@lady
it's okay now let me answer what you ve already written

So you see my dear whoever told you that Jesus never claimed to be God and never spoke of the Trinity lied to you.

Not just that but he did say "Baptise in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" Direct reference to Trinity.

It is very easy to deceive people by Isolating scriptural passages, this is how many people are deceived into heretical beliefs. They pick that one passage that seems to support their view, but when viewed in light of the other passages really does not, and when viewed in the historical context (language, time, and culture the book of the Bible was written in) does not support their view either.

But they will never tell you that. Why? Because they know they are wrong, and have tremendous fear of you finding that out.

by the way all above is attributed to www.scripturecatholic.com, so no plagiarising here.

@karo94,

viaro:

Now, could you also look again into the request that others have left you? Look into those other verses you have ignored - they may show you affirmations of Christ's deity in the Bible. If you don't know, ask: I'm sure that a few posters here will supply you with some verses.

You remember when I addressed the above^^ to you in my reply? Now I think you have enough to sift through and enjoy dealing with them:

(a)

~Lady~:

Rubbish, we are asked to defend our faith.

@ Poster.

[size=14pt]I. Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the Son[/size]

(b)

~Lady~:

[size=14pt]II. Jesus Christ's Witnesses Claim that Jesus is God[/size]

(c)

~Lady~:

[size=14pt]II. Jesus Christ's Witnesses Claim that Jesus is God[/size]

^^ and so on and so on. .!!

@lady
it's okay now let me answer what you ve already written

Be sure to read everything first. and please apply logic.

Oh also a quick question o. Why did the Jews want to crucify Jesus?

THE SUMMARY OF ALL LADY'S QUESTIONS
1.Jesus has the power of the father because according to john 3.35 the father loves the son and puts EVERYTHING under his power.
2.Jesus could be substituted with God or the holy spirit because while on earth before his death he had neither a way of life or power to do anything on his own for he was filled by the holy spirit mt 12.28 who gave him the power and directed his path and neither did he have a personal message for he was sent by God.[the only thing christ did on his own was to die for us]
3.Jesus never claimed to be God. i ll not repeat my explanation of john 10.30 read my first post.
4.According to matt 12.28 jesus perfomed miracles because he was filled with the holy spirit
5.Christ can be worshipped because according to john 3.35 every thing God has power over he equally does.
6.The holy spirit is not one person but 7 spirits by rev 4.5 and 5.6 they are the messengers of God who execute every project for him in other words the active force of GOD

those questions were long and stress ful so u can now channel your questions one by one.nice work though.

Lest i forget the jews wanted to crucify jesus for two main reasons
1.He said he was the son of God and in all their life God never revealed to the prophets that he had a son.mt26.63-65,john 19.7
2.The people were fully behind jesus if he wanted to be king john 6.15 and they were under the roman rule where the only king is the emperor. they were afraid that the emperor may destroy them if he heard that they had a king or were plannning for one.john 1912

first of all I never asked a question, so I don't know what you're talking about.

second if I did, you missed the mark of my question. I think what you did was confuse your thoughts for my thoughts?

sorry if i made a gross error by calling them questions
i have replied as i see fit for now so if you have any more problems just let me know

If you have any more problems just let me know ke? Obviously, this person is not serious like I said earlier. He's been heavily indoctrinated.
Lady, well done o.
May God open every eye.

Alright lets get things straight;to anyone who thinks someone hammered all these points into my head i would let you know that not a word of anything that i have written all through was given to me by any human being.
I have seen all these things in my cause of reading the bible over time and decided that it was high time I made my points known to all.

May God open every eye, !

