بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم.

The term Sunnah as will be used in this article means the way of the rightly guided sect, that the prophet alyhissolaat wassalam promised safety from hell.

The Basic principle of the people of Sunnah is that they follow the way of the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum and do not innovate anything that contradicts the understanding of the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum into the religion of Allah.

Allah says to the companions:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 137:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنتُم بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوا وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
6(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

And Allah says about them also:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 115:
وَمَن يُشَاقِقِ الرَّسُولَ مِن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَىٰ وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّىٰ وَنُصْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا

And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

The believers referred to in the verse are the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum.

The above verses are the reason why Imam Ahmad bn Hanbal said:

The foundation of Sunnah as far as we are concerned is holding on to what the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum were upon.
(Usool Sunnah)

I used to wonder why he didn't say: "holding on to the Quran and Sunnah" but instead said "holding on to what the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum were upon"

Then it became clear to me that every innovator claims to hold on to the Quran and Sunnah but the condition that no innovator will ever fulfil is to prove that his innovation is in line with the thinking of the companions.

so,whoever wishes to be free from all the deviations should stick to the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum, they were the best of students and the purest of generations,

The Prophet Muhammad alyhissolaat wassalam said:

صحيح البخاري

كتاب أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم

1 - باب فضائل أصحاب النبى

حديث رقم :3526

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ كَثِيرٍ، أَخْبَرَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ مَنْصُورٍ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏

"‏ خَيْرُ النَّاسِ قَرْنِي، ثُمَّ الَّذِينَ يَلُونَهُمْ، ثُمَّ الَّذِينَ يَلُونَهُمْ، ثُمَّ يَجِيءُ قَوْمٌ تَسْبِقُ شَهَادَةُ أَحَدِهِمْ يَمِينَهُ وَيَمِينُهُ شَهَادَتَهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ وَكَانُوا يَضْرِبُونَا عَلَى الشَّهَادَةِ وَالْعَهْدِ وَنَحْنُ صِغَارٌ‏.‏

Soheehul Bukharee

Book of the virtues of The Prophet's companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum

The virtues of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah be pleased with them

Hadith no :3526

Narrated `Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "The best people are those living in my generation, and then those who will follow them, and then those who will follow the latter. Then there will come some people who will bear witness before taking oaths, and take oaths before bearing witness." (Ibrahim, a sub-narrator said, "They used to beat us for witnesses and covenants when we were still children."

Jazakallaah khayran!

The prophet was asked who are the saved group(firqatun naajiyah), he said: whoever is upon exactly what me and my companions are upon.....


Thus, anything other than that is misguidance......

All of the salafs without exception placed much importance on understanding the Islamic texts as the sahabas understood it, as imam Al-albaani rahimahullaah will always say, every sect will always quote from the Qur'an and sunnah, but understanding them as the salafs (beginning from the sahabas) understood it is the criterion for its correctness.....

Sufis today claim to have gotten salatul faati from the Qur'an

Khawaarij claim to have gotten their terrorist ideology from thr Qur'an

Quranist claim to have gotten their ideology from Qur'an and some ahaadeeth

And so on....

Holding on to what the sahabas held on to is the criterion....

And it is known that truth, the straight path can never be more than one, Allaah says in:

Surah Yunus, Verse 32:

فَمَاذَا بَعْدَ الْحَقِّ إِلَّا الضَّلَالُ

and what is there after the truth but error?

(English - Shakir)

via iQuran


So truth is one, and the truth is to hold on to what the companions held on to, there is nothing which will take us close to Allaah except the prophet has enjoined it on us, just as how he says:

ما تركت شيئا يقربكم الى الله الا امرتكم به

I have not left anything at all that will take you close to Allaah except that I have (explained and)enjoined it on you

So any thing he has not enjoined will not take you close to Allaah except that it takes you even far from him as the prophet said:

من عمل عملا ليس عليه امرنا فهو رد

Whoever does a deed which we've not enjoined, it will be rejected.

So it becomes clear that anything not enjoined on us and we do it will take us far from Allaah since your supposedly good deed which you would've used to get close to Allaah will be rejected, and this shows the misguidance of all the sects that have deviated from the understanding of the sahabas...

