Deicide:

There was no assumption the argument was based on what doctoralien based freewill on and not on what Freewill really mean not until the Hypocrite like i really knew him to be changed it wouldn't say i was surprised though


This are just Assumption from your head the First part. the second part is just out of hatred he ignores you and it pains you to the core you need to learn to put your emotions in check


Trash, stop whining

Deicide:

There was no assumption the argument was based on what doctoralien based freewill on and not on what Freewill really mean not until the Hypocrite like i really knew him to be changed it wouldn't say i was surprised though


This are just Assumption from your head the First part. the second part is just out of hatred he ignores you and it pains you to the core you need to learn to put your emotions in check


Trash, stop whining

butterflyl1on:


The assumption caused the argument. An already existing assumption of what freewill ought to be according to atheism is what made one disagree with the other.

Stop being silly!

DoctorAlien:
I see no difference between "freewill is the freedom to do what you want" and "The Vegas shooter was created by God with freewill i.e. he could do anything he wanted". Do you see any?

Who said that you don't have the choice to dodge the bullet?

Freewill is the freedom to do what you want. However, even though you have the freedom to do what you want, you will eventually do ONLY THE THINGS YOU CAN DO. If you cannot dodge the bullet, sorry then. You also can never become God or avoid death.

butterflyl1on:


This is the thing about freewill. He creates you then gives you options to freely choose from.

Option A: serve me with all your heart/mind/strenght and love humanity and get the just wages

Option B: Refuse to serve me and refuse to love humanity and get the just wages for that.

Knowing about his intention to go on a killing spree does not mean the ones shot at have also not been given the same Option A and Option B.

If they choose right or wrong the way they die would not matter. All that matters is the just reward. The boyscout motto says, BE PREPARED .

Death is unavoidable but ones state of preparedness at death is achievable. Just like you right now. You could step outside and get struck by lightening or run over but that wouldn't bother me a bit. I would rather bother about your state of preparedness when death does come based on either OPTION A or OPTION B.

OliviaPope:
An all knowing god definitely knew the killer would turn out to be a homicidal SOB, why did he create in him in the first place? Umm okay lets assume that was a mistake. an all knowing god definitely knew of his intention to go on a shooting spree, why didn't god strike him dead before he could? He's quite an expert at that .. Oh wait, perhaps god just let dozens of people die so one man would be saved? Lucky Bloke!

hopefulLandlord:

You didn't read my post well

The victims should chose to dodge and chose to be hit!

I'm almost certain none of the victims went " Oh! someone is using his freewill to distribute hot lead, Oh look! a bullet is moving towards me, let me do what I want which is to take the bullet in my torso"

you keep looking from one side alone

Deicide:

There was no assumption the argument was based on what doctoralien based freewill on and not on what Freewill really mean not until the Hypocrite like i really knew him to be changed it wouldn't say i was surprised though

DoctorAlien:

What prevented them from choosing to dodge the bullet?

butterflyl1on:


The assumption caused the argument. An already existing assumption of what freewill ought to be according to atheism is what made one disagree with the other.

Stop being silly!

Ironically DoctorAlien and I are not seated in the same room, neither are we in touch with each other but my explanation of freewill according to theism is exactly his own explanation as well.

hopefulLandlord:


BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE'S FREEWILL OVERRODE THEIRS!!!!!!

DoctorAlien:
The freewill God gave man is like this:

"Option A: you can do the 10 commandments.

Option B: you can ignore God, worship idols, blaspheme and insult God, break His Sabbath, treat your parents with disrespect, kill people, lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, rape, maim, etc.

You can choose option A or B. I won't coerce your choice. I won't force you to do A, when you want to do B, and vice versa."

If you're saying that God should remove "kill people" from option B because people don't want to get killed by other people against their will, then:

1. God should remove "ignore God, worship idols, blaspheme aND insult God, break the Sabbath" from the option B because He doesn't want to be ignored against His wish(especially as He is the Creator), nor does He want His glory taken away as the Creator against His wish.
2. God should remove "treat your parents with disrespect" from option B because no parent wants to be treated with disrespect by their children against his/her wish.
3. God should remove "lie, cheat, rape, steal and maim" from option B because nobody wants these things done to him or her against their wish.
4. God should remove "commit adultery" from option B because at least some people don't want their partners cheating on them against their wish.

By the time God finishes removing all the items in option B for whatever reason you can come up with, you'd be left with only option A. But having only option A means there's really no freewill.

cc hopefulLandlord

butterflyl1on:
Some people just love arguing mischievously.

DoctorAlien please spell this out to them.

FREEWILL IS AN INDIVIDUAL COMMODITY AND NOT A MASS COMMODITY.

IT TARGETS THE INDIVIDUAL AND WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO DO WITH YOUR INDIVIDUALISED FREEWILL IS YOURS TO EITHER ENJOY ITS REWARD OR LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

WE DO NOT HAVE MASS FREEWILL. WE HAVE INDIVIDUAL FREEWILL. THE WORD FREE DEPICTS FREEDOM. FREEDOM TO WILL.

THE MAN THE OP TALKS ABOUT WHO WAS FORMERLY AGNOSTIC BUT NOW A FIRM BELIEVER IN GOD ALSO EXERCISED HIS FREE WILL FOR GOOD. THOSE WHO WATCHED THE VIDEO IN THE OP ALSO EXERCISED THEIR FREEWILL TO WATCH OR NOT WATCH IT.

THE POSTER OF THE VIDEO DID NOT FORCE ANYONE TO WATCH IT OR NOT BUT SOME STILL CHOSE TO WATCH IT AND SOME DIDN'T.

WHATEVER WE DO IN THE NAME OF FREEWILL MUST AFFECT SOMETHING AND IN THE CASE OF THE SHOOTER IT AFFECTED LIVES.

WHAT GOD WANTS OUR FREEWILL TO DO IS TO AFFECT ONLY FOR GOOD BUT A LOT OF REBELLIOUS PEOPLE USE IT FOR EVIL AND PEOPLE LIKE ATHEISTS STILL COME BACK AND BLAME GOD. I WONDER HOW MANY GOOD ACTS FROM FREEWILL THEY HAVE GIVEN GOD CREDIT FOR.

segunojo866:
I give god credit for sending people to hell fire

butterflyl1on:


Does God exist?

hopefulLandlord:

you've been there before?

DoctorAlien:
.

hopefulLandlord:


and I say, again, this definition of yours came up long after the discussion has started; it reeks of dishonesty to change definitions in the middle of a discussion, its the same way you changed the definition of "Universe" the other day

Freewill is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

that is my definition and it aligns with the definition you gave when I first quoted you on this thread