Pastor AIO:

There is nothing here either that says that we ought to give with expectation of receiving back. Let me break down the scriptures that you have quoted one by one.

This passage is about faith and not about giving, whether to the pastor or to anyone for that matter. Maybe it is the reward part that is confusing you. It means that if you diligently seek him then you'll find him, and finding him is the reward.

There is nothing here either about giving, to pastor or to anyone for that matter. The end result for which Jesus endured the cross is the 'joy that was set in front of him'. Nothing about giving anyone money or receiving any money back in return.

The plowing that he is talking about here is the ministry that he did amongst the corinthians. Paul didn't give them any money in the hope that he would receive money from them.

ogajim:

Though for today: He gave His all for thee, what hast thou given Him?


MY HEART AND SOUL + LOVE FOR ALL HIS CHILDREN.

Joagbaje:

@pastor AIO

I just re read your sermon, I missed out some things initially. I agree with your poin that we should not give for selfish reasons and God is concerned about our motives and attitudes in giving. Infact ,Jesus major war with the pharisees was in their motives, they give openly so as to recieve prases of men. Jesus was not against giving openly but the motive of selfishness of recieving praises of men. We should give out of love , But that does not negate the expectation that God has promised. There are times the thought giving may not be sweet maybe there are certain challenges, but The way out is to give. You do it any how, and the miracle takes place.
There is cheerful giving , But there are times the giving may not be cheerful, but driving by faith and love and the glory of the harvest.

Psalm 126:5-6
They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. [6] He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

Abraham killing his son Isaac ,Was is Cheerful?

ogajim:

Though for today: He gave His all for thee, what hast thou given Him?


MY HEART AND SOUL + LOVE FOR ALL HIS CHILDREN.

ogajim:

Kunle, Zikky,


Haven't you noticed that JoAgbaje has moved on? He seems to be here on a "mission" because the very moment you start to expose him and his Church on any thread, they simply move on and create a new one.

Na God go save us from fake preachers ooooo.

OLAADEGBU:



[16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.  [17] But whoso has this world's good,and sees his brother have need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? [18] My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. -- 1 John 3:16-18

This is the acid test of our love for all His children.  Putting our money where our mouth is.

OLAADEGBU:



[16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. [17] But whoso has this world's good, and sees his brother have need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? [18] My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. -- 1 John 3:16-18

This is the acid test of our love for all His children. Putting our money where our mouth is.

KunleOshob:

Olaadegbu i am really dissapointed in the point you are trying to pass across in the above highlighted, i actually assumed that you were a much more sincere christian than this[ a bit mis-guided perhaps] but i didn't expect this outright contrieved falsehood from you. If it was the likes of Tonye-t or Joagbaje i would not have been suprised as they are the ones known on this forum to willfully twist scripture for filthy gain. In your case i always assumed you were just misguided. The only way Jesus recommend we give to him in the bible is in matthew 25:31-40, any other recommandation is the doctrine of men. Giving to our pastors[/color] or to the church is not giving to Jesus cause he never asked us to do ss besides the bible makes it clear that God as no needs human hands can meet so please lets stop twisting scripture to prove vacant assertions.

KunleOshob:

Olaadegbu i am really dissapointed in the point you are trying to pass across in the above highlighted, i actually assumed that you were a much more sincere christian than this[ a bit mis-guided perhaps] but i didn't expect this outright contrieved falsehood from you. If it was the likes of Tonye-t or Joagbaje i would not have been suprised as they are the ones known on this forum to willfully twist scripture for filthy gain. In your case i always assumed you were just misguided. The only way Jesus recommend we give to him in the bible is in matthew 25:31-40, any other recommandation is the doctrine of men. Giving to our pastors or to the church is not giving to Jesus cause he never asked us to do ss besides the bible makes it clear that God as no needs human hands can meet so please lets stop twisting scripture to prove vacant assertions.

KunleOshob:

I believe joagbaje has toned down on his prosperity garb a bit since he joined this forum. God is touching his heart and slowly revealing the truth to him. It is just a matter of time he would soon denounce the false gospel. I only hope he would be able to look his boss in the face and tell him he has been leading them astray and taking advantage of their human greeds.

nuella2:

Didnt people give to Paul did he reject the gifts?
Philip. 4:15
Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me[/color] as concerning[b] giving[/b][color=#990000] and receiving, but ye only.
Romans 15:27
It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty[/color] is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

1 Cor. 9:11
If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

I remember people gave to Jesus, so why is it wrong to give to pastors today? Afterall its our benefit.
[Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account[color=#990000]] I do not say this to get a further gift from you, but to state facts, wanting you to bear fruit to be put to your account and rewarded in the day of Christ.

viaro:

What has OLAADEGBU said there that has warranted all these derision from you?

Joagbaje:


1 Cor. 9:25
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

To be temprate talks about sellf dicipline, If a natural man can discipline himself to stay on track how much more a christian . practice focus on the thread, I know you are only manifesting whats inside, but try hold youself for the thread sake.

James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.




Little children are you stillon ths level?
A christian is supposed the be an example of self discipline,

KunleOshob:

He tried to imply you can give to Jesus by giving to the church/pastor by twisting scriptures which say something entirely different.

KunleOshob:

It's okay if you give to your pastor to show appreciation but don't mistake that as christian giving or giving to christ.

KunleOshob:

Pastor, i would continue to remember you in my prayers and pray for the redemption of your soul so that you would truely get to know and experience Jesus. I also pray you don't continue to lead those who genuinely seek God away through your poisnous version of the gospel. I had thought you would learn a thing from the article on top of this page but apparently your heart is hardened like that of pharaoh. I hope you don't let it lead you to destruction.

