The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 6:53pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
Amby: Girlfriend you haven't seen my muscles yet. I aint even warmed up.  However, it's interesting that you refer to righteous indignations as "flexing muscle". On reading this I was filled with anger, because what catholics do in praying to Mary is IDOLATRY. God is a jealous God. He truly hates idol worship. It is the equivalent of FORNICATION. This is what catholics practise when they pray to Mary instead of God himself. And is IS NONSENSE! Too say the least! It is ABOMINATION! Amby: Amby: I don't understand your line of reasoning here, but a good point to note is Jesus' response to Mary's request for this miracle. Did He not say "IT IS NOT YET MY TIME?" If she was so in tune with the spirit, why did she not know this? Why did she request a miracle out of divine timing? She was just a woman my dear. Correct your actions. Amby: It sounds like you have more questions than you do answers. That's as good as a confession of error. No one is disregarding Mary's important role in the divine conception. The contention is that she is the mother of God. She is NOT! If you have scripture to prove to me that she is, I look forward to it expectantly. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 6:55pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
Amby: Girlfriend you haven't seen my muscles yet. I aint even warmed up. However, it's interesting that you refer to righteous indignation as "flexing muscle". On reading this I was so filled with anger, because what catholics do in praying to Mary is IDOLATRY. God is a jealous God. He truly hates idol worship. It is the equivalent of FORNICATION. This is what catholics practise when they pray to Mary instead of God himself. And it IS NONSENSE to say the least! It is ABOMINATION! Amby: I don't understand your line of reasoning here, but a good point to note is Jesus' response to Mary's request for this miracle. Did He not say "IT IS NOT YET MY TIME?" If she was so in tune with the spirit, why did she not know this? Why did she request a miracle out of divine timing? She was just a woman my dear. Correct your actions. Amby: It sounds like you have more questions than you do answers. That's as good as a confession of error. No one is disregarding Mary's important role in the divine conception. The contention is that she is the mother of God. She is NOT! If you have scripture to prove to me that she is, I look forward to it expectantly. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Bobbyaf(m): 6:58pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
I am astonished that there are people that actually raise this question: “Should one or should one not call the Blessed Virgin the Mother of God”? Because if Our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how could the Virgin who gave birth to Him not be the Mother of God? Well yes she was Jesus's mother, and Jesus is God, but the motive behind calling her the mother of God is far different for the RCC. In fact they have tied all that in with calling her the queen of heaven. Is it any surprise that the RCC teaches that we must pray to Mary the "mother of God"? Isn't it a fact that the RCC teaches about the assumption of Mary, meaning that she did not see death and is now in heaven acting as an intercessor? This is the belief that has been passed down to us by the Holy Apostles, even if they did not use this specific term. This is the teaching that we have received from the Holy Fathers, And who were these holy fathers may I ask? The Blessed Virgin is truly the Mother of God since she supernaturally gave birth to the Christ, the Savior, who has taken on our flesh and our blood, and who on the human level, comes from the same substance as His Mother and ourselves. Which leads me to ask of you. Was Mary a sinner? Was she born in sin and shapen in iniquity? The RCC leadership doesn't believe so. Fellow Nairalanders, what do you think? Mary was a chosen vessel for the birth of Jesus, God's Son. No where does scripture stress the importance of Mary, or nowhere does it stress the need for us to be calling her the mother of God. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 7:07pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
Thank you BobbyAf! |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Bobbyaf(m): 7:18pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
You're most welcome Trini_Girl. Good to have you back. Always look forward to your posts.  |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by lafile(m): 7:22pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
And she didn't die a virgin as you are wont to believe. And she didn't ascend to heaven according to Pius XII [Encyclical Munificentissimus Deus 1950] |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by shahan(f): 7:34pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@Amby, Amby: Could I ask you a few questions: Read Mark 3:35 again - "For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. " 1. Do you do the will of the God? 2. If you do the will of God, what does Jesus say that makes you? 3. If Jesus says you are His brother/sister/mother because you do God's will, then does that make you: (a) brother of GOD? (b) sister of GOD: or, (c) mother of GOD? 4. If you can't give straight answers to those questions, then are you being led? |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by shahan(f): 7:38pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@babaearly, babaearly: When you try to divide between "Almighty God" and "Mighty God", how many "Gods" does that leave you? Second, did Jesus speak of a separate glory from that of the Father in the NT? Sample this: "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5). |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Nobody: 9:29am On Feb 13, 2007 |
