John 4:23-24 (New International Version)

23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."


For almost 1,700 years official Christianity – started by the Catholic Church but continued to this day by almost all Christian churches – have acted as if they had a monopoly on Christ. Yet what did Jesus demonstrate through his resurrection? He demonstrated that no earthly power or institution can control the Living Christ! They could kill his body, but they had no power over his Spirit.

Have you ever considered why Jesus was such a threat to the official religion of his day that they simply had to kill him? The reason was simple. The Jewish religion of the time claimed that the people's salvation could be attained only through the sacraments performed by the priesthood—meaning that the people could enter heaven ONLY by being obedient to an institution on Earth. Does this sound familiar? It should, because it is the same message that has been preached by most Christian churches since the formation of the Catholic Church in the fourth century.

Do you find it strange that the religion that claims to represent Christ on Earth became the exact same kind of religion that had Jesus killed? Do you find it peculiar that Christianity makes the exact same claim about your salvation – namely that it depends on the external religion – as the religion that saw Jesus as a threat to be eliminated?

If you do find this peculiar, it is simply because you have been brought up with a completely false view of religion and the forces that drive human history. You see, a careful look at history will reveal that there has always been a small elite whose members have been trying to control the population in order to secure power and privileges for themselves. The members of this power elite have been using all means available to them, including military power. However, the most efficient way to control the population is through ideas, including (but not limited to) religious ideas.

The stark reality is that most larger religions have not been truly religious organizations. They have been political institutions controlled by a small elite and used to give that elite special powers and privileges. As an obvious example, consider how the Catholic Church allowed the kings and noblemen of medieval Europe to hold the population in an iron grip for a thousand years—it was called "the Dark Ages."

So why was Jesus such a threat to the power-elite religion of his time? Because he preached that "The kingdom of God is within you," meaning that people's salvation did NOT depend on the hierarchy of the external religion. If the Jews had believed this message, the power elite of Jewish society would have lost their grip on the population. So their simple solution was to kill Jesus.

However, killing Jesus did not prevent the emergence of a movement of people who sought to understand and embody his teachings. And even though the Roman empire sought to kill all Christians, it eventually became clear that this simply was not possible. So a representative of the power elite, the Roman emperor Constantine I, decide that "If you can't beat-em—join'em." He turned Christianity into the official state religion of the Roman empire.

Even a quick look at Constantine will show him as a political animal, and thus his purpose was clearly to create a new religion that could control the people, unify the empire and keep himself in power. And in order to achieve this end, Jesus' true message of an individual, inner salvation has to be removed and replaced by the same old message that people's salvation depends on the sacraments controlled by the external religion.

And THAT is precisely why Christianity has stolen Christ. The power elite stole his true, inner message!

Yet there is no power on Earth that can prevent you from taking back the true teachings and the true example of Christ, so that you can discover the Kingdom and the true inner path that is right within yourself. You can then demonstrate that no earthly power can control YOUR Spirit, and this might inspire others to do the same, so that humanity can transcend the power elite. We can then help fulfill Jesus' true purpose, namely to set the people free from the elite, from the blind leaders.

source:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/E_StoleChrist/AAStoleChristMain.html

Interesting ! The conclusion is jesus was a fraud

Abu Zola:

Interesting ! The conclusion is jesus was a fraud

nope,

The true message of love, freedom and inner salvation, mind reform, forgiveness, etc replaced with mind control tactics, money motivated stewardship, fear, hate, separation, duality etc contrary to the real message

You can discover the Kingdom and the true inner path that is right within yourself. You can then demonstrate that no earthly power can control YOUR Spirit

Message of Christ is real not Fraud.

The objective here is to address the original message of Christ compared official church doctrines

If Christ were to be alive today, how many Christians of now a days will embrace his teachings at the expense of the official church doctrines. Money for hand prayer for thee, the more you give the more you get

Christ's true message of unconditional love, oneness with the father, inner reformation (being born again), awakening of the spirit, kingdom of God, humility, forgiveness

What churches are preaching mostly are things that promote fear, greediness, jealousy, hate, anger, separating men from their creator, God the father (e.g telling children of God if they don't give enough money to church, God will not be happy with them, or they will go to hell)

----this and many more shows how churches are stealing Christ from men

@ Sarmy

In light of  your post,let me get some feed back from you on the following article

The World's Sixteen
Crucified Saviors
by Kersey Graves

Rival Claims of The Saviors
It is claimed by the disciples of Jesus Christ that he was of supernatural and divine origin; that, although he was woman conceived, he was deity begotten, and molded in human form, but comprehending in essence a full measure of the infinite Godhead, thus making him half human and half divine in his sublunary origin.