Let me say specifically dat Jesus did not write nor witness any gospel. De gospel was written many years after his death. Due to many translations and human errors,many may not fully grasps what was written in de bible or scrolls. Pls remember that bible was compiled by de early roman catholics leaders, later was opposed by some group of protestants led by Martin luther during de era of king james. Anyway that's a topic 4 another day: back on de current thread. Let us not contradict de bible, According to paul's letter to Colossians (1-15) christ is the visible likeness of God(is it enough 2 make jesus 2 be God! Man is also created by God's image and likeness,is man equals 2 God) read genesis. Yes God created the whole universe through Christ and for Christ. Yes Jesus is de head of God's body - (the church). Vs 19. For it was God decision that his son(CHRIST) has himself de full nature of God. Through the son,GOD decided to bring de whole universe back 2 himself.( think deep,it still does not make christ God but messiah). In Paul's letter 2 corinthians; 1cor 8:4-6, Paul recognized only one God seperately, and one lord who is Jesus Christ. Pls compare Ephesians 4:4-6, 1Timothy 2 vs 5. Then at end of time Christ will hand over de kingdom of God back to God and place himself under God! 1COR 15:23-28. In 1Cor 3 vs 23 paul said just as you belong to Christ,CHRIST 'belong' God. Note. 'belong' means Owned! Hold on am still coming out,

Part 2: "pls let us read de bible without being biased and prejudiced!",  From Good News bible john1-15; before de world was created,the word also existed, he was with God and he is the same with God. Through him God made all things not one thing was made without him,   From King james version; In de begining was the word and the word was with God,word was with God.              The WORD refereed in the bible is God's spoken words and it dwelt in his Son. Thus the word of God is God himself. It's by God's will that he placed his words on his Son. (colossians1:19)    the Son was later made man(lower than angels so that he can suffer death (Heb2:9). Note,   remember the   Son was created by God before the creation of the universe(superior than angels). The creation of universe was done by God through his Son. Paul explained this in letter to Hebrew.     Because Jesus is lower than God, that's one of de reason lucifer tempted jesus. GOD can never be tempted!         Jesus was full of holy spirits when he was tempted. His temptation came when God declared him his beloved son luke 4:1, luke 3:21-22  pls hold on,  ,  .

Jesus was tempted  in 3 areas to misuse his power to meet a physical need; to compromise with devil and avoid God's way of cross; to use his privilege as the Son of God recklessly.   The implication of Jesus yielding to the temptations would have meant de fall of second Adam. Instead of redeem from the fall that came from first Adam, Mankind would have continued in eternal damnation.   HOW CHRIST DESCRIBED HIMSELF: john 5:19-20 ' I am the truth; the son can do nothin on his own,he does only what the father tells him to do. For the father loves his son and show him all that himself is doing'.   JOHN 5:30, JOHN 8:25-30"  I can do nothing on my own authority: I judge only as God tells me, so my judgement is right, because i am not trying to do what i want but what he who sent me wants "    ( it clearly state that in as much as Christ has de full nature of God,he (christ is lower than God!)     maybe this bible quotes will clear u further,   JOHN 14:28 Jesus said God is greater than him!       JOHN.14 His words is not of his but God's words.   John 6:46.  Only jesus has seen God.   JOHN 15:9- 10. Jesus obey God's commandment and remain in God's love!

WHAT CHRIST MEANS WHEN HE SAID" I and Father are one" John 10:30,38             -HE and father are together in one accord.    - He obeys God's Commandment. Remember his prayer before his death in de garden 'let his disciples be ONE just as He (jesus) and father(GOD) Are one'. It is not trinity!  Or are his disciples trinity in that regards?* Argument* Baptism which is done in the name of de father,son,and of the holy spirit  does not make them trinity, Paul say In the presence of God,and of Christ,and of his holy angels(1TIM 5:21) ARE THEY TRINITY?     I rest my case for now. Will be back soon, ,

The baptism in the name of the father,son and the holy spirit according to matt 28.19 does not make the trinity because first things first there is not one spirit of God[rev.4.5 and 5.6].
Jesus ordered this baptism to make known to the new converts the most useful aspects of their faith.

1.They had to worship the FATHER.
2.They had to believe in the SON so that his blood would wash away their sins and through his name their prayers will be answered by God.
3.They had to receive the holy spirit to direct their path since they were no longer under the law.[gal.5.4-5]They also needed the holy spirit to be able to worship God properly which was the most important john.4.24

Hence the baptism in the name of the father,son and holy spirit

nice work ijele.

