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Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Aizenosa(m): 10:36am On Jul 09, 2017 |
blueAgent: if she has a lot to learn hw come Moses is in heaven and he came to Jesus during the transfiguration of Christ and2ndly hw come saints were raised after the death of Christ, since according to you the 2nd death has not happened, my dear it's a clear fact that you are not reading your Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit, #THE BIBLE IS NOT A STORY BOOK. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 10:41pm On Jul 09, 2017 |
Aizenosa: Moses and Elijah's case were exceptional case. God in his power and wisdom ressurected them for a purpose. The is clear on the State of the dead and when they will come back alive any other thing apart from this is lies from the pit of Hell. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 10:45pm On Jul 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: But there is no principle supporting christains to pray to the dead. Jesus why teaching his disciples how to pray explained that all prayers must be done through his name alone . 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 10:53pm On Jul 09, 2017 |
easymancfc: Proudly Adventist. look it is not about the Church or personal opinion but what the Bible says. If the dead where alive in the other world. then explain to me why the Bible says they are unconscious or why there will be a Resurrection? 2 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 11:08pm On Jul 09, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: I don't claim to know everything. i just want people to know the truth. click and read . https://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-and-a/id/1596/what-about-the-rich-man-and-lazarus https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4987/t/are,the-dead-really-dead www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-does-bible-say-about-death 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 6:12am On Jul 10, 2017 |
blueAgent: in essence what you mean is .. it doesnt matter what the catholic church says or what the catholic church who compiled the Bible says the bible says... what matters is what the seventh day adventist church says the bible says right?? you and the Adventist Church which didnt exist before the 19th century cannot interprete scripture better than the people who compiled it... that and your founder ELLEN GOURD WHITE DOESN'T HAVE APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY TO TEACH... AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT YOU AND E. G. WHITE ARE NOT THE INFALLIBLE INTERPRETERS OF SCRIPTURE... go and read the articles i shared again to see how other Christians see your soul sleep heresy. my dear.. you dont understand simple christian doctrine that has been around for almost 2000 years .. there will be a resurrection of the "Body" at the end. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 6:20am On Jul 10, 2017 |
blueAgent:Just to make a distinction WE DONT PRAY TO THE DEAD... WE ASK MEMBERS OF THE GLORIFIED BODY OF CHRIST FOR THEIR PRAYERS/INTERCESSION.. YES ALL PRAYERS ARE THROUGH JESUS ALONE.. THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN ALSO PRAY IN JESUS NAME.. THAT AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE MEMBERS OF CHRIST BODY.. My dear there is a lot... death doesn't separate us from the body of Christ (rom ... all the members of the body need each other (1 cor 12:19-24).. t heb 12:1 says we have a cloud of witnesses who cheer us on... witnesses observe events.. and attest... rev 5:8.. talks about 24 human beings (elders) who offer prayers of the saints ON EARTH to God.. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by UgoFly: 6:27am On Jul 10, 2017 |
blueAgent: What kind of Lame answer is this? He gave you biblical verses to reply your accusations and you are running around. Come and react to the transfiguration as you know everything about dead ppl. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by malele(m): 6:42am On Jul 10, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Go and read wikipede and check this thing u wrote is true |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Aizenosa(m): 8:14am On Jul 10, 2017 |
blueAgent: Please where are we told it's an exceptional case? 3 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:31am On Jul 10, 2017 |
blueAgent:we can now start throwing links around abi? |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:40am On Jul 10, 2017 |
malele:I have read wiki and it says the same thing. Tyndale was killed in the reign of King Henry, at that time Henry had formed the Anglican church and had been excommunicated from the Catholic Church. That simply means it was your fellow protestants who killed tyndale. The least you guys can do to admit your own stuff and stop trying to lie on others. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Syncan(m): 8:51am On Jul 10, 2017 |
malele: He is right. Have you read Wikipedia? William Tyndale died in 1536, but earlier; the following had happened: "With the Acts of Supremacy in 1534, Parliament also recognised the King's status as head of the church in England and, with the Act in Restraint of Appeals in 1532, abolished the right of appeal to Rome." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_of_England 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:05am On Jul 10, 2017 |
blueAgent:ask yourself why you are a member of a church whose teaching are alien to 1900yrs of Christianity. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by CanadianNurse: 9:22am On Jul 10, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:Yea.. Real funny how this happens 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 11:15am On Jul 10, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Ask him oh... their big defence is that of the great apostasy which is contrary to scripture and Jesus' promises. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Amberon11: 1:51pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