It is claimed that he was full and perfect God, and perfect man; and while he was God, he was also the son of God, and as such was sent down by the father to save the fallen and guilty world; and that thus his mission pertained to the whole human race; and his inspired seers are made to declare that ultimately every nation, tongue, kindred, and people under heaven will acknowledge allegiance to his government, and concede his right to reign and rule the world; that "every knee must bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

But we do not find that this prophecy has ever been or is likely to be fulfilled.  We do not observe that this claim to the infinite deityship of Jesus Christ has been  or is likely to be universally conceded.  On the contrary, it is found that by a portion, and a large portion of the people of even those nations now called Christian, this claim has been steadily and unswervingly controverted, through the whole line of history, stretching  through the nearly two thousand years which have elapsed since his advent to earth.

Even some of those who are represented to have been personally acquainted with him - aye! some of his own brethren in the flesh, children in the same household, children of the same mother - had the temerity to question the tenableness of his claim to a divine emanation.  And when we extend our researches to other countries, we find his claim, so far from being conceded, is denied and contested by whole nations upon other grounds.  It is met and confronted by rival claims.

Upon this ground hundreds of millions of the established believers in divine revelation - hundreds of millions of believers in the divine character and origin of religion - reject the pretensions set up for Jesus Christ.  They admit both a God and a Savior, but do not accept Jesus of Nazareth as being either.  They admit a Messiah, but not 'the' Messiah; these nations contend that the title is misplaced which makes "the man Christ Jesus" the Savior of the world.  They claim to have been honored with the birth of the true Savior among them, and defend this claim upon the ground of priority of date.  They aver that the advents of their Messiahs were long prior to that of the Christians, and that this circumstance adjudicates for them a superiority of claim as to having had the true Messiah born upon their soil.

It is argued that, as the story of the incarnation of the Christians' Savior is of more recent date than those of the oriental and the ancient religions ( as is conceded by Christians themselves), the origin of the former is thus indicated and foreshadowed as being an outgrowth from, if not a plagiarism upon the latter - a borrowed copy, of which the pagan stories furnish the original.  Here, then, we observe a rivalship of claims, as to which of the remarkable personages who have figured in the world of Saviors, Messiahs, and Sons of God, in different ages and different countries, can be considered the true Savior and "sent of God;" or whether all should be, or the claims of all rejected.

For researchers in oriental history reveal the remarkable fact that stories of incarnate Gods answering to and resembling the miraculous character of Jesus Christ have been prevalent in most if not all the principal religious heathen nations of antiquity; and the accounts and narrations of some of these deific incarnations bear such a striking resemblance to that of the Christian Savior - not only in their general features, but in some cases the most minute details, from the legend of the immaculate conception to that of the crucifixion, and subsequent ascension into heaven - that one might almost be mistaken for another.

More than twenty claims of this kind - claims of being invested with divine honor (deified) - have come forward and presented themselves at the bar of the world, with their credentials, to contest the verdict of Christendom, in having proclaimed Jesus Christ, "the only son, and sent of God:" twenty Messiahs, Saviors, and Sons of God, according to history or tradition, have in past times, descended from heaven, and taken upon themselves the form of men, clothing themselves with human flesh, and furnishing incontestable evidence of a divine origin, by various miracles, marvelous works, and superlative virtues; and finally these twenty Jesus Christs (accepting their character of the name) laid the foundation for the salvation of the world, and ascended back to heaven:

