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Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 7:12am On Aug 08, 2017 |
easymancfc: . But the Bible speaks of the wicked being tormented "forever," doesn't it? The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. (To check in a concordance, look up the word "ever." It is like the word "tall," which means something different in describing men, trees, or mountains. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See also Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this means "10 generations." In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalms 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out. The teaching of eternal torment has done more to drive people to atheism and insanity than any other invention of the devil. It is slander upon the loving character of a tender, gracious heavenly Father and has done untold harm to the Christian cause. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 7:15am On Aug 08, 2017 |
easymancfc: The Bible talks about the Second death in the Book of Revelation. Also the book of revelation talks about Hell(grave) and death been cast into the lake of fire. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 3:42pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: 1. It only mentions angels... it doesn't add those that where not faithful... by their nature... they cannot die... besides YOU HAVE ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT ATLEAST GOOD ANGELS LIVE ETERNALLY MEANING ATLEAST THE SAVED WILL ALSO LIVE ETERNALLY... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:16pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: Annihilationalism another heresy... Immortality is a gift of God... I have already answer you 1 tim 6 objection... Jesus promises that those who believe in him shall never die... (john 11:26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?)... So atleast the righteous according to your beliefs will have eternal life/immortality right? The tree of life in Genesis 3 is immortality in the sense that Man would not die the physical death... ALL MEN DIE THE PHYSICAL DEATH.... SAVED OR UNSAVED ALL THE PASSAGES IN THE PSALMS YOU TALK ABOUT EITHER REFER TO PHYSICAL DEATH PRIMARILY, ROMANS 6:23 TALKS ABOUT THE SECOND DEATH WHICH NO WHERE MENTIONS "DESTRUCTION" LASTLY... DOES DESTRUCTION ALWAYS MEAN ANNIHILATION OR OBLITERATION ?? NOT ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE... heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might DESTROY him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; WAS THE DEVIL ANNIHILATED AFTER JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION NO.... WHAT ABOUT CUT OFF?? TO CUT OFF MEANS TO CAST OUT Exodus 12:19 'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land. Leviticus 7:27 'Any person who eats any blood, even that person shall be cut off from his people.'" TO CUT OFF MEANS TO CAST OUT ALSO... NOT ONLY TO ANNIHILATE... TO BE SLAIN MEANS TO BE KILLED BODILY ALSO... NOT NECESSARILY FOR THEM TO CEASE EXISTENCE... GOOD PEOPLE WERE ALSO SLAIN.. THAT DOESNT MEAN THEY CEASE TO EXIST JESUS WAS SLAIN luke 9:22 saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be SLAIN, acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and SLAIN: acts 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be SLAIN... MARTYRS WERE ALSO SLAIN see rev 2:13, 6:9 etc SO "DESTROY", "SLAIN", "CUT OFF" DOESNT ALWAYS MEAN ANNIHILATION.. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:32pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: YEAH... THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH RIGHT... EVERYTHING BECOMING NEW RIGHT? WRONG.... Heaven and Earth will definitely be renewed but we will still be there... albeit transformed... So too will the Lake of fire still be there... HELL, HADES (DEATH) WILL BE THROWN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH WILL STILL BE THERE AFTER THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH... YOU'RE RIGHT REV 21: 1-4 TALKS ABOUT A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH... BUT JUST 4 VERSES LATER IN REV 21:8 STILL TALKS ABOUT SINNERS IN THE LAKE OF FIRE REV 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE which burneth with FIRE and brimstone: SO NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH DOESNT AFFECT SINNERS BEING IN THE LAKE OF FIRE WHERE THE DEVIL IS ALSO AND THEY WILL BE TORMENTED "FOREVER AND EVER" rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:35pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: You' re right... HELL WHICH EVER IT IS IS NOT UNENDING BUT THE LAKE OF FIRE IS rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:45pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: Your play on words doesnt work... Mathew 25:46 talks about Eternal reward and punishment.... what is punishment?? noun (plural punishments) 1. The act or process of punishing, imposing and/or applying a sanction. 2. A penalty to punish wrongdoing, especially for crime. 3. A suffering by pain or loss imposed as retribution AS YOU CAN SEE, PUNISHMENT IS A PROCESS THAT CAN GO ON FOR ETERNITY WHEN IT IS "ETERNAL PUNISHMENT" ACCORDING TO MAT 10:28, JESUS CORRECTLY REVEALS THAT WE ARE MADE UP OF BODY AND SOUL.. PEOPLE OR THE DEVIL CAN KILL OUR BODY BUT OUR SOUL CAN ONLY BE KILLED BY GOD... YES GOD CAN LITERALLY KILL OUR SOUL... BUT DEATH HEAR REFERS TO SEPARATION FROM GOD FOR ETERNITY WHICH STARTS IN HELL AND CONTINUES IN THE LAKE OF FIRE... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:58pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: So the wicked being tormented "for ever" means a limited period of time but the righteous reward is Unending right or the glory and power and dominion and reign of God is also unending right YOU'RE RIGHT FOREVER CAN MEAN A PERIOD OF "UNLIMITED TIME " BECAUSE FOR US IT HAS A BEGINNING BUT NO END... IF YOUR THEORY IS RIGHT THEN THE ETERNAL REWARD OR HEAVEN MUST ALSO COME TO AN END WOULDN'T IT psalm 37: 18 The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. MEANING THEY SHALL LOSE THEIR INHERITANCE ONE DAY Psalm 146:10 The LORD will reign forever, Your God, O Zion, to all generations. Praise the LORD! Exodus 15:18 "The LORD shall reign forever and ever." THE LORDS REIGN WILL END EVENTUALLY SINCE FOREVER HAS AN END?? Psalm 10:16 The LORD is King forever and ever; Nations have perished from His land. THE LORD WILL NO LONGER BE KING AT SOME POINT IN TIME?? OR GOD'S GLORY OR DOMINION OR POWER OR REIGN ETC WILL ALSO COME TO AN END.... NOT JUST THE PUNISHMENT SINCE FOREVER HAS SN END?? IF YOU INTERPRET FOREVER DIFFERENTLY FOR GOD AND THE SAVED FROM THE UNSAVED TELL ME WHY... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 5:01pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