The prophet himself drew a straight line for the companions and said: This is the path of Allaah, then he drew lines to the left of the straight line and to it's right and said, these are ways, upon every single way is a shaytaan calling to it.

And we know as it was said in the beginning that this straight path is holding on to what the companions held on to, since it was the prophet himself that said this and the prophet does not say out of his own whims and desires, except it is a revelation sent to him.....

Imam al-Barbaharee said in Sharh us-Sunnah: Islam is sunnah

Amoto94:
Imam al-Barbaharee said in Sharh us-Sunnah: Islam is sunnah

and Sunnah is Islam and neither of the two can stand without the other.

I remember during the fitnah of the Jamaican deviant, he was similar to this mesu jamba tekfeeri.

He declared Albany, ibn Baaz and Uthymeen kuffaar.

It is said that he told his follower:

If you have a copy of the Quran, soheehul Bukharee and my lectures, you are sufficed.

SubhanaLLaah!!!

Newnas:
I remember during the fitnah of the Jamaican deviant, he was similar to this mesu jamba tekfeeri.

He declared Albany, ibn Baaz and Uthymeen kuffaar.

It is said that he told his follower:

If you have a copy of the Quran, soheehul Bukharee and my lectures, you are sufficed.

SubhanaLLaah!!!

The one who claimed that Albani is weak in aqeedah, may Allāh rid the ummah of deviants like this.

AbdelKabir:
Jazakallaah khayran!

The prophet was asked who are the saved group(firqatun naajiyah), he said: whoever is upon exactly what me and my companions are upon.....


Thus, anything other than that is misguidance......

All of the salafs without exception placed much importance on understanding the Islamic texts as the sahabas understood it, as imam Al-albaani rahimahullaah will always say, every sect will always quote from the Qur'an and sunnah, but understanding them as the salafs (beginning from the sahabas) understood it is the criterion for its correctness.....

Sufis today claim to have gotten salatul faati from the Qur'an

Khawaarij claim to have gotten their terrorist ideology from thr Qur'an

Quranist claim to have gotten their ideology from Qur'an and some ahaadeeth

And so on....

Holding on to what the sahabas held on to is the criterion....

So Imam Shafi'i (RA) was innovator for composing salawat other than salawat Ibrahimmiya for the nabi(SAW)?. And I read Imam Ali(RA) also composed salat other than Ibrahimiya. He was innovator?. All you have to do is bring out from Quran where Allah (azal wajal) composed salat ibrahimiya in one ayah or two for Nabi Ibrahim(AS).

So back to Salafi, they also claim to have gotten their ideology from Quran. Sohaba didnt even agree on all sunnat. Get over it. Islami Is SUNNAH.

You forgot that tafsir is not realy the knowledge rather the effort behnd is. Most of the tafsir are not directly from nabi. Rather, igbinyanju awon alfa esin. That is knowledge. You just readin tafsir like readin text books

Newnas:
.

The Basic principle of the people of Sunnah is that they follow the way of the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum and do not innovate anything that contradicts the understanding of the companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum into the religion of Allah.

1. Ahlu Sunnah as a whole might agree with that basic principle but apart from the fact that there is no evidence for it, that has also grossly contradict several ahadith. Here's one where Nabi mentioned in a clear term whom to follow for guidance:


"...For, whoever lives among you shall witness after me
several disagreements. Therefore, follow my Sunnah and
the sunnah of the khulafa, who are rashidun and
mahdiyun. Bite onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of innovated matters. For, verily, every innovation is a bid’ah; and verily, every bid’ah is misguidance.”


This hadith can be found in Sunan of Abi Dawud, “Kitab al-Sunnah (model behavior of the Prophet); Book 42, Hadith 12; Book 41, Hadith 4590
http://sunnah.com/abudawud/42


# This hadith established a clear fact that sahabah themselves after the demise of Nabi will experience severe disagreement among themselves.


# Nabi did not only mentioned and ordered the Ummah/sahabah to follow Khulafah from among them, but even described the specific characteristics of Khulafah he was talking about to be rashidun and mahdiyun. So, why should we follow " the Sahabah" as if all of them were khulafah, who were rashidun and mahdiyun?