     -Krishna of Hindostan
     -Buddha Sakia of India
     -Salivahana of Bermuda
     -Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and
            Orus, of Egypt
     -Odin of the Scandinavians
     -Crite of Chaldea
     -Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia
     -Baal and Taut, "the only
            Begotten of God," of Phoenicia
     -Indra of Tibet
     -Bali of Afghanistan
     -Jao of Nepal
     -Wittoba of the Bilingonese
     -Thammuz of Syria
     -Atys of Phrygia
     -Xamolxis of Thrace
     -Zoar of the Bonzes
     -Adad of Assyria
     -Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam
     -Alcides of Thebes
     -Mikado of the Sintoos
     -Beddru of Japan
     -Hesus of Eros, and Bremrillah,
             of the Druids
     -Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls
     -Cadmus of Greece
     -Hil and Feta of the Mandaites
     -Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico
     -Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
     -Ischy of the Island of Formosa
     -Divine Teacher of Plato
     -Holy One of Xaca
     -Fohi and Tien of China
     -Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece
     -Ixion and Quirnus of Rome
     -Prometheus of Caucasus
     - Mahomet, of Arabia

Yisraylite:

@ Sarmy

In light of  your post,let me get some feed back from you on the following article

Regarding rival claims of the saviours, personally, I think there could have been many masters, prophets, messengers, saviours sent over the years to may generations of mankind but I'm aware of only one Jesus Christ, and if they all claim to be Jesus Christ, but I know the true one by his message.

How do I know the true one by his message - simple, inside of Everyman is the trademark of his maker, no matter how difficult you are, there is something inside of you that can connect you back to God, when you hear the message of your maker, no matter who speaks it, you know unless you are spiritually down below and yet to evolve to that state.

I have no doubt God could have sent many prophets, servants, messengers over the years to speak His mind to mankind, the truth of the matter is that followers always turn them to semi-god when they died or change their message to suite themselves for political/power gains

@ sarmy

In the spirit of a good conversation Bro,

if they all claim to be Jesus Christ, but I know the true one by his message.

The thing is that the story of most of these so called rival saviors predated the story of Jesus with almost the exact same claims.

It is argued that, as the story of the incarnation of the Christians' Savior is of more recent date than those of the oriental and the ancient religions ( as is conceded by Christians themselves), the origin of the former is thus indicated and foreshadowed as being an outgrowth from, if not a plagiarism upon the latter - a borrowed copy, of which the pagan stories furnish the original.  Here, then, we observe a rivalship of claims, as to which of the remarkable personages who have figured in the world of Saviors, Messiahs, and Sons of God, in different ages and different countries, can be considered the true Savior and "sent of God;" or whether all should be, or the claims of all rejected.

Let's take a look at the story of Horus whose myth existed before chritianity or predated it by about 2000 years if I remember correctly

A List of the similarities between Horus and Jesus:

>Horus and the Father are one.
>Jesus says, "I and My Father are one.  He that
seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me."

>Horus is the Father seen in the Son.
>Jesus claims to be the Son in whom the Father is revealed.

>Horus was the light of the world, the light that is represented by the symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
>Jesus is made to declare that He is the light of the world.

>Horus was the way, the truth, the life by name and in person.
>Jesus is made to assert that he is the way, the truth,
and the life.

>Horus was the plant, the shoot, the natzar.
>Jesus is made to say: "I am the true vine."

>Horus says:  It is I who traverse the heaven; I go round the Sekhet-Arru (the Elysian Fields); Eternity has been assigned to me without end.  Lo!  I am heir of endless time and my attribute is eternity.
>Jesus says: " I am come down from Heaven.  For this isthe will of the Father that everyone who beholdeth the
Son and believeth in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."  (He, too, claims to be lord of eternity.)

>Horus says: " I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness."
>Jesus says: " I am come a light unto the world."

>Horus says:  I am equipped with thy words O Ra (the father in heaven) (ch.32) and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath.  (ch.38).  These were the words of the father in heaven.
>Jesus says: " The Father which sent me, he hath given
me a commandment, what I should say and what I should
speak.  Whatsoever  I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.  The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

A comparative list of some pre-existing types to Christianity shows further how these types were brought on in the canonical Gospels and the Book of Revelation:

1. Horus baptized with water by Anup = Jesus
    Baptized with water by John.

2. Anup, the Baptizer = John the Baptist.

3. Aan, a name of the divine scribe = John the
    divine scribe.

4. Horus born in Annu, the place of bread = Jesus
    born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.

5. Horus the Good Shepherd with the crook upon his
    shoulders = Jesus the Good Shepherd with the lamb or
    kid upon his shoulder.