@ijele and karo93,

Let me leave you a direct statement of Jesus Christ: "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (John 5:23). What does this tell you?

viaro:

@ijele and karo93,

Let me leave you a direct statement of Jesus Christ: "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (John 5:23). What does this tell you?

                         Thanks dear, that biblical injuction is true and sacred! Read my comments careful,,  Like i said earlier Jesus is the true son of the  almighty God and God's word is bestowed in him Jesus. So if you dishonor Jesus, you ve dishonor God,  But that still does not make jesus a God,  Now christ said to his disciples whoever rejects you have rejected me. Recall again that in de same bible we re told that what so ever we do to de least of our brother that what we do unto jesus,  Does this mean to that jesus's disciples as well as we human is Jesus or rather God,  Think deep. St thomas de Aquinas said that ' Faith without reasoning is hell',  Remember jesus said that not all who call him lord! lord! OR JESUS JESUS will enter de kingdom of God but those who do the will of his father ( God) now he has distinguished himself from God,  *NOTE* all the time Jesus called his father he is refering to God our God, jesus's God. luke 20 vs 17,  Now here is your own questions to reason,  Now when jesus was nailed to de cross, here is his prayer '' Father forgive them 4 they know not what they are doing, and also ,  MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME( whom do he called father & God?  or is there a greater God among them)JOHN 23 vs 34  Matthew 27 vs 46, when he was about to die he did not go to the father in person rather he commended his spirit to God (luke 23 vs 46) when rose from dead,  He said he's  yet to return to his father- the superior God. Pls read John 20 vs 17. JESUS's status as christ was appointed by God,  read luke 22 vs 29 '' for i appoint you a kingdom,as my father hath appointed unto me'' if jesus is God or co- God, he should be refering to his fellow God as his colleague not his father,,  I taught you would have asked a better question like why did Thomas called jesus 'my lord and my God'? John 20:28                                                   Until then,  Seek and you'll find,  the truth, the absolute truth,

ijele:

Thanks dear, that biblical injuction is true and sacred! Read my comments careful,, Like i said earlier Jesus is the true son of the almighty God and God's word is bestowed in him Jesus. So if you dishonor Jesus, you ve dishonor God, But that still does not make jesus a God, Now christ said to his disciples whoever rejects you have rejected me.

I don't think that carries weight at all. I don't know what you mean by 'God's word was bestowed on him'; but I do know that many prophets declared that the Word of the Lord came unto them. Yet, none of them ever claimed divine and equal honour for themselves in the way anyone honours God. The claim in John 5:23 was made specifically only by the Lord Jesus Christ - and you may want to look a bit more into that.

Ijele.If Jesus is d word became flesh of john1,how can u bestow d word of God on d word of God?

ijele:

Part 2: "pls let us read de bible without being biased and prejudicee!",  From Good News bible john1-15; before de world was created,the word also existed, he was with God and he is the same with God. Through him God made all things not one thing was made without him,   From King james version; In de begining was the word and the word was with God,word was with God.              The WORD refereed in the bible is God's spoken words and it dwelt in his Son. Thus the word of God is God himself. It's by God's will that he placed his words on his Son. (colossians1:19)    the Son was later made man(lower than angels so that he can suffer death (Heb2:9). Note,   remember the   Son was created by God before the creation of the universe(superior than angels). The creation of universe was done by God through his Son. Paul explained this in letter to Hebrew.     Because Jesus is lower than God, that's one of de reason lucifer tempted jesus. GOD can never be tempted!         Jesus was full of holy spirits when he was tempted. His temptation came when God declared him his beloved son luke 4:1, luke 3:21-22  pls hold on,  ,  . 