Shaykh Dr. al-Fawzan explains in his Sharah Aqeedah Wastia, pg. 165: “The Rashid is he who knows the truth and practices it. His opposite is the deviant, and that is he who knows the truth but does not practice it.His statement (mahdiyin) means those whom Allah guided to the truth.”

# The fact that Sunni have hadith which says "they are the best of generations" does not translated to "follow them" with no exception. The hadith above is par 100% with the Qur'an ayah, "Obey Allah, and obey Rasul and those vested with authority from amongst you".


# We know for a fact that some sahabah apostatised after Nabi, and innovated into Islam severely.


There are records where a Khalifah ordered people to do innovation, and some of his fellow sahabah refused to do it. For example, Uthman Ibn Affan forbid people performing Umra and Hajj together. Here's his fellow sahabah who opposed him:

Imam al-Nasai documents:

Ibrahim ibn Yahqub – Uthman ibn Umar – Ismail ibn Muslim – Muhammad ibn Wasi – Mutarif:

Imran ibn Hussein said to me, “The Messenger of Allah performed "Umrah and Hajj together, and we performed 'Umrah and Hajj together with him, and whoever says anything different, that is his own personal opinion.”

Source: Sunan al-Nasai, kitab al-Hajj, Book 24, Hadith 2739 www.sunnah.com/nasai/24


In fact, Ali's word while replying Uthman was: “I will never abandon the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, on the word of anyone from mankind

Empiree:
So Imam Shafi'i (RA) was innovator for composing salawat other than salawat Ibrahimmiya for the nabi(SAW)?. And I read Imam Ali(RA) also composed salat other than Ibrahimiya. He was innovator?. All you have to do is bring out from Quran where Allah (azal wajal) composed salat ibrahimiya in one ayah or two for Nabi Ibrahim(AS).

Bring a source for your statement...... Pls don't bring the nonsense source you gave the dull "Ahlusunna", one rubbish book written by a barelvi, pearl of blablabla....bring a reliable source that has chain of narration to the two salafs you've mentioned.....if you can't do that, may Allaah hold you accountable for the lie you've lied against these two imams, Ameen, except if you repent from it....

AbdelKabir:


Bring a source for your statement...... Pls don't bring the nonsense source you gave the dull "Ahlusunna", one rubbish book written by a barelvi, pearl of blablabla....bring a reliable source that has chain of narration to the two salafs you've mentioned.....if you can't do that, may Allaah hold you accountable for the lie you've lied against these two imams, Ameen, except if you repent from it....

Thats your problem. When they present their dalil linking to sahaba, you still reject it anyways. So deal with it. I know you.

Empiree:
Thats your problem. When they present their dalil linking to sahaba, you still reject it anyways. So deal with it. I know you.

OK, you don't have proof for the nonsense you spewed ??

Again, may Allaah hold you accountable for the lie you just attributed to these great salafs.....Ameen...

Now run along with your tails between your legs

AbdelKabir:

The prophet was asked who are the saved group(firqatun naajiyah), he said: whoever is upon exactly what me and my companions are upon.....


Thus, anything other than that is misguidance......

All of the salafs without exception placed much importance on understanding the Islamic texts as the sahabas understood it, as imam Al-albaani rahimahullaah will always say, every sect will always quote from the Qur'an and sunnah, but understanding them as the salafs (beginning from the sahabas) understood it is the criterion for its correctness.....


And so on....

Holding on to what the sahabas held on to is the criterion....

* First:

# It is a fact in hadith al-hawd which is Mutawattir that Nabi says, "some from amongst my sahabah... who used to keep me company, will apostatised...innovate after me...."

This is a clear statement. Translating and interpreting the underlined statement above as if Nabi refer to every sundry sahabah is an obvious contradiction of hadith al-hawd.


# Any Sahabi or group of them that deviate from what Nabi is upon is outrightly among the innovators.


* Second:

# The next version of the hadith of "73" did not end with: what me and my companions are upon" rather it ends with: "who are with the jama'ah."