6. The Seven on board the boat with Horus = The
    seven fishers on board the boat with Jesus.

7. Horus as the Lamb = Jesus as the Lamb.

8. Horus as the Lion = Jesus as the Lion.

9. Horus identified with the Tat or Cross = Jesus
    identified with the Cross.

10. Horus of twelve years = Jesus of twelve years.

11. Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism =
    Jesus made a man of thirty years in his baptism.

12. Horus the Krst = Jesus the Christ.

13. Horus the manifesting Son of God = Jesus the
    manifesting Son of God.

14. The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son,
    and Ra the Holy Spirit = The trinity of the Father,
    Son and Holy Spirit.

15. The first Horus as a child of the Virgin, the
    second as the Son of Ra = Jesus as the Virgins child,
    the Christ as Son of the Father.

16. Horus the sower and Set the destroyer in the
    harvesting = Jesus the sower of the good seed and
    Satan the sower of tares.

17. Horus carried off by Set to the summit of Mount
    Hetep = Jesus spirited away by Satan into an
    exceedingly high mountain.

18. Set and Horus contending on the Mount = Jesus and
    Satan contending on the Mount.

19. The Star as the announcer of the child Horus =
    The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of
    Jesus.

20. Hours the avenger = Jesus who brings the sword.

21. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, who comes with peace =
    Jesus the bringer of peace.

22. Horus the afflicted one = Jesus the afflicted one.

23. Horus as the type of life eternal = Jesus the type of
        eternal life.

24. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, the child teacher in the
    temple = The child Jesus as teacher in the temple.

25. The mummy bandage that was woven without seam
        =The vesture of Christ without a seam.

26. Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti = Twelve
    followers of Jesus as the twelve disciples.

27. The revelation written down by Aan (Tehuti) the
    scribe of divine words = The revelation by John
    the divine.

28. The saluter Aani, who bears witness to the word
    of Ra and to the testimony of Horus = John who bears
    witness to the Word of God and the testimony of
    Jesus Christ.

29. The secret of the Mysteries revealed by Taht-Aan
    = The secret of the Mysteries made known by John.

30. Horus the Morning Star = Jesus the Morning Star.

31. Horus who gives the Morning Star to his followers
    = Jesus who gives the Morning Star to his followers.

32. The name of Ra on the head of the deceased = The
    name of the Father written on the forehead.

33. The Paradise of the Pole Star-Am-Khemen = The
    Holy City lighted by one luminary, that is neither the
    Sun nor the Moon = the Pole Star.

34. The Har-Seshu, or servants of Horus = The servants
    of Jesus Christ

So what do you think ?

Yisraylite:

@ sarmy

In the spirit of a good conversation Bro,

The thing is that the story of most of these so called rival saviors predated the story of Jesus with almost the exact same claims.

Let's take a look at the story of Horus whose myth existed before chritianity or predated it by about 2000 years if I remember correctly

So what do you think ?

I do not have a closed mind regarding those claims, even the ones made by Official Christianity. However, I am more concerned about the distortion of the true message, in it there is life eternal. "He came so we can be FREE indeed" SALVATION of soul.

Even if those stories pre-dated that of Jesus, his message of redemption is far more valuable, Jesus Christ is the Word of God personified.

@ Sarmy

I do not have a closed mind regarding those claims, even the ones made by Official Christianity. However, I am more concerned about the distortion of the true message, in it there is life eternal. "He came so we can be FREE indeed" SALVATION of soul.

Even if those stories pre-dated that of Jesus, his message of redemption is far more valuable, Jesus Christ is the Word of God personified.

Bro, you're really a good guy  and I sense a spirit of humility and wisdom within you from the statements you've made thus far, I'm getting ready for an out of town trip,but YHWH willing when I get back we should talk some more, May the peace of the All Mighty Creator be upon you and guide you till we meet again!

Salamah!

