butterflylion:



^^^^^
|||||||||

He does not know what he is saying. He just body slammed himself.

felixomor:


Exactly!

butterflylion:



If iron is present in haemoglobin and can preserve then why do we further embalm? Why do humans and animals rot Afterall we all have same haemoglobin content?

felixomor:

You just
Exactly explained why your extrapolation is false too.

felixomor:


Simple question
Why did they loose?


You want to still swim?

LightandDarkness:


Hardly. I stated why your analogy was false but at the same time stated the conditions where it could be possible. In the second paragraph I stated the condition(s) whereby the extrapolation the researcher used would/could be valid. While these conditions are possible, it is impossible to fulfil all the conditions I stated for bolt to run around Nigeria in 3 days. Do better.

LightandDarkness:


*lose, asked and answered

felixomor:

Nah
Not hardly, but expresly, you did.

Your dear hemoglobin (Usain bolt) is readily broken down by multiple strains of bacteria that desend on tissues after death
And myriads of other factors that nullifies the conditions of the guided experieiment you sited.
Making it very impossible.

felixomor:


Why did they lose?
Are u ready to answer?

LightandDarkness:


They lost their petition to dismiss the case because a judge determine armitage's case was strong enough to be decided at trial. Again, this does not mean CSUN lost the suit because it never went to trial.

LightandDarkness:


Hardly. Heme has been identified in the belly of a 46 million year old mosquito

The abdomen of the fossil mosquito was shown to contain very high levels of iron, and mass spectrometry data provided a convincing identification of porphyrin molecules derived from the oxygen-carrying heme moiety of hemoglobin. These data confirm the existence of taphonomic conditions conducive to the preservation of biomolecules through deep time and support previous reports of the existence of heme-derived porphyrins in terrestrial fossils.

http://m.pnas.org/content/110/46/18496.short

Therefore it is very possible for the iron containing heme to survive millions of years.

felixomor:


Unfortunately there is no heme in what we discovered here.
You have now moved to using assumption on heme as full blown evidence.

Besides that experiment you earlier quoted was found to be conducted at room temperature.

We need not say more

LightandDarkness:


"The abdomen of the fossil mosquito was shown to contain very high levels of iron, and mass spectrometry data provided a convincing identification of porphyrin molecules derived from the oxygen-carrying heme moiety of hemoglobin."

Mass spectrometry proves that it was infact iron containing heme. How can you say there is no heme?

What assumption on heme have I made? You said hemoglobin is rapidly broken down which makes the conditions of the experiment impossible. I showed that heme, the iron containing hemoglobin subunit, can survive for millions of years.

Also where was the temperature of the experiment stated, even if it was room temperature that is no issue?

felixomor:


Did you see heme with collagen in Dr Armitage's work?

And for you to say experiment of 2 years in room temperature compared to 70 million in external temperature makes is "no issue", shows your desperation

felixomor:


Did you see heme with collagen in Dr Armitage's work?

And for you to say experiment of 2 years in room temperature compared to 70 million in external temperature makes is "no issue", shows your desperation

LightandDarkness:


Did Dr Armitage publish the cellular properties of the soft tissue he found? If not, how did you know there was no heme?

LightandDarkness:

Again the time frame of Schweitzer's experiment is irrelevant because iron containing heme has been shown to be able to survive for millions of years, Schweitzer shows heme can reduce degradation rates. Put two and two together.

LightandDarkness:

Again what is the issue if it was conducted at room temperature?

LightandDarkness:

Soft tissue preservation at Higher temperatures have already been demonstrated and support Schweitzers theory for soft tissue preservation.

LightandDarkness:

If you read the article I posted "Also, if soft tissue is initially dried out before it decays, it undergoes changes that make it more stable even if it is later rehydrated."

If temperatures are hot enough to dry out the tissue before it decays then it becomes more stable and more likely to be preserved.

LightandDarkness:

Furthermore you have not explained why carbon dating showed the fossils to be millions of years old? Your refusal to acknowledge this shows your desperation

felixomor:


Now you have confirmed what I have been Saying.
You never read the story.
It is clearly stated that his work was published

felixomor:


Sorry it has not been shown. Many scientists already have stated that the age of the bones must be wrong.
And Even in the laws of Reactions in Chemistry clearly Shows Time is a factor in every reaction known.
Dont force yourself on science.

Besides by now, people would been using heme solution for preservation
Formaldehyde forms covalent bond with organic tissues which even places it above iron
Yet it cant preserve for even a million years.

felixomor post=59627086

- Everything
The dinosaur didn't decompose in such condition
[/quote]


Tissue does not decompose at room temperature?

[quote author=felixomor:


- Nah It wasn't.
You posted an assumption that was reached after a 2 year experiment under a different condition

felixomor:


- the bolded statements clearly shows you are hanging unto assumptions

felixomor:

I hope you know carbon dating has been found to be wrong several times.
Besides you have shown that you don't have a grasp of the basic chemistry hence why you tried sweeping "time" as factor In decomposition.
So I don't expect you to know that carbon dating is susceptible to errors once the time is above a certain amount of years.