# Jama'ah simply means congregation under one leader/leadership with same Aqeedah.


# It's a fact beyond reasonable doubt that sahabah were never under the same umbrella. To save our breathe, we can limit ourselves to the time of Ali Ibn Abi Talib onward. The Muslim Ummah was in disarray. Till date, there are sub-sects within every sect of the Muslim be it AhluSunnah, Shia, Sufi etc. No single leader to whom they attached, and there are conflicting differences in aqeedah leading each to accuse other of not belonging to the "Jama'ah".


# Yet, the third version of the hadith neither conclude with what 1 & 2 versions concluded with.


# The only criterion upon the truth is what you have rejected or misinterpreted.

AbdelKabir:


OK, you don't have proof for the nonsense you spewed ??

Again, may Allaah hold you accountable for the lie you just attributed to these great salafs.....Ameen...

Now run along with your tails between your legs

Did you even understand what is written?. You and I have debated on issue here especially on dhikr. You posted twisted tafsir by your shuyukh and rejected every proof i brought as "lousy dalil". WHy should i waste my time over?

Of course I won't waste my time with the two of you......

For one who wants clarification on what the rafidhi said, Al-jama'ah in this particular hadeeth still means "whatever me and my companions are upon" since one version says "Al-jama'ah" and another says "whatever me and my companions are upon" it is incumbent on us to interpret the ambiguous text with the clear one.....the ambiguous version said "jama'ah" the clearer one says "whatever me and my companions are upon"......


Also jama'ah does not necessarily mean a group of people in the shareeah like the rafidhi said, that's only a linguistic meaning....

In the shareeah jama'ah means the people who are upon truth, even if its just ONE PERSON, Allaah says in the Qur'an

إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ كَانَ أُمَّةً

Verily Ibrahim(alayhi salatu wa salaam) was an Ummah....


Subhanallaah, Allaah called only Ibrahim an ummah, why because he was the only upon truth as at then, how did I know? Allaah says:

وَلَمْ يَكُ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

And he was not of the polytheists....


The polytheists were upon falsehood and only Ibrahim was upon truth, thus he was called an ummah, from here we see the real definition of ummah according to the shareeah...

^^

LOl ...long winded tafsir just to provide a single ayah where Allah composed salawat specifically for nabi ibrahim(as). And i dont have problems with salatu ibrahimmiya.. was just telling you there is no restriction for composing other salawat. Thats all

Empiree:
^^

LOl ...long winded tafsir just to provide a single ayah where Allah composed salawat specifically for nabi ibrahim(as). And i dont have problems with salatu ibrahimmiya.. was just telling you there is no restriction for composing other salawat. Thats all

You better don't kill yourself, I was not talking to you, honestly you should bury your head in shame, for lying against those two salafs.....

I don't want to know and don't care if you have problems with salaatu ibrahimiyyah, as far as the prophet prescribed it for us, I am OK with that..... You can continue reading your innovated salawaat, millions of time, na you sabi........

AbdelKabir:
You can continue reading your innovated salawaat, millions of time, na you sabi........

We know what innovation is, we don't need your newly invented definition of bid'a.

AbdelKabir:


For one who wants clarification , Al-jama'ah in this particular hadeeth still means "whatever me and my companions are upon" since one version says "Al-jama'ah" and another says "whatever me and my companions are upon" it is incumbent on us to interpret the ambiguous text with the clear one.....

You dont have to distort his post. In the hadith he quoted, the NABI (saw) was specifically addressing ‘some‘ of his sahabas & not even later generations coz he said “whoever live long enough among you after me“ to follow the rightly guided among his other sahabas & not that later generations should follow all his sahabas as you are trying to paint it.--ofcourse later generations are gonna live after him, so the advice is not addressed to them @least not directly.

Also jama'ah does not necessarily mean a group of people in the shareeah like the he said, that's only a linguistic meaning....

Jammah means a GROUP whether in LUGGA or SHARI‘A! as far as this hadith is concerned! And that ‘GROUP‘ is the NABI (saw) & his rashidun (ra), the NABI(saw) wont advise that any group to be followed unless their practices conforms with those of that ‘GROUP‘

Verily Ibrahim(alayhi salatu wa salaam) was an Ummah

Subhanallaah, Allaah called only Ibrahim an ummah, why because he was the only upon truth as at then, how did I know? Allaah says
َ
And he was not of the polytheists....