That was brilliant analogy mr yisray, i just hope xtrian will come to their senses

@OP
Sarmy, brilliant original post simply brilliant. This is the message i have also been trying to communicate to christians, muslims and atheists alike on this forum. The Christian faith and belief system established by Jesus and preached by the Apostles has been majorly relegated to the background / distorted by the mordern church. The key ingredients of salvation that Jesus taught tragically are now being ignored in favor of man made scams lke compulsary tithing as a way to please God. It is so funny that most christians don't realise that the modern church is equally has guilty of the allegations Jesus made against the religious establishment of those days [Pharissees and saducees] which was the reason why they even conspired to kill him. A friend once told me that if Jesus were to come back today as an humble man like he did in his first coming it is the mordern church establishemnt that would kill him as he would be seen as a threat to the power, control and money they wield from this distorted version of christianity they teach. The passage below is still very apt today, just remove the phrase scribes and pharisee and replace it with pastors and preachers were it occurs.

Matthew 23:13-29:

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! f[/b]or ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

[b]26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Abu Zola:

Interesting ! The conclusion is jesus was a fraud

Did u go to school at all?
Cant u read what d poster ment? Hes talking claiming monopoly of Jesus by some pple.See ur meaningless post? Let intellectuals put u through in ur life,so u will not be misguided like farouk mutallab

@kunleosho- yeah, and am enjoying this, does God die ? Didn't jesus die

Abu Zola:

@kunleosho- yeah, and am enjoying this, does God die ? Didn't jesus die

Neither Jesus nor true christianity ever claimed Jesus is the God almighty. He is the son of God which also makes him a god. I hope you get the difference. However he came down to earth in human form, it was his human form that died. He then ressurected and ascended back to heaven in his glorious form. And he defintiely would be back again to take back his own.

Thanks, i think now you are being civic this days which means i won't turn a frown face to you,

is father equal to son ? Plz explain

Abu Zola:

Thanks, i think now you are being civic this days which means i won't turn a frown face to you,

is father equal to son ? Plz explain

I am ot one of those christians who claim that the father eqauls the son. Jesus made it crystal clear in the bible that the Father is greater than he is.

@KunleOshob:

Seems I finally found something we disagree about. However, the issue of faith/belief remains deeply personal and so, you are at liberty in your postulation. Only problem is, let me ask you, how many "Gods" are there in your understanding especially when we both have read "Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One God"? Notice I capitalize Gods!


@Abu_Z:

Abu Zola:

Interesting ! The conclusion is jesus was a fraud

So you can say Jesus is a "FRAUD" abi? Yet you keep saying you want peace on this section. This thread was peaceful till you entered and started the insults. Funnily enough, most Christians will not get angry but when they ascribe qualities to your Muhammad, you behave like someone being gang-ban.ged.

If you can dish it out, Abu, make sure that you can also take it.

@ Poster - Why does anybody need to know about Jesus?

Is all tat he taught not (love of fellow man) written with a silver pen indelibly in the hearts and consciences of every sincere man?

Need we know the historical Jesus at all?

@DeepSight:

Come to think of it, that is another way to look at it. Thanks Sir, for showing me another side of this issue. Maybe we should look at teachings of "MEN OF GOD" and not their history exclusively.

@Abu_Z:

What say you to this?

@Yisraylite:

I know you have more information than this at your disposal and just delight in playing devils advocate. The Web easily provides evidence that separates fact from fiction. Are you not being a bit economical with the truth? Horus, the Falcon King, a "tale by moonlight"?

Horus wasn't a man but a claim to a designed god made by a dynasty of Egyptian rulers to perpetuate themselves and mystify their subjects. Alive, you're Horus, dead, you're Osiris, his father. Then we had his "different forms" i.e.