lafile: ThankYou Brother We have hadenough of the deceptions!! |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Grouppoint(m): 12:06pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
But what exactly is the importance of calling Mary the 'Mother of God'? In so doing, the catholic church would have succeeded in stating that God had a begining, and an end. Amby, do You understand that Mary has been declared 'Co-redemptrix' . Meaning that She co-redeemed humanity along with Christ. Do you understand the import of that Catholic doctrine? |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Tonee: 11:37am On Feb 14, 2007 |
hello dear brothers in Christ, i have patiently read through the thread and i believe that we're all going round in circles, permit me to ask whats the difference between saying Mary the mother of Jesus Christ and Mary the mother Of God. if we accept that Jesus Christ is God, then whats the argument |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Tonee: 11:39am On Feb 14, 2007 |
hello dear brothers in Christ, i have patiently read through the thread and i believe that we're all going round in circles, permit me to ask whats the difference between saying Mary the mother of Jesus Christ and Mary the mother Of God. if we accept that Jesus Christ is God, then whats the argument |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 12:06pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Tonee: good question, and if you would be open to a "sister" giving you an answer it is this:- Although Jesus Christ is a part of the God head, and has been restored to his rightful place at the right hand of God, when he became flesh, he became as man. Being tempted in all manner but without sin, to fulfil divine purpose. Therefore he was the son of man physically but the son of God spiritually. So his earthly mother Mary, can be said to be his BIOLOGICAL mother, as he was ON EARTH ie mother of Jesus, but in absouletly no way was she ever responsible or a steward over his SPIRIT man. Mother of the flesh, not mother of the spirit. After the resurrection all earthly ties to his maternal mother were broken! She was no longer his mother, but a disciple, a follower. She has always been a vessel of honour used for God's purpose, no contention there. But if you call her the mother of God (as in God the father, God the son and the Holy Spirit) you might as well go further to say that she was the wife of Jehovah!  God has no mother! He is spirit. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Nobody: 12:36pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Thank you Trini Girl. I hope those church going catholics would reason with their heart not the head this time. Enough of the deception. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by lafile(m): 12:49pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Like i said, you can only be the mother of someone that was formed inside you. God (a Spirit) was definitely not formed inside mary. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Tonee: 1:44pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
THIS IS 4 TRINI GIRL, REAL SMART REPLY, BUT THAT SUGGESTE YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAIINST MY CALLING THE VIRGIN MARY, THE MOTHER OF JESUS CHRIST THEN? |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Tonee: 1:52pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you Trini Girl. I hope those church going catholics would reason with their heart not the head this time. Enough of the deception.[quote][/quote] well well well babaearly, you certainly don't sound like one that goes to church at all. your getting all personal. i advice that you choose your words carefully. and make reasonable contributions rather than attack personalities, come to think of it i don't even think you have a heart, cause if you do you'd have used it before posting your last thread.  |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by TV01(m): 1:53pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Hebrews 7:3 - without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life The Bible says! God bless |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Tonee: 1:56pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Like i said, you can only be the mother of someone that was formed inside you. God (a Spirit) was definitely not formed inside mary. hi lafile, i want to believe your the son of your mother right? and for Christ's sake you do have a body annnnnnd a spirit, its called yyour soul! |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by lafile(m): 2:45pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
@ Tonee like my spirit had a conscious existence before i was born. God had a conscious existence before Jesus was born. TV01: And I think TV01 finalised the issue. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Tonee: 3:23pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Well house, how does Jesus was nourished by sucking mother Mary's breast sound? |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 4:11pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Tonee: Well Tonee I think Mary's virginity was short lived after all, she was a married woman!  However that she was the maternal mother of Jesus Christ is a statement of fact. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 4:17pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
Tonee: actually, made in the image and likeness of the God head, father, son and holy ghost, we are body, spirit AND soul. They are separate but function as one. Tonee: hey, Jesus needed milk too! |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by shahan(f): 7:28pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