Lols...here GOD wasnt refering to him as a JAMMAH but the size of IMAN! & he wasnt the only one upon the truth then, hes got wives & children @least! & there was LUT also as @ then.
Besides, the NABI (saw) also made such declearation & he wasnt the only MUSLIM then. Not being a mushreek dosnt mean hes the only muslim

So Albaqir was right in all his submission. Lets learn to accept the TRUTH & leave sentiments aside.

GOD accepted what even the devil said in Q38:82-84 coz its the TRUTH!

The questions are waiting on the other side.

@ikupakuti

You dont have to distort his post. In the hadith he quoted, the NABI (saw) was specifically addressing ‘some‘ of his sahabas & not even later generations coz he said “whoever live long enough among you after me“ to follow the rightly guided among his other sahabas & not that later generations should follow all his sahabas as you are trying to paint it.--ofcourse later generations are gonna live after him, so the advice is not addressed to them @least not directly.

Look at the post I was replying very well before you jump into conclusions....

Jammah means a GROUP whether in LUGGA or SHARI‘A! as far as this hadith is concerned! And that ‘GROUP‘ is the NABI (saw) & his rashidun (ra), the NABI(saw) wont advise that any group to be followed unless their practices conforms with those of that ‘GROUP‘

And I also said this

Al-jama'ah in this particular hadeeth still means "whatever me and my companions are upon"

Did you miss that?

Lols...here GOD wasnt refering to him as a JAMMAH but the size of IMAN! & he wasnt the only one upon the truth then, hes got wives & children @least! & there was LUT also as @ then.
Besides, the NABI (saw) also made such declearation & he wasnt the only MUSLIM then. Not being a mushreek dosnt mean hes the only muslim

When he was not yet married? When he was thrown in fire? Was he not the only one upon truth When he destroyed their idols and gave the bigger one the axe? If so calling him ummah then wouldn't have been correct right?......ibn katheer gives tafsir of this aayah

Majaahid(ibn jabr, a taabi'i) said: "ummah" that is: an ummah (himself) all alone.......and Mujaahid also said; "Ibrahim was an ummah" that is, the only believer and the people, ALL OF THEM were then disbelievers.....

So what I said is not strange you only have to read more to understand more.....

Also, I'm not the first to say jama'ah does not necessarily mean a group ibn mas'ood says:
“The Jamaa'ah is what conforms to the truth, even if you are alone.” (Reported by Ibn ‘Asaakir in Taareekh Dimashq)

Imam al-Barbaharee in his book Sharh-us-Sunnah: and the Jama'ah is the truth, and whoever is upon the truth. They are the Jama'ah.

My other account was banned by anti-spam for typing Arabic, this is why I'm giving it in English now

So Alb.aqir was right in all his submission. Lets learn to accept the TRUTH & leave sentiments aside.

Rather you have to learn how to calmly read and not jump into conclusions.....

The questions are waiting on the other side.

I wasn't going to answer them.....going back and forth is no longer my thing, I'm not discussing to "win" or to "convince" but to highlight "truth" for the ones that truly need it.....so don't expect an answer from me even if I have answers for them.....

Plus I'm not any under some sort of pressure to reply....there should be a time to call it quit...

The Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said: “I guarantee a house on the outskirts of Paradise for one who leaves arguments even if he is right....

Sunan Abi dawood...

exit strategy

Relax, nothing to get agitated over, its all for understanding.

AbooUthaymeen:
Look at the post I was replying well before you jump into conclusions....

Lols ofcourse! I did look! Arent you the advocate of using the ambagious to interprete the less ambagious ? Arent they all talking about the rightly guided after him ? Arent they all under the KITAB SUNNAH, dealing with same subject ? Can you show me the contradiction in the subject matter of the 2 ?

Al-jama‘ah in this particular hadeeth still means “whatever me and my companions are upon“

Yes! But you are trying to narrow it down to one person, mind you, here we are talking about who to follow & not who followed. So, as far as the NABI(saw) & his UMMAH are concerned, that personality can never suit a single person.

When he was yet married ? When he was thrown into the fire ? Was he not the only one upon truth when he destroyed their idols....