[1] Harpocrates (Horus the child) is the son of Osiris and Isis and represents Horus as a child. He is the child that needs protection from his mother Isis against his evil uncle. He is also the child-god who protects the unborn and the young children. From the Late-Dynastic Period on, he is often represented as a unclothed child, standing on crocodiles and holding dangerous, powerful animals in his hand. He uses the tamed power of these animals against the forces of evil that threaten children
[2] Harsomtus (Horus who unites the Two Lands) is the son of Horus of Edfu and Hathor. He represents the divine kingship over a united Egypt. As son of Horus, this Horus also represents the cyclic and eternal renewal of the Egyptian monarchy. He is sometime indistinguishable from Harpocrates.
[3]  Harendotes (Horus who avenges his father) is the adult Horus who avenges the death of his father and who rightfully claims his heritage. He is Horus the warrior, who does battle against all the forces of evil, not just those threatening the newly born children of Egypt.
[4] Horus of Edfu [/b]is the form of Horus which encompasses every aspect of Horus: he is the personification of the Egyptian kingship, who has avenged his father, who in turn fathers Harsomtus, that is himself as a youth, to ensure the continuous father-son cycle. He is also the god of heavens, a solar god (see below), ,
[5] [b]Re-Harakhte (Re-Horus of the horizon) brings together the solar god Re and the god of heaven Horus. Re-Harakhte has his solar character in common with Re, but from Horus he gets his character of a youth: Re-Harakhte represents the newly born sun at sunrise.

Plus much of even the claims you ascribe to this "system of people" are bogus and came only after the fact. Almost nothing ascribed to Horus comes from documented history or sources aside of the fantastical.

Assume they were truly all people, which one of these kings were you referring to in your comparison to Jesus?

nuclearboy:

@KunleOshob:

Seems I finally found something we disagree about. However, the issue of faith/belief remains deeply personal and so, you are at liberty in your postulation. Only problem is, let me ask you, how many "Gods" are there in your understanding especially when we both have read "Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One God"? Notice I capitalize Gods!

Well i would not want to start this trinity debate here again cos it is absolutely pointless. But to answer your question, there is only one God almighty and he has son made in his exact likeness who has similar attributes to him. The bible is clear enough that Jesus is a totally seperate entity from his father, there is no point in forcing scripture to imply they are one and the same person just to be able to justify the fact that the bible preaches that there is only one God worthy of worship.

@am enjoying this

KunleOshob:

@OP
A friend once told me that if Jesus were to come back today as an humble man like he did in his first coming it is the mordern church establishment that would kill him as he would be seen as a threat to the power, control and money they wield from this distorted version of christianity they teach.
 

Thanks bro, I concur. I've seen so many in these modern day churches that I  keep wondering if Jesus were to be alive today if he would be happy with these so called church doctrines, he would probably have been killed by them

Worship of God should be love motivated, in spirit and in truth.

Deep Sight:

@ Poster - Why does anybody need to know about Jesus?

Is all tat he taught not (love of fellow man) written with a silver pen indelibly in the hearts and consciences of every sincere man?

Need we know the historical Jesus at all?

Absolutely, there is need to know about Jesus Christ and his message

He taught about love, he demonstrated it and he showed the way back to God.

His message includes spiritual identity "I and my father are one", he brought spiritual awakenings, recognition of our spiritual source and many more

The verse below gives the official biblical defnition of the christian religion, it is a shame that this definition is not complied with by 99% of churches that profess christianity. Any church that this definition does not form the core of it's doctrines and teachings cannot be said to be true christianity.

James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

However, killing Jesus did not prevent the emergence of a movement of people who sought to understand and embody his teachings. And even though the Roman empire sought to kill all Christians, it eventually became clear that this simply was not possible. So a representative of the power elite, the Roman emperor Constantine I, decide that "If you can't beat-em—join'em." He turned Christianity into the official state religion of the Roman empire.

all the time you people keep talking about copnstantine,for christ sake what wrong did this man do?

why is he so vilified ? for the record

The emperor constantine did not start the catholic church as the church has existed centuries before the reignh of this emperor.In fact the name catholic was first used to describe the church in 107CE by st ignatius of antioch.
It was never meant to be a denominational term when it was used but was meant to refer to all the christian churches across the globe.Besides one of the greatest defenders of the catholic faith ,st Ireneous of lyons lived centuries before the birth of this roman emperor.

ALso constantine did not declare christianity the state religion,that was done by emperor theodosius over 50 yrs after the death of constantine.What constantine did was just to legalise christianity,before then it was illegal to practise christianity.

Also constantine did not play any role in the canonisation of the scriptures,as the two church councils that determine that sat over 50 yrs after the death of constantine .

