Proudgorgeousga:


Mr Ebuka the universe having a beginning does not prove intelligent design or an intelligent designer that is good and all knowing. we are not arguing about whether the the universe has a beginning or not.
There is no evidence for god so I don't know for sure. that why I'm agnostic not because I don't know if the universe has a beginning or not.


This is not about winning or losing a debate

I have read all the arguments. about objective morality both on nairaland and beyond including yours it wasn't very convincing. I have no intention of wasting my time beating a dead horse.

but you can share your opinion here if you want.

https://www.nairaland.com/4113374/moral-dilemma-makes-atheism-unwise/1#61398836

debate morality with him?

he'll strawman you to boredom with "atheists killed millions", he'll drive around every point you're trying to make lol and if you're not letting him have his way he'll just leave you alone cuz even his strawman can easily catch fire if you point them out and stand firm

https://www.nairaland.com/3842952/simple-rebuttal-one-very-common/29#57804496 check that and see a discussion between him and Dalaman

Proudgorgeousga:


Mr Ebuka the universe having a beginning does not prove intelligent design or an intelligent designer

The universe having a beginning proves it has a creator .

that is good and all knowing. we are not arguing about whether the the universe has a beginning or not.

Stop complicating matters . God exists is one thing whether God is all good or all knowing is another topic .

There is no evidence for god so I don't know for sure. that why I'm agnostic not because I don't know if the universe has a beginning or not.

This is the second time I'm asking you . Is this world-wide consensus or what your imaginations reveal to you

This is not about winning or losing a debate

No one is saying that . You made a claim , engage me in a debate and prove it . Simple

I have read all the arguments. about objective morality both on nairaland and beyond including yours it wasn't very convincing. I have no intention of wasting my time beating a dead horse.

Empty excuse , empty claim

Open a thread and let's debate and stop making petty excuses .

Proudgorgeousga:

https://www.nairaland.com/4113374/moral-dilemma-makes-atheism-unwise/1#61398836

It is an established fact that owner of this post does not think for himself . I don't have time for unintelligent people please .

KingEbukasBlog:

The universe having a beginning proves it has a creator .

how?
I'm done with this.

Proudgorgeousga:


how?

Because something can't come from nothing or create itself

I'm done with this.

That's your business

butterflyl1on:


Nothing stops an atheist from believing in the existence of something else.the only thing he abhors is God or gods and their deification.

This is simple enough. Google would solve this puzzle easily for you in 2 clicks.

The belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is a "fairy story" for people afraid of death, Stephen Hawking has said.

In a dismissal that underlines his firm rejection of religious comforts, Britain's most eminent scientist said there was nothing beyond the moment when the brain flickers for the final time.
The person quoted above was presented as an authority.

KingEbukasBlog:


The universe having a beginning proves it has a creator .
.

Ergo, the creator must have a beginning so it must have a creator.

KingEbukasBlog:

Because something can't come from nothing or create itself

same old thing. But your imaginary creator came from nothing.

KingEbukasBlog:


The universe having a beginning proves it has a creator .




Stop complicating matters . God exists is one thing whether God is all good or all knowing is another topic .




This is the second time I'm asking you . Is this world-wide consensus or what your imaginations reveal to you



No one is saying that . You made a claim , engage me in a debate and prove it . Simple



Empty excuse , empty claim

Open a thread and let's debate and stop making petty excuses .



It is an established fact that owner of this post does not think for himself . I don't have time for unintelligent people please .

The universe having a beginning proves something began it. That something is THE CREATOR of the universe. How is this hard to understand?

An atheist can choose to call this beginner of the universe anything he desires. He can called it energy, a fog, a dog, a gypsy, an atom, etc as long as he does not call it God or deify it.

A beginning means a source is evident and an evident source means the universe is patterned be it orderly or disorderly depending on who is viewing it.

My brother you dey try for these deliberately deaf and blind people. I am sure if a scientist tells them this same thing In this same way they would believe it. They only disregard yours because it's coming from a theist.

Meanwhile check out this video which explains a beginning in 5 minutes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA

budaatum:

The belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is a "fairy story" for people afraid of death, Stephen Hawking has said.

In a dismissal that underlines his firm rejection of religious comforts, Britain's most eminent scientist said there was nothing beyond the moment when the brain flickers for the final time.
The person quoted above was presented as an authority.

How on earth is this relevant to my comment? Am I talking about heaven?

Na wa o

Proudgorgeousga:


same old thing. But your imaginary creator came from nothing.

Maybe yours but the creator is eternal - without a beginning .

KingEbukasBlog:


Maybe yours but the creator is eternal - without a beginning .

The word ETERNAL is something they pretend not to understand its meaning.

KingEbukasBlog:

Maybe yours but the creator is eternal - without a beginning .

evidence?? none.

butterflyl1on:


The universe having a beginning proves something began it. That something is THE CREATOR of the universe. How is this hard to understand?

