Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah (2625 Views)
Sheikh Dauda Onyeaocha Is Dead! Chief Imam Of Imo State Dies / Ziyarat To The Haram Of Imam Ali Al-ridha (as), 8th Shia Imam / Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn Muhammad Al-taa'i Al-andalusi (2) (3) (4)
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 10:58am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Kaytixy: # Ayé ma nika o. First Empiree never insulted you. He only quoted a verse of Quran for you to meditate on. Interestingly, you hate being insulted yet here you are from one thread to the other insulting those in your opinion to be kafir, even with his family. What kind of human being are you? # @underline, you expect me to go dirty with you?  No wonder you are strolling from one end of a thread to the other searching for albaqir. Sorry, you will be greatly disappointed. Really, I don't waste my time and resources on people like you.1 Like |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 5:17pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
It beats me why you shine your teeth thinking you're deceiving me or any other, but fact remains you're deceiving yourself. AlBaqir: So your Ayatollaah told you this? Please and please, read my explanations because if you don't, I'll be forced to forfeit this discussion. The verse was revealed in the house of one of the wives, why should the wives need to be covered? Even going further, it becomes clear that the wives were the ones the verse was referring(to which the Prophet included the 4). And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AlHikmah (i.e. Prophet's Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Quran and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, WellAcquainted with all things. Qur'an 33:34 So how many houses does Ali have for this to be recited? Answer me na!!! Besides I asked you a question which you tactically evaded whilst shining your ewedu infested teeth: "Do you notice the emphasis? Are you saying Allaah intends to purify those who are born perfect and infallible(as per Shi'a beliefs)? You see how ridiculous it sounds?! This verse alone has crippled the so-called infallibility of your Imams!" For your other point from Tabari, you're not saying anything new, it's what I've been saying all along!! # You have only one option and that is to declare those ahadith falsehood, that state the "verse of purification" was a lone ayah, revealed alone, recited alone, and Nabi's interpreted it alone with those 5 individuals (including himself). What are you saying? Was it not revealed at the home of one of his wives? You just keep pouring in your perverted interpretations! # I am not treating the verses from 28 - 34/35. Not even the whole of verse 33. I am only treating "verse of tathir" as exposed by those ahadith. Lol!!! You're one of the same people that will open mouth and shout "out of context" when non-Muslims do what you're doing. Looks like you are the one who needs ruqya after all, just look at how you're mischievous just because of your hatred for the mother of believers. # There are many many verses in the Qur'an that were revealed alone and singly but due to compilation that we have today do not enjoy their individuality again. That is they are jampacked with other verses. A good example is the verse "today I have completed your religion and chosen Islam". It is said to be the last verse revealed, and it was revealed singly. Where is it today? Inside a very long verse 3/4 of surah al-Maidah (Qur'an chapter 5). Lol I even heard one of your Ayatollaahs said Uthman was the one that rearranged this verse because of his hatred of the Ahl Bayt. Come up with something else please!!! Abeg go back to the hadith of Sahih Muslim. When Nabi gathered Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein for Mubahala, he said, " these are my Ahl al-Bayt ". Are they not his Ahl Bayt before ni? Why don't you look at the whole context before passing judgment, they're the Prophet's Ahl Bayt and his offspring. Ali being a son in law, Fatima daughter and Hassan wa Hussain his grandchildren. The hadith I quoted even made it clearer what the opponents were expecting to happen! # The word "nisa'ana" is obviously in plural and could mean "wives and female children together (it is used a lot in the Qur'an for the wives)" yet only Fatima was chosen. And Nabi said what he said above that " these are my Ahl al-Bayt ". All these reinforce and point towards Ayat tathir Q.33:33/hadith kisa. It was referred in general terms, when mubahala was to occur people with one child would come out, some with ten, etc. The opponents might have had many children, so it's in a general term. Ibn Taymiyyah(Rahimahullâh) explains: “the reason that (only) these were invited because the command for each group was to call for their sons, women and their self from among their closest relatives. So everyone of them should call for their sons, women and the closest men to their lineage. And these were the closest to