The bible didnt say you should ask the dead to pray for you. Mark 12: 27 He is not the God of the dead , but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken." easymancfc: |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Amberon11: 1:57pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
James 5: 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church , and let them pray over him , anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. rejosom: |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:10pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Amberon11: This is what happens when you don't understand scriptures. Now read again. “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” If you read with comprehension you would have noticed that the text actually means that to God neither Abraham, Isaac or Jacob is dead, to him they are alive hence he is God of the living not of the dead. Read with understanding. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:29pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:in case you still don't get it the book of Luke explains it well Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Amberon11: 3:49pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Take your own and read with understanding. That verse was clear and straightforward. Ubenedictus: |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 4:39pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Amberon11: It is so straightforward that I am surprised you totally misapplied it. Okay compare, that passage mean even the so-called dead are alive to God. Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:55pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Amberon11: You are the one greatly mistaken because the verse you quoted actually supports my views... mark 12:27 talks in context about the dead in Christ actually being alive with God because it talking about "dead" people (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) who had been dead for about 1000+ years... mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is not this why you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:58pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Amberon11: Amen... Just like the 24 elders in heaven offer our prayers to God.. rev 5:8... And P.s. A modern day suit wearing pastor is not the same as the "elder" or as the greek calls it.. "presbytheros" |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Nobody: 10:20pm On Jul 10, 2017 |
Please someone should explain this ... Jesus said "today you will be with me in Paradise" Paul said . ...."I'm in a strait betwixt two to go and meet the Lord or stay with you a little longer" The knowledge the old testament saints have about the dead isn't as clear as the one we have now Jesus talked about losing a member of your body is preferred to the whole of your body lost in hell fire.... A lot of us still really haven't understood the Bible It's not enough to judge the Catholics everyone knows their flaws even their Popes do apologise for what they did in the past ..... We modern Christians are Swift to point accusing fingers but never ready to help or show them the Way..... That shows we aren't different from the lawyers and Pharisees Also in the case of cloud of witnesses One thing you should know is that the soul never dies (cease activity) ..... It can be separated from God forever (2nd death) And also Abel who was dead yet was speaking...... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 7:20am On Jul 11, 2017 |
Ferisidowu: indeed sir.. some people are just very anti catholic... if they actually want to "save" or "help" us.. then let it be done in love not by insults as many of them here result to... P.S. we dont need any saving... we belong to the Church founded by Christ and that has existed for 2000 years, gone through alot but is still here because as Ephe 3:21 says "to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen." Secondly there's no such thing as a perfect church... all institutions that have humans in it are flawed... so all churches have flaws.. and we all know them.. Pentecostals... Evangelicals, Adventists etc... I can list a handful of flaws present.. all of your modern day churches especially in Nigeria are barely 50 yrs old and have been affected by various scandals how much more the catholic church which is 2000 yrs old... 2 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 1:39pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Adventist is the best church in the World. i was not born an Adventist but i discovered the truth and became one. We are not intrested in general opinion but We are intrested in what God says through his word the Bible. Have you not read in James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Have you not read in revelation that the Devil will decieve the whole world? that he has successed in doing using your church and evil doctrines. My church is different we refuse to compromise. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 2:36pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