LightandDarkness:


I asked you to show where he published the properties of the soft tissue he discovered to show that heme was not present? In short show me where he analysed the soft tissue to determine its cellular and molecular properties



And many scientists have shown the age of the bones to be correct, what's your point. So Schweitzer used hemoglobin to preserve blood vessels and yet it has not been shown that heme can preserve blood vessels? Again having shown that heme can survive for millions of years and having shown that heme can preserve blood vessels we can reasonably conclude that if heme remained in contact with these blood vessels and continued to do so for millions of years it could slow down their degradation.

Don't digress. We are not comparing heme to formaldehyde, neither is anyone saying heme is the ultimate preservative. The theory is that heme reduces the degradation of collagen, tubulin, and actin which was found in the soft tissue.

felixomor:


Sorry you have not demonstrated that heme can preserve collagen in external temperature for 70 million years. You sited a 2 year experiment at room temperature.
Let me spell that out for you again.

Secondly you were Ignorant that Armitage's work was published.
Read the whole news again properly.

LightandDarkness:


It seems you are deliberately failing to understand my posts. I have addressed everything you have posted at least twice. I have made my point and leave it to others reading this thread to form their own opinions

felixomor:
University settles lawsuit with scientist fired after he found soft tissue in dinosaur bones




CSUN scientist Mark Armitage found soft tissue in a dinosaur bone, a discovery that throws significant doubt on evolution. Then, two weeks after publishing his findings, he was fired.

Now California State University at Northridge has paid Armitage a six-figure sum to settle his wrongful termination suit based on religious discrimination. While the university admits no wrongdoing, Armitage’s attorney said they feared losing a protracted lawsuit because of a “smoking gun” email that backed the plaintiff’s case.

The case of Armitage is the latest to show the mounting hostility Christians face in academics and other public arenas.



“Soft tissue in dinosaur bones destroys ‘deep time.’ Dinosaur bones cannot be old if they’re full of soft tissue,” Armitage said in a YouTube video. “Deep time is the linchpin of evolution. If you don’t have deep time, you don’t have evolution. The whole discussion of evolution ends if you show that the earth is young. You can just erase evolution off the whiteboard because of soft tissue in dinosaur bones.”

Armitage was hired as a microscopist to manage CSUN’s electron and confocal microscope suite in 2010. He had published some 30 articles in scientific journals about his specialty.

A graduate of Liberty University, Armitage adheres to the “young earth” view, against the majority of scientists who say our planet is 5 billion years old. He engaged students in his lab with Socratic dialogue over the issue of the earth’s age based on his and others’ research, he said.




In May 2012, Armitage went on a dinosaur dig at the famous fossil site of Hell Creek in Montana, where he unearthed the largest triceratops horn ever found there. Back at CSUN, he put the fossil under his microscope and made the startling discovery: unfossilized, undecayed tissue was present.

If the dinosaur were 65 million years old, the soft tissue could not have possibly remained, he says. His findings seconded groundbreaking discoveries by noted molecular paleontologist Mary Schweitzer, who triggered an earthquake in the world of paleontology when she published about soft tissue in dinosaur bones in 2005. (Schweitzer subsequently postulated that iron is responsible for preserving the soft tissue.)

Armitage’s February 2013 study was published in the peer-reviewed Acta Histochemica, a journal of cell and tissue research. Two week later, he found himself without a job.



A biology professor had come into his office and said, “We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department.”

Armitage fought back. Professors and students alike had praised his work managing the microscope lab. His suit alleged he was excluded from a secret meetings of the microscopy committee. In a “smoking gun” email, university officials suggested they could ease Armitage out of his part-time position by making it full-time, Reinach said.

A colleague described the process as a “witch hunt,” according to Inside Higher Ed.

For two years, CSUN fought Armitage’s lawsuit. The university alleged his firing was simply a restructuring of their biology department and not a case of religious discrimination. But CSUN lost its bid to have the judge summarily throw the case out of court as groundless in July of last year.

A biology professor had come into his office and said, “We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department.”

Armitage fought back. Professors and students alike had praised his work managing the microscope lab. His suit alleged he was excluded from a secret meetings of the microscopy committee. In a “smoking gun” email, university officials suggested they could ease Armitage out of his part-time position by making it full-time, Reinach said.

A colleague described the process as a “witch hunt,” according to Inside Higher Ed.

For two years, CSUN fought Armitage’s lawsuit. The university alleged his firing was simply a restructuring of their biology department and not a case of religious discrimination. But CSUN lost its bid to have the judge summarily throw the case out of court as groundless in July of last year.

So CSUN settled with Armitage for $399,500 in 2016, according to Inside Higher Ed.

Alan Reinach, Armitage’s attorney, hailed the settlement as precedent-setting.