the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) in their lineage, even though there were those who were more superior to them near him (pbuh). So the command was not to call for the superior people from them because requirement for each of them was to call for their special relatives. That is because the fear a person have for them and mercy which he have for his near relatives, and that is why they were specialized in the incident of Al-Kisa and supplication (during that incident). The Mubahila is based on justice, hence they (the Christians) were also required to come with their closest relatives to their Nasab, and they have feared for them which they do not have for other (non-relatives) . And that was the reason they quit from the Mubahila as they knew that he (pbuh) was on truth so if had done mubahila its curse would fall on them and their family. In fact many a times a person have fear for his child which he does not have for himself .”[Al-Minhaj (5/23-24)] The hadith i quoted from Al Bukhari mentions how the other side feared for their own offsprings. # However, Going via the text documented by Muslim, we extract these: Your problem is you just pick up one narration that supports your claim and throw the remaining out, what Zaid stated in all the saheeh hadith is unambiguous, it's very easy to understand. I seriously don't know why you'll have to follow zigzag manner just to prove your twisted ideology. The wives of the Prophet are his Ahl Bayt as proven from the Qur'an and Saheeh hadiths! 1 Like |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 7:51pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
Demmzy15: # Now you are beginning to think @underline. Fatima had been Nabi's daughter before he married any other wife (s) and likewise Ali had been his cousin since the day he (Ali) was born. So they were his "Ahl al-Bayt" already. So, why saying it again (and again) in this Mubahala incidence that, "these are my Ahl al-Bayt? # Also, incident of Mubahala happened in 10 A.H, meaning that all the 9-10 wives were already in his house, and they were by virtue of marriage bond part of the general Ahl al-Bayt. So why did he left them out of Mubahala selection when Allah says, "... and your WOMEN"? # Imagine, the tone of Qur'an has always been, "ya NISA'An Nabiyy - Oh WOMEN of Nabi". This (primarily), 90% refer to wives. And obviously it could also include " daughters". Why Fatima alone was selected and wives excluded despite the word "...and your WOMEN (NISA'ANA)"? Demmzy15: # Allahu Akbar! So, the closest to Nabi were those four souls. Not Aisha. # Now, Ibn Taymiyyah was trying to pull a stunt that there were those superior than Ali, Fatima, Hassan, and Hussein who were also closest to the Prophet! Unfortunately, our sheik did not attempt to bring out a single example. 1. Who among the "women of Nabi" is/was superior to Fatima, the leader of women of Paradise? 2. Who among the closest to Nabi is/was superior to Ali? Ibn Taymiyyah sensing the problem he has created for himself submit while contradicting his initial submission: "The verse of Mubahala was revealed in 10 A.H when delegations of Najran arrived. The Prophet, peace be upon him, had no other uncle other than al-Abbas then, al-Abbas was not among the early converts to Islam, and did not have the exclusive qualities of Ali. As for his (i.e the Prophet's) cousins, none of them was like Ali, and Ja'far had been killed before then". Source: Minhaj al-Sunnah al-Nabawiyah (Muasassat Qurtubah; 1st edition, 1406 H)[annotator: Dr. Muhammad Rashad Salih], vol. 1, P.126 # Of course whether anybody like it or not, the most beloved in the sight of Allah was Ali: Imam al-Tirmidhi documents Narrated Anas bin Malik: "There was a bird with the Prophet ( s), so he said: 'O Allah, send to me the most beloved of Your creatures to eat this bird with me.' So 'Ali came and ate with him." . English reference : Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3721 Arabic reference : Book 49, Hadith 4087 Grade : Hasan (Darus salam) https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/49 # This Hadith has too many shawahids to be graded "hasan" but all the same it does the job well. Ibn Taymiyyah displaying his pain and anger claimed the hadith to be "mawdoo (fabricated)" without offering a single reason Demmzy15: # Again, you have a choice in the two submissions: follow the Prophet or follow Zaid. So, if that was what Zaid meant that "wives, Abbas family, Aqeel family etc" were part of "Ahl al-Bayt" meant in "Hadith Thaqalain", then: # He has contradicted himself in yet another version of Hadith Thaqalain where he reported Nabi to have said, "my offsprings, the Ahl al-Bayt" # Then, he also contradicted himself where he declared that "wives of the prophet were not part of those Ahl al-Bayt". Here's the hadith: "...We said: Who are amongst the members of the household? Aren't the wives (of the Holy Prophet) included amongst the members of his house hold (Ahl al-Bayt)? Thereupon he said: NO, by Allah, a woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a certain period; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and to her people; the members of his household include his ownself and his kith and kin (who are related to him by blood) and for him the acceptance of Zakat is prohibited" Source: Sahih Muslim 2408 d. In-book reference: Book 44, Hadith 58. USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 31, Hadith 5923 # Zaid Ibn Arqam (ra) did not contradict Nabi or himself. He was distinguishing between "general Ahl al-Bayt" and "special Ahl al-Bayt" meant in Hadith Thaqalain. # So, the choice is yours. Until you continue on the main topic, I say keep your head down. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 7:56pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