Exactly ! When something begins to exist , then IT MUST HAVE A CAUSE , a creator . For them not to understand it , it shows they are not smart at all . Nothing more , nothing less . Arguing that the universe came from absolute nothingness uncaused is madness

An atheist can choose to call this beginner of the universe anything he desires. He can called it energy, a fog, a dog, a gypsy, an atom, etc as long as he does not call it God or deify it.

Thank you my brother ! An atheist can acknowledge the existence of the creator of the universe and choose not to deify it or call it 'God' - this acknowledgement does not stop him from being an atheist since atheism Simply rejects deification

A beginning means a source is evident and an evident source means the universe is patterned be it orderly or disorderly depending on who is viewing it.

This is another problem . Some atheists believe the universe is chaotic but they failed to realize that this perspective is subjective not objective

My brother you dey try for these deliberately deaf and blind people. I am sure if a scientist tells them this same thing In this same way they would believe it. They only disregard yours because it's coming from a theist.

Meanwhile check out this video which explains a beginning in 5 minutes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA

Thanks for sharing bro . He nailed it , even a dummy can understand the message . But what is worse than a dummy ? Nairaland atheists

Proudgorgeousga:


evidence?? none.

Butterflyl1on , she asked for evidence after an established fact that something can't create itself or come from nothing .

They've been programmed to request for evidence but are not intelligent to understand and accept one when they see it

butterflyl1on:


The word ETERNAL is something they pretend not to understand its meaning.

Them full here like Proudgorgeousga who'd ask for evidence for something eternal when she(he) has been told that something can't come from nothing

Proudgorgeousga:


evidence?? none.

they said its eternal, therefore its eternal

challenge that and they'll repeat its eternal, they'll keep repeating the same thing aka proof by assertion

KingEbukasBlog:


Exactly ! When something begins to exist , then IT MUST HAVE A CAUSE , a creator . For them not to understand it , it shows they are not smart at all . Nothing more , nothing less . Arguing that the universe came from absolute nothingness uncaused is madness



Thank you my brother ! An atheist can acknowledge the existence of the creator of the universe and choose not to deify it or call it 'God' - this acknowledgement does not stop him from being an atheist since atheism Simply rejects deification



This is another problem . Some atheists believe the universe is chaotic but they failed to realize that this perspective is subjective not objective



Thanks for sharing bro . He nailed it , even a dummy can understand the message . But what is worse than a dummy ? Nairaland atheists

KingEbukasBlog:


Butterflyl1on , she asked for evidence after an established fact that something can't create itself or come from nothing .

They've been programmed to request for evidence but are not intelligent to understand and accept one when they see it

it's an inherent confusion they cannot fight

hopefulLandlord:


they said its eternal, therefore its eternal

challenge that and they'll repeat its eternal, they'll keep repeating the same thing aka proof by assertion

The video they posted says the universe is eternal. The universe must be god then.

butterflyl1on:


it's an inherent confusion they cannot fight

This is why I love the Cosmological Argument , one of the sweetest arguments our logical minds gave us

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause

2. The universe begins to exist

3. Therefore , the universe has a cause

From Premise 1 , we can see that there are things which have no beginning and thus uncaused or without a cause - the logical coherence of this statement is so titillating

Butterflyl1on , we have atheists who have watched the video that presented evidence for a finite universe -one with a beginning- with a logical conclusion that its cause predates it . And they claim it means the universe is eternal . Its a new day and I'm certain that Ive seen the stupidest thing already

budaatum:

The video they posted says the universe is eternal. The universe must be god then.

are you naïve enough to think they watch the videos they post?

KingEbukasBlog:




This is why I love the Cosmological Argument , one of the sweetest arguments our logical minds gave us

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause

2. The universe begins to exist

3. Therefore , the universe has a cause

From Premise 1 , we can see that there are things which have no beginning and thus uncaused or without a cause - the logical coherence of this statement is so titillating

the key word is BEGINS but dumb minds would easily miss the usage of that word.

budaatum:

The video they posted says the universe is eternal. The universe must be god then.

Chai Chai Chai

The video DOES NOT say the universe is eternal. Did you stop at the 1 minute mark?

That statement was made in reference to an eternal universe hypothesis which he said was from 60 to 70 years ago but has been disproved.

You must have closed your ears when watching the video

KingEbukasBlog:
Butterflyl1on , we have atheists who have watched the video that presented evidence for a finite universe -one with a beginning- with a logical conclusion that its cause predates it . And they claim it means the universe is eternal . Its a new day and I'm certain that Ive seen the stupidest thing already

If they can deny what is before them in black and white then what can they not deny?

butterflyl1on:


the key word is BEGINS but dumb minds would easily miss the usage of that word.

I doubt they have minds . If you ask me , I suggest we should just go with 'dumb' .

hopefulLandlord:


are you naïve enough to think they watch the videos they post?