I ask again what did this man do wrong,? was it wrong to legalise christianity?

How come no one is talking about the bad emperors like nero and diocletan who tried to wipe out christianity,how come it is the one who legalised christianity that is being vilified?

Am beginning to notice a very interesting trend among christians these days. They getting tired of being fed with crap dogmas by church. They are beginning to question and deny the age old notion of trinity and emrace the indivisble unity of God. They are gradully beginning to see Jesus the way we muslims see him.

Me too

the_seeker:

Am beginning to notice a very interesting trend among christians these days. They getting tired of being fed with crap dogmas by church. They are beginning to question and deny the age old notion of trinity and emrace the indivisble unity of God. They are gradully beginning to see Jesus the way we muslims see him.

But their is more dogmatic crap in the Islamic religion which you profess. There is no doubt about it Jesus is Lord and the only begotten so of the Almighty God.

chukwudi44:

all the time you people keep talking about copnstantine,for christ sake what wrong did this man do?

why is he so vilified ? for the record

The emperor constantine did not start the catholic church as the church has existed centuries before the reignh of this emperor.In fact the name catholic was first used to describe the church in 107CE by st ignatius of antioch.
It was never meant to be a denominational term when it was used but was meant to refer to all the christian churches across the globe.Besides one of the greatest defenders of the catholic faith ,st Ireneous of lyons lived centuries before the birth of this roman emperor.

ALso constantine did not declare christianity the state religion,that was done by emperor theodosius over 50 yrs after the death of constantine.What constantine did was just to legalise christianity,before then it was illegal to practise christianity.

Also constantine did not play any role in the canonisation of the scriptures,as the two church councils that determine that sat over 50 yrs after the death of constantine .

I ask again what did this man do wrong,? was it wrong to legalise christianity?

How come no one is talking about the bad emperors like nero and diocletan who tried to wipe out christianity,how come it is the one who legalised christianity that is being vilified?

He did no wrong legalising christianity, or turning Christianity into the official state religion of the Roman empire, may be politicallly motivated, and if he had power to legalise christianity definitely he would be interested and he would have played a role in the canonisation of the scriptures?

the_seeker:

Am beginning to notice a very interesting trend among christians these days. They getting tired of being fed with crap dogmas by church. They are beginning to question and deny the age old notion of trinity and emrace the indivisble unity of God. They are gradully beginning to see Jesus the way we muslims see him.

There is good news in the gospel of Christ, the intention is to bring all men unto God, religion can take people away from God unknowingly "people can honour God with their month and yet their hearth very far away from Him"

There is absolutely no need for fight or attack of another in the name of God, whoever claims to know God and has no love deceives himfelf for God is love. Any group, religion, church, mosque etc, where there is no love for others, they are yet to know the true God.

Jesus demostrated this love by his death, he had compassion, forgiveness, forbearing, etc. We can follow Christ no matter our current state.


Bless you

KunleOshob:

But their is more dogmatic crap in the Islamic religion which you profess. There is no doubt about it Jesus is Lord and the only begotten so of the Almighty God.

My bro,islam is worse in dogmatism.Just 3days ago in Somalia men were jailed for shaving their beareds which contravens islamic law in Somalia.What sort of nonsense religious law is that? Its modern day slavery

He did no wrong legalising christianity, or turning Christianity into the official state religion of the Roman empire, may be politicallly motivated, and if he had power to legalise christianity definitely he would be interested and he would have played a role in the canonisation of the scriptures

young man do you know you re very funny,if you are not sure of any information don,t bother to post to avoid embvarrassing ur self.

These are historical facts and not mere specul;ations.

The emperor constantine did not declare christianity the official religion of the roman empire,his promulgation of the edict of milan was meant to legaise christianity.christianity was declared stste relgion of the roman empire by theodosius1 in 380CE almost 50 yrs after the death of constantine.

Also the two church councils which decided the christian canon (synod of hipo 393CE,council of carthage 397CE) was held more tha50 yrs after the death of constantine and it was under the authority of a great man of God st Augustine of Hipo,widely regarded as the greatest christian theologian that has ever lived on earth and one of the most influential christians in history