^^^ double post. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Kaytixy: 10:33pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
AlBaqir:oga sorry I didn't insult anybody's family I only talked about how you albaqir has misled your children and pray for them for guidance and even you too. I continue to stand on my ground that's what you are. A kafir until you repent unto Allah SWA. 1 Like |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Kaytixy: 10:37pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
I know very well inn Sha Allah what it takes to call someone a kafir and the conditions around it. That's why I feel free to say that albaqir is a KAFIR and I don't have any fear about it inn Sha Allah. 1 Like |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Empiree: 10:51pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
Kaytixy:what makes someone a kafir and on what condition(s)? |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 2:46pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
AlBaqir: The Prophet's wives were from his Ahl El Bayt, this evident from the verse of the Qur'an you try to twist and turn and the ahadith. He included his wives as Ahl Bayt in other events, like the event of Ifk(I'm pretty sure if this event were to have happened to the one of the 4, you'll be jumping all around the thread mentioning it): “…So Allah’s Apostle got up (and addressed) the people an asked for somebody who would take revenge on ‘Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul then. Allah’s Apostle, while on the pulpit, said, “O Muslims! Who will help me against a man who has hurt me by slandering my family? By Allah, I know nothing except good about my family, and people have blamed a man of whom I know nothing except good, and he never used to visit my family except with me,” Tafsir Ibn Kathir # He also called his wives his Ahl Bayt in Saheeh Muslim, Book of Marriages: Anas said: I also saw the wedding feast of Zainab, and he (the Holy Prophet) served bread and meat to the people, and made them eat to their heart’s content, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent me to call people, and as he was free (from the ceremony) he stood up and I followed him. Two persons were left and they were busy in talking and did not get out (of the apartment). He (the Holy Prophet) then proceeded towards (the apartments of) his wives. He greeted with as-Salamu ‘alaikum to every one of them and said: Members of the household, how are you?? They said: Messenger of Allah, we are in good state ‘How do you find your family? He would say: In good state. I keep asking you this questions which you keep evadingb #According to your beliefs, your Imams were born perfect and infallible, so why do they require purification? #The subsequent verse made mention of; And remember (O you the members of the Prophet’s family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AlHikmah (i.e. Prophet’s Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Quran and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, WellAcquainted with all things. Qur’an 33:34 How many houses does Ali have for this to be recited? It’s an established fact that the Prophet’s wives had individual homes, can’t you reason along this lines? # Like I said earlier, wives and all children were included as general Ahl al-Bayt. Look at the case of Nabi Ibrahim you have quoted above, when it comes to Imamah/guidanceship, Allah restricted it to his " offsprings" alone, and even emphasised that "only the righteous ones" from his offsprings will be selected (al-Baqarah: 124). No doubt it'll be his offsprings of Prophet Ibrahim that'll be the Prophets and Imams, but that doesn't in any way affect or reduce the fact that his wife is a member. This is something you don't want to agree with in the case of Prophet Muhammad. None of your Imams came from a matrimonial relationship between a Prophet and his wife but from Ali. The case of the Prophet, it was explained how the “Rulership” of this Ummah is going to be: The Prophet (ﷺ ) said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number." The people asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ )! What do you order us (to do)?" He said, "Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship." Saheeh Bukhari # As for your other blabbings, I won't dignify you with a reply on that. As a full blown Rafidhi, you're programmed to believe that, so that's your cup of fura |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 2:49pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Empiree:Don't interfere, you've always confirmed what I've been saying all along. You're one of those who has empowered this guy on this forum, you keep defending him. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Empiree: 3:43pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Demmzy15:Perhaps you forgot about these verses Q49:10, Q3:103, Q9:17, Q59:10 And these ahadith Sahih bukhari 5718, Muslim 2586, 2699, 2732 Among others. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 4:16pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Empiree:You were quick to compare me with a khariji just because I said Imam AbdulQadr Jeelanee is a Sufi, but you're always there on issues concerning him even when it's an established fact that he has grudges against the Mothers of Believers! |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 4:19pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Demmzy15: @underline, laughing seriously. Na your papa open NL and Islam section. # Empiree? Defending me? On what? Anyway, my last message for you on our little "argument" up there is: 1. The evidences are before you just like it was before shaytan. He rejected the truth not only because of his arrogance but because of his hatred for Adam. 2. Try your best not to let emotions control your aql. If your close friends on NL did not advice you, I will again and again (even as usual you reply back with insult), arrogance and "foul-mouthing" to the extent of lying, is beginning to be part of your life against those you deem as your "enemies". If you continue with your copy past on Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida (salamullah alayhi), you will always see my responds. Until then, I wish you well. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Empiree: 4:40pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Demmzy15:I don't understand how you reasoned here. I don't think I mentioned khawarij. Are you paranoid  just because I said Imam AbdulQadr Jeelanee is a Sufi,Lol, I thought you said he's not sufi. You said he simply practised zuhd not sufism. You refused to answer my question (what's sufism)? . but you're always there on issues concerning him even when it's an established fact that he has grudges against the Mothers of Believers!Did I ever backed him anytime Shia insult sahaba or wives of nabi (saw). Don't know why you pretend me and albaqir did not debate on these issues before? |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 4:55pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Empiree: # If a neutral person see this statement, it will sound as if albaqir used to insult sahabah and wives of Nabi. Is that your intention truly? What I do that you guys cannot stomach is pointing to your revered documents where some of those sahabah were exposed of their Bid'ah and atrocities to the extent some of them confessed. # These are facts you can never deny. So, please try to state your comment in a clear term. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Empiree: 5:03pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
AlBaqir:that's why I avoided your name. Besides, you should understood better in this context without me elaborate. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 5:07pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
AlBaqir: Lol, coming from someone who claims to have respect, I seriously don't know why you'll have to mention my father. Oh!!! I've forgotten that when you Rafidhis have been wrecked in an intellectual discourse, you all go violent. My bad!!!! 1. The evidences are before you just like it was before shaytan. He rejected the truth not only because of his arrogance but because of his hatred for Adam. You're the Shaitan here because you refuse to accept the hard truth. You are rejecting not only because of your arrogance but because of your ignorance and hatred for Umm Mummineen. 2. Try your best not to let emotions control your aql. If your close friends on NL did not advice you, I will again and again (even as usual you reply back with insult), arrogance and "foul-mouthing" to the extent of lying, is beginning to be part of your life against those you deem as your "enemies". you need to take this advice for yourself, I'm clearly shows you're pained after mentioning my father. Amala, Ewedu, afonja etc are rhetorics all over Nairaland which everyone finds funny and amusing, no Yoruba gets annoyed when referred by this. And point out wherever I lied, that's the least you can do! If you continue with your copy past on Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida (salamullah alayhi), you will always see my responds. Until then, I wish you well. Why should I continue when you've tactically evaded and dodged all my points and questions? Please