         I posted this earlier read careful,

viaro:

I don't think that carries weight at all. I don't know what you mean by 'God's word was bestowed on him'; but I do know that many prophets declared that the Word of the Lord came unto them. Yet, none of them ever claimed divine and equal honour for themselves in the way anyone honours God. The claim in John 5:23 was made specifically only by the Lord Jesus Christ - and you may want to look a bit more into that.

you re yet reflect and answer my owns questions, Sorry my word 'bestow' may not connote a clear meaning 2 u. In other words,i mean God's words given to christ as part of his messiah work. Your inability to grasp this may remains a mystery to you, So unburden yourself and let de yoke fell off your eyes,

ijele:

Part 2: pls let your read de bible without being biased,  From Good News bible john1-15; before de world was created,the word also existed, he was with God and he is the same with God. Through him God made all things not one thing was made without him,   From King james version; In de begining was the word and the word was with God,word was with God.              The WORD refereed in the bible is God's spoken words and it dwelt in his Son. Thus the word of God is God himself. It's by God's will that he placed his words on his Son. (colossians1:19)    the Son was later made man(lower than angels so that he can suffer death (Heb2:9). Note,   remember the   Son was created by God before the creation of the universe(superior than angels). The creation of universe was done by God through his Son. Paul explained this in letter to Hebrew.     Because Jesus is lower than God, that's one of de reason lucifer tempted jesus. GOD can never be tempted!         Jesus was full of holy spirits when he was tempted. His temptation came when God declared him his beloved son luke 4:1, luke 3:21-22  pls hold on,  ,  .  

ijele:

I posted this earlier read careful,

^^ I don't see how you have dealt directly with John 5:23. The point was that if Jesus Christ was not God, then it would be meaningless for Him to have spoken those words in that verse (John 5:23) - because the 'honour' He spoke of, was the very same honour that ALL MEN render to the Father. In other words, divine honour is reserved for Divinity and Divinity alone - in that instance, only Jesus Christ could speak those words in John 5:23, for two specific reasons (among several other reasons) ~

(a)  "Thus the word of God is God himself" - that is true. The very divine Logos in that verse of John 1:1 causes a lot of people a lot of trouble and they would argue it this way and that, in order to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. However, it was not some verbiage of written or spoken words that was bestowed on Jesus Christ, but He is that very divine Logos Himself. This is all the more true in view of the fact that that is His Name ~ "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God" (Rev. 19:13). So, if the word of God is God Himself, it strengthens the fact that only Jesus Christ alone could have spoken those words in John 5:23.

(b)  Nowhere does any apostle ever declare that Jesus Christ was ever created by God at anytime. Many people only read their own ideas into the Bible to argue that way, but that is not taught in any verse of the Bible. The Bible is clear when it states that the divine Son is the subject and object of creation's worship - "And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Heb. 1:4). If angels worship the divine Son, what is the big trouble that puny men make to object that the Son of God is also to be worshipped by men? Is John 5:23 not clear now - that ALL MEN (just like ALL the ANGELS) would worship the Son of God?

There's no need making excuses for John 5:23 in an attempt to deny the Deity of Christ. ALL MEN are to render Him the very same honour that they render to the Father - for indeed, even ALL the ANGELS were commanded to worship Him.

ijele:

you re yet reflect and answer my owns questions, Sorry my word 'bestow' may not connote a clear meaning 2 u. In other words,i mean God's words given to christ as part of his messiah work. Your inability to grasp this may remains a mystery to you, So unburden yourself and let de yoke fell off your eyes,

Jesus Christ Himself is the Word of God - that is specifically His Name (Rev. 19:13), and so your idea that it was some words given to Christ simply falls to the ground.

Have you read a verse in the bible that states that " at de end of time christ will handover the world to God and place himself under God"? Will that clear some doubts if i quote the chapter?

Do i convince you from de bible where Christ said that he has limited knowledge or does it mean that he doesn't understand he is God? Should i quote where it's written that it's only christ that has seen God or it means only God has seen God. Should i point out where christ said do not called Good but Father(GOD)alone is good.