YES! Before he did all that! Maybe you should stop assuming. The vs you quoted is Q16:120 now you are quoting ANBIYYAH where nothing of such was mentioned. In the vs you quoted, GOD was giving a comprehensive remark on NABI IBRAHIM (as) to buttress preceeding ayahs only. There were not any discussion of his prior, in the sura. So, how did you now @ what certain point in his lifetime God was refering to ?
And even the ANBIYYAH you quoted for support, the next vs says, after he was delivered out of fire, he was helped to escape from his people along with LUT! to a blessed land! So, this verses nullify the claim that NABI IBRAHIM was the only believer as of that time & by extension, the UMMAH title of him does not denote JAMMAH but his size of IMAN.
ALL those tafsirs you quoted for support are off!

I wasnt going to answer them....

If you dont, I will. For the sake of clarification. Cos those misunderstood points are the bane of understanding in this UMMAH.

Abdelkabir
please don't waste your time with these people

why is it that anytime you brothers opened a thread to proof your position against majority of the Muslims and we come on board to refute you, you always give up when you have no counterclaim?. I have noticed this trend/. You usually put your tale btw your legs and run away

[s]

Empiree:
why is it that anytime you brothers opened a thread to proof your position against majority of the Muslims and we come on board to refute you, you always give up when you have no counterclaim?. I have noticed this trend/. You usually put your tale btw your legs and run away

[/s]

#1 Fallacy

#2 talking last doesn't mean you have a better opinion or proof. Some people just dislike boring and monotonous cycles of argument.

Newnas:
[s][/s]

#1 Fallacy

[s]#2 talking last doesn't mean you have a better opinion or proof. Some people just dislike boring and monotonous cycles of argument.[/s]

Unfortunately

Empiree:
why is it that anytime you brothers opened a thread to proof your position against majority of the Muslims and we come on board to refute you, you always give up when you have no counterclaim?. I have noticed this trend/. You usually put your tale btw your legs and run away

Lols they dont like being checkmated & they are usually the first to stir the honey‘s nest. And when their pack of lies start crumbling instead of them to capitulate in honour, they take the cowardly exit...run.

I dont understand why one would subscribe to an ideaology he cant defend.

ikupakuti:


Lols they dont like being checkmated & they are usually the first to stir the honey‘s nest. And when their pack of lies start crumbling instead of them to capitulate in honour, they take the cowardly exit...run.

I dont understand why one would subscribe to an ideaology he cant defend.

Like I said, most of the arguments on this forum are wastes of time. Some arguments last for a week or longer, reaching 3pages or 5. In the end no conclusion.
The reason is just one:

#Sufis and shias have no principles, they are seekers and followers of anarchy. They want to rip the Quran,sunnah and Consensus of the first generations of validity and being used as proofs.
They have their point and opinion already, then they seek evidence for their claim desperately.

By declaring weak hadith reliable or declaring reliable books and hadith weak and unreliable.
or by Interpolating the meaning of verses and reports.

Or fabrication of hadith and stories...

The shias are the worst in these. Their ideology has no authentic claim to any of the first generations of the household except claims and clear lies. That's why they can never mention the chain of their hadith.

The one who has any sense of foresight knows that the the one who has no aim for the truth but is only after supporting his ideology is the last person that a wise person will argue with.

Especially, the shias, lying and fabrication is their religion.

If I respond to any of their claims its just because of my fear that some innocent but ignorant Muslims might be misguided by them not because I see them fit for discussion or debate.

Debating the people of desires is a pure waste of time.

Empiree:
^^

LOl ...long winded tafsir just to provide a single ayah where Allah composed salawat specifically for nabi ibrahim(as). And i dont have problems with salatu ibrahimmiya.. was just telling you there is no restriction for composing other salawat. Thats all

Imagine this response.

Completely not of knowledge.

A person interpretes a verses with another, this man calls it long winded. Completely absurd.

Is this the kind of Joker and ignoramus I should be engaging. Obviously no!

The people are of three categories:

The knowledgeable: follow him

The ignorant: teach him

The follower of lust and distortions: say what you can then stay away from him

Surah Al-Araf, Verse 199:
خُذِ الْعَفْوَ وَأْمُرْ بِالْعُرْفِ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْجَاهِلِينَ

Show forgiveness, enjoin what is good, and turn away from the foolish (i.e. don't punish them).
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran