okunoba:

Ironsi 4 sure, he set a bad precedence by introducing military dictatorship to the country and his actions or rather in action led to the present day division and mistrust amongst the ethnic groups.

I shudder to think that a military ruler who was assasinated in office would be listed by you, and condemned for his actions and inactions after just 6 months in office?

No wonder, if Ironsi was the worst according to your biased analysis, then I see you jubliating with his killers that were supposed to be protecting him. If you do, how does that make us move forward as a country?

Ever wondered why Ogundipe did not replace Ironsi as the next in rank?

naijaking1:

I shudder to think that a military ruler who was assasinated in office would be listed by you, and condemned for his actions and inactions after just 6 months in office?

No wonder, if Ironsi was the worst according to your biased analysis, then I see you jubliating with his killers that were supposed to be protecting him. If you do, how does that make us move forward as a country?

Ever wondered why Ogundipe did not replace Ironsi as the next in rank?

The criticism was of his dethroning the civilian regime, and subsequent failure to execute the coup plotters.
If Ironsi had not seized power, and had he executed the failed coup plotters (like he should have under military justice), the civil war, and the antecedent pogrom, would likely have been adverted.
Subsequent governments have shown that you dont need more than a few days to execute coup plotters. Six months was too much time.

Yar'Adua

Thank you!

IBB sold Nigeria to EVERLASTING identure and is living on loot that will last his family 6 generations.

OBJ saved us from the identure with the help of Okonjo-Iweala.

@sagamite,
if ibb did all that, what did obj do to him when he was fighting corruption in nigeria? the same obj made us to understand that abacha was the only corrupt past president. what do u think of a president who protected past corrupt leaders? if okonjo iweala was part of the developing mentality of the regime, why was she forced out of the group? where else do u see winning teams replaced? what do u think of a man who removed a well placed woman of great qualities and innovetions?
from these two names u mentioned above, the protection obj's administration gave ibb and the shameful removal of a woman of honour, u can easily know that evil was the identity of the regime.

Worst? IBB for institutionalizing corruption and annulling the freest and fairest election ever held in Nigeria. An election where Nigerians voted for candidates irrespective of religion and ethnicity.

@afam,
if ibb did what u say, what did obj do to him? what name do u give to a man who protect criminals? why did obj single out abacha for persecution among other past rulers of nigeria? don't u smell a rat there?

@topic,
in our nigeria, there is only one man who had the opportunity of ruling nigeria as a military and as a civilian. this same man is the only one who must have had the opportunity of ruling nigeria two tenures of democratically arranged terms of 8yrs. this man has no comparism and this man has no reason for the present situation of poor infrastructures and good governance. the wickedness and wealth madness of our politicians skyrocketed betwenn 1999 till date courtsy of this same man.
the massacre of two different communities and the untraced killing of a serving attorney general of the federation as well as other politicians can not be compared with any other.
the unpunished show of shame displayed in anambra by the pdp as was protected by obasanjo can never find a definition in the political dictionary.
if anyone has reasons to talk corruption in any administration other than obj's, i will be on hand to mention ribadu, el rufai, late adedibu, tony annenih, chris uba etc as official thugs hired and paid by funds belonging to the masses.
the dark nature of nig today has been regreted by obj himself as a failure of his administration.
if 8 yrs is not enough to fix power supply problem in nigeria, it means we are born to die suffering.

biina:

The criticism was of his dethroning the civilian regime, and subsequent failure to execute the coup plotters.
If Ironsi had not seized power, and had he executed the failed coup plotters (like he should have under military justice), the civil war, and the antecedent pogrom, would likely have been adverted.
Subsequent governments have shown that you dont need more than a few days to execute coup plotters. Six months was too much time.

Was it Ironsi that that organised the january coup How did he dethrone the then civilian regime

biina:

The criticism was of his dethroning the civilian regime, and subsequent failure to execute the coup plotters.
If Ironsi had not seized power, and had he executed the failed coup plotters (like he should have under military justice), the civil war, and the antecedent pogrom, would likely have been adverted.
Subsequent governments have shown that you dont need more than a few days to execute coup plotters. Six months was too much time.

The content in bold refers, how did you come about the execution of coup plotters as military justice?

Information like this continues to be presented without paying attention to details.

The coup was the first coup in Nigeria under a civilian government. Under a civilian government who would execute the coup plotters? The civilian government?

We should have respects for facts and try to understand what happened rather than making blanket and sometimes very wrong statements.

biina:

Ironsi - he shouldnt have taken over power.

If i may ask who should have taken power at that time after the coup?

asha 80:

Was it Ironsi that that organised the january coup How did he dethrone the then civilian regime

The Nzeogwu led coup failed to seize power, and it was Ironsi that took control from the senate president led Civilian regime.
Ironsi was not elected into office, he took over.

asha 80:


If i may ask who should have taken power at that time after the coup?

The Senate President and acting President of the republic, Dr. Abyssinia Nwafor Orizu, and it was him who handed over the reins of government to Ironsi. Ironsi could have declined.

biina:

The Nzeogwu led coup failed to seize power, and it was Ironsi that took control from the senate president led Civilian regime.
Ironsi was not elected into office, he took over.

biina:

The Senate President and acting President of the republic, Dr. Abyssinia Nwafor Orizu, and it was him who handed over the reins of government to Ironsi. Ironsi could have declined.

The Nzeogwu coupists were stopped by someone.Who was that?Was that the senate?You think the senate has or had any mouth or clouth in a coup

Where in the world have you seen a coup where the coupist whether succesful or not that the power was immediately handed over to a civillian

Okay let us say Ironsi should not have taken over,who should have taken over?

Afam:

The content in bold refers, how did you come about the execution of coup plotters as military justice?

Information like this continues to be presented without paying attention to details.

The coup was the first coup in Nigeria under a civilian government. Under a civilian government who would execute the coup plotters? The civilian government?

We should have respects for facts and try to understand what happened rather than making blanket and sometimes very wrong statements.

The coup plotters  were mutineers, who intentionally killed their superior officers and were also guilty of treason. Hence, under military law anywhere in the world (except until recent in countries where the death penalty has been abolished), were punishable by death. The coup plotter should have faced a military tribunal, and should have been shot.

asha 80:


The Nzeogwu coupists were stopped by someone.Who was that?Was that the senate?You think the senate has or had any mouth or clouth in a coup

Where in the world have you seen a coup where the coupist whether succesful or not that the power was immediately handed over to a civillian

Okay let us say Ironsi should not have taken over,who should have taken over?

Was it not Ironsi's job to stop the coup plotters or is not his duty to protect the nation from threats abroad and within?
Was Ironsi not under the authority of the president and prime minister?
Or do you want to classify Ironsi as a coupist, cos he cannot be both. While key figures were killed, there was still a civilian government in place until Ironsi took over.
Ironsi did his job by stopping the coup, and should have done the right thing and declined power. Do not try to legalize an illegality.

biina:

Was it not Ironsi's job to stop the coup plotters or is not his duty to protect the nation from threats abroad and within?
Was Ironsi not under the authority of the president and prime minister?
Or do you want to classify Ironsi as a coupist, cos he cannot be both. While key figures were killed, there was still a civilian government in place until Ironsi took over.
Ironsi did his job by stopping the coup, and should have done the right thing and declined power. Do not try to legalize an illegality.

You have not yet answered my question.Where have you seen a coup whether succesful or not power is being handed over immediately to a civilian government that was about or was toppled?This is reality here not idealism.Do you know the level of tension and uncertainty immediately after a coup?

You think say na beans?A coup where a serving prime minister has just being assasinated?Power should just be left for the civilians?I laugh.My guy face reality and not ideal situation.

ibb.

asha 80:

You have not yet answered my question.Where have you seen a coup whether succesful or not power is being handed over immediately to a civilian government that was about or was toppled?This is reality here not idealism.Do you know the level of tension and uncertainty immediately after a coup?

You think say na beans?A coup where a serving prime minister has just being assasinated?Power should just be left for the civilians?I laugh.My guy face reality and not ideal situation.

I dont get your point. Are you calling Ironsi a coup plotter?
Secondly, there was no question of handing over power to a civilian government as they were still in power until Ironsi took over. There was an acting president that handed over power to Ironsi. The death of some individuals does not end a civilian government.

As to your questions (though I dont see their relevance)
1. A coup plotter wants to seize power, so if successful, he will not hand over power to another. The Nzeogwu led coup failed, so this does not apply.
2. If the coup plotters failed, they do not have any power to hand over, and thus the question is moot
3. It is shameful that you would suggest that the assassination of the prime minister was justifiable excuse for the military to seize power, particularly when the act was orchestrated by a handful of officers. I wonder why the US Army didnt seize power after JFK was assassinated? 
That you think 'power should be left for civilians' hints that you feel it belongs to the military and that the choice was theirs.

marvix:

Sagamite, Umarus achievements include
1.Respect for the rule of law and the judiciary, up until Yaraduas tenure we had started to 4get dat a courts decision is final

What respect for the rule of law? By giving obviously corrupt people protection?

Where was the rule of law when Ridabu was being dragged away from a graduation ceremony? Where was the rule of law when Yarafool is sick and incapacitated but did not follow reasonable process to ensure the country continues to run efficiently?

marvix:

2.Transparency in government.

What transparency? Probably we can't see it because nothing is being done as evrything is in slow motion so not only is the wrapper transparent but the contents too.

marvix:

3.Improved electoral process even witout an amended electoral act.

What improved electroral process? In Ekiti?

Any which way, this is void because improvement is gradual. So you can not castigate OBJ for not having a perfect election as it takes time to achieve such in a society used to the rigging. It is a learning and adjust process that Yaradua is benefiting from. You can only give Yarafool props if he unarguably accelerated the improvements. He has not done such.

marvix:

4.Better engagement with labour unions and wholistically and sincerly resolvin disputes.

Finally.

marvix:

5.Independence and Seperation of powers in the diff arms and levels of govt

Another one.

marvix:

6.Freedom of d press.

Was their no freedom of the press under OBJ?

marvix:

7.Improved road network, Benin lagos rd as an example.

Has this road been done because I don't know?

One example is not good enough for me. Are you saying Nigerian roads are now up to scratch?

marvix:

8.Reduction in corruption as evident in the reduced scale of scandals as was d usual practice in d past.

Maybe. But he has established untouchables despite massive evidence against them e.g. Ibori, someone who is being prosecuted in London.

Atiku taking bribe from US. Halliburton bribe that has been silenced.

Apart from Bode George, I can't recall any other high profile prosecution.

So he is not particularly doing a good job.

marvix:

@Alxmyr Umaru shld not be considered for d worst he is beta dan Obj,IBB nd Abacha and his tenure is yet to end. Let d parameters be d same mayb u shld just wait 4 him to preside ova d conduct of d 2011 elections den compare wit d 2003 elections

He is becoming the most ineffective. His hand brakes are permanently on, no progress no regress.

And he just insulted Nigerians with his disappearance. So much for "due process".

1. IBB: that gap toothed demon effectively fermented our already tainted and corrupt psyches and glorified stealing in government and corporate circles alike. He embraced 419ers, sponsored drug pushers and designed the blueprint for political assassinations with dele giwa's murder. In the end everybody thought it was and still thinks its cool to steal, kids in secondary school use their pocket money to do yahoo yahoo, girls took prostitution to new heights with millions of girls now into it full time or to augment their meager earnings.

2. Obasanjo IBB's BOSS): this incestuous beast served as lackey to the caliphate in 1979 and returned in 1999 to protect their ''heritage'' by agreeing to be ''appointed''president. 1999 was the most crucial year in our history as it was an opportunity to start afresh after abacha and he made sure it was wasted by dragging us back to 1993. Before this hedonistic slug took ghana-must-go bags to bribe the national assembly in 1999 nigerians were scared to embezzle because we wanted a change.when he did that evrybody knew it was biz as usual and voila! back to square one.

okunoba:

Ironsi 4 sure, he set a bad precedence by introducing military dictatorship to the country and his actions or rather in action led to the present day division and mistrust amongst the ethnic groups.

true talk omoluabi

A coup where a serving prime minister has just being assasinated?Power should just be left for the civilians?I laugh.My guy face reality and not ideal situation.

umm yeah? Agunyi Ironsi placed himself in a lose-lose situation. His taking power led to the politicization of the Nigerian army (not that the process hadn't already begun).

bawomolo:

umm yeah? Agunyi Ironsi placed himself in a lose-lose situation. His taking power led to the politicization of the Nigerian army (not that the process hadn't already begun).

In his defence, I think he was dealing with the unknown.

We are all talking out of hindsight, he was dealing with precedence.

I can only fault him for not executing the coup plotters, who despite their ideals brutally killed people they should not have killed.

Sagamite:

In his defence, I think he was dealing with the unknown.

We are all talking out of hindsight, he was dealing with precedence.

I can only fault him for not executing the coup plotters, who despite their ideals brutally killed people they should not have killed.

where is afam who has been defending ironsi to come and see the blunder committed by ironsi by not killing the coupist.i thankGod for finally seeing somebody thinking like me on this issue.thanks sagamite

biina:

The criticism was of his dethroning the civilian regime, and subsequent failure to execute the coup plotters.
If Ironsi had not seized power, and had he executed the failed coup plotters (like he should have under military justice), the civil war, and the antecedent pogrom, would likely have been adverted.
Subsequent governments have shown that you dont need more than a few days to execute coup plotters. Six months was too much time.

