goje for example. The agbada case however is more contentious. The babban riga name did not stick.

This is all i ever wanted to hear, im glad you are able to admit it. I am not claiming cultural superiority here, like i said earlier theres nothing wrong with influencing each other, just like your women have influenced ours with the head ties.

Not really. I won't even claim significant amount. Most of the Islamization took place from Yoruba to Yoruba after the initial contact with Islam. Some of the kings were the earliest converts, others follow suit. If Hausa were responsible for a significant islamization of Yoruba like you said and they had trade contact for centuries, then how come most Yoruba weren't Muslim by the time of the British arrival. Islamization actually took place much later around the 19th and 20th century even though the first contact with Islam go back as far as the 14th century.

And i am curious as to how you think this islamization took place.

Speaking of trade, most of the things that can be grown in the North can actually be grown in the South. The same can't be said vice versa. I don't know what special vegetables you are talking about other than ginger (which is also grown in Oyo state). On the other hand, kolanut (goro) which is abundant in the South is one of the major export commodity, that is highly valued by the North.

This is indeed very true. But vegetables like onions arent originally found in the south. Its no wonder you lot call it the same thing we do, arabs call it basl, hausas call it albasa, and yorubas alubosa.(one of many words yorubas adopted hausas?

As for the calvary, Oyo adopted the calvary after the destruction of Oyo-ile by Nupes. To claim that the Yorubas got the calvary from the Hausas is a bit far fetched. Oyo learned from the Nupe attack and adopted the calvary.

And where do you think the nupes got their horses from?

You must feel very proud. Yoruba have tons of other clothing aside from the agbada, so to ask what Yoruba were wearing before agbada is naive, so let me enlighten you a bit. Yoruba are heterogeneous and some subgroups have their own unique attires in addition to also wearing the general common attires. The people of Ondo and Ijebu have like 50 different types of clothing alone that are native to them only and typically not worn by other Yoruba groups. For example, there is a style of clothing worn by men in Ondo state that's like a drape and it's tied from the shoulder down and worn with sokoto. There are some outfits that are only worn by certain people, some are worn on special occasions or for special purposes. Aside from the regional variations, the general clothing that all Yoruba people are familiar with include buba, kembe, sulia, dangodo, gbariye, ibora, kaamu, gbaanu, Sooro, sokoto elemu, iborun, oyala, ipele, oja, gele, among others. There are also tons of hats like gobi, alagbaa, oribi, tinko, bentigoo, abeti-aja, onide, labankada, and many others. I really don't need to go into details anymore. Also, my list are just styles and components and that's excluding fabric that are used. Agbada is just one of the many clothing that exist in Yoruba culture. So there you have it.

Great, i am very happy you have all these modes of dressing, again i am not denying, nor am i claiming cultural superiority. The questions remains, where did yorubas get inspiration for agbadas from?

YonkijiSappo:


Maybe you don't know, but we Yorubas historically had Various Agbada styles: Gbariye, (Agbada itself is one of those styles)
Agbada is the one more popular now, Gbariye was moe flared with short sleeves and went with the kembe.



Which Hausa person dresses like this?

If you point to a probable ultimate Saharan berber origin as the oldest ancestor to what is known as the Agbada today, I wouldn't be arguing with you
But trying to claim some kind of Joint Hausa-Fulani exclusive ownership or that You "gave" us Agbada as some kind of gift will surely drag this thread into the 20th page.

I dont get why you lot are getting salty over this. Its not very complicated, you can have one billion variations, i dont care. Question is; where did yorubas get inspiration for the agbadas they wear today?

Btw, when you use others works and give credit it can be classified as inspiration. When you dont give credit its called plagiarism and as i am sure you know thats a despicable crime.

Henryyy:

You have successfully derailed the thread sir. The focus of this thread are the fulani women and why they replicate the Yoruba traditional bridal attire which you are yet to answer. And FYI sir what obj has on is the same as what YonkijiSappo showed you. The man is only wearing a longer sleeved buba underneath. Besides the only reason it looks different is because of the material used. "Aso-oke" is not flexible hence can't be twisted and bent easily like what obj has on.

It is paramount that we protect our history and culture. The sanctity of the thread be damned, as long as everyone is learning i say who cares?

YonkijiSappo:


this is what the original Hausa type rigas looked like..
lol what Hausas mostly wear today has changed as much as what the Yorubas wear has, if not more.

Old riga





Now, what the Bleep is this?

Even today we wear multiple variations of babban riga. There are machine made and hand made embroideries like in the first and second pictures. Btw, i hope you know the second picture is a recent picture only in a rural setting?

baby124:

Agbada or Babnriga has nothing to do with Arabs. Arabs wear what a slim boubou and their royalty wear the detachable robe on top. So correct your friends next time. Agbada however is not Babanriga

I do correct them. I am strongly opposed to anything that links our culture with that of arabs. Such theories only give rise to an inferiority complex.

Ersan:


It is paramount that we protect our history and culture. The sanctity of the thread be damned, as long as everyone is learning i say who cares?

Fair enough but you care to explain why the fulanis wear the complete yoruba regalia i.e. the "buba", "iro" and the "gele" for weddings. Am definitely learning from the discussion but the question above is why i started d thread and if am not getting an answer then the point of d thread has been defeated. Am not trying to stop you from your arguments and what not but at least answer the prime question before deviating. Seems you're a fulani man yourself so you should be able to supply me with a response.

Henryyy:

Fair enough but you care to explain why the fulanis wear the complete yoruba regalia i.e. the "buba", "iro" and the "gele" for weddings. Am definitely learning from the discussion but the question above is why i started d thread and if am not getting an answer then the point of d thread has been defeated. Am not trying to stop you from your arguments and what not but at least answer the prime question before deviating. Seems you're a fulani man yourself so you should be able to supply me with a response.

Simple, because they like it and like i stated earlier, it makes an expensive statement. Its quite straight forward. And no i am not a pullo.

JackieChan01:
so you know you're breaking the rules but you went ahead?
mynd44 lalasticlala seun rule 2

Lols jackichan fighting jetleee
the movie will be interesting, let me grab my popcorn.

farouk0403:


Lols jackichan fighting jetleee
the movie will be interesting, let me grab my popcorn.

Lol! How are you sure its not the same person?