@Amby, The question as to the logic of calling Mary the "Mother of God" still begs answers. I wonder why you Amby and co have been silent on that? If it makes for good logic to call Mary the "mother of God" because Jesus is God, then why does the same logic not apply to the idea of calling Catholic women "mothers of God" or "brothers/sisters of God" as Jesus said of those in Mark 3:35? Perhaps, the same logic does not apply in the case of Mark 3 if these debaters are not so sure if they're doing the will of God. Another way of looking at it: Since Jesus died on the Cross, did "God" die on the Cross for you, Amby? As there is no Scripture remotely suggesting the concept of "GOD" dying on the Cross; so there is no defence whatsoever for calling Mary the "Mother of God". The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, and not in one verse of the entire volume of God's Word was Mary addressed as "Mother of God". To confess Mary as such is clearly to imply that she gave birth to GOD - which is never supposed in the Bible. However, everywhere the birth of Jesus is mentioned, it is in reference to His incarnation and humanity and not to His deity. The confession of Mary as the "mother of GOD" fails to recognize the Humanity of Jesus; and because His Humanity expresses the Incarnation (both the conception and birth) of Jesus, so Mary is often called the "mother of Jesus" in the Bible. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Amby: 11:43am On Feb 15, 2007 |
shahan (f) @Amby, Shahan, the issue about Mary, the Mother of God, has nothing to do with logic. It's scriptural if one is willing to deduce facts from the words of the scripture and as well be atuned to the Holy Spirit for a proper guide and understanding. If you have gone through the entire thread, you will recall portion I cited where Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit said in a loud voice, "You are the most blessed of all women, and blessed is the child you will bear! Why should this great thing happen to me, that my Lord's mother comes to visit me? (Lk 1:41-43). I have asked severally from those who do not see her (Mary) as the mother of God, (because, according to them, "the scripture did not say so" to give clear difference between Lord and God in the hope that they will open their spiritual eyes to the words of the scripture and deduce for themselves the fact that she (Mary) is indeed the mother of God as she was addressed by Elizabeth.I will now refer you to the numerous portions of the Bible where Lord is referred to as God. Poor and humble people will once again find the happiness which the Lord, the Holy God of Israel, gives (Isaiah 29:19). Isaiah 29:22 - So now the Lord, the God of Israel, Isaiah 30:15 - The Sovereign Lord, the holy God of Israel, Now go to the following Bible portions; Isaiah 36:7; Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 3:22,23; Ezekiel 20:33; Daniel 9:10,14,15 ; Hosea 12:9; Joel 1:14; Amos 6:14; Jonah 1:9; Micah 7:7; Nahum 1:2; Habakkuk 1:12; Zephaniah 3:17; Haggai 1 :12; Zechariah 6:15; Malachi 2:16. I believe the above portions will clear every misconception concerning Lord and God. For your other questions, i refer you to Malachi 3:5 (The Lord Almighty says, "I will apear among you to judge and I will testify at once against adulterers, against those who give false testimony, those who cheat employee out of their wages, and those who take advantage of widows, orphans and foreigners - against all who do not respect me". Jesus came to show us the way to salvation. Even though He came in human form, He did not loose His divinity. he shed His blood to wash away our sins and resurrected to show us that even if we die in Him we shall live. He is the way to salvation; He is the truth we seek and He is the life everlasting we all desire. Reflect, God will guide you. Regards. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 12:44pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
Amby: The Lord IS God. There is no questioning that. However, the question as to Mary being the mother of God has been answered. It is folly! Amby you are mislead by one misinterpreted scripture verse where Elizabeth declared that Marry was carrying the Messiah. Consider the following scriptures: Luke 1 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. . . . . .So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Luke 1: 39 - 43 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy." How did Elizabeth know that Mary was carrying the Lord/God? It was a revelation by the Spirit of God. Elizabeth by the spirit knew that Mary was carrying the human incarnate of God the spirit! Please explain to me how the creation (Mary) suddenly becomes the creator? How does flesh and blood give birth to spirit  If you focus on the purpose of the incarnation of Christ coming in the form of fallable flesh you will understand that Mary was simply a chosen vessel. In earthly terms of course she was the mother of the incarnate Messiah Jesus Christ. But again, how do you justify calling flesh the creator (mother) of God the spirit It makes no sense! Flesh gives birth to flesh; spirit gives birth to spirit. Let me take it further, if Mary was also the spiritual mother of the spirit of the begotten son (since spirit gives birth to spirit), then we shouldn't call him the son of God, but the son of Mary! Is there anywhere in scripture that refers to him, even ONCE as the son of Mary? Please! And if certain people would step out of their holier than thou inherently catholic condescension, and stop talking about being atuned to the Holy Spirit when they obviously are not, they will see the simple truth, and not use one misinterpreted revelation of the