I was going to shout at the top of my voice when I suddenly saw how ignorant you are about the events of that era.
FYI, Ironsi did not dethrone the civilian regime, the first coup plotters did. Your position is a false association of Ironsi(who was himself running for dear life) with the first coupist, many of who were Igbos.
Failure to execute the coup plotters? You should know that they had been arrested, detained and facing the judicial process when Ironsi himself was assasinated.

IBRAHIM GBADOMOSI BABAGINDA !!!!!!!!!!!

For me all the presidents that took IMF loans and did nothing with it to build Nigeria (well they kept the money in their pockets) are the worst (Buhari, IBB and Abacha).

Out of all these 3 IBB did the worst damage to Nigeria. I will explain. If you are interested please read this link on IMF loans and SAP (Structural Adjustment Progmamme) - http://www.whirledbank.org/development/sap.html
IMF loans are like taking credit from loan sharks with detrimental and unacceptable interest on these loans. The loans have negative conditions/programmes which does not allow the country to develop in anyway (mordern day slavery we were sold into by our equally wicked leaders).

I quote from the link - [b]"SAPs generally require countries to devalue their currencies against the dollar; lift import and export restrictions; balance their budgets and not overspend; and remove price controls and state subsidies. Devaluation makes their goods cheaper for foreigners to buy and theoretically makes foreign imports more expensive. In principle it should make the country wary of buying expensive foreign equipment. In practice, however, the IMF actually disrupts this by rewarding the country with a large foreign currency loan that encourages it to purchase imports. Balancing national budgets can be done by raising taxes, which the IMF frowns upon, or by cutting government spending, which it definitely recommends. As a result, SAPs often result in deep cuts in programmes like education, health and social care, and the removal of subsidies designed to control the price of basics such as food and milk. So SAPs hurt the poor most, because they depend heavily on these services and subsidies. By devaluing the currency and simultaneously removing price controls, the immediate effect of a SAP is generally to hike prices up three or four times, increasing poverty to such an extent that riots are a frequent result".[/b]

For example, look at how the currency of Nigeria started dropping in the exchange market. it all happened in 1985/1986 when IBB started implementing SAP due to IMF loans he has taken and pocketed (he didnt use any of it to develop Nigeria). These SAP implementations killed Nigeria off in the international market and literarily crippled us from any development.

See link here (look for the exchange rate history) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_naira#Exchange_rate_history

Obj (even though i am not keen on him) made Nigeria the first African country to pay off their debt (Paris Club debt). That is a good thing and I can only applaud him for that. So in summary, for me IBB did the worst damage to the country.

naijaking1:

I was going to shout at the top of my voice when I suddenly saw how ignorant you are about the events of that era.
FYI, Ironsi did not dethrone the civilian regime, the first coup plotters did. Your position is a false association of Ironsi(who was himself running for dear life) with the first coupist, many of who were Igbos.
Failure to execute the coup plotters? You should know that they had been arrested, detained and facing the judicial process when Ironsi himself was assasinated.

the coupist were not executed as that was the punishment for treason in the military because nzeogwu made a deal with ironsi to pardon the coupist which he did and that neglience on his part caused the counter-coup by the north

For me all the presidents that took IMF loans and did nothing with it to build Nigeria (well they kept the money in their pockets) are the worst (Buhari, IBB and Abacha).

Out of all these 3 IBB did the worst damage to Nigeria. I will explain. If you are interested please read this link on IMF loans and SAP (Structural Adjustment Progmamme) - http://www.whirledbank.org/development/sap.html
IMF loans are like taking credit from loan sharks with detrimental and unacceptable interest on these loans. The loans have negative conditions/programmes which does not allow the country to develop in anyway (mordern day slavery we were sold into by our equally wicked leaders).

I quote from the link - "SAPs generally require countries to devalue their currencies against the dollar; lift import and export restrictions; balance their budgets and not overspend; and remove price controls and state subsidies. Devaluation makes their goods cheaper for foreigners to buy and theoretically makes foreign imports more expensive. In principle it should make the country wary of buying expensive foreign equipment. In practice, however, the IMF actually disrupts this by rewarding the country with a large foreign currency loan that encourages it to purchase imports. Balancing national budgets can be done by raising taxes, which the IMF frowns upon, or by cutting government spending, which it definitely recommends. As a result, SAPs often result in deep cuts in programmes like education, health and social care, and the removal of subsidies designed to control the price of basics such as food and milk. So SAPs hurt the poor most, because they depend heavily on these services and subsidies. By devaluing the currency and simultaneously removing price controls, the immediate effect of a SAP is generally to hike prices up three or four times, increasing poverty to such an extent that riots are a frequent result".