blueAgent: This i agree with... but dont forget the lake of fire with death, hell, the devil, sinners etc in it is still there after the new heavens and the new earth materalized in rev 21:1-4 just go four verse later in verse 8.. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 12:52am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Your comprehension skill is laughable. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Even a 7years old child knows that Jesus is referring to the angels in Heaven. If the angels cannot die than they are equal to God, mind you God knows the end of a thing from the begining so while would God create angels he cannot destory knowing they would rebel against him. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 12:53am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: God is immortal only him has immortality no where in the Bible is immortality used in describing any man,angel,or the Devil. When Christ comes the second time the dead in christ will be ressurected and be transformed paul calls it putting on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:53, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 while the righteous who are alive at that moment are also transformed.when the word forever is used to describe God and the saints after there resurrection it means life without end becos they have immortality. God has immortality inherently, while the saints obtain it from Jesus. but the Sinners and the Devil have no immortality a look at the ressurection of the sinners which occur 1000yrs after the ressurection of the Saints does not say that they are transformed or given immortality so which means they can die. This ressurection proves that what goes to Heaven or Hell is the full living human body which consist of body and the spirit of God an that union is called a Soul. That is what Jesus meant by destorying body and Soul in Hell. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 12:54am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Asusual twisting bible verses to suit your fantasy.destruction of the sinners means total destruction stop twisting its meaning. Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. Isaiah 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 12:56am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Forever. Using your logic of the word forever this Bible verses contradict God's character and Bible Psalms 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. Psalms 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. Jeremiah 3:12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. Psalms 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. Jeremiah 3:12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. 1 Chronicles 16:41 And with them Heman and Jeduthun, and the rest that were chosen, who were expressed by name, to give thanks to the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever; 1 Chronicles 16:41 And with them Heman and Jeduthun, and the rest that were chosen, who were expressed by name, to give thanks to the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever; 2 Chronicles 7:3 We all know what mercy means. It means unwillingly to punish or willingly to pardon. Now if the Mercy of God endureth forever than Hellfire would never have existed secondly if God does not hold anger forever than Hellfire cannot exist forever. Moral of the lesson is forever most be understood based on the context in which it is applied. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 12:58am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Asusual twisting bible verses to suit your fantasy.destruction of the sinners means total destruction stop twisting its meaning. Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. Isaiah 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 1:00am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Asusual twisting bible verses to suit your fantasy.destruction of the sinners means total destruction stop twisting its meaning. Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. Isaiah 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 1:06am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Psalms 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 1:08am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: The book of Revelation was not written in Chronological order. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 1:21am On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Scientist has estimated the age of the Universe to be over 13 billion years old,which is like 0.1% fraction of eternity. God does not have a begining or end which means God is far older than 13billion yrs and would continue to exist indefinately. Now you and your doctrine are assuming that God would burn people in Hellfire for more than 13billion yrs and beyond. This is gulliable.God cannot be more heartless than man. What would God gain by burning people for eternity becos of a sinful life of max 200yrs Where is the Justice which God is known for. show where it is written that the Soul is immortal or goes to Hellfire rather than the body. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 7:57am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: Angels were all created for the same purpose... to serve God, Good or bad, They were created with the same LONGEVITY.... GOD IS ALL POWERFUL HE CAN DESTROY ANYTHING HE WANTS HUMANS, ANGELS, ETC... BUT HE CREATED THEM WITH IMMORTALITY... SO THEY TOO WILL SERVE HIM FOREVER... MICHAEL FOR EXAMPLE HAS BEING THERE, SINCE HE WAS CREATED... HE WILL CONTINUE TO BE THERE... JESUS' WORDS WERE VERY CLEAR... ANGELS CANNOT DIE... IT DOESNT MEAN OFCOURSE THAT GOD IF HE CHOOSES TO CANNOT ANNIHILATE THEM... THE THING IS... HE WONT.... GOD IS OUTSIDE OF TIME WHILE EVERYTHING IN CREATION EXISTS IN TIME... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 8:08am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: LOL SO YOU HAVE NOW BROUGHT "SCIENCE" INTO THE ARGUMENT... GODS JUSTICE IS GIVING DUE REWARD AND DUE PUNISHMENT... SO GOD SHOULD GIVE UNENDING HEAVEN TO A PERSON WHO LIVES A RIGHTEOUS LIFE 200YR LIFE BUT SHOULD NOT GIVE UNENDING FIRE/ TORMENT TO A PERSON WHO LIVES A SINFUL LIFE RIGHT? AND THAT IS JUSTICE TO YOU ABI IF YOU'RE AFRAID OF HELL JUST SAY SO... God is infinitely holy, infinitely good etc so when you sin against an infinitely holy God, your punishment should you CHOOSE not to repent is INFINITE... ETERNAL PUNISHMENT if you love and obey an infinitely holy, infinitely good God, your reward will INFINITE, if you dont fall away and remain away.. ETERNAL REWARD... THIS IS THE JUSTICE GOD IS KNOWN FOR... ETERNAL REWARD AND ETERNAL PUNISHMENT (Mat 25:46, Dan 12:2) As for your immortal soul... go and read the earlier comments on this thread... you have swayed the topic enough |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 8:10am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: IF REVELATION WAS NOT WRITTEN IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER THEN YOUR NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH THEORY DOESNT WORK EITHER... because when it happens would be unclear and you can draw your conclusion from it... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 8:12am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: Yes they shall not be... either because they have died and are in hell or in the lake of fire.. THEY SHALL NOT BE ON EARTH OR IN HEAVEN.. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 8:16am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: AMEN... THEY WILL BE DESTROYED... I BELIEVE ALL THOSE VERSES... BUT NOT YOUR INTERPRETATION... destruction for sinners is eternity in the lake of fire.. they will be consumed indeed but in the lake of fire for eternity.. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 8:20am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: You are always accusing me of twisting scripture... who gave you the power to be the sole infallible interpreter of scripture... so that anyone who interprets it differently is twisting it are you the only one who interprets scripture correctly what authority do you have to say that... when according to your doctrine every christian has the right to read and interpret scriptures |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 8:27am On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: YOU'RE RIGHT.. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, GODS MERCY IS NOT OPPOSED TO HIS JUSTICE... IN THIS LIFE HE GIVES US OPPORTUNITIES TO REPENT AND ACCEPT HIS MERCY.. WHEN WE CHOOSE NOT TO.. THEN HIS JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL.... THAT IS WHY PAUL SAYS in heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 2:57pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: You contracdict yourself here their is no justice in burning someone for eternity for sin he committed in a lifetime of let say 200yrs. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:04pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: I never claimed to be the interpreter of the Scripture. We are expected to search and know the truth about God's word. My argument and interpretation of the Bible is consistent with what every other part of the Bible says. The Bible instructs us to 2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. If the Sinners are to burn in Hellfire forever why did the bible talk about the second death and sinners becoming ashes. to reconcile this you need to every bible verse on that particular topic and not just some selected bible verses that support your preconcieved idea. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:07pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Wrong idea. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:07pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: You can google it. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:10pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Your logic is really laughable. The bible says the wages of Sin is DEATH not eternal fire simple. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:25pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Laughable. biggest heresy of the century. You see how you twist scriptures. you said angels are immortal yet you say God can destory them. Why are you scared of facing the truth? If God can destory a the angels as you said then while doubt the fact that the same God has said he will consume sinners (including the Fallen angels and the Devil( and turn them to ashes. While cann't you accept this fact. i know becos it exposes your Church's fake doctrine. Let me ask you while select bible verses and leave the ones that expose your church doctrine? 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: We are not allowed to cherry pick bible verses. all the Bible verses that talks about the fate of sinners the fallen angels and the Devil must be considered that i have done but you keep twisting and recycling the same bible verses even after there true meaning have been proved. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:38pm On Aug 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: But there is Justice in rewarding someone with heaven for eternity for a lifetime of 200yrs right... laughable... |
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