Holy Spirit to a woman who was shown the truth as justification for practising idolatry. That truth being that a part of the triune God head had lessened himself to be contained in corruptible flesh for a season, just to give us the opportunity to redeem ourselves to, and our relationship with Him, which was our initial purpose. In the same manner catholics misuse another revalation of the Holy Spirit and replace it with flesh:- Matthew 16: 27-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Is Peter the rock that Christ has built his church on? I'm sure Amby will say yes. But a proper contextual and "atuned" interpretation would reveal that as Jesus said "flesh and blood didn't reveal this to you but my Father in heaven" meaning God, the Lord, the Spirit, the Rock would be either or both the gift of revelation and the solid rock on which we stand. God the Father! Anyway that's off topic, but we see the trend of error:- 1. Mary the creation being deified as being God's mother (flesh and blood giving birth to spirit) 2. Peter a disciple being deified as a saint and the foundation of the christian church (flesh and blood being praised above the spirit) Hence, the idols (statues) of both and the worship and repititous prayers said to the "Blessed Virgin" Mary and "Saint Peter" |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by shahan(f): 12:59pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@Amby, Amby: Precisely my point - please give me the one verse that refers to Mary as the Mother of God. As far as this discussion goes, you haven't given one verse for this belief, and any other you quote has been used to arrive at your logic to insert what is not there. Amby: Why then have you been silent to the rejoinders stating the difference and still pushing this logic? At least, a few people clearly delineated the implications and asked you questions - you were completely silent on them; and yet you're begging for answers to what you haven't been able to answer. Amby: And how does this bring about Mary as the Mother of God? Or, let me ask it this way: By the same inference, is it okay to call Mary the ~~ mother of God Almighty? (Gen. 48:3 & Ruth 1:21) mother of the Most High God? (Gen. 14:18 & 22) mother of Jehovah? (Exo. 6:3) Amby: And how does that answer my questions? Please refer again and provide straight forward answers. Cheers. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 5:57pm On Feb 16, 2007 |
hah! Amby is silenced as her folly has been exposed! |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by shahan(f): 10:57am On Feb 17, 2007 |
Maybe not - perhaps busy with some other things. It would be interesting to read his/her answers to the answers people ahve asked. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by 4getme1(m): 10:53pm On Feb 18, 2007 |
@trini_girl, You might not be far wrong. The argument that Amby puts forward is untenable when pursued to its logical ends. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by Amby: 3:49pm On Feb 19, 2007 |
trini_girl (f) shahan (f) 4get_me (m) Hi you all! I have been quite busy with some other things. But I will have to draw this topic to its end even though I know you have taken your stand on what you want to belief but I advise you keep your mind open and allow God to lead you as you study the scripture and live the life Jesus called us to live. There is God; the father (almighty God), God; the Son (Jesus Christ) and God; the Holy Spirit. If you believe in the above, you will then understand that God is a family name (surname/last name) for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is God; the Son and virgin Mary is the mother of God, the son. Jesus Christ is God and hence Mary is the mother of God. Am not arguing with you but am only letting you know the truth I have known about the mediatrix power of Mary in ensuring that all her children (christians) are not lost but have grace enormous to follow the teachings of her son, Jesus Christ and overcome the world. Honor her, she is the mother of God. Regards. |
| Re: The Mother Of God. What Do You Think? by trinigirl1(f): 4:31pm On Feb 19, 2007 |
Amby:Amby, I understand this is what you believe, however, please consider the scriptural evidence that has shown that your belief is sincere, but sincerely wrong? I'm disappointed that you did not even attempt to scripturally validate your belief after showing you evidence that mary was just a vessel chosen to do god's work. So "God" has now been reduced to a family/surname. Therefore the trinity is Jesus Christ God, Holy Spirit God, and God God So I guess we should call her Blessed Virgin Mary GodDo you really believe what your posting here? Have you read my submission that flesh gives birth to flesh and sprit gives birth to spirit, therefore Mary gave birth to the human incarnate of God, but not God himself? Even without "spiritually discerning" this, it's logically impossible! And please, since when did Mary become a mediator for the souls of man This Catholic religion, my god, the romans really did a good job at twisting everything pure about the gospel.I would be convinced that Mary is the mother of God if you show me scripture that proves her "mediatrix" power that you claim to have "known" about. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and[b] one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus[/b] John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Amby, Jesus is more than able to be our mediator, since he knows the weakness of flesh Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. I compel you to consider that following religion brings no reward, since obviously it blinds you from the truth resident in the gospel of Christ. Regards. |
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