For example, look at how the currency of Nigeria started dropping in the exchange market. it all happened in 1985/1986 when IBB started implementing SAP due to IMF loans he has taken and pocketed (he didnt use any of it to develop Nigeria). These SAP implementations killed Nigeria off in the international market and literarily crippled us from any development.

See link here (look for the exchange rate history) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_naira#Exchange_rate_history

Obj (even though i am not keen on him) made Nigeria the first African country to pay off their debt (Paris Club debt). That is a good thing and I can only applaud him for that. So in summary, for me IBB did the worst damage to the country.

you have the MOST valid argument.

you followed the money.

~Bluetooth:

the coupist were not executed as that was the punishment for treason in the military because nzeogwu made a deal with ironsi to pardon the coupist which he did and that neglience on his part caused the counter-coup by the north

There is no evidence that there was a deal, you don't have any evidence that there was a deal, because there was no deal. Next, you'll tell me that it was because both of them were Igbos? The question I have for people like you is this:
Why do you expect things to go smoothly in Nigeria today, when you lie and cover-up the obvious misdeeds of yesterday. Why do you expect junior army officers to be disciplined today when you're glorifying junior officers who turned around and assasinated the commanding officer they were supposed to be protecting with their lives yesterday. How and why do you expect things to normalize?

ibb the badest of all government in this contry

@Naijaking, Ironsi taking over the helms of government had already shown lack of discipline in the military. The second coup was just a continuation of the  problem. Y did the military head of the USA not take over the government when Kennedy was assassinated? Because The US military is disciplined, they know their job isn`t to rule but to protect the American people.  Ironsi should have followed the law of the land instead of making himself president, he started the indiscipline.

Ironsi and the rest of his ruling council showed lack of discipline by not following the law of the land, making themselves unelected leaders of the country and suspending the Constitution .

Leadership in coup plots are never based on seniority, but determined by the coup planners. If Ojukwu really believed in military discipline he would never have agreed to Ironsi taking over leadership of the country and suspending/abolishing the Constitution of the land, the supreme law of the land. Where is the discipline in a military coup?

^^^^
A very spirited attempt to re-write history.

@Naijaking, who is re-writing history and how?

naijaking1:

I was going to shout at the top of my voice when I suddenly saw how ignorant you are about the events of that era.
FYI, Ironsi did not dethrone the civilian regime, the first coup plotters did. Your position is a false association of Ironsi(who was himself running for dear life) with the first coupist, many of who were Igbos.
Failure to execute the coup plotters? You should know that they had been arrested, detained and facing the judicial process when Ironsi himself was assasinated.

Lets get the sequence of events straight, then we will debate who is ignorant.

1. Tafa Balewa led government was in power till Jan 15, 1966
2. Nzeogwu & co, killed the prime minister, Sardauan, Akintola, etc.
3. The death of the prime minister, made Nwafor Orizu (then senate president and NCNC member) the acting president
4. 1960 Constitution dictated that the majority party, NPC, appoint as acting PM. Their candidate was Dipcharima
5. Orizu sort the approval of the NCNC members on the appointment (even though the choice was for the NPC to make) but the NCNC disagreed, instead nominating their own candidate in Mbadiwe.
6. During the debate, Ironsi arrived and discussed with Orizu in private. When Ironsi left, Orizu told the NPC and NCNC members that he couldn't grant their request.
7. Later that day, Ironsi summoned the Cabinet officers and told them (actually lied) that he was unable to suppress the mutineers, claiming the latter were in control of Kaduna, Kano and Ibadan. This was false as Ironsi had the support of Ojukwu in Kano, Nzefili in Ibadan, Njoku and Gowon in Lagos, Ejoor at Enugu, and Obienu  at Abeokuta. Ironsi himself said as much in his first broadcast.
8. When asked by the cabinet members if he wanted to take up the british offer of military assistance, he declined, saying that the rest of the army were adamant and anxious in pressurizing him to assume power and that it would be in the best interest of the cabinet members and the nation if he assumed power 'temporarily'. They agreed and he demand a written statement to that effect.
9. At 11:50pm on Jan 16, 1960, read a broadcast handing over power to Ironsi.
10. Ironsi made a follow up broadcast in which he suspended parts of the constitution and went on to constitute the first military regime.

So Nzeogwu and his crew killed the PM but did not overthrow the government. They were never in power.
Ironsi was the military personnel that took over from the civilian regime. You can argue on whether the cabinet members were intimidated or deceived into handing over, but the fact remains that Ironsi was the one who overthrew the civilian regime.

Feel free to tell us your own version of the story of how Nzeogwu & co assumed power