@ viaro, pls read my comments very well and quote me rightly, I did not say ' some words were given or place in christ, hell no! I said categorically that God's word was given,dwelt, and is christ not some or limited, What ever we say here in this thread is as good as spoken words and we all will be judge on this be it internet or otherwise, So let be careful how we quote others, Remember God's law "do not bear false witness against ur neighbour, So let's get back to our issues, When jesus said to mary ' I go to my father,your father,my God,your God, which God is refering to? Himself and or 'co-GOD'?

ijele:

Have you read a verse in the bible that states that " at de end of time christ will handover the world to God and place himself under God"? Will that clear some doubts if i quote the chapter?

ijele:

Do i convince you from de bible where Christ said that he has limited knowledge or does it mean that he doesn't understand he is God? Should i quote where it's written that it's only christ that has seen God or it means only God has seen God. Should i point out where christ said do not called Good but Father(GOD)alone is good.

Those are passages that do not affect the Deity of Christ one bit. I have tried to point out that there are two things that Scripture often presents to us about Christ: (a) His Deity; and (b) His Humanity.

You cannot use His Humanity to deny His Deity, just as you cannot use His Deity to deny His Humanity. The reason why people have difficulties in these things is because they have emphasized His Humanity to such extremes that they lose sight of His Deity.

The simple answer to such confusion is probably given in 2 Corinthians 5:16 - "though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more". It doesn't mean that the Humanity of Christ is no longer to be taught in Christianity; but it rather points out that we should not be too driven by only His Humanity that we completely lose sight of the fact of His Deity ("To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen" - Rom. 9:5, ESV).

His Humanity is one thing; and His Deity is another - but neither of them cancel out each other; rather, they are united in Him.

Could you now consider my rejoinder in post #52?

ijele:

@ viaro, pls read my comments very well and quote me rightly, I did not say ' some words were given or place in christ, hell no! I said categorically that God's word was given,dwelt, and is christ not some or limited,

Whatever. You seemed to have implied that same thing in this quote:

[list]

ijele:

The WORD refereed in the bible is God's spoken words and it dwelt in his Son. Thus the word of God is God himself. It's by God's will that he placed his words on his Son.

[/list]

Yet, that takes nothing away from the fact that "the word of God is God himself" and Jesus is called "the Word of God" (Rev. 19:13).

ijele:

What ever we say here in this thread is as good as spoken words and we all will be judge on this be it internet or otherwise, So let be careful how we quote others, Remember God's law "do not bear false witness against your neighbour, So let's get back to our issues, When jesus said to mary ' I go to my father,your father,my God,your God, which God is refering to? Himself and or 'co-GOD'?

I was not bearing false witness against you - please see above.

Deity? Human deity? Divine deity? I can't believe the God at a point will restrict himself,even christ parable on his heavenly status, he still mention on a greater force than him, ok when he rose from dead did he still carry human deity? Pls explain this ''at end of time,christ will handover the universe to God and place himself under God'' pls explain this to me like a 6yrs old child.

ijele:

Have you read a verse in the bible that states that " at de end of time christ will handover the world to God and place himself under God"? Will that clear some doubts if i quote the chapter?

Guy it will clear no doubt cause theres none.Paul in all his writings about christ,affirms his Godship.U re refering to 1corin15:23-. Here Paul is telling us dat whatever power God has,all have been giving to christ to be d ruler(God) of Heaven&Earth.When christ will handover then God will become all in all.i.e now Trinity is at work division of Labour is being practised.God d creator of Heaven&earth,has made jesus to be God over evrythng God created,whilst d holy spirit is a messenger(comforter). Christ is incharge of this dispensation,while God is an observer.

Pls explain this to me like  8yrs old child, Christ  sitting at de right hand of God? Why separating both deity when they are de same,one sittin at hand of the other?, why are you separating both deity without knowing,  sorry de same deity when u pray and u say say through christ our lord, since they are united and become one God,you should simply end your pray without saying through christ our lord,  Pls explain this to me like 8yrs old child. X

Ijele.Paul said in philipians2 dat christ is by nature God.What do u understand by nature? By nature im a man,by nature i av eyes,likewise u&other pple.When by nature hes God,how do u still doubt? I agree with d fact dat christ his sitting at Gods right hand.But d bible says christ will judge d living&d dead.A high court judge&a supreme court judge are both justices.

.