KunleOshob:

Olaadegbu i am really dissapointed in the point you are trying to pass across in the above highlighted, i actually assumed that you were a much more sincere christian than this[ a bit mis-guided perhaps] but i didn't expect this outright contrieved falsehood from you. If it was the likes of Tonye-t or Joagbaje i would not have been suprised as they are the ones known on this forum to willfully twist scripture for filthy gain. In your case i always assumed you were just misguided. The only way Jesus recommend we give to him in the bible is in matthew 25:31-40, any other recommandation is the doctrine of men. Giving to our pastors or to the church is not giving to Jesus cause he never asked us to do ss besides the bible makes it clear that God as no needs human hands can meet so please lets stop twisting scripture to prove vacant assertions.

KunleOshob:

None of the scriptures you quoted above implies that giving to pastors = giving to Jesus. Even though i have not said we should not give to pastors but the focus of our christian giving should be to those genuinely in need, be it pastor or any body else. It's okay if you give to your pastor to show appreciation but don't mistake that as christian giving or giving to christ.

He tried to imply you can give to Jesus by giving to the church/pastor by twisting scriptures which say something entirely different.

nuella2:

None of the scriptures you quoted above implies that giving to pastors = giving to Jesus. Even though i have not said we should not give to pastors but the focus of our christian giving should be to those genuinely in need, be it pastor or any body else. It's okay if you give to your pastor to show appreciation but don't mistake that as christian giving or giving to christ.

Matthew 25:36
unclothed, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Matthew 25:43
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: unclothed, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Anything you give to a follower of christ, you have given to christ.

OLAADEGBU:

You just put the "foot in the mouth" by the verses you quoted in the post highlighted above.

[34] Then shall the King say to them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: [35] For I was an hungered, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: [36] unclothed, and you clothed me: I was sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see you you an hungered, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink? [38] When did we see you a stranger, and took you in? or unclothed, and clothed you? [39] Or when did we see you sick, or in prison, and came to you? [40] And the King shall answer and say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me. -- Matthew 25:34-40

As viaro and nuella2 have rightly pointed out, can you now see the correlation between what Jesus said in verse 40 and Christian giving?

viaro:

Why is giving to one's pastor different from 'Christian giving' or 'giving to Christ'?

KunleOshob:

Again you try to quote that scripture out of context, Jesus was preaching giving to the poor and the needy in that passage and not giving to his followers, so please don't twist

Bros stp trying to be dis-honest you know as much as i know that the above passage as absolutely nothing to do with giving to pastors or even christians, it was to do with giving to the poor and the needy which is what true christian giving is all about

Even thoug there are examples of people giving to the apostles in the new testament, it was never taught as christian giving. Christian giving should be what we were taught or instructed to do NOT every example of giving we fing in the bible. Giving to a pastor who is not in need is certainly not christian giving but giving to a person out of appreciation or delusion.

nuella2:

Pls give me a verse that explains christian givings. Is a pastor not a christian? Are they not part of the body of christ? Weda i christian is needy or not, when you give you have done it to christ. You dont wait until someone is needy before you give.
Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

KunleOshob:

Christian giving is strictly giving to meet the needs of those in need be it , christian, pastor, muslim or pagan. As long as they are need it is our christian obligation to help. I am sure TB. Joshua would not be asking if the people he is helping in Haiti are christians before he assists them and God would still bless him for it. If you really want to know what christian giving as taught by christ is go and read matthew 25:31-40 agian in it's proper context without forcing the pre-conceived notions you have been poisoned with into it but try and receive what christ is really trying to say there.

Even the early church collections was for the poor and needy contrary to what pastors practise today claiming church collections is for "running the church" which effectively means it is for the pastor especially in one man pentecostal churches were there is no accountablity. Another typical example of christian giving [even in church] is posted below:

Acts 4:32-35:
32 All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. 33 The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and God’s great blessing was upon them all. 34 There were no needy people among them, because those who owned land or houses would sell them 35 and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need.

Acts 2:44-46:
44 And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. 45 They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. 46 They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity

How many churches follow the examples set by the original church established by the direct apsotles of christ himself before the tainted version of christianity most churches are practising today.

KunleOshob:
Bros stp trying to be dis-honest you know as much as i know that the above passage as absolutely nothing to do with giving to pastors or even christians, it was to do with giving to the poor and the needy which is what true christian giving is all about

KunleOshob:

viaro: Why is giving to one's pastor different from 'Christian giving' or 'giving to Christ'?

Even thoug there are examples of people giving to the apostles in the new testament, it was never taught as christian giving.

KunleOshob:
Christian giving should be what we were taught or instructed to do NOT every example of giving we fing in the bible.

KunleOshob:
Giving to a pastor who is not in need is certainly not christian giving but giving to a person out of appreciation or delusion.

KunleOshob:

viaro: Why is giving to one's pastor different from 'Christian giving' or 'giving to Christ'?

Even thoug there are examples of people giving to the apostles in the new testament, it was never taught as christian giving.

Deep Sight:

Viaro/ Nuella -

What do you make of these -

1. Multi-Millionaire Christians who give gifts of luxury M. Benzs and BMWs to Pastors who already own a dizzying number of cars

2. Multi-Millionaire christians who purchase private jets as gifts for Pastors.

Might i just add that the above are not hypothetical but real-life events that have happened and continue to happen in Nigeria.

Thanks in advance.

Deep Sight:

^^^ Please indulge me: my queries needn't be tied to his.