“We are not aware of any other cases where a creationist received a favorable outcome,” said Reinach, executive director of the Church State Council, a nonprofit California public interest legal organization. “This was truly a historic case.”



CSUN has downplayed its decision to settle, saying in a statement that the university is committed to religious freedom and freedom of speech.

“The Superior Court did not rule on the merits of Mr. Armitage’s complaint, and this voluntary settlement is not an indication of wrong-doing,” according to a CSUN statement published in Retraction Watch. “The decision to settle was based on a desire to avoid the costs involved in a protracted legal battle, including manpower, time and state dollars.”

But Reinach countered: “They certainly would not have paid that kind of money if they did not recognize that we had them dead to rights. The state doesn’t put large, six-figure settlement money out unless they are really concerned they are going to lose.”

Prior to looking for soft tissue in dinosaur bones, Armitage studied diatoms, unicellular organisms that make up phytoplankton, which reveal a dizzying complexity and organization at the microscopic level.

According to Armitage, the beauty and complexity of diatoms lends credence to the idea they are a product of a Creator and not of spontaneous evolution.

“Evolution is structure supported by two pillars: one is chance, and the other is time. Chance is required because we obviously can’t say that a thinking force created life on earth. That is anathema for the materialists. If you kick out one of those two pillars the whole structure collapses,” Armitage noted. “If you kick out chance by showing incredible design, the structure of evolution starts to totter and it may crash. Because you cannot have design in a world that doesn’t have a Designer.

“The other pillar is time because you cannot get a man from a frog unless the princess kissed the frog. That’s a fairy tale. So in science you have to have deep time to get evolution.”

Subsequent to the controversy, Armitage has been on additional digs and found more soft tissue but is finding it difficult to get published. “I’m clearly being blackballed,” he said in The College Fix.

“Soft tissue in dinosaur bones destroys deep time.” Armitage said. “Dinosaur bones cannot be old if they’re full of soft tissue.”


SOURCES:

http://blog.godreports.com/2017/08/university-settles-lawsuit-with-scientist-fired-after-he-found-soft-tissue-in-dinosaur-bones/

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/us-university-settles-lawsuit-creationist


CC: Iwant2knowGod, DoctorAlien, rhektor, haibe, blueAgent, KingEbukasBlog, butterflylion, Analice107, 4everGod

butterflylion:



I thought they claim only atheists make good scientists. This one wey be Christian no be scientist? Cool $400k for scientific whistle blowing.

felixomor:


He actually wants to pretend as if he didn't read that part of the story.
Besides even if he is correct, why did the university choose to settle and why did they loose the bid to stop the scientists case?

Hehehehe.

felixomor:


Sharrap. And read the story properly.

The school was sued for religious discrimination because of his discovery, and they lost the bid to stop the case before they agreed to settle.

butterflylion:



I was about to say 9mobile fall on you but when I saw that they already fell on you since yesterday I had to stop.

See guy, desperation to sell a lie no dey make the lie to be truth you hear?

A truly scientific mind with ask a simple question. If iron can preserve tissues for so long why then isn't iron used for embalming corpses? If iron can preserve tissues for so long was iron part of the composition of the soil where this particular fossil was found?

You think say the Christian scientist no consider these things before speaking out? They knew they had no case and could not defend anything so they had to cut the guy loose using religious discrimination. At least that's a lesser evil than shooting evolution in the head by exposing this discovery.

They chose to save evolution with $400k

Scientific thieves.

felixomor:


Sorry for trying to inconvenience u with wisdom.
I should have ignored your mention.

Ranchhoddas:
Please read the thread.
This was already published in 2005 by NOTABLE PALEONTOLOGIST Mary Schweitzer.
His discovery was not new.
In science when something is discovered, the next thing is to begin to make postulates which Mary Schweitzer did.
Nothing is accepted as absolute truth in science until it is foolproof.
You guy did not. He went and began to tell everyone that his discovery validates his beliefs. Very unscientific and he got fired.
The University settled because it will be cheaper in the long run than a drawn out legal battle.
Anyone who knows the American legal system will see that it was a prudent move.
Do a Google search.
Mark Armitage is a renowned pseudoscientist.

blueAgent:



Guy i need money. don't you think we should look for something, of cos there are lots of lies in Evolution we can profit from?
Atheists are desperate they will pay sharp sharp. Lol......

felixomor:


we are still waiting for your demonstration of 65 million years embalmment science secret.

Besides, you just said the scientist got fired
You just reemphasised the essence of the whole cover up and settling.

felixomor:


Butterflylion clearly showed u a reasearch link that debunks what u copied
And even explaining the chemistry behind why soft tissue cant last 65 million years.

I even buttressed it.
Even the strongest formaldehyde cant last that long.

You can all but pretend you dont see that

blueAgent:


Story for the gods.

blueAgent:


Story for the gods.

blueAgent:



Guy i need money. don't you think we should look for something, of cos there are lots of lies in Evolution we can profit from?
Atheists are desperate they will pay sharp sharp. Lol......