Watch the video and stop following an ignorant persons denial of black and white information from the video. Even Ebuka has given you a pictorial snippet from the video. Nowhere did the video suggest an eternal universe.

Regurgitator

hopefulLandlord:


are you naïve enough to think they watch the videos they post?

I must be. It does what they do, insert god at the beginning, but with fancy artwork. Its such a pity that they can't see how their religious mindset colours their arguments. There can't be a creation without a creator they say, and in the same statement claim god is eternal and uncreated. I can just about hear them claim that atheists accept the premise of creation to start with! Why they can't accept that 4.54 billion years for the age of the earth is not eternal enough, not to talk of the 13.772 billion years for the universe, is way beyond me. I guess when ones education is God is eternal, that's all there is.

Here's evidence for the age of god!

budaatum:

I must be. It does what they do, insert god at the beginning, but with fancy artwork. Its such a pity that they can't see how their religious mindset colours their arguments. There can't be a creation without a creator they say, and in the same statement claim god is eternal and uncreated. I can just about hear them claim that atheists accept the premise of creation to start with! Why they can't accept that 4.54 billion years for the age of the earth is not eternal enough, not to talk of the 13.772 billion years for the universe, is way beyond me. I guess when ones education is God is eternal, that's all there is.

Here's evidence for the age of god!

Watch the video truthfully and stop declaring what isn't in it .

By the way even if the earth were to be 50 trillion years old that does not in any way hold a candle to what eternity is.

An eternal God is simply eternal and uncreated. What part of the word ETERNAL do you not understand?

butterflyl1on:


An eternal God is simply eternal and uncreated. What part of the word ETERNAL do you not understand?

The video proves nothing! Its just another assertion of what you've been saying. The man may be a scientist, but he is also a theologian. "A satellite found god", how more ridiculous can he be. He jumps to the same conclusion you do without concrete evidence to prove your point. Eternal my dog!

What's sad is you really believe what you saying. You wouldn't notice how you deify your creator just by adding eternal to its description. There is nothing bigger or older than the universe so there's no other way to describe a creator of the universe except to deify it. If anything created the massive universe it is deified by its action and only a small minded fool would quibble over such a minute thing as to whether to call it a god or an intelligent designer if they understand what those words mean. But you can't see that. You want to reduce the atheist to what you can comfortably attack so you claim they believe in a creator of the universe despite numerous threads on here where numerous atheist say they believe otherwise. And if they don't fit into your narrow definition, you feel you can prove your point by asserting the same old trash and insulting those who do not agree with you.

I'm done. Thanks for your time.

KingEbukasBlog:


Apparently , you missed the point . Look up to see why

Nice try

budaatum:

The video proves nothing! Its just another assertion of what you've been saying. The man may be a scientist, but he is also a theologian. "A satellite found god", how more ridiculous can he be. He jumps to the same conclusion you do without concrete evidence to prove your point. Eternal my dog!

What's sad is you really believe what you saying. You wouldn't notice how you deify your creator just by adding eternal to its description. There is nothing bigger or older than the universe so there's no other way to describe a creator of the universe except to deify it. If anything created the massive universe it is deified by its action and only a small minded fool would quibble over such a minute thing as to whether to call it a god or an intelligent designer if they understand what those words mean. But you can't see that. You want to reduce the atheist to what you can comfortably attack so you claim they believe in a creator of the universe despite numerous threads on here where numerous atheist say they believe otherwise. And if they don't fit into your narrow definition, you feel you can prove your point by asserting the same old trash and insulting those who do not agree with you.

I'm done. Thanks for your time.

are you this daft? Who said atheists believe in an intelligent design? Why are you pulling up nonsense from your magicians hat?

I have told you to that atheists can believe in anything they choose except the deification of God or gods. I asked you to research google you refused to let me help you. Read below

https://www.thoughtco.com/atheism-incompatible-with-belief-in-souls-spirits-250441


http://asktheatheist.rationalresponders.com/question/do_atheists_believe_in_ghosts_or_spirits

http://juiceonline.com/im-an-atheist-but-i-believe-in-ghosts/


https://www.atheistrev.com/2010/05/atheists-who-believe-in-ghosts.html?m=1


https://www.reddit.com/r/answers/comments/518jnk/do_atheists_that_believe_in_ghosts_actually_exist/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/307443-can-an-atheist-believe-in-ghosts/

There are so many more all over the Internet. You can keep deceiving yourself but those who k ow, know.

Regarding the video, he never said explicitly that a satellite found God, he used the scientific explanations to match what Genesis said about the beginning which science first denied when they said the universe was eternal and recently just debunked that and agreed that the universe does have a beginning which makes the Bible in Genesis absolutely right.

He then talked about the characteristics of this beginning which also matches the characteristics declared about God in the bible per creator to his creation. You really need to stop lying to yourself