treat them before I go further, na you carry wahala come here by derailing the beautiful thread. Besides, I still have one more reply from your last post. So sit tight! |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 5:11pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Empiree: Did I mention you saying "khariji"? I didn't o, read my posts well! Did I ever backed him anytime Shia insult sahaba or wives of nabi (saw). Don't know why you pretend me and albaqir did not debate on these issues before? The truth is you're scared of telling him the truth, there's no other reason. You're scared of hurting him all because of "MUSLIM UNITY". He's your friend despite him harboring dangerous beliefs!!! |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Empiree: 5:34pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
^^^ Scared? . I have agreed and disagreed with him severally. What more should I do? . Wage war on him? . Perhaps you could see from his reply to me above. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 5:38pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Demmzy15: # Why would I hate her? For what? Perhaps in your fanatical view, these Sunni Imams too displayed their hatred of Aisha: 1. Imam Al-Tabari writes: Narrated ibn Abbas: His Statement {If you both (women) repent to Allah (swt), for your hearts have become CROOKED} means, "YOUR HEARTS HAVE DEVIATED. Your hearts have committed sins." Narrated Mujahid: "We used to think that his Statement (Your hearts have CROOKED) is an easy matter until we heared the Qirah of ibn Mas'ood (If you both (women) repent to Allah (swt), FOR YOUR HEARTS HAVE DEVIATED)." Narrated Qatadah: (Your hearts have become CROOKED) means your hearts have SWERVED. Narrated AlDahak: (Your hearts have become CROOKED) means, "(Your hearts have) DEVIATED." Narrated Sufyan (Al-Thawri): (Your hearts have become CROOKED) means "Your hearts have DEVIATED." Source: Tafsir Al-Tabari. Vol. 23, Pg. # 93 - 94 2. Imam Al-Qurtubi also writes: The Statement of Allah (swt) {If you both (women) repent to Allah (swt)} referring to Hafsah and A'isha upon repentance for what occurred from both in terms of swerving into opposition to what the Messenger of Allah (saw) loved. {Your hearts have become CROOKED} meaning, "(Your hearts have) DEVIATED AND SWERVED FROM THE HAQQ" and that what loving what the Prophet (saw) hated. Source: Al-Jami Al-Ahkam Al-Qur'aan. Vol. 21, Pg. # 83 As long as these kind of documents exist, why would anybody shout at people that quote such text verbatim, haters and abuser of Aisha? Demmzy15: # Aitete m'óle, olè nmo loko. * You only have two very weak points: 1. that Ayat tathir is in the context where Allah addressed the wives of Nabi, therefore they were Ahl al-Bayt that Allah had cleansed from evil 2. Opinion of Zaid Ibn Arqam. Those are the only reasonable points you keep on repeating and due responds were given. I don't need to continue repeating myself. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 5:50pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Empiree: # Two individuals who have declared albaqir a kafir have top the takfiri list so far. The retard AhluSunnah and one other Hausa guy. And I bet, if they should know me, its wajib upon them to kill me. # Waiting for the third retard to follow those two retards. So, that is what this boy expect you to do. # If exposing and revealing some of the bad deeds of unrepentant sahabah as documented in Sunni books, is what makes me kafir, albaqir will for ever being that. # I wonder where loving all sahabah and wives of Nabi at all cost makes one a Muslim/mu'min. And if we tell you that according to your documents, only Ali (together with his ahl) enjoyed that, you instantly smuggle "all sahabah" into it and pretend as if some of these sahabah did not take even the Prophet as enemy. # This is academic discussion. Emotion, blind loyalty and followership is not welcome. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 8:09pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
You can call my argument weak, I don't care but you've failed to: # Prove the wives of the Prophet weren't from his Ahl Bayt. #If your Imams were born pure and infallible, what's the point of purification? # the subsequent verse mentioned "houses", how many house does Ali have for the verse to be repeated in it? Even without the hadith of Zaid, there were other hadith I pasted which showed exclusively that his wives were from his Ahl Bayt. Besides the Qur'an mentioned it also which is sufficient!!! |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by AlBaqir(m): 9:08pm On Jul 26, 2017 |