blueAgent: The saying that the devil succeeded in overcoming the church Christ founded goes against Jesus' words, his power and scripture itself... Jesus promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church he would found... which was on PETER not on ELLEN WHITE (Mat 16:18-19... obviously adventist wasn't that Church because it never existed until the 19th century and it was founded by a WOMAN WITH NO APOSTOLIC CONNECTION OR AUTHORITY Jesus often talks about overcoming a strong man before plundering his house.. mat 12:29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. The Devil would have to have overcome Christ before plundering his house the Church (mathew 16:18, 1 tim 3:15),WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE Thirdly Paul says that God would be glorified in the Church in EVERY GENERATION, WORLD WITHOUT END....(Eph 3:21) THERE WAS NO ADVENTIST CHURCH or any other apart from the catholic church IN THE 100s, 200s, 300s, upto the 16th century when the Anglican, Lutherans and other PROTESTANT SECTS CAME UP, AND ANOTHER 300YEARS BEFORE YOUR CHURCH STARTED... GOD HAS BEEN GLORIFYING HIMSELF IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR 1900YEARS BEFORE YOUR SECT WAS FOUND, fourthly, Jesus said a wise man builds his upon a rock, so that it may withstand the test of all the hazards of weather and a foolish man builds upon sand... mat 7:24ba wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock And according to MATHEW 16, JESUS FOUNDED HIS CHURCH UPON A ROCK, AND THAT CHURCH WILL WITHSTAND ALL THE ASSAULTS OF THE DEVIL THAT IS WHY HE SAID, "THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT... JESUS IS THE WISEMAN WHO BUILDS HIS HOUSE (THE CHURCH mat 16:18-19, 1 tim 3:15) UPON A SOLID ROCK, HE IS NOT THE FOOLISH MAN WHO BUILDS UPON SAND. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FOOLISH MAN'S HOUSE.. mat 7:26b a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it. If the church was built on sand then it would fall to the attacks of the devil, but thank God mat 16:18-19 tells us it was not.. I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT MY JESUS IS BOTH A "STRONG MAN (mat 12:29) AND A WISEMAN (mat 7:24-26)....AND HE DEFINITELY KEEPS HIS WORDS... ON BEING DECEIVED BY THE DEVIL, THE BIBLE SAID THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE END TIMES AND GUESS WHAT, 1900s SEEMS MORE "END TIMEY" THAN THE 100s 2 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:27pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
easymancfc:I just have to agree, Jesus certainly keeps his promises. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:49pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
blueAgent: Revelation say the devil deceived the world at the end time, it didn't say the devil defeated the church so God needed to call Ellen white to start her own after the apostles were gone. In fact the Bible says that the church built on the apostles by Jesus will never go out of phase hell will never prevail against her. So ask yourself if your church which actually began at the end times isn't a manifestation of the work and deception of the devil trying to remove people from true Christianity by drawing them to modern day heresy. I never said you Doctrine must be popular but is certainly must be true historic Christian belief. If the xtians who heard from the apostles never interpreted the passage as you do and do not believe it then maybe you have a false interpretation. Christians in 100ad didn't believe soul sleep nor those in 200ad or even 300ad no good Christian held that teaching. It is a modern day heresy. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 6:40am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: You are confusing yourself. Go and google about the history of your Church doctrines. Paul spoked about the falling away of early christains from the faith and from sound doctrine. you can see it is not a new thing. Your church claims to be the first church but thats a big lie. Ellen G White was not the sole founder of Adventist they were more than 3 people which started the church based on Bible doctrine not on Heresy like your church. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 6:45am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Jesus warned ( Matt. 7:15), “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” Much of His ministry consisted of confronting the false teaching of the religious leaders of His day (cf. Matt. 16:11-12; 23:1-39). In His discourse on things to come, He warned ( Matt. 24:4-5), “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.” The apostle Peter devotes most of 2 Peter to warning against false teachers. Jude devotes his entire short letter to the same theme. John in his epistles repeatedly warns of false teachers. Paul’s final words to the Ephesian elders warned them. Acts 20:28-30 His final letters to Timothy and Titus repeatedly emphasize the need for sound doctrine. He told Titus (1:9) that an elder must hold “fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.” He goes on to explain that there are many empty talkers and deceivers who are upsetting whole households through their false teaching. In his final charge to Timothy, after telling him to preach the word, he explained ( 2 Tim. 4:3-4), “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.” So it should not surprise us that as Paul concludes his letter to the Romans, in the midst of giving and sending warm greetings to the saints, he breaks in with this warning to beware of false teachers. Some liberal commentators have thought that this paragraph is so abrupt and out of context that it must have been added by a later scribe. But Paul was constantly battling false teachers who hounded his steps and perverted the truth of the gospel. He was writing from Corinth, where false apostles posing as servants of righteousness had caused much damage ( 2 Cor. 11:3-15). As he thought of his many dear friends in Rome, he didn’t want them to be led astray. He had heard that they were doing well in the Lord (16:19a), but the present is no guarantee for the future. So his love for them prompted him to insert this warning against the dangers of false teachers 1 Like |
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