Demmzy15: # I never argued the wives of Nabi weren't from his Ahl al-Bayt. I only argued they were not included among the Ahl al-Bayt selected in "Ayat tathir/Hadith kisa", " Ayat Mubahala", and "Hadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain". # There are too much sahih evidences you have blatantly denied. # Now, for the sake of argument, let's agree " Ayat tathir" was part of 28-34/35 and let's agree the wives were the ones being addressed. All those verses admonished and we can argue that the promise of purification is upon the conditions set in those admonitions: 1. O wives of Nabi, you are not like other women provided you fear Allah 2. Do you prefer the love of this world than Allah and His prophet? 3. If you commit indecency, your punishment will be doubled just like your reward will be doubled if you do it right. 4. Stay indoor and Do not display your finery like that of the days of ignorance. # This will simply means that only those who fulfill those admonitions righteously and adhere to it from the day of revelation till the time of death will be purified. # How does umm al-mu'minina Aisha (especially) fair in those conditions, during and after the demise of Nabi? Demmzy15: # Why does Nabi continue to make istighfar more than 70X in a day despite according to your tafasir of sura fatih:1 that Allah has forgiven all his future sins? # Is/Was Nabi not included himself amongst his "Ahl al-Bayt" that Allah intend to purify? # Purification, returning (Tawbah), can never ever be exhausted. The more you engage in acts of purification, the more you get close and closer to Allah. However, there is no limitation to this. # Like Imam al-Tabari said, "Ayat tathir" upon the Ahl al-Bayt is a special blessings for Allah purified them from EVIL. Demmzy15: # Ayat and hikma being revealed in the house of Ahl al-Bayt here means house of Nabi. Its a single house which comprises wives (in their own rooms), Ali and Fatima with their children in their own room and Nabi in his own room. All of them were living under the same roof. When you insist that Aqil, Jafar and Abbas families were part of " those Ahl al-Bayt mentioned in Hadith Thaqalain ", should we also say their houses which are away from Nabi's is also included? Demmzy15: # Obviously you have sensed the danger of Zaid's Hadith as in the second version he clearly declared " No, his wives are not from his Ahl al-Bayt". # So, clearly Zaid Ibn Arqam (ra) distinguished between general Ahl al-Bayt and specific ahl al-Bayt in connection with Hadith Thaqalain. NB: Believe it or not, there are evidences of lots of Tahrif (distortions) in both sahih Bukhari and Muslim when you compare old manuscript and new. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Demmzy15(m): 1:51pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
AlBaqir: # Ayat Tathir was revealed purposely for the wives, while the Prophet then included the Ahl el Kisa. # Ayat Mubahala was obviously referring to the offsprings of the Prophet who are also Ahl Bayt. # Hadith Thaqalain didn't negate the fact that the Prophet wives were his Ahl Bayt, Fatima wasn't included either. I provided a detailed explanation to the hadith of Zaid below. # Incident of Ifk, the Prophet categorically stated Aisha's from his Ahl Bayt. # There are too much sahih evidences you have blatantly denied. This should be the other way round, you're the one who's denying not me. # Now, for the sake of argument, let's agree " Ayat tathir" was part of 28-34/35 and let's agree the wives were the ones being addressed. All those verses admonished and we can argue that the promise of purification is upon the conditions set in those admonitions : There's nothing like sake of argument here, using the context it refers to the wives. # How does umm al-mu'minina Aisha (especially) fair in those conditions, during and after the demise of Nabi? This verse doesn't speak about infallible super humans or semi-divine individuals, it addresses normal human beings, wives, Allah knows that no human being is absolutely perfect, all of us sin in one way or another, however the wives of our Prophet (unlike other Prophets) are of a very special status so Allah has burden them with a heavier burden than other females, as long as the females addressed in the verse do their admost to adhere to the conditions, then Allah will purify them. Allah revealed similar verses about the Prophet and his Sahaba: [Remember how it was] when He caused inner calm to enfold you, as an assurance from Him, and sent down upon you water from the skies, so that He might PURIFY you thereby and free you from Satan's unclean whisperings and strengthen your hearts and thus make firm your steps. Qur'an 8:11 No sane mind would argue that the Sahaba are completely cleansed from the whisperings of Shaitan or that they don't sin. Same with verse 33:33, Allah revealed it about a group (wives in specific) that would sin in the future, Allah is All-Knowing, he was certainly aware of it, yet despite that (Him knowing that they are fallibles) he encouraged them to abide by the conditions. This means that sins committed by Hafsa, Maymunah, Umm Salamah, 'Aisha do not exclude her from the verse (especially not fitan like the Jamal war and 'Aisha till the end of her life - according to authentic narrations - regretted to have participated in the first place. Tawbah/repentance IS a sign of believers). # Why does Nabi continue to make istighfar more than 70X in a day despite according to your tafasir of sura fatih:1 that Allah has forgiven all his future sins? As for why the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) makes istighfar then the answer is easy, our mother 'Aishah has narrated to us why: Aisha reported that when Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) occupied himself in prayer, he observed such a (long) qiyam prayer that his feet were swollen. Aisha said: “Allah’s Messenger, you do this (in spite of the fact) that your earlier and later sins have been pardoned for you?” Thereupon, he said: “Aisha should I not prove myself to be a thanksgiving servant (of Allah)?” (Muslim) So it was a matter of adab with Allah, he did it out of shukr, how is that comparible to a man-made belief of the 'Isma/infallibility of 12 individuals who suddenly need the Prophet to pray for their purification yet they are supposed to be purified even before the creation of the universe?! Heck, the verse says CLEARLY in Arabic: INNAMA YUREEDULLAH "verily Allah WISHES/INTENDS to ..." and not "Allah has already purified you but Allah wants to upgrade your purification" this is your own interpretation that clashes with the language of the Arabs, the basis of the Qur'an! # Is/Was Nabi not included himself amongst his "Ahl al-Bayt" that Allah intend to purify? He was, but the verse is obviously about wives and THEIR obligations not the Prophet. # Ayat and hikma being revealed in the house of Ahl al-Bayt here means house of Nabi. Its a single house which comprises wives (in their own rooms), Ali and Fatima with their children in their own room and Nabi in his own room. All of them were living under the same roof. Does this even make sense to you? If it’s strictly for Ali and his family, it’s under one roof, one house. But houses refers to more than one home which signifies the homes of his wives. When you insist that Aqil, Jafar and Abbas families were part of " those Ahl al-Bayt mentioned in Hadith Thaqalain ", should we also say their houses which are away from Nabi's is also included? Hadith Thaqalain has nothing to do with the Ayat Tathir, stop mixing it up. They’re not connected. # Obviously you have sensed the danger of Zaid's Hadith as in the second version he clearly declared " No, his wives are not from his Ahl al-Bayt ". What danger? # Firstly, Zaid only distinguish what’s similar in every family. Your mother is from the Ahl Bayt of your father but she’s not related by blood to him. But your father cousins are his blood relation who might have some rights which your mother might not enjoy. # Secondly, Fatima wasn’t included in the hadith of Zaid but the Aqeel and the offsprings of Aqeel, offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. So it doesn’t support your position either. #Thirdly, the hadith can’t exist on its without taking others into consideration. The others are part of the same narration and event as Hadith-5923. Hadiths 5921, 5922, and 5923 are all abridged versions of Hadith 5920, which is the entire Hadith. So you can’t just pick one and throw out the remaining, that’s not how a student of knowledge behaves. Fourthly, Zaid wasn’t aware that the Prophet’s wives were also exempted from collecting charity which means the wives weren’t exempted from the hadith: Narrated with Sahih sanad From Ibn Abu Malika [narrated] that: Khaled Ibn Saeed sent a cow from the Sadaqah to Aisha, so she sent it back and said: We are the Aal of Muhammad(saw) the charity is not permissible for us .[This hadees(narration) is authentic. Which was even said by sheikh Abdul Muhsin bin Hammad Al-’Abbad Al-Badr in his book the status of Ahlebayt in the sight of Ahle Sunnah, page 12 ] This is evident which shows how Aisha(RadiAllaahu Anh) taught the Muslims after the death of the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam): Abu Musa al-Ash’ari said.”Whenever we (the Companions) of Prophet peace be upon him had any difficulty on hadeeth, of which we approached Aisha and (always) found that she had the knowledge of the hadith “.[SunanTirmidhi hadith no: 3883] NB: Believe it or not, there are evidences of lots of Tahrif (distortions) in both sahih Bukhari and Muslim when you compare old manuscript and new. I guess you're admitting your failure already, your era of deceiving Muslims on Nairaland is over. See excuse abeg, FriendNG!!! |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by FriendNG: 2:43pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Demmzy15: This one is 1 blow million die. Dem carry issue about people of Janna for head dey discriminate between them. |
| Re: Imam Ali Ibn Musa Al Rida (rahimahullâh) - Imam Of Sunnah by Kaytixy: 8:34am On Jul 29, 2017 |
FriendNG:I have already said it albaqir has nothing to offer if not for the sake of the other Muslims that he might misguide wallah I he is not worth arguing with. Demzy15 has finished work on him. I'm sure he has gone to look for his ship friend to come and help him or maybe his partner emperee 2